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WOW !!!! - 10/6/2005 5:51:58 PM   
33Vyper


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Not since I first came across your site and saw PacWar and the then (back in 2001) 'soon to be released' WITP lol have I been this pumped.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE redo these two and make them work. I loved the concept ..... it was just a bit clunky and the graphics were a bit weak.

Matrix
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RE: WOW !!!! - 10/6/2005 7:32:48 PM   
SurrenderMonkey

 

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What he said!

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RE: WOW !!!! - 10/6/2005 7:46:51 PM   
denisonh


Posts: 2186
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Looking forward to seeing BOTR getting revisited.

Look forward to seeing this project develop.

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Now I'm drooling... - 10/7/2005 12:53:59 AM   
Greyshaft


Posts: 2234
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Less than 12 hours ago I was playing turn 15 as the British in the 184 turn 1941 scenario of BOB and thinking that this is one computer game that has held my interest longer (year wise) than any other game that I have played.

OK, now I'm camping on two threads... WIF and BOB/BTR

(You do realise that my wife will kill you for this )

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RE: Now I'm drooling... - 10/7/2005 1:01:03 AM   
HMSWarspite

 

Posts: 664
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You should worry - I am in turn 188 of an Allied BTR, and turn 50something of an Axis game (both PBEM). Lots of minor issues that I would love to have fixed/improved. Likewise BoB which I always felt was a little too flawes to be that much fun.

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Post #: 5
RE: Now I'm drooling... - 10/7/2005 1:02:28 AM   
jrcar

 

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From: Seymour, Australia
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BASTARDS!

Cheers

Rob

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RE: Now I'm drooling... - 10/7/2005 1:16:33 AM   
Richrd

 

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Somewhere there is a website that is the epitome of BTR scenarios and OOB's. I haven't seen it in some time. Please look up this site.

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RE: Now I'm drooling... - 10/7/2005 1:19:54 AM   
David Heath


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I am looking for that site as well. Anyone finds it let me know.

David

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RE: Now I'm drooling... - 10/7/2005 1:23:43 AM   
Richrd

 

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Hard Sarge knows.

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RE: Now I'm drooling... - 10/7/2005 1:25:34 AM   
Richrd

 

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By the way, Mr. Heath, maybe it's not worth a great deal of money, but for people like me, this news elevates you to the status of visionary.

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Richrd

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Post #: 10
RE: Now I'm drooling... - 10/7/2005 4:11:37 AM   
DarkLight

 

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YES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Post #: 11
RE: Now I'm drooling... - 10/7/2005 5:16:27 AM   
Greyshaft


Posts: 2234
Joined: 10/27/2003
From: Sydney, Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HMSWarspite

You should worry - I am in turn 188 of an Allied BTR, and turn 50something of an Axis game (both PBEM). Lots of minor issues that I would love to have fixed/improved. Likewise BoB which I always felt was a little too flawes to be that much fun.

Wish I had both to do the comparison but I've never been able to find BTR in Australia


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Post #: 12
RE: Now I'm drooling... - 10/7/2005 7:04:57 AM   
pompack


Posts: 2519
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From: University Park, Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Heath

I am looking for that site as well. Anyone finds it let me know.

David




Do you mean JC's Site?

http://p081.ezboard.com/fbtrbombingthereichfrm9

(sorry about the format, but I have forgotten how to paste links in this forum )

EDIT: Well that worked so I guess I do remember how to do it


< Message edited by pompack -- 10/7/2005 7:05:20 AM >

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Post #: 13
RE: Now I'm drooling... - 10/7/2005 9:07:25 AM   
Charles_22


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This is good news for me, but as far as the prior BTR fixer guy getting involved I'm not so sure. The 1.5 fix brought the death-ray which I've argued about to a small extent on this forum with Hard_Sarge and him (some Jeane-Claude or something). His fix got rid of one problem that was disgusting (planes not catching up to Allied planes [staying on cruise speeds]), but that same patch, though it may not have been due to that particular fix, caused another. The whole thing left quite a bitter taste in my mouth, particularly since GG was pretty much absent from it pretty quickly and though I could recreate it, it didn't seem to bother enough people for anyone to try to fix it (as though a lot of people were complaing about JG26 being on the wrong airfield, etc.). Maybe with some help JC can figure out the death-ray solution (assuming anyone but me cares). I guess the main thing would be to wait to see once this is redone whether the bane of my BTR play for so many years will had been removed.

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Post #: 14
RE: Now I'm drooling... - 10/7/2005 6:27:44 PM   
Speedy

 

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Hi Charles,

I like HS was (and still am) involved a fair bit on the BTR Forum. The changes JCL has made through various versions have dramtically improved the game IMHO. Sure there are some cons too but in my mind a hell of a lot more pros than cons. The amount of time, work and research spent by all concerned was immense.

Nonetheless i'm looking forward to the future of these former Talonsoft games.

Regards,

Steven

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Post #: 15
RE: Now I'm drooling... - 10/7/2005 6:36:42 PM   
pompack


Posts: 2519
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From: University Park, Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Charles_22

This is good news for me, but as far as the prior BTR fixer guy getting involved I'm not so sure. The 1.5 fix brought the death-ray which I've argued about to a small extent on this forum with Hard_Sarge and him (some Jeane-Claude or something).


Charles:

Jean Claude Larusso is the person. He is ofter referred to as JCL by those who know him and JC by those who just admire him enormously .

Seriously, he has done an incredible amount of work on the OOB and has continued to host the patches (Both Talonsoft and other) that make the game playable for those who are working from the 1.0 original disk.

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Post #: 16
RE: Now I'm drooling... - 10/7/2005 8:24:58 PM   
Speedy

 

Posts: 14372
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Hi Pompack,

Yes I do repsect a lot of what JCL has done. Shame he is AWOL nowadays. If I was to list the enhancements and OB/OA corrections/additions he has made it would list upto 10-20 pages of A4+. As mentioned some of it has been a con but a lot has improved the game immensely.

Happy to have it in Matrix's safe hands though

Steven

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Post #: 17
RE: Now I'm drooling... - 10/7/2005 9:20:09 PM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25297
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From: Alien spacecraft
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Have only played the JCL version of BTR...currently with Speedy. Figured after owning the title for several years without ever having the kahonnas to try to tackle the grand campaign, it was about time.

Not doing too bad.....except for that minor incident with those P47 FG's........

Would like to see the games facelifted. Ideas abound...

(in reply to Speedy)
Post #: 18
RE: WOW !!!! - 10/7/2005 9:46:22 PM   
Misty

 

Posts: 58
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From: Freiburg, Germany
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I own BtR since it came out but quit playing a few years ago. I will buy the new one. I would prefer a campaign over Germany and western Europe only, without southern Europe and Africa.
Higher resolution would be fine. Better map gfx and counters for units.

(in reply to 33Vyper)
Post #: 19
RE: WOW !!!! - 10/7/2005 11:24:16 PM   
thinz2

 

Posts: 55
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From: Saskatchewan, Canada
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The link I have for JCL's site is http://pub103.ezboard.com/bbtrbombingthereich

There were several bugs in that game that pretty much ruined it for me. First, Allied fighters on sweeps could not be prevented from repeatedly strafing railyards they flew over, regardless of the altitude one set for them. They would then be chewed up by flak. Second, there was something players called (I think) the "Dover bug" whereby Allied fighters in the Italian theatre would fly off to the North West after arriving at their target points.

Having siad that, the game was fascinating and I would love to play it again with the bugs removed.

(in reply to Misty)
Post #: 20
RE: WOW !!!! - 10/8/2005 2:14:11 AM   
HMSWarspite

 

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You have to play with a degree of restraint - don't target Dover bug aircraft (cant stop the flak though), don't use too many NF on airfield patrol (annoyingly effective), don't target stragglers directly (allow AI to find them) etc. But still an interesting struggle. I am enjoying my games!

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Post #: 21
RE: WOW !!!! - 10/8/2005 3:06:28 AM   
FreeBird


Posts: 15
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From: Albuquerque, NM
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I am in Jan 44 of the '43 BTR campaign as the Allies. I love both of these monster games and would be playing them, warts and all, even if Matrix hadn't inked a deal. Since there is a deal then there is hope that some of these things can be addressed.

One feature that I would really like to see added is the ability to save mission plans so that they can be called up later. There is almost nothing more frustrating than taking the time to set up a major raid and having it cancelled on account of weather. Knowing that you will have to go repeat the entire process from scratch the next day, hoping that the weather will turn in your favor.

Regards..





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Post #: 22
RE: WOW !!!! - 10/8/2005 8:28:11 AM   
Charles_22


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I spoke earlier of a death-ray, but I misspoke. It was actually coined a freeze-ray. Although I did not narrow down all the particulars, like whether it happened with all fighter types or not, what the deal was, was if you were playing Gerry, an FG coming from England (don't think I ever saw freeze rays when the raids came from the south), and it looked like I had targeted your FG airfield, you might send an FG off that field to intercept it. Without fail, if they graphically collide head-on, they will freeze there, doing absolutely nothing; looking VERY amateurish. When one of the FG's runs out of fuel it will head back to it's base (usually the Germans). This will "usually" result in the Allied FG getting a potshot at the German FG without retaliation, then the Allied FG will head back home.

If the cheapness of the graphical part of this doesn't drive you up the wall, and it did me, then the ramifications of what happened should. For instance, though having longer ranged fighters might change things, as I only tried it from the long campaign beginnings, the German player, if this always had the same result, could stop an airfield raid of fighters, every single time with the "smallest" number of aircraft his FG could send up. Unfortunately if the GE player wanted to send what would be a fair amount up against the raid, he would then get the short end of the stick as the Allied FG would get stopped, but would get a potshot at the GE FG.

Naturally, if the Allied a/c were a Mustang and the GE FG were Komets, then the Mustang may not be turned back after frozen and then getting a potshot on the Komets, but then proceed on to the airfield, but I wasn't interested enough in trying that sort of thing out considering how I could so easily have the freeze ray occur virtually at whim in the early going ,therefore ruining the game for me. So you say: Well why attack them head-on then? Very simple, because though you might like to at least have some sort of angle, at least in the early going it's almost impossible to intercept airfield raids if you're hoping to intercept them in any other manner. There's just not enough GE fighters to put up opposition at all times. Needless to say the situation is grossly exasterbated if you let them hit the airfields. In any case, it's a bug.

I guess it wasn't as common as the bit about the FW190's not getting up to full speed in pursuit (thereby not being able to intercept virtually anything but bombers), which was fixed, but once that was fixed the freeze ray appeared. Maybe they're not related, but I believe the removal of the one bug and the introduction of the other were both on 1.5.

The only thing I don't recall, and I'm sure I would have tried both, those few years ago, is whether it occurred for both direct interceptions, or also for patrols of the airfield that had then changed to an intercept.

As things currently are on my end, should this just be too difficult for someone else to recreate, I have the original game, but have the patches only up to 1.3 (if in fact I hadn't deleted them in disgust by now). I have an XP so I lost my old patches up to 1.6. I can get the 1.5 pretty easily I think, but of course I wasn't interested since that version I knew was unplayable (a lot of websites seem to have it). Getting 1.4 is impossible when relying on game websites alone. Just thought I would mention that.

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RE: WOW !!!! - 10/8/2005 1:50:35 PM   
Hard Sarge


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Speedy
I still there and here,

C-22
well, I did a lot of testing on that, did a lot of talking to JC about it, as the Allies I do not see it, will go in shortly and try a head to head and see if I can make it happen still, but to be honest, I never did see too much feedback from the GE players, the Dover and Recon were bigger issues to most players

most of the Dover has been fixed, Recon and FBs have been touched up (FB were real strange, make them so they could fight, MB couldn't hit anything, make them so the wouldn't fight and the MB could hit, but the FB got slaughtered, I really fought the idea of putting a Tail gun into a Typoon, so we came up with something a little different, it works, but it is not real)

give the newer patches and OOBs a try (I will look into the Freeseray) and see if it feels any better

BUT
overall, this could be a dream come true
if Matrixs can rework the games (Talonsoft had a good number of decent games, I own almost every one on the list) we will be sitting Wargamers Heaven

HARD_Sarge


lets make a new post so we can talk and not take away from the good news

< Message edited by Hard Sarge -- 10/8/2005 2:04:24 PM >


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RE: WOW !!!! - 10/8/2005 2:22:31 PM   
Charles_22


Posts: 3993
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From: Dallas, Texas, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

Speedy
I still there and here,

C-22
well, I did a lot of testing on that, did a lot of talking to JC about it, as the Allies I do not see it, will go in shortly and try a head to head and see if I can make it happen still, but to be honest, I never did see too much feedback from the GE players, the Dover and Recon were bigger issues to most players

most of the Dover has been fixed, Recon and FBs have been touched up (FB were real strange, make them so they could fight, MB couldn't hit anything, make them so the wouldn't fight and the MB could hit, but the FB got slaughtered, I really fought the idea of putting a Tail gun into a Typoon, so we came up with something a little different, it works, but it is not real)

give the newer patches and OOBs a try (I will look into the Freeseray) and see if it feels any better

BUT
overall, this could be a dream come true
if Matrixs can rework the games (Talonsoft had a good number of decent games, I own almost every one on the list) we will be sitting Wargamers Heaven

HARD_Sarge



Well, good to see y'all gave it more of an effort (freeze-ray) anyway. I don't expect that every bug gets fixed especially by somebody doing so as the unoriginal author, and considering that the fix that likely caused it had fixed such an awful problem, it would be pretty stymying to fix the freeze only to see the lack of catching up to fighters reemerge.

I've been so out-of-the-loop with this game, or JC's forum, that I clicked on the forum link somebody provided and somehow got through all the nonsense and somehow even recalled my logonid and password; and it worked no less. Just did it out of curiousity. Of course I had no use for the forum anyway until the fix was made and since for lack of popularity it seemed nobody wanted anything more to do with it than wait for a infamous enough uprising I decided I would pass.

Yeah it's funny you talk about other bugs, but mine was so devastating to me that I couldn't get deep enough into the game to find anymore setbacks. I usually pretty tolerant with bugs, as I can find some way around them (When I had USAAF for example, my planes on patrol, on occasion, would attack themselves [an AppleIIE back then] and I discovered a method to greatly minimize that). But this, but this, was just too devastating. It makes defense of any of the more coastal airfields impossible, even when you know where they're going (unless you like to stop an entire raid with one plane). I was always playing the AI BTW. Never did I try to recreate it HTH.

Back in the day HS, I could recreate this bug at will (and probably could here today, only, as I said, I don't have the sufficient patches to get it to the point where it appears), and JC just told me he didn't have enough gripes about it to waste his time on it (which you just basically did as well). I suppose if the bugs you spoke about, or mine, were bad enough to make at least half the people give up playing it till it was fixed, then everybody lost out. It would be pretty futile to have freeze-ray fixed, if I found I just couldn't deal with those other bugs, but then I didn't have a chance to see hwo revolted I would get at them. I said it all along, the lack of people playing the Germans was driving preferring other things to the ignoring of freeze-ray, and seems I was at least half right. Even many of the German players probably didn't think of abandoning all of France and defending the German coastal airfields, as I did, adding further to the lack of concern for fixing it. Oh well. Hopefully GG has the right stuff.

(in reply to Hard Sarge)
Post #: 25
RE: WOW !!!! - 10/8/2005 2:28:39 PM   
Hard Sarge


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From: garfield hts ohio usa
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Go to post C-22 and we can talk more

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Post #: 26
BOB or just BTR - 10/8/2005 4:11:19 PM   
Greyshaft


Posts: 2234
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From: Sydney, Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thinz2

The link I have for JCL's site is http://pub103.ezboard.com/bbtrbombingthereich


Did that Forum also cover BOB or just BTR?


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/Greyshaft

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Post #: 27
RE: BOB or just BTR - 10/8/2005 4:22:53 PM   
swift


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Greyshaft:

we also discussed about BoB sometimes - in the last few month it is mainly otisabuser and me

Werner

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Post #: 28
RE: Now I'm drooling... - 10/9/2005 4:27:40 AM   
TaggedYa

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Charles_22

This is good news for me, but as far as the prior BTR fixer guy getting involved I'm not so sure. The 1.5 fix brought the death-ray which I've argued about to a small extent on this forum with Hard_Sarge and him (some Jeane-Claude or something). His fix got rid of one problem that was disgusting (planes not catching up to Allied planes [staying on cruise speeds]), but that same patch, though it may not have been due to that particular fix, caused another. The whole thing left quite a bitter taste in my mouth, particularly since GG was pretty much absent from it pretty quickly and though I could recreate it, it didn't seem to bother enough people for anyone to try to fix it (as though a lot of people were complaing about JG26 being on the wrong airfield, etc.). Maybe with some help JC can figure out the death-ray solution (assuming anyone but me cares). I guess the main thing would be to wait to see once this is redone whether the bane of my BTR play for so many years will had been removed.


First; I think what you are referring to is the freeze ray. Specifically, when an intercept is made from the same or higher altitude in the forward 30 degrees of the target unit then all aircraft freeze in place till they run out of fuel. Hard Sarge also seems to believe this is what you mean.

If so; this is a hard coded problem that has been there from the start. JC did not cause it. The last OB made it slightly (very slightly in my opinion) worse.

Next; even if JC had broken half a dozen things with his work it would be a crime not to take advantage of the vast contribution he has made if in fact he is willing to have his work included. This is a moot point at the moment however as he seems to currently be incognito.

As to the bitter taste; I will have to second that one. The general reaction to my comments on the problem were very much of the “who cares” and “it’s not a bug its supposed to be that way” and “it represents a fur ball”. I of coarse have never heard of an hour long aerial fight where no damage occurred but then who am I, certainly not an expert. I wouldn’t know JG26 was on the wrong field and worse couldn’t care less now that I know it.


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The Vociferously Verbose

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Post #: 29
RE: Now I'm drooling... - 10/9/2005 4:41:41 AM   
Richrd

 

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The freeze thing didn't bother me so much. If you got another German group into the fight before the first group withdrew then the second group would cover the withdrawal of the first group. Sooner or later the spitfires would also have to withdraw and if you managed to insert a German group just before that point the spits would be torn to pieces. Hello to all the guys from JC's forum. Did anyone invite Harley?

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Post #: 30
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