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Franco's Alliance and Strait Deal V1.4

 
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Franco's Alliance and Strait Deal V1.4 - 8/5/2005 8:10:41 AM   
Lebatron


Posts: 2142
Joined: 5/30/2005
From: Upper Michigan
Status: offline
Hi guys, Please take a look at my mod and let me know what you think.
Get it here http://www.savefile.com/files/7711804


Note v2.3 is now out. Look for this one instead


Here's a copy of the readme.
Franco's alliance and Strait Deal V1.4 up to patch 1.040 compatible.
By Jesse LeBreton "Lebatron"
jesse_lebreton@yahoo.com

New to V1.4
1. Made Afghanistan a 2MP border that connects with Eastern Kazakhstan. Done to address an unfreeze exploit. Thanks to JanSorensen for pointing out the problem and suggesting the 2MP border. I made a new graphic file to support this change. Also modified to include a 2MP border at Western Himalayas and Western Kazakhstan as Joel Billings requested.
2. Caucasus now has a 2MP border facing the Black sea. As Joel Billings requested. The range is now 3 from Romania.
3. Corrected a map error. Movement from sea zone 191 to 353 is 2MP, but map shows it as 1MP. Installing my files will place the correct border there.
4. Removed garrison requirement at East Prussia and increased Western Poland・s by one to balance out. Prevents another unfreeze exploit.
5. Moved 1 infantry from Czechoslovakia to Western Poland to meet the new garrison requirement.
6. Moved a resource in China. The capital now has 2.
7. Added 1 flak and 1 artillery to Bonin Islands.
End of new Changes.


INTRODUCTION:
My mod now contains two campaigns. The original called Strait Deal which beefed up Spain, and now Franco・s alliance, which makes Spain a frozen ally of Germany. I have now combined the two readme files.
Strait Deal: The primary purpose of Strait Deal is to address these issues. The Spanish Gambit being to easy, the Japanese attack on Russia being to optimal, and the auto victory being to low. To achieve that, Spain has been beefed up, China has been made a little richer in resources to tempt the Japs, and the Axis auto victory has been raised to 75. There are secondary issues which I have addressed too. I will cover those below.
Franco・s Alliance: I developed Franco・s Alliance to allow the game to follow a more historic path. In this campaign Spain has been made a frozen ally of Germany. This stops the gamey march through Spain to close off the Med. But in other regards it has the same improvements that been added to Strait Deal.

INSTALLING:
There are 9 files with this mod that need to be placed in the \dat subfolder of WAW. Four of which are specific to each campaign. The scenario.txt file is common to both. In this way, at the startup screen you will see both campaigns listed.
Here are the files:
baseline_fa.txt
frozen_fa.txt
regions_fa.txt
scendat_fa.txt
baseline_sd.txt
frozen_sd.txt
regions_sd.txt
scendat_sd.txt
scenario.txt
Don't worry, they won't overwrite any originals except the scenario.txt one. You may want to make a backup of that one by renaming the original to "original_scenario.txt"

There are now 6 new files for the graphics I have done. I have included the originals too, so don・t worry about overwriting the originals. Take all 12 tga files and place them into your \dat\art\map subfolder of WAW. That・s all there is to it.

WHATS CHANGED:
Here is the list of changes I made to the original game. Some ideas are borrowed from others. So I give credit when it・s due. I have done some consolidating to the readme. Between the two campaigns only the first item is different.

What・s unique to Franco・s Alliance:
1: Spain gains 1 artillery and is now a frozen ally of Germany, much like Finland. She will unfreeze IF Gibraltar, England, or Moscow falls. If the WA・s attack Portugal, or any of Spain・s territories that will make her unfreeze also. Reason: In this campaign, I wanted to give players the option to play a more historical WWII. There is no longer a need to house rule it to protect Gibraltar. Spain will stay neutral until certain conditions are met, and they are hard to meet. Gibraltar will not be given up without a hard fight, since in addition to the normal drawbacks to losing it, the Spanish join the Axis. As far as Moscow goes, now I think the Germans have a little more incentive to push for it rather than looking elsewhere in Russia. I have also made the Canary Islands true neutral just like the Azores, but for different reasons. These Islands were causing an interdiction point when they were made into a German ally. That had to change. But I could do nothing about the few extra interdiction points the WA・s get from Spain when they pass through Gibraltar. To solve this, just duck into the Port of Gibraltar and back out, and you・ll avoid those extra interdiction points.

What・s unique to Strait Deal:
1: Spain gains 3 infantry, 2 artillery, and population increased to 4. Reason: to no longer make it a no-brainer to take Spain. It・s now a harder option to win with. Keep in mind, this mod is not about removing the Spanish Gambit, it・s about finding the right balance. It・s still possible to take in summer 1940(turn 2), but it isn't going to be easy, and sometimes fails. Pretend the mountains and the WA・s are aiding Spain in their defense, then the extra forces are believable. It may seem gamey to some, but it does what is needed to stop the even more gamey summer 1940 invasion of Spain nearly every game. The conquest of Spain, if it・s even attempted at all, will likely be delayed a turn or two.

What・s common to both:
2: Portugal gains 3 infantry, 1 artillery, 1 flak, and population increased to 1. Reason: so the WA's don't get a free pass to the mainland if Gibraltar has fallen. Since Portugal can now defend itself against a small invasion, perhaps the allied player will leave Spain and Portugal alone if Germany has done the same. Now that Portugal has troops, other issues needed to be addressed. The population was increased to 1 because it just makes sense. I also removed the Portuguese nationality from the Azores. They are now true neutral territory. This was done so Germany does not actually gain Portugal itself if the Azores are taken by the WA's. If the allies continue their aggression and decide landing at Portugal is their best move, then they will have to pay 10 supply again. Also those territories in lower Africa stay Portuguese if only the Azores are taken. This is better than everything Portuguese turning German just because the allies borrow the Azores for an air base. Historically the allies got to use them islands when some political pressure or bribery was used. That's the 10 supply you pay to use the Azores. There's no need for Portugal to turn Axis because of that.

3: Gibraltar and Malta no longer have rough terrain, and Gibraltar gains rail. Reason: If Germany goes all out to conquer Gibraltar, then they should be able to strategically redeploy to and from Gibraltar as needed. Since the Spanish Gambit is either harder or not available depending on the campaign played, the sea invasion should be made a little easier. That's why I removed the rough terrain. Same reasoning for Malta. The WA can still hold them if they are determined to. Oleg's idea. Thanks.

4: Norway now has 2 resources. Removed 1 from Sweden. Reason: Done to encourage German invasion of Norway and perhaps deter taking Sweden a little. Sveint's idea. Thanks.

5: Added 1 tactical air in West Germany and removed 1 fighter in Finland. Reason: Germany just needs more Stukas. And Finland just didn't have that much airpower. Trade one for the other. Balance not changed much. Oleg's idea. Thanks.

6: Finland unfreezes when Leningrad OR Kalinin are attacked. Reason: Taking Leningrad was an unreasonable requirement. The Finns now join when the Germans show some muscle up north.

7: Hungary gains a factory, 1 pop, and can now make militia. Reason: Hungary contributed. Germany may need a few extra militia down the road because things are going to be much hotter in the Mediterranean. Also, it・s just kind of neat to see all the flag slots on the production screen filled. Isn't it? Oleg's idea. Thanks.

8: China gains 3 resources. Most regions of China now have 1 resource. The capital now has two to make the victory sweeter. Reason: to find a balance that will make it a split decision for the Japanese, between a China/India campaign, or a Russian one. In this way more options are available to the Japanese Player. I didn・t make this change because I believe Japan shouldn・t attack Russia, because I know it was a historic possibility. What I want to do is make it so that it・s just one way to win, but not THE way to win. Perhaps in real life, attacking Russia would have been their best strategy. But do you want to see the same strategy play out every game because it・s the optimal way to win? No, I don・t think you would. To be fun, WAW needs many different ways to win, even if certain areas need to be made richer. Some realism needs to take a back seat to achieve this. So what I did was give China more resources to encourage Japan to look to China rather than invading Russia. This does not make China any harder to conquer, but will at least make it more worth while for Japan. The new resources also end the silly and gamey Jap avoidance of certain Chinese territories with no value.

9: Fixed a bug. Gulf of Mexico and Greater Antilles now connect.

10: Fixed another bug. I made two new files to show a double border between sea zone 191 and 353.

11: Fixed an exploit that I believe breaks the game IMHO. That being, the WA・s invasion of East Prussia to unfreeze the Soviets early. It・s unrealistic to think that just because the British take the fight a little more east and gain some German soil temporarily, that Stalin would break his pact with Hitler. I think at this early point in the war it would have been more likely to see the Soviets help the Germans. After all, Stalin would not wish to see the British liberate Poland. This attack would have further cemented German-Soviet relations. But in the game this exploit does the opposite. So what I have done is remove the garrison requirement from East Prussia and bumped Poland・s up by one. Also moved and infantry from Czech to Poland to satisfy the requirement. Now the British landing in Prussia will do nothing but get them killed.
The WA's are still free to take out the Denmark garrison, move into the Baltic, fight the German fleet, and land in Prussia. That option is still available, the question is, should it be checkmate? That move shouldn・t be that powerful. It should not be some magic key that unlocks the Soviets.
Once again, let・s revisit this what-if. But let・s call it by a more realistic name. Say :Operation Liberation Poland.; After all, would that not be the British objective if they established a bridgehead in Prussia? Let・s forget about the illogic of liberating Poland before France for a second. The allied liberation of Poland is underway. Do you think that Stalin would side with the allies and just hand back the half of Poland he just acquired. No way in Hell. At this early stage in the war, Stalin and Hitler were pseudo allies. This allied attempt to liberate Poland would have resulted in a partnership between Germany and Russia to throw out the allies, ending any future hope that the Russians would join the allies, unless Hitler betrayed them down the road.
In summary the destruction of the garrison at Prussia creates an event that is the total opposite of what would have happened and should be corrected.

12: Fixed another exploit that breaks the game IMHO. Once again, the British have found another exploit. Them bastards;) This one unfreezes the US early. The designers have put an impassable wall around the Pacific Rim for a reason. To keep Japan in, and Britain out, until the Japs decide to make war. But the British have a way in! If they capture Afghanistan and place a bomber there, they may have the range to bomb the Japs. For instance, let・s say the Japs just took the Chinese capital. If the British have a bomber in Afghanistan with range 5(not hard to get), they can hit the Japs and instantly unfreeze the US. Then the US can go on a rampage around the Pacific totally hitting the Japs off guard. To have any hope of balance, Japan needs to have the surprise attack. Instead with this exploit, it・s the US who gets it. That・s not cool.
So what I did to deter the WA・s player from using this exploit is made the border between Afghanistan and Eastern Kazakhstan 2MP. It reduces the range a British bomber can travel. Thus making it less likely the WA player would even occupy and place a bomber in Afghanistan. To do what I explained above, the British would need to research to range 6. Probably not worth it and by that time it probably won・t matter. I made three files that patch the map to show a 2MP border there. Install using the instructions above.
Thanks to JanSorensen for pointing out the problem and suggesting the 2MP border.

13. Caucasus now has a 2MP border facing the Black Sea. It will now require a range of 3 to reach it from Romania. Reason: to reduce the amount of airpower Germany can bring to bear. Players have demonstrated that it・s possible to capture Caucasus with a Paradrop. This change now makes that much harder. I made a file that places a double border along the Caucasus coast. Joel Billings requested this one. Thanks big guy

14. I added 1 flak and 1 artillery to the Bonin Islands. Reason: since they are on the front line of defense I thought it odd they should not be garrisoned as well as the others. So I gave them the same setup as the other strategically important Islands.

15: Scenario.txt file changed to add both my mods. Plus, removed the tutorials to clean up the start page. I don't really think people who are advanced enough to try a mod really need their tutorials anymore. I also put the code for Raw Deal and the 1939 mod in there so you can use those mods too, if you like. Just remove the "//" in front of the code for those mods if you get them.

EXTRAS:
A: If you'd like to have zoom levels that go out, rather than in, put this code into your art.txt file. Place next to original code that is located 70% down the list. Put // in front of all original code to bleep it out.

// zooms for the game
MAP_ZOOM,4800,3000,2000

// chip scaling by zoom
CHIP_SCALE,3000,1700,1500

// Y ofsets by zoom
ICON_Y_OFFSET,25,25,25

You could also use 4000 in place of 4800. That・s the furthest out you can set it and still have all the onscreen info.
At 4800 the icon offset was originally at 35. But I think 25 works better because it places the ships closer together. Also air sits a little closer to land units. I think you'll like the tighter look better. Try both 25 and 35 to see for yourself.

B: If you are tired of hitting escape 3 times to get to the game, go into the video folder and look for the 3 intro videos. Rename these, and they will no longer harass you. Example: XXX2by3intro.wmv


< Message edited by Lebatron -- 2/19/2006 9:01:21 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: Strait Deal mod, with focus on Spain - 8/6/2005 2:21:13 AM   
Lebatron


Posts: 2142
Joined: 5/30/2005
From: Upper Michigan
Status: offline
I have bumped the auto victory up to 75. And I replaced the text above with version 1.1

< Message edited by Lebatron -- 8/6/2005 5:21:38 PM >

(in reply to Lebatron)
Post #: 2
RE: Strait Deal mod, with focus on Spain - 8/6/2005 8:13:33 PM   
RocketMan


Posts: 679
Joined: 7/19/2004
From: South Carolina, USA
Status: offline
Lebatron,

I have always had a problem with how easy it is to take Spain. I will give your Mod a try and see if it helps.

(in reply to Lebatron)
Post #: 3
RE: Strait Deal mod, with focus on Spain - 8/9/2005 7:26:38 PM   
toddtreadway

 

Posts: 375
Joined: 9/30/2003
Status: offline
I have a basic question about these mods.

Can I still play the regular, unmodified game, after I've installed the mod? Or do I need to uninstall/reinstall the game? Probably a basic question, but I've never played with them.

(in reply to RocketMan)
Post #: 4
RE: Strait Deal mod, with focus on Spain - 8/9/2005 7:34:39 PM   
Paul Vebber


Posts: 11474
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Portsmouth RI
Status: offline
In general you have to be careful to back up the original versions of the non-scenario specific files. Some of the files are additions (they usually have a number in them corresonding to the scenario date or a lable indiating the scenario - the '_sd' in this particular case).

Some are common to all scenarios - in this case the scenario.txt - but that just adds the text for the scenario so it appears in the scenario listing.

In this case you should be OK - but it never hurts to keep a backup of the .dat directory .txt files just to be safe.

(in reply to toddtreadway)
Post #: 5
RE: Strait Deal mod, with focus on Spain - 8/10/2005 7:49:56 PM   
Lebatron


Posts: 2142
Joined: 5/30/2005
From: Upper Michigan
Status: offline
Hello Guys,
I updated Strait Deal to version 1.2

After some consideration I have decided to adjust Finlands entry requirements. Finland will now unfreeze when Leningrad OR Kalinin is taken. At first, I had decided to change the default requirement of taking Leningrad because it was too stringent. But then, in hindsight, I had gone to far when I made the new requirement the Baltic States. In version 1.2 I have basically moved it back a few territories to Kalinin. Now the Germans will not be able to get tanks there on the first turn of war, but could paradrop if they really wanted to.

As an alternative, I have tried to create a group requirement to unfreeze Finland. That group would have been Baltic States, Velikiye, and Kalinin. This group OR Leningrad would have then unfroze Finland. But I could not get it to work. Anyone know a way?


(in reply to Paul Vebber)
Post #: 6
RE: Strait Deal mod, with focus on Spain - 8/10/2005 8:00:05 PM   
Oleg Mastruko


Posts: 4923
Joined: 10/21/2000
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: toddtreadway

I have a basic question about these mods.

Can I still play the regular, unmodified game, after I've installed the mod? Or do I need to uninstall/reinstall the game? Probably a basic question, but I've never played with them.


Don't know about this mod, but with my mod (Raw Deal 40) it is of course possible.

It is easy for a modder to make his mod just add couple TXT files to the game without tampering with the original files one little bit.

The ONLY original game file that has to be changed is scenario.txt - this simple TXT file contains information about available scenarios that is presented on the opening screen. Obviously, to make new scenario available to play, it has to be listed on the opening screen, to this file has to be modified. All other files are not modified, only added.

So, the ONE file you may want to backup before installing any mod is scenario.txt. Anything else should be documented by author of the mod (something many modders forget to do )

Oleg

(in reply to toddtreadway)
Post #: 7
RE: Strait Deal mod, with focus on Spain - 8/10/2005 8:30:37 PM   
Lebatron


Posts: 2142
Joined: 5/30/2005
From: Upper Michigan
Status: offline
Hi Oleg,
I did cover that under installation in the readme. And if you look down the list, you will see that I clearly explain how my scenario.txt file is completely compatible with your mod too I had the consideration to place code for your mod and Sveints in there. In this way, if someone downloads all 3 mods, they should use my scenario.txt file as its the only one that will work for all 3. Otherwise, as it stands now, if someone tried my mod first, then installed yours, they would no longer get the selection for Strait Deal. So in summary people should use my scenario.txt file if they dont mind having the tutorials removed from the list of campaigns.


< Message edited by Lebatron -- 8/24/2005 12:05:46 AM >

(in reply to Oleg Mastruko)
Post #: 8
RE: Strait Deal mod, with focus on Spain - 8/10/2005 8:39:46 PM   
Oleg Mastruko


Posts: 4923
Joined: 10/21/2000
Status: offline
I wasn't talking specifically about your mod when I said many modders forget to document what they do, obviously

O.

(in reply to Lebatron)
Post #: 9
RE: Strait Deal mod, with focus on Spain - 8/10/2005 9:46:14 PM   
Lebatron


Posts: 2142
Joined: 5/30/2005
From: Upper Michigan
Status: offline
Hi Guys,
Id like some feedback concerning what I did to China, and how it will affect Japans strategy.

In my mod, Im trying to find a balance that will make it a split decision between a China/India campaign versus a Russian one. Kind of like what I did with Spain by not making it a no-brainer. I'm not trying to make it bad for the Japs to attack Russia. Because I know it was a historic possibility. What I want to do is make it so that its just one way to win, but not THE way to win. Perhaps in real life, attacking Russia would have been their best strategy. But do you want to see the same strategy play out every game because its the optimal way to win? No, I dont think you would. To be fun, WAW needs many different, but equal, ways to win even if certain areas need to be forced into being richer. Some realism needs to take a back seat to achieve this. So what I did was make China richer in some areas.

I kept it simple for my first version by just giving each area of China one resource. This gives them 3 extra. But in future revisions I may move them around. Your suggestions would be greatly appreciated. To get this started, what do you think of the extra resource I added on the coast at Liuchow? Do you think giving Japan this extra resource without a drawback upsets the balance to much? Will this just backfire and make attacking Russia even more optimal. If you think so, I will move this extra resource to Chinas capital. Giving it 2 resources and making it a much more valuable and rewarding target.

On another issue. How many of you would be interested in an alternate version of Strait Deal that makes Spain a frozen ally of Germany?

(in reply to Oleg Mastruko)
Post #: 10
RE: Strait Deal mod, with focus on Spain - 8/11/2005 9:52:10 PM   
Daykeras

 

Posts: 142
Joined: 6/9/2005
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I think spain being a well defended frozen ally of Germany would be the best, kind of like Interior France is. Spain was kind of a frozen ally, and it stops the Gibralter Gambit through Spain.

I like that idea a lot.

(in reply to Lebatron)
Post #: 11
RE: Strait Deal mod, with focus on Spain - 8/12/2005 10:09:47 AM   
WanderingHead

 

Posts: 2132
Joined: 9/22/2004
From: GMT-8
Status: offline
I really like the Leningrad OR Kalinin approach you have.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lebatron
As an alternative, I have tried to create a group requirement to unfreeze Finland. That group would have been Baltic States, Velikiye, and Kalinin. This group OR Leningrad would have then unfroze Finland. But I could not get it to work. Anyone know a way?


Effectively this is pretty much the same as your current version. I think it is unlikely that the German player will take Kalinin without also possessing the Baltic states and Velikiye Luki. I wouldn't worry about it too much.

I think that the resource in Liuchow just makes taking Liuchow a no brainer for the Japanese. Because it is coastal (and holds no political repercussions for USA resource gifts) it doesn't do anthing to encourage the Japanese to move deeper into China, it just gives the Japanese a (almost) free chance for increased production.

(in reply to Lebatron)
Post #: 12
RE: Strait Deal mod, with focus on Spain - 8/12/2005 10:18:42 PM   
Lebatron


Posts: 2142
Joined: 5/30/2005
From: Upper Michigan
Status: offline
I have updated my mod to include the option to play with Spain being a frozen ally of Germany. I call this new campaign "Franco's Alliance." Strait Deal and Franco's Alliance are together in one download. Just install as explained and you can try out either one at the startup screen. I will post Franco's Alliance in a new thread so everyone can see the new readme which outlines the changes I made.


< Message edited by Lebatron -- 8/24/2005 12:07:46 AM >

(in reply to WanderingHead)
Post #: 13
RE: Strait Deal mod, with focus on Spain - 8/15/2005 5:37:35 AM   
WanderingHead

 

Posts: 2132
Joined: 9/22/2004
From: GMT-8
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Hi

One thing I notice is that as the game goes on and Germany gradually fortifies the European coast, Vichy France starts to stick out as a vulnerable Achilles heel. But the Germans can't do anything about it because they can't enter a frozen ally ...

I think that there should be additional events that unfreeze Vichy France:

1) Any of the following taken by Allies:
i) Spain
ii) Northern Italy
iii) Sardinia
iv) maybe Portugal and/or Southern Italy (?)
2) Winter 1943

Historically, the Germans went into Vichy in Fall 1942 in response to the WAllies landing in North Africa. That is covered already in the existing rules, but I think that Germany should also have the opportunity to reinforce it against amphibious assault even if North Africa is bypassed by the WAllies. By Winter 1943, we know the USA will be in the game. And I'm sure that if the Germans saw the need to contain the WAllies in Spain or NItaly, they would have occupied southern France even if the WAllies never landed in NAfrica.

These should not unfreeze Northern Africa, just Southern France.

Any interest?


(in reply to Lebatron)
Post #: 14
RE: Strait Deal mod, with focus on Spain - 8/15/2005 10:49:01 AM   
WanderingHead

 

Posts: 2132
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From: GMT-8
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Another thought for China.

I think that the "production every 3rd turn until Axis enters inland China" rule is supposed to model the fractured nature of the Chinese resistance to the Japanese advances, with no coherence among Nationalists, Communists and local warlords until an inland incursion forces "national unity".

I have no idea how realistic the existing production numbers are historically, but I think that increasing it would realistically encourage Japanese action, because they would be motivated to eliminate the Chinese production. In fact, retaliation against Chinese forces seems like the main historical reason for much of the Japanese activity beyond NE China.

I'd suggest tweaks in Chinese production.

For example, "every 2nd turn" to begin with, and going to full production after, say, Winter 1943 (or inland incursion).

Alternativey, add two Chinese factories and make Chinese flak cost 3. Then they'd have enough factories to soak up some strat bombing, and be encouraged to make infantry.

I'm really not exactly sure how, but I think tweaks to Chinese production could be an effective and realistic way to encourage Japanese interest.

(in reply to Lebatron)
Post #: 15
RE: Strait Deal mod, with focus on Spain - 8/15/2005 3:34:09 PM   
Autoset

 

Posts: 32
Joined: 7/25/2005
Status: offline
Reposted:

Lebatron,
Great effort. I think it is an improvement. I only have a few reservations:

1. Gibralta should have rough terrain!!! OMG! Have you seen pictures of Gibralta? It was a fortress and then some. I'm fine with reducing Malta, but I still prefer the original rules.

2. As far as your change number 6 is concerned, I think GG got the Finn participation correct re: Leningrad. The Finns were fairly static during the war. (Sources confirm Finland's reluctance to pressure the Soviets to any great degree with major offensive operations, especially against Leningrad. See Murray/Millet's "A War to Be Won" for example.) However, if the Germans go beyond Leningrad to Kalinin, I think you have a point.

3. If you give Hungary a factory, please take one away from Romania!!! Strongly disagree with GG that Romania had such a strong industrial capacity. Resources, yes, factories??? No!!!

4. Don't think China needs any resource improvement. Too ahistorical. Also, the only reason (it seems) Japan attacks China, as it stands, is to go for the AV. Now that will be easier.

5. Give Portugal one INF, if you must. That will be closer to historic (they did have an army but it was more like a crappy militia.) I know you want to make it tough for the Allies to invade Europe, but by the time the Allies want to invade, they will have 20+ transports and three to six AC ready to invade. Three INF, an ART and a AA won't do squat. (Besides -- and this is a question -- won't Spain unfreeze if Portugal is attacked?)

Good job.

-Autoset

(in reply to WanderingHead)
Post #: 16
RE: Strait Deal mod, with focus on Spain - 8/15/2005 11:06:36 PM   
Lebatron


Posts: 2142
Joined: 5/30/2005
From: Upper Michigan
Status: offline
Wanderinghead, I do see your point about Vichy France. It is king of frustrating not being able to reinforce. The WA's can avoid unfreezing Vichy France for the sole purpose to keep it weak so they can invade there. But in my mods I don't think its optimal for the WA's to ignore Africa, since Gibraltar may still be under their control. They will have more opportunity to pressure and take Axis lands in Africa long before they have the means to land and take Vichy France. So they probably won't wait and will unfreeze Vichy France anyway. Is my logic correct or am I missing something? Anyway good point, I may add them additional events since in reality they would have made the Germans reinforce Vichy France further.

If I added factories to China it would make getting the auto victory even easier. Yes, I did raise it to 75, but 2 more easy ones for the Japs would make it easier on the Germans. Then I would have to raise it to 76 or 77. The additional resources I added to China do not add to Japans PP's they just help to get all 24 of their factories running. They would still need a few factories outside of China to help with the achieve auto victory. Currently they can get 28PP's just from conquering all of China.

Changing the production rate of China can not be taken lightly, but its a cool idea. So I don't think I should adjust that without a lot of player comments first. For now I'll keep it simple. That being the extra resources I added. They can help the Chinese to soak up some strat bombing if I moved some to where the factories are. When I update Strait Deal and Franco's Alliance I was planning on placing 2 resources in the capital. In this way, its slightly harder to hit the factory.

In response to Autoset:
1. Here's what Oleg said about Gibraltar in his mod Raw Deal "Rough terrain + forts result in attacker having to have 4:1 to capture the area. Given the miniscule size of these areas, I think their fort + rough benefits were unrealistic, so I decided to remove "rough" attribute (they are still fortified, so now you need 3:1). Gobi desert is example of "rough terrain", Gibraltar and Malta are not, because they're so small, no matter how "rough" they really are, it's marginal given the scale of this game."
I agree with him. Even without the rough terrain, it can be tough to take. What the Germans can bring to bare on it is limited. Like I said in the readme, the WA can in most cases hold it if they wanted. If I made it rough again, the Germans would never try to take it by sea. Might as well make it impossible. Options, I like options. Wouldn't you like to at least have the option to take a shot at Gibraltar?

2. Finns may have been more confident if the Germans did well in the north. Besides this change is minor, and only alters things a little.

3. You agree with GG that Romania had a lot of resources, but disagree on the factory output. hmm Well I think GG placed 3 factories there to represent the Romania oil refineries that were so important to the Axis war effort. In the game they are limited to producing only militia, supply, and research. In most cases you would use the Romanian factories for supply. In other words, the 3 resources are being turned into fuel supply on the spot by the 3 factories. I think its realistic when you look at it this way, rather than thinking of those factories as producing war machines. And remember my new factory at Hungary is limited in the same way. You'll probably make either militia or supply with it. Sure Germany is now a little stronger than stock, but when you take into account that the Med may be open to the WA's I think its a fair boost.

4. Extra resources do not automatically equate to extra PP. I covered that above in my response to WanderingHead. And besides I'll say it again. Auto victory has been increased to 75. That alone is an important improvement. To address your comment about China's resources being 'ahistorical' I'll just say you are totally right. But so is the game in stock form. In reality, China is resource rich just like North America. Look at the huge numbers GG gave America. If China was just half as resource rich as America is in the game, it would need many more. But GG and crew selected the stock numbers for game balance. But with extra play, above and beyond, prerelease testing, I think its been shown to not be enough. Japanese players don't want to bother with China because its a poor return and instead focus on Russia. GG and crew probably did not have that in mind. Please read item 8 in my readme and give me a follow-up response. I'm sure you don't want Japan going after Russia every game, do you?

5. I think 1 infantry at Portugal is too little to discourage the WA's. Since there is no political structure to this game that will keep the WA's honest, the only thing that can be done to steer the WA's in their role as liberators rather than conquerors is to use a strong enough deterrent. I think 2 or 3 infantry is needed to do that. I went with 3 but could drop it down to 2. But I really wouldn't be so concerned about it. Those Portuguese troops aren't going to turn into free German troops if the allies take the Azores. Item 2 in my readme explains the how's and why's of that change.

(Besides -- and this is a question -- won't Spain unfreeze if Portugal is attacked?)
That's a good question Autoset. What would Spain have done if the WA's landed in Portugal? I'm no WWII expert so I think I'm going to start a new thread to ask that.
Go here:What would Spain do?

I look forward to further comments.




< Message edited by Lebatron -- 8/24/2005 12:15:07 AM >

(in reply to Autoset)
Post #: 17
RE: Strait Deal mod, with focus on Spain - 8/15/2005 11:31:15 PM   
Oleg Mastruko


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Hungary produced their own tanks and airplanes in WW2. They were also the last German ally to surrender (not counting Croatia ) fighting and mobilizing units into '45 when everybody else went to Allied side or simply gave up. That merits a factory in my opinion (even though it lets them build only militia).

Issue of Hungarian factory is really moot, as it's the *resources* that are limiting factor for Axis, not factories. You may as well give Germans 5 more factories and not much would change strategically. I gave Hungarians their fac in my mod for historic reasons, and because it's nice to have another flag on that production screen.

O.

(in reply to Lebatron)
Post #: 18
RE: Strait Deal mod, with focus on Spain - 8/15/2005 11:37:25 PM   
Oleg Mastruko


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Autoset
2. As far as your change number 6 is concerned, I think GG got the Finn participation correct re: Leningrad. The Finns were fairly static during the war. (Sources confirm Finland's reluctance to pressure the Soviets to any great degree with major offensive operations, especially against Leningrad. See Murray/Millet's "A War to Be Won" for example.) However, if the Germans go beyond Leningrad to Kalinin, I think you have a point.


Problem with Leningrad in the original game, in my opinion, is that it acts as some sort of "magic key" to unlock the Finns. Finns are very powerful in the original game, and they can be unlocked ONLY if LG is taken.

Knowing this, German player may, and oftenly will, mass armies in East Prussia and take LG in the very first turn. Then Finns are unlocked and they start their unstoppable northern crusade taking couple areas very far from their homeland (which is something they were never able nor willing to do historically).

Of course, I am speaking only for myself, not in Lebatron's name but since I see he borrowed couple ideas from me I guess we share the similar opinion on some "issues".

O.

(in reply to Autoset)
Post #: 19
RE: Strait Deal mod, with focus on Spain - 8/15/2005 11:51:05 PM   
JanSorensen

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Oleg Mastruko

Issue of Hungarian factory is really moot, as it's the *resources* that are limiting factor for Axis, not factories. You may as well give Germans 5 more factories and not much would change strategically. I gave Hungarians their fac in my mod for historic reasons, and because it's nice to have another flag on that production screen.

O.


During the first couple of years factories are what limits German production - and its during those years that production is really importent. So I am not sure how you can say that extra factories would not matter much.

(in reply to Oleg Mastruko)
Post #: 20
RE: Strait Deal mod, with focus on Spain - 8/16/2005 12:42:08 AM   
Oleg Mastruko


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JanSorensen
During the first couple of years factories are what limits German production - and its during those years that production is really importent. So I am not sure how you can say that extra factories would not matter much.


In "regular" games, barring any extraordinary events, factories never limit German production.

Germans start with 31 factory points (factories x national multiplier) and 19 networked resources in the original game. So they may as well start with 80 factories, they would not have enough resources to power them all.

By the time they conquer France, Holland, Danemark and Norway and repair everything there they will have 28 "networked" resources - capable of feeding 28 factory points. But with Vichy and captured France factories they will also have 37 FPs to feed!

From that moment on it's free for all. I assume Germans will not be able to use "unnetworked" resources in West Med and Italian East Africa freely, as any WA player with half a brain will at least contest those resources. But they will probably take 2 res in Yugoslavia (total 30) and are free to try to take anything else (that's what this game is all about ). Even with Spanish and Greek resources though they are below the required limit to bring full factories into play.

Germans may be able to grab additional resources in many places (but WA player's task is to stop them). If they grab 37 resources by Fall 41, they are well on their way to auto victory, so Hungarian factory is the least of problems Allied player is facing.

By Winter 42 when Germans go on x3 multiplier on German factories, factories should not matter at all (if they do, then the game should be over by auto victory). Hungarian factory will always have it's little multiplier of x1, and is capable of producing only militia. In 42, if they keep France etc. Germans will have to feed 47 FPs with as many resources. With Hungarian factory in my mod they will have to feed 48 FPs. With some captured Russian factories even more, but again it's the resources that will limit their production.

If Germans are capable of feeding their 47 (or 48, 50 does not matter) FPs with resources, then Japanese should make short work of taking DEI, and bringing PP to 70+ thus deciding the game on auto victory. I did exactly that in my games many times.

It is worth noting that in my mod I reduced the starting militia in Hungary and Bulgaria. Removed total of two militias. It will take two turns for Hungarians with their factory to produce them and bring Axis militia count to original level. In fact those changes in my mod reduced Axis strength overall, unless they realy manage to capture incredible amount of resources early on to make it count.

I can't see how it can be done, but even if it can, you'll need three turns (before 42!!) for Hungarian factory to really make good use of it to say it really helped the Axis cause in anything more than being pretty icon on the map . All this is practically impossible.

(Also worth noting is that in my mod Axis requires 72 PPs for auto victory).

Lebatron sorry if I hijacked your thread

Oleg

(in reply to JanSorensen)
Post #: 21
RE: Strait Deal mod, with focus on Spain - 8/16/2005 9:04:58 PM   
Forwarn45

 

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quote:

quote:
During the first couple of years factories are what limits German production - and its during those years that production is really importent. So I am not sure how you can say that extra factories would not matter much.

[To which Oleg replies]
In "regular" games, barring any extraordinary events, factories never limit German production.


I think you mean production for AV purposes Oleg - where free trade doesn't count. However, the lack of factories does limit actual German production. Basically, from turn 2 on, the Germans will have more than enough resources (if you include free trade) to operate all their factories at full capacity.

< Message edited by Forwarn45 -- 8/16/2005 9:07:03 PM >

(in reply to Oleg Mastruko)
Post #: 22
RE: Strait Deal mod, with focus on Spain - 8/16/2005 9:19:26 PM   
Oleg Mastruko


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Forwarn45
I think you mean production for AV purposes Oleg - where free trade doesn't count. However, the lack of factories does limit actual German production. Basically, from turn 2 on, the Germans will have more than enough resources (if you include free trade) to operate all their factories at full capacity.


Correct, I didn't count free trade, all I care about is what counts against AV limit. Free trade is for wussies, real leaders do not rely on trade, they take their resources using their military strength

Joking aside, still I think what you say is overly ambitious. If everything goes perfect for Germans, AND if WA player does not contest their empire, Germans can have barely enough resources to feed their factories from turn 2 or 3. But as I said I assume WA player will *at least* take Italian Africa and disrupt the West Med link (thus denying 2 or 3 resources I am not sure right now). Not to mention bombing, raids and possible counter attacks by WA.

Also, in my mod I took care to make 1-2-3 conquest of Spain harder, and I guess Spain will not fall before turns 3 or 4 if German player pursues this strategy in my mod, thus further delaying "full production paradise" you talk about. He then needs two turns to make militia units I removed, and by turn 8 it's 42, prod modifier goes to x3 and it's whole new ball game.

Hey if the German player is so lucky and good, and if WA player is so hare brained to let him, then yes, the German player will enjoy the full benefits of mighty x1 modifier Hungarian factory for like couple turns In those conditions I think he deserves it.

O.

(in reply to Forwarn45)
Post #: 23
RE: Strait Deal mod, with focus on Spain - 8/22/2005 1:13:33 AM   
Lebatron


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Hi Guys,
I just updated Strait Deal. It now includes map fixes which are going to be in the next official patch. But why wait that longCheck out what's new in the readme above. Got 3 pics to show you.



Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Lebatron -- 8/22/2005 1:42:32 AM >

(in reply to Oleg Mastruko)
Post #: 24
RE: Strait Deal mod, with focus on Spain - 8/22/2005 1:18:58 AM   
Lebatron


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From: Upper Michigan
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Another pic




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Lebatron)
Post #: 25
RE: Strait Deal mod, with focus on Spain - 8/22/2005 1:19:35 AM   
Lebatron


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Another




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Lebatron -- 8/25/2005 8:21:09 AM >

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Post #: 26
RE: Strait Deal mod, with focus on Spain - 8/25/2005 8:26:52 AM   
Lebatron


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Hi Guys,
I just made a small update. Its only 2 changes that really have nothing to do with how the game plays. First, I finished the last of the border work on Afghanistan, and second I combined the two readme files into one. Functionally the borders at Afghan were working properly in V1.3, I just did not have all the cosmetic fixes in that release. The pic below shows the new border I added. Now its complete. In my new readme I decided to drop the separate version numbers for the two mods. When Franco's Alliance was made, I was at V1.2 for Strait Deal, but decided to name Franco V1.0 since that was really its first release. Shortly after, I went to 1.3 and 1.1 respectively. I want to end any possible confusion, so Franco's Alliance and Strait Deal are now the same version number. Installing 1.4 over 1.3 will do nothing to existing games so I would suggest go ahead and get the update.

Now that I have a combined readme it will no longer be necessary to maintain two separate posts for my mods. So I'm going to delete the other thread.





Attachment (1)

(in reply to Lebatron)
Post #: 27
RE: Franco's Alliance and Strait Deal V1.4 - 8/31/2005 6:38:36 AM   
SGT Rice

 

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Franco's Alliance looks like a big step forward; can't wait to try it against a human opponent. And a very heartfelt thank you for the tip on zoom levels - now I can see the map!

I like the increased incentive to take on China; wonder how well the Chinese will stand up to the increased attention over repeated playings?

With all the talk about Finland's historical reticence to engage in offensive operations, it seems the realistic solution for the Finns would be to make unfreezing Finland even more restrictive. If the Finnish government lived in fear of post-war reprisal by a vengeful USSR then they probably wouldn't have freed their troops until Leningrad AND Moscow had fallen. If they simply weren't willing to participate in campaigns of military aggression, then it seems their "at start" forces should be locked in place permanently, while additional German units could move into/thru Finland (perhaps that requires a significant change to the game engine though).

I agree with Autoset that the Portugese army is too much; also agree with you that 1 INF (or MIL more likely) is not a sufficient deterrent to a WA invasion of Portugal. But wouldn't unfreezing Spain - perhaps even Vichy - provide that deterrent?

Great job.

(in reply to Lebatron)
Post #: 28
RE: Franco's Alliance and Strait Deal V1.4 - 8/31/2005 6:50:01 AM   
a511


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quote:

additional German units could move into/thru Finland


i agree, it is particularly important for the ger if they didnt launch barbarossa b4 Wi43 but wanted to defend finland, its politically freezed allied. but dont know whether its feasible to be added in a mod.

AN

(in reply to SGT Rice)
Post #: 29
RE: Franco's Alliance and Strait Deal V1.4 - 8/31/2005 7:09:47 PM   
aletoledo


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I like the additional resources in china, it really makes it a more tempting target.

perhaps there needs to be a way to encourage an earlier attack into the DEI? perhaps increasing the resources there in some way also?

(in reply to a511)
Post #: 30
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