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RE: When? - 2/3/2010 10:06:54 PM   
abj9562


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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: abj9562

The graphics are awesome as far as I am concerned. Faithful to the original and updated to clear up erata issues. Patrice and Steve did an awesome job on the map and counters with massive amounts of input and assistance from numerous forum members. There are several threads with lots of pictures in them. Look around and enjoy!

Warspite1

Absolutely right! The counters are faithful to the original which is good news because the Ships in Flames and Planes in Flames counters are two of the best features of WIF and make the game so aesthetically pleasing.

However, the maps are not faithful to the original - and thank goodness for that..well thank Steve actually . The one area I thought ADG took a backward step with was when they changed to the latest maps....those mountains..horrible . MWIF maps on the other hand are the business.



Absolutely right! I should have added the changes made by Patrice to the maps came from all corners of the globe and many of the inputs came from local residents with first hand knowledge. The map is indeed a step up from WiF Deluxe in my opinion too!

_____________________________

Integrity is what you do when nobody is watching.

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Post #: 1801
RE: When? - 2/4/2010 1:56:35 PM   
micheljq


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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

However, the maps are not faithful to the original - and thank goodness for that..well thank Steve actually . The one area I thought ADG took a backward step with was when they changed to the latest maps....those mountains..horrible . MWIF maps on the other hand are the business.



Personally I like the WiF maps of the classic edition, you should see those of the 5th edition, whoaa, compared to the classic edition they are ugly!


_____________________________

Michel Desjardins,
"Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious" - Oscar Wilde
"History is a set of lies agreed upon" - Napoleon Bonaparte after the battle of Waterloo, june 18th, 1815

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 1802
RE: When? - 2/4/2010 4:27:56 PM   
composer99


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There has been a graphic artist working on the project as well. At any rate, the graphics are pretty much complete. I suspect the most odious task yet facing Steve, apart from his hardware/software upgrade concerns, is ongoing bug correction.

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~ Composer99

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Post #: 1803
RE: When? - 2/4/2010 7:34:33 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: micheljq


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

However, the maps are not faithful to the original - and thank goodness for that..well thank Steve actually . The one area I thought ADG took a backward step with was when they changed to the latest maps....those mountains..horrible . MWIF maps on the other hand are the business.



Personally I like the WiF maps of the classic edition, you should see those of the 5th edition, whoaa, compared to the classic edition they are ugly!

Warspite1

By 5th Edition, I think you mean the one where the clear hexes were white? If so - I liked them, in a functional kind of way because they were simple and easy on the eye.

Which just goes to prove beauty is in the eye of the beholder and you can`t please all the people all the time .

Out of interest, do you prefer those in the classic edition or MWIF?


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England expects that every man will do his duty - Horatio Nelson 1805.




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Post #: 1804
RE: When? - 2/4/2010 8:29:16 PM   
micheljq


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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: micheljq

Personally I like the WiF maps of the classic edition, you should see those of the 5th edition, whoaa, compared to the classic edition they are ugly!

Warspite1

By 5th Edition, I think you mean the one where the clear hexes were white? If so - I liked them, in a functional kind of way because they were simple and easy on the eye.

Which just goes to prove beauty is in the eye of the beholder and you can`t please all the people all the time .

Out of interest, do you prefer those in the classic edition or MWIF?



Yes I think the 5th edition's were with white clear hexes and ugly (to my sense) brown mountain hexes? It's been a while.

Do I prefer classic or MWiF? mmm difficult to say because I did not use the MWiF ones yet. But I saw them, I must say I like them, more information, but above all I am eager to try the Asian/China maps with the new scale.

_____________________________

Michel Desjardins,
"Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious" - Oscar Wilde
"History is a set of lies agreed upon" - Napoleon Bonaparte after the battle of Waterloo, june 18th, 1815

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 1805
RE: When? - 2/9/2010 1:17:13 PM   
Patton_71

 

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Just a quick question....As one who trolls, I am having difficulty locationg the last time there was a release date quoted in the forum...anyone have recent info on the date?

Thanks

Patton

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Post #: 1806
RE: When? - 2/9/2010 5:02:57 PM   
CarnivalBizarre

 

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Probably not this year, looking that the AI is hardly started yet and there has been software troubles. Maybe 2011 is reasonable?

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Post #: 1807
RE: When? - 2/10/2010 8:18:45 AM   
Blorsh


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At 1998 Wif annual was announced the CWIF soon, so be patient,the CWIF will became MWIF someday, I hope so.

(in reply to CarnivalBizarre)
Post #: 1808
RE: When? - 2/10/2010 5:24:52 PM   
composer99


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Patton, since you have 1 post to your name, I'm not sure you can call yourself a troll. Maybe more like a lurker.

_____________________________

~ Composer99

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Post #: 1809
RE: When? - 2/10/2010 5:47:08 PM   
macgregor


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You guys are knocking out 2010 a little too casually for my liking. The year just got started. To think our conservative estimates were summer not too long ago(after...). Forgive me, my focus is on the destination not the journey. Absolute complacency is not going to release this game. There are those that would sellout their aspirations to avoid the upset of not achieving them. I am applying my honest take as someone who wants to play. Keep up the good work Steve.

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Post #: 1810
RE: When? - 2/10/2010 8:48:58 PM   
Patton_71

 

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Ah yes, a lurker.

Sigh..now we are talking 2011? wow...Ill still get it, but man, am i getting impatient. Been salivating for a long time...almost dehydrated

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Post #: 1811
RE: When? - 2/11/2010 3:44:07 PM   
abj9562


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When someone funds Matrix to make MWiF, then, I'll seriously listen to their comments about release dates. So when Harry, Steve or the Matrix staff states the release date is a problem - then I'll believe it. Until then feel free to comment, gripe, complain or whatever you wish to call it. However, to quickly release a product to satisfy a few peoples desires would be a poor and inadequate business decision at best. Think about Toyota and their issues for releasing a product before it is ready. As for me I do not want a product that is defective. Still, I understand a release patch or two will probably be necessaryafter release, as Matrix can not fund a QA staff of 5 to 10 software engineers. So minor bugs and glitches I can accept when it comes out. So long as it is patched quickly.

_____________________________

Integrity is what you do when nobody is watching.

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Post #: 1812
RE: When? - 2/12/2010 2:41:26 AM   
macgregor


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Blorsh

At 1998 Wif annual was announced the CWIF soon, so be patient,the CWIF will became MWIF someday, I hope so.

Yes I know. My dog; CWIF is now 12 years old. I get anxious, yes, but it's for all his sake.





Attachment (1)

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Post #: 1813
RE: When? - 2/12/2010 3:17:22 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: macgregor


quote:

ORIGINAL: Blorsh

At 1998 Wif annual was announced the CWIF soon, so be patient,the CWIF will became MWIF someday, I hope so.

Yes I know. My dog; CWIF is now 12 years old. I get anxious, yes, but it's for all his sake.







_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

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Post #: 1814
RE: When? - 2/12/2010 9:08:04 PM   
macgregor


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It was the best I could do. He's cute though ...okay she's cute. I checked the page again. It's a she.

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Post #: 1815
RE: When? - 2/12/2010 9:13:47 PM   
paulderynck


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Save it for the: "if you don't buy this game, we'll shoot this dog" ad.

edit: ...oh yeah -->

< Message edited by paulderynck -- 2/12/2010 9:15:29 PM >


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Paul

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Post #: 1816
RE: When? - 2/12/2010 10:53:08 PM   
Edfactor


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quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

Save it for the: "if you don't buy this game, we'll shoot this dog" ad.

edit: ...oh yeah -->


No no we won't be shooting any dog! Do you want PETA to get involved? you know they would have no problem filing lawsuits to prevent the publishing of a game that threatens the lives of animals.

So please remember: No animals were harmed in the making of this product.

(in reply to paulderynck)
Post #: 1817
RE: When? - 2/13/2010 6:35:04 AM   
vonRocko

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edfactor

So please remember: No animals were harmed in the making of this product.


No, but a lot of chickens, cows and pigs were eaten waiting for the game!

(in reply to Edfactor)
Post #: 1818
RE: When? - 2/13/2010 10:11:19 PM   
Evildan


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So what happens after Steve is forced to retire and the CWIF game hasn't been published yet?

"If this man should fall...
who will pick up the flag in his stead?!"

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Post #: 1819
RE: When? - 2/13/2010 11:20:15 PM   
flipperwasirish


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Evildan

So what happens after Steve is forced to retire and the CWIF game hasn't been published yet?

"If this man should fall...
who will pick up the flag in his stead?!"


You don't really want to know the answer to this.

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Flipper

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Post #: 1820
RE: When? - 2/13/2010 11:54:48 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Evildan

So what happens after Steve is forced to retire and the CWIF game hasn't been published yet?

"If this man should fall...
who will pick up the flag in his stead?!"

To quote Mark Twain: "The rumors of my death have been greatly exaggerated."

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

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Post #: 1821
RE: When? - 2/17/2010 2:03:38 PM   
Skanvak

 

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I think the reasonnable date is to give no date due to the actual developpement model. I share the feeling that giving no expectation is better than failed expectations.

I am happy that the rumour about Steve's death were exagerated.

So let developpement be as we all want a finished game.


_____________________________


Best regards

Skanvak

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Post #: 1822
RE: When? - 2/26/2010 3:17:35 PM   
SewerStarFish


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quote:

ORIGINAL: macgregor
quote:

ORIGINAL: Blorsh
At 1998 Wif annual was announced the CWIF soon, so be patient,the CWIF will became MWIF someday, I hope so.

Yes I know. My dog; CWIF is now 12 years old. I get anxious, yes, but it's for all his sake.




Macgregors gaming group: Won't eat until Mwif is released.





Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Why choose the lesser evil: Vote Cthulhu.

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Post #: 1823
RE: When? - 2/27/2010 2:55:34 PM   
macgregor


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Well you're partially right. At least Steve gives us enough to maintain body weight. When I heard that TOAW's long-awaited patch was going to deny larger scenarios even minimally functional naval unit attributes(when it ever shows up -MWiF may get here first) I switched avatars. To me all other work on that game is tantamount to rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

< Message edited by macgregor -- 2/27/2010 10:42:00 PM >

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Post #: 1824
RE: When? - 3/3/2010 12:38:05 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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March 1, 2010 Status Report for Matrix Games’ MWIF Forum


Accomplishments of February 2010

Project Management
I monitored all the threads in the MWIF World in Flames forum daily.

Hardware and Software
I spent virtually all of February replacing assembler routines with equivalent Pascal routines. This is still a work in progress but it has improved the performance of the Delphi 2010 IDE (Interactive Development Environment) when executing MWIF in debug mode. Happily, I am now able to examine internal values of variables while the program is running. Things aren’t 100% what they had been when I was running Delphi 2007, but they are ~80% now. Once I get the rest of assembler code replaced with pure Pascal, I am hopeful of getting my debugging efficiency back to where it was a couple of months ago.

Why am I removing the assembler code? Well here is a short explanation from Zorachus99:

No wonder you are having trouble with your IDE.
1) Some registers are being quietly deprecated, and a lot of the old ones don't work the same in a 32 vs 64 bit OS.
2) New registers are being added to processors for a variety of reasons
3) Some registers are being re-purposed to do different things.

The short and long as a result:

1) OS (Microsoft) vendors don't want you playing with the CPU directly and go to great lengths to prevent it with emulators (which fail regularly). This is primarily because 16 bit != 32 bit != 64 bit != 128 bit registers.
2) Theoretically you could live off emulators, but it's better to move up a level and abstract routines, not directly handling hardware, rather than try to drive the hardware at maximum speed.



Registers are the storage locations used by the CPU. Indeed, they are a physical part of the CPU. I wrote a couple of games in assembler for the 8086 CPU, which evolved into a family of CPUs known collectively and the X86 CPUs. If you are running Win7, you’ll see that your file directory has two folders for program files: Program Files and Program Files (x86). The latter is for programs written for the older x86 family of CPUs.

I have some direct evidence that the problems I have had with Delphi 2010 relate to the CWIF code that is written in assembler. In technical terms, assembler works with the CPU registers directly, and the CWIF code modified the call stack directly. As Zorachus99 said, the guys who write the operating system code do not want application programmers messing around with those. From a practical point of view, if they don’t want you (the application programmer) to do that, then you shouldn’t, since it is likely that you will not be informed about changes they make in the operating system. If they change something in the operating system that the application program’s assembler code was relying on, well, then the program crashes.

Pascal is a strongly typed language - it has a lot of rules about what can and cannot be done. While you can add ‘St’ to ‘eve’ and get ‘Steve’, or add 3 to 4 and get 7, you cannot add 6 to ‘air units’ and expect to get 6 air units. The compiler checks to see that everything makes sense. If any of the rules it imposes are violated, the compiler displays an error message when the program is compiled, or at least a warning message.

Assembler works with binary strings (e.g., 0111001) and uses them for both variables and procedures. In assembler, variables are untyped - ‘this’. A procedure - “do that” (e.g., sort by unit type, find all bombers) is also a binary string. In assembler you can add 6 to air units and the compiler will not complain. Of course the program will crash in strange ways when it executes that instruction, but there will be no warnings from the compiler about the faulty code.

For those of you who do not understand any of this, let me try a simple analogy. Pascal has rules, like the rules of the road for cars. It stops the programmer from violating the rules of the road, thereby preventing numerous crashes. Assembler, however, has no rules. The cars can drive wherever they like, however they like. With assembler, you can go the wrong direction on one-way streets or exceed the speed limit on S curves. That is fine if the driver/programmer is very careful and it helps if you are the only car on the road.

When we introduce different CPU chips (e.g., dual core and quad core), there can be more than “1 car on the road”. Threading has a similar effect. The operating systems that you are use to running keep several program executing simultaneously and they do that using complex software that works down at the level of the CPU registers. An application written in assembler relies on the CPU registers and call stack being available according to certain rules. If the operating system vender (i.e, Microsoft) or the compiler vendor (Embarcadero) changes those rules, then the program has to be modified to obey the changed behavior.

So, MWIF contained a fair amount of assembler code. The new CPUs and operating systems don’t process that code as the programmer intended/expected. More threatening, Embarcadero has announced that integrating assembler code into Pascal code with be deprecated in future releases of Delphi.

While I was able to replace a lot of the assembler code easily, there were a few places where a one-to-one replacement could not be done. The assembler code more or less took ‘this’ and did ‘that’ to it. Pascal wants all those variables and procedures typed. While the assembler code worked with all variable types and all procedure types, in Pascal separate code fragments are necessary for each variation in the program. There were ~1730 references to one assembler procedure in MWIF. Each of those single line references requires 8-10 lines of new code. Over the course of February I have gotten that count down to 590, while also cleaning up all the other miscellaneous bit of assembler code. I should be able to purge MWIF of the last traces of assembler in the next week. Note that once all the assembler is gone, I will have added ~14,000 lines of new code to the program.

Beta Testing
Right now the beta testers are running into fatal crashes caused by Theme Engine 9.10. But I am assuming that software library is innocent until after I get all the assembler code removed. If it still causes trouble once the assembler code is gone, I’ll look into rewriting some (as little as possible) of the Theme Engine source code - i.e., I’ll debug it for MWIF.

I released versions 4.00.06 and 4.00.07 of MWIF to the beta testers in February. The primary goal of these versions was to let the beta testers see if I screwed up anything that use to work before my hundreds of edits replacing assembler calls.

Saved Games
Nothing new.

Map and Units
Nothing new other than some more naval unit writeups from Rob/Warspite.

Scenarios and Optional Rules
Nothing new.

MWIF Game Engine and CWIF Conversion
Assembler code replaced with Pascal code.

Player Interface
Nothing new.

Internet - NetPlay
Nothing new.

PBEM
Nothing new.

Artificial Intelligence (AI)
Nothing new.

Player’s Manual
Nothing new.

Tutorials, Training Videos, and Context Sensitive Help
Nothing new.

Historical Video, Music, and Sound Effects
Nothing new.

Marketing
Nothing new.

Communications
Nothing new.


_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to macgregor)
Post #: 1825
RE: When? - 3/3/2010 4:58:29 AM   
CSS

 

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Sounds like a Bome Marrow transplant?

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Post #: 1826
RE: When? - 3/3/2010 7:23:18 AM   
norvandave


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Steve, in a weird way I guess it was a good thing that you upgraded to Delphi 10 and found these problems now. It probably would have been harder to fix down the road. Perhaps some users would have experienced problems due to the assembler code.

It seems that the path is clear now to finish the game sometime this year. <fingers crossed>

Keep up the fight. Waiting patiently. I know it will be worth the wait. I'm sure as much as we want the game, you want to finish it much more.

-DAVE



_____________________________

First there is a mountain, then there is no mountain, then there is.

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Post #: 1827
RE: When? - 3/3/2010 8:29:19 AM   
vonpaul


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Thanks for the update Steve.

Norvandave, I think we should have realistic expectations about the release date.

(in reply to norvandave)
Post #: 1828
RE: When? - 3/3/2010 10:21:40 AM   
oscar72se

 

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From: Gothenburg Sweden
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
When we introduce different CPU chips (e.g., dual core and quad core), there can be more than “1 car on the road”. Threading has a similar effect. The operating systems that you are use to running keep several program executing simultaneously and they do that using complex software that works down at the level of the CPU registers. An application written in assembler relies on the CPU registers and call stack being available according to certain rules. If the operating system vender (i.e, Microsoft) or the compiler vendor (Embarcadero) changes those rules, then the program has to be modified to obey the changed behavior.

I don't have any experience of Delphi 2010, even though I had a brief encounter with Delpi in the late 90s IMHO whilst threading is a powerful tool to make asynchrounous calls "off the main thread" it also is a maaaajor source of what I like to call "occult bugs" The problem is that most debuggers have a hard time attaching themselves to external processes, which means that errors "go unhandled" from the main threads POV. Bugs created this way and that don't cause immediate crashes have a tendency of being super hard to find. I have found that a very good approach is to write separate applications that are only used to test the different routines that are to be executed in its' own thread.

Once or twice in my life I have stumbled upon tasks similar to your "migrate-50-year-old-code" to routines that actually makes any sense and that fits into a modern object oriented world. Each time it resulted in me rewriting everything from scratch. I think I have a vague understanding of the scope of your task, so your feat doesn't go entirely unnoticed...

Keep fighting Steve!


Regards,
Oscar

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 1829
RE: When? - 3/3/2010 12:56:53 PM   
yvesp


Posts: 1634
Joined: 9/12/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
While I was able to replace a lot of the assembler code easily, there were a few places where a one-to-one replacement could not be done. The assembler code more or less took ‘this’ and did ‘that’ to it. Pascal wants all those variables and procedures typed. While the assembler code worked with all variable types and all procedure types, in Pascal separate code fragments are necessary for each variation in the program. There were ~1730 references to one assembler procedure in MWIF. Each of those single line references requires 8-10 lines of new code. Over the course of February I have gotten that count down to 590, while also cleaning up all the other miscellaneous bit of assembler code. I should be able to purge MWIF of the last traces of assembler in the next week. Note that once all the assembler is gone, I will have added ~14,000 lines of new code to the program.


Looks like these assembler procedures were used to do the same thing to different types of data ?
Don't you have genericity in Delphi ?

Yves

< Message edited by yvesp -- 3/3/2010 12:58:49 PM >

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 1830
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