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RE: Proper Place?

 
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RE: Proper Place? - 4/11/2013 3:10:16 PM   
flipperwasirish


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Bo,

At this time that is not possible.



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Flipper

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RE: Proper Place? - 4/11/2013 6:41:53 PM   
bo

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: flipperwasirish

Bo,

At this time that is not possible.



Ok Flip but I am still glad to see you here

Bo

(in reply to flipperwasirish)
Post #: 3212
RE: When? - 4/23/2013 8:48:18 PM   
Ronson


Posts: 140
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hi all,just checking in to see the progress of this game getting close maybe?Started following this game when I was 46 now Im 57. maybe when I retire.

(in reply to Gendarme)
Post #: 3213
RE: When? - 4/25/2013 5:57:37 AM   
bo

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ronson

hi all,just checking in to see the progress of this game getting close maybe?Started following this game when I was 46 now Im 57. maybe when I retire.


Good lord I think you are the youngest here We all took an oath in 2006 that we would not shave until Steve finished this game, does Rip Van Winkle ring a bell.

Just kidding Steve

Bo

(in reply to Ronson)
Post #: 3214
RE: When? - 4/25/2013 9:06:08 AM   
Joseignacio


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(in reply to bo)
Post #: 3215
RE: When? - 5/2/2013 5:08:25 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 17934
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline
May 1, 2013 Status Report for Matrix Games’ MWIF Forum

Accomplishments of April 2013

Hardware and Software
The open items for Theme Engine remain unchanged: minimizing the game generates a Mad Except error, and so does trying to display detailed listings of file directories (i.e., the dates and stuff) when opening or saving a file. If push comes to shove, I can always substitute in standard Windows code for opening and saving files; that would be uglier, but at least it wouldn’t crash.

Beta Testing
In April I released 3 new versions to the beta testers: 10.03.00 (12 fixes), 10.03.01 (8 fixes), and 10.03.03 (8 fixes). The last of those was on April 14th. I have 20 fixes done for version 10.03.04, which is waiting for me to finish supply. Both the number of new versions and fixes (48) are dramatically below my averages. What can I say, debugging supply takes a lot of my time and effort.

We have a half dozen new beta testers arriving and they are reporting bugs that no one else had encountered (different computer system configurations).

Below is the summary of my Master Task List (MTL) as of May 1st. My task list count is 84, up from 70 at the start of the month. The NetPlay list is volatile , since as I fix NetPlay bugs the beta testers reach additional sections of the code to test. I am still more concerned about NetPlay than the other bugs. The latter jumped up to 72 (from last month’s count of 54), but that is because I have not been fixing them as they are reported. I adamantly refused to look up from my work on supply, so they have accumulated; most of them are minor. Typically, I fix minor bugs when they are reported (which only takes 5 or so minutes for each), hence they never even make it to my task list.

NetPlay [12] 1589, {1594, 1859}, 1785, 1826, 1827, 1911, 1912, 1913, 1914, 1915, 1916, 1921

Sequence of Play [54]
Supply [3]: 191, 1070, 1036
Setup Phases [3]: 1900, 1906, 1908
Reinforcements [1]: 1917
DOW [1]: 1909
Air Missions [3]: 1611, 1890, 1891
Naval Movement [2]: 1813, 1816
Naval Combat [11]: {874, 1531}, 1566, 1599, 1701, 1724, 1815, 1847, 1868, 1869, 1872, 1899
Land Combat Declaration [2]: 1892, 1897
Land Combat Resolution [2]: 1873, 1918
Emergency HQ Supply [1]: 1910
Reorganization [3]: 1855, 1856, 1896
US Entry [1]: 1898
Production Planning [12]: 1107, {847, 961, 1347}, 326, 1644, 1671, 1825, 1862, 1863, 1864, 1871, 1893, 1895
Search Seizure [1]: 409
Reform Units [1]: 1851
Vichy [4]: 1803, 1811, 1903, 1904
Liberation [2]: 891, 1919
Final Reorganization [1]: 1733

Non-sequence of Play [18]
Detailed Map [5]: 1188, 142, 769,140, 1501
Player Interface [3]: 1901, 1920, 1922
Screen Layouts [2]: 1894, 1902
Game Save/Restore [6]: 695, 517, 110, 118, 1778, 1907
Theme Engine [2]: {1050, 568}, {1513, 1467, 966, 1455, 1573, 1655}

Saved Games
Done, except for 6 bugs.

Map, Units, and Scenarios
I am still getting unit writeups from Warspite and Adam Scott (who sent me writeups on a dozen land units last month).

Optional Rules
Nothing new.

Game Engine
The last half of the month I spent on restructuring the data for supply so I could write the code for recalculating supply. Earlier in the month I ironed out the last of the bugs in calculating supply from scratch. There were several weird little instances in the dozen games I have been using for testing the supply code. I’m pretty confident that I now have all the fundamentals working correctly. But I need the recalculations to execute almost instantaneously - for example, whenever a player moves a land unit. To make that happen I changed the data storage for supply paths from dynamic (i.e., ever increasing in number) to static (i.e., a predefined number that never increases). For each secondary supply source there are now 26 possible supply paths. These modifications reduced the number of likely supply paths from over 150,000 to under 13,000. 90% of the latter will never be used, but there is a place in memory to store all that may be needed.

The sad part of this tale is that by making changes to the primitive elements of the supply code I introduced dozens of new bugs. Hence the two weeks I spent debugging it. On the plus side, my understanding of the supply rules and the supply code is pretty awesome at this point - I’m sure that will fade rapidly.

What I am working on today (besides this report) is determining exactly where in the sequence of play supply should be recalculated. I do not want to do it unless it is necessary, since it can take several seconds under some circumstances (e.g., if the weather change worldwide). At the end of this report is my current list of when supply should be recalculated. You’ll notice that I differentiate between overland and overseas supply routes. Sometimes the former need to be redone, sometimes the latter, and sometimes both.

Player Interface
This is done except for 8 bugs related to maintaining the Detailed Map in pristine condition and some new ones found by the new beta testers (who have different computer configurations).

Internet - NetPlay
The first part of the month I spent on NetPlay, getting the bug count for that mode of play down to 5. Of course then Rob was able to test more phases of the game, thereby driving the count back up. At least those were newly discovered bugs. Some of my changes for NetPlay did cause bugs to appear in Head-to-head play during setup. I haven’t looked into those yet.

PBEM
Nothing new.

Artificial Intelligence (AI)
Nothing new.

Player’s Manual and Rules as Coded (RAC)
Getting the final edits done and sending these two documents off to Final Layout has been dragging on for various reasons.

Tutorials and Training Videos
The Tutorials are done.

The training videos remain roughly 2/3rds done. I need to re-record the 6th and create the last three: 10th, 11th, and 12th. The 6th (main form and drop down menus) needs redoing because I have seriously modified some forms since I recorded that video in December of 2009. The last 3 training videos are for naval movement, naval combat, and production/politics (e.g., declarations of war, neutrality pacts, and aligning minors).

Historical Video, Music, and Sound Effects
I have all the files I need as WAV files. What’s needed is for me to insert calls into the sequence of play to activate these 3 glitz elements. I really wanted to get to inserting the sound effects last month, but was unable to find the time - same story as last month.

Web Site
Nothing new.

Marketing
Nothing new.



Below is my current analysis of where in the sequence of play supply should be recalculated. Each variable is a flag (True/False) that is set to True under the listed circumstances and then tested when the Supply Recalculation routine executes. If it is False, sections of the recalculations can be skipped - since nothing has changed since the last time those calculations were executed.

// SupplyExecutedOnce:
Set to True when supply is calculated from scratch (occurs just once).

// SupplyUpToDate:
Set to True when SupplyOnLandChanged, SupplyAtSeaChanged, or SupplyAtWarChanged is True.
Weather - if the weather changes in any weather zone.

// SupplyUpdateForUnit:
Set to True when an individual unit needs its supply updated (e.g., after it has moved).

// SupplyUpdateForStack:
Set to True when a stack needs its supply updated (e.g., after a naval stack returns to port).

// SupplyOnLandChanged:
Set to True when hex control or ZOCs into enemy hexes change.
Setup at start of game - ZOCs into hexes adjacent to placement hex may change.
Setup aligned minor - ZOCs into hexes adjacent to placement hex may change.
Setup of reserves - ZOCs into hexes adjacent to placement hex may change.
Reinforcements - ZOCs into hexes adjacent to placement hex may change.
Naval movement - ZOCs into hexes adjacent to hex in which a land unit loads/unloads may change.
Carpet bombing - ZOCs into hexes adjacent to target hex may change.
Air transport - ZOCs into hexes adjacent to hex in which a land unit loads/unloads may change.
Unload land unit - ZOCs into hexes adjacent to arrival hex may change.
Invasion - control of landing hex may change.
Paradrop - ZOCs into hexes adjacent to departure hex and/or control of landing hex may change.
Notional - prior to include the notional decision to compute odds ratio.
Land movement - ZOCs into hexes adjacent to starting and/or stopping hex and control of hexes in path may change.
Land combat - ZOCs into hex of destroyed unit and hexes adjacent thereto may change.
Retreat - ZOCs into hexes adjacent to starting and/or stopping hex may change.
Advance after combat - ZOCs into hexes adjacent to starting and/or stopping hex and control of hexes in path may change.
Air rebase - supply of the air unit in the arrival hex undetermined.
Partisans - control of arrival hex may change.
Return to base - ZOCs into hexes adjacent to arrival hex may change; supply of the units in the arrival hex undetermined.
Breakdown - ZOCs into hexes adjacent to unit's hex may change.
Reform - ZOCs into hexes adjacent to unit's hex may change.

// SupplyAtSeaChanged:
Set to True when a major power's ability to use a sea area changes.
Setup at start of game - control of sea area in which a unit is placed may change.
Naval movement - control of sea area in which a unit arrives/departs may change.
Naval combat - control of a sea area in which a unit departs may change.
Return to base - control of a sea area in which a unit departs may change.

// SupplyAtWarChanged:
Set to True when control of large blocks of territory change.
Declaration of war.
Claim of minor country territory.
Alignment of a minor country.
US Entry - control of a minor country territory may change.
Ukraine.
Conquest.
Mutual peace.
Surrender.
Liberation.
Declaration of Vichy France.
Collapse of Vichy France.


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Steve

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RE: When? - 5/2/2013 5:47:30 AM   
CrusssDaddy

 

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Right on schedule.

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Post #: 3217
RE: When? - 5/3/2013 9:42:44 PM   
bo

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CrusssDaddy

Right on schedule.


Your lurking Cruss. Probably have your check already made out to Matrix

Bo



< Message edited by bo -- 5/3/2013 9:43:33 PM >

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Post #: 3218
RE: When? - 5/4/2013 2:23:38 PM   
marklv

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CrusssDaddy

Right on schedule.


Right on schedule for a Christmas 2015 release, me thinks. I hope it's worth the wait.

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Post #: 3219
RE: When? - 5/14/2013 6:33:25 PM   
Steely Glint


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quote:

Right on schedule for a Christmas 2015 release, me thinks. I hope it's worth the wait.


No matter how good it is it won't be. No game on earth is worth this kind of wait.

Seven years ago I really wanted this game, but it's been so long that I just don't care any more.

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RE: When? - 5/15/2013 5:12:11 PM   
von altair


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Once in while I come here and check "when". At this rate, we are going to die in old age while waiting!

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"Do you not know, my son, with how little wisdom the world is governed?"

-Axel Oxenstierna

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Post #: 3221
RE: When? - 5/17/2013 2:29:10 PM   
Blorsh


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Steely Glint


quote:

Right on schedule for a Christmas 2015 release, me thinks. I hope it's worth the wait.


No matter how good it is it won't be. No game on earth is worth this kind of wait.

Seven years ago I really wanted this game, but it's been so long that I just don't care any more.


I think the same.

We are waiting more yeras for MWIF than years was Hitler Fürehr of The Third Reich.

(in reply to Steely Glint)
Post #: 3222
RE: When? - 5/19/2013 7:13:38 PM   
bo

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Blorsh


quote:

ORIGINAL: Steely Glint


quote:

Right on schedule for a Christmas 2015 release, me thinks. I hope it's worth the wait.


No matter how good it is it won't be. No game on earth is worth this kind of wait.

Seven years ago I really wanted this game, but it's been so long that I just don't care any more.


I think the same.

We are waiting more yeras for MWIF than years was Hitler Fürehr of The Third Reich.


Thank the lord Blorsh that you have only posted 17 times because if they were like this post I would need to take a lorazapan or maybe 2 of them reading your post , how about spell checking once in a while

Bo

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Post #: 3223
RE: When? - 5/19/2013 7:18:37 PM   
bo

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: von altair

Once in while I come here and check "when". At this rate, we are going to die in old age while waiting!


You joined in 2004 von altair, you need to go to a patience basic training camp.
Hang in there sir.

Bo

(in reply to von altair)
Post #: 3224
RE: When? - 6/2/2013 3:50:05 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
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June 1, 2013 Status Report for Matrix Games’ MWIF Forum

Accomplishments of May 2013

Hardware and Software
The open items for Theme Engine remain: minimizing the game generates a Mad Except error, and so does trying to display detailed listings of file directories (i.e., the dates and stuff) when opening or saving a file. There is now a new one (it occurs sporadically when running under Windows XP) having to do with “rolling up a form”; rolling up a form minimizes the form to the size of the form’s top bar.

Beta Testing
In May I released 7 new versions to the beta testers: 10.03.04 (25 fixes - 5 made in May), 10.03.05 (2 fixes), 10.03.06 (9 fixes), 10.03.07 (20 fixes), 10.04.00 (13 fixes), 10.04.01 (12 fixes), and 10.04.02 (10 fixes). The number of new versions is back to my norm. But the fixes (71) are still well below my average (116). Debugging supply takes a lot of time. Another major time destroyer was fixing a couple of overwriting memory bugs.

Overwriting memory is the nastiest bug there is. The program scribbles on its own code causing the code to execute in a bizarre manner. However, it isn’t immediately obvious that the program has done this. Instead, the program runs fine for a while until the problem manifests itself later in the program’s execution, causing code that previously had run perfectly (sometimes for years) to malfunction. So the programmer (me) spends days looking for a bug in the wrong place. Only after absolutely convincing myself that the code where the problem occurs is fine, do I consider the possibility of overwriting memory (OM) having occurred. Proving that OM is the problem takes time and the only real way to locate an OM bug is to do a binary search using what I call canary code. If the canary code fails, then OM has occurred. If the canary code still works, then the OM bug happens later. Typically it takes a lot of dead canaries before the problem can be fault isolated. Mercifully, once the bug is located, the necessary code modification usually requires changing only 1 or 2 lines of code. Prior to the two OM bugs in May, I only had one in the previous 8 years I‘ve been working on MWIF.

Below is the summary of my Master Task List (MTL) as of June 1st. My task list count stands at 80, down from 84 at the start of the month. I am still more concerned about NetPlay than the other bugs. The latter dropped to 63 (from last month’s count of 72). I’m still spending too much time dealing with bugs caused by my rewrite of supply. The only solution is to keep hammering away at them one by one; right now there are 6 of the little suckers left.

None of the other bugs in the sequence of play and non-sequence of play is of much concern to me. For instance, I fixed 10 of them in one day towards the end of May. What happened was that the beta testers had gotten my bug list count over 100, which annoyed me no end. So I spent a couple days knocking off a bunch of easy ones.

NetPlay [17] 1589, {1594, 1859}, 1785, 1826, 1827, 1911, 1912, 1913, 1914, 1915, 1916, 1921, 1932, 1933, 1934, 1935, 1936

Sequence of Play [45]
Supply [6]: 1070, 1947, 1956, 1960, 1966, 1969
Setup Phases [1]: {1900, 1944}
Air Missions [3]: 1611, 1890, 1925
Naval Combat [11]: {874, 1531}, 1566, 1599, 1701, 1724, 1815, 1847, 1868, 1869, 1872, 1899
Reorganization [3]: 1855, 1856, 1896
Production Planning [13]: 1107, {847, 961, 1347}, 326, 1644, 1671, 1825, 1862, 1863, 1864, 1871, 1893, 1895, 1973
Search Seizure [1]: 409
Reform Units [1]: 1851
Vichy [2]: 1803, 1811
Liberation [2]: 891, 1919
Overstacked Digression [1]: 1931
Final Reorganization [1]: 1733

Non-sequence of Play [18]
Detailed Map [5]: 1188, 142, 769,140, 1501
Player Interface [3]: 1901, 1920, 1922
Game Save/Restore [7]: 695, 517, 110, 118, 1778, 1907, 1924
Theme Engine [3]: {1050, 568}, {1513, 1467, 966, 1455, 1573, 1655}, 1928


Saved Games
Done, except for 7 bugs.

Map, Units, and Scenarios
As I get additional unit writeups I add them to the collection.

Optional Rules
Nothing new.

Game Engine
There are ~80 places in the sequence of play where supply is recalculated. At this point I have deleted all the CWIF code concerning supply. For debugging purposes, I installed a temporary message bar to the bottom of the Main form to report the amount of time spent in each of the 23 steps for recalculating supply. In many situations it takes less than 10 milliseconds total. In most it takes less than 100. Even 1000 milliseconds is acceptable when major changes have occurred. For example, when the weather changes for the worst and numerous units are now OOS (out-of-supply).

Simple moves in friendly territory are very fast, since supply only needs to be recalculated for the moving unit. Rail moves, air units returning to base, and most land moves are in this category. Moves into and out of the front line sometimes cause changes in supply because of enemy ZOCs. Moving HQs always has more effects on supply, since the units that the HQ had been supplying now need to find a new source of supply, even if it is just the same HQ in a different hex.

Changing control of a hex, by having a land unit move through enemy territory, or when a minor country joins the war, usually affects just half the units on each side. The side gaining control of new hexes might have previously OOS units now in-supply. The side losing control of hexes might have some of its previously in-supply units OOS. The program logic therefore does not reassess supply for all the units on the map, just those whose supply might have changed. Similar logic applies when units move into and out of sea areas. One side might have previously OOS units now capable of finding supply, while the other side has previously in-supply units now OOS.

From the short discussion on supply above, I think it should be obvious why a lot of code is involved. I have ~20 flags that get set as units move into and out of hexes/sea areas. Then once the units have reached their destination (which may be off-map), I run the 23 step routine to recalculate supply, which executes different steps depending on which flags have been set. The payoff for all this effort is that supply updates quickly and dynamically as units are moved onto, around, and off the map.

Player Interface
This is done except for 5 bugs related to maintaining the beauty of the Detailed Map and 3 found by the new beta testers concerning different monitor configurations.

Internet - NetPlay
I did virtually no work on this in May - very aggravating. I fixed a few tangential items, but none of the serious stuff. It is pointless to work on NetPlay if the game has serious bugs in the sequence of play when running in solitaire mode.

PBEM
Nothing new.

Artificial Intelligence (AI)
Nothing new.

Player’s Manual and Rules as Coded (RAC)
All printed materials are in Final Layout. I’ve seen PDFs of both RAC and the Players Manual, but both of them lack graphics. That’s not too bad for RAC, which only has 20 or so figures. But the Players Manual has 270+ figures, so without them the PDF is really difficult to proof read. The attached graphic is a collage of some of the screenshots in the Players Manual section 7, which describes the sequence of play.

Tutorials and Training Videos
The Tutorials are done. Nothing new on completing the training videos.

Historical Video, Music, and Sound Effects
Nothing new.

Web Site
Nothing new.

Marketing
Nothing new.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

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Post #: 3225
RE: Proper Place? - 6/2/2013 4:27:06 PM   
Lingering Frey

 

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Just my 2 cents on the question of "when" in reaction to a couple of recent posts.

STOP "waiting" for the game. You shouldn't be waiting. If you think it is "not worth the length of waiting", you would have been better off not knowing it was in development. If it ever releases, be happy and surprised by it when it does. If you want to play WiF on a computer with friends (sadly, no AI) when it comes out and you have the money to spare, buy the program.

To put it in perspective, I am absolutely CERTAIN that there is some game (not WiF, just SOME game in the future...maybe the 4th version of Total War:Rome) that I will desperately want to play that will end up being released in 2030. I don't know what that game might be, but I'm sure there will be some game released that year that I will want to play. Should I "lose interest" in it because I am going to have to wait 17 years to play it?

(in reply to flipperwasirish)
Post #: 3226
RE: Proper Place? - 6/2/2013 9:18:54 PM   
heyhellowhatsnew


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Release a public beta.

(in reply to Lingering Frey)
Post #: 3227
RE: Proper Place? - 6/2/2013 10:07:07 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: heyhellowhatsnew

Release a public beta.

Why?

_____________________________

Steve

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Post #: 3228
RE: Proper Place? - 6/2/2013 10:34:11 PM   
genshed62

 

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Those of us lowly fans would rather play a buggy version and help with the development rather than wait for perfection. I missed the beta test sign up time limit so yeah i would love an open beta. I actively participate with Slitherene betas

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 3229
RE: Proper Place? - 6/3/2013 3:31:17 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: genshed62

Those of us lowly fans would rather play a buggy version and help with the development rather than wait for perfection. I missed the beta test sign up time limit so yeah i would love an open beta. I actively participate with Slitherene betas

But that wouldn't really help get the game done any faster.

It takes part of my time just to read through the bug reports from the beta testers and understand what they are reporting. If I think the report is for a bug that actually exists, then I investigate - and oftentimes I find it is not a bug. For those bugs that pass my filters, there is the task of writing it up clearly so I bring the problem into focus.

The game is enormous in so many ways (scenarios, optional rules, phases, unit types, size of the map, number of turns, number of countries, and rules - both general and exceptions to general rules). Stating explicitly what is wrong under what circumstances is crucial for fixing a problem. I also need to know the version of the game, and for some of the bugs, the player's hardware and software configurations.

Having dozens, or hundreds, of other players reporting things in their own words and style would be overwhelming. I estimate that thousands of people are reading my monthly reports, so if only 10% of them started testing a free beta, the resulting bug reports for 3 or 4 well known existing bugs would be chaos on wheels.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to genshed62)
Post #: 3230
RE: Proper Place? - 6/3/2013 4:30:29 PM   
CrusssDaddy

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets


I estimate that thousands of people are reading my monthly reports,


HAHAHA RU SIRIUS? That is an absurd embellishment. Or your ability to estimate is hopelessly deficient. Which is more likely? Ah, it can also be both...

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 3231
RE: Proper Place? - 6/3/2013 7:15:11 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 17934
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CrusssDaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets


I estimate that thousands of people are reading my monthly reports,


HAHAHA RU SIRIUS? That is an absurd embellishment. Or your ability to estimate is hopelessly deficient. Which is more likely? Ah, it can also be both...


Well you see, every month I record the number of hits to the When and Monthly report threads. So my comment is based on facts I have gathered over the past 6+ years.

And your comment is based on ....?

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to CrusssDaddy)
Post #: 3232
RE: Proper Place? - 6/3/2013 8:26:37 PM   
CrusssDaddy

 

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"Number of hits" does not equal "Number of people." You know this. I give you 15-20 hits a month and I'm not that very active. My comment is based on common sense and a precisely tuned bull$hit detector.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 3233
RE: Proper Place? - 6/3/2013 8:32:00 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 16030
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: CrusssDaddy

"Number of hits" does not equal "Number of people." You know this. I give you 15-20 hits a month and I'm not that very active. My comment is based on common sense and a precisely tuned bull$hit detector.

warspite1

So since the May report there have been 8 new posts - but you visit 15-20 times??? What are you hoping the posts magically change since last reading or do you have to read slowly and in small doses?

As for the finely tuned BS detector - I have no doubt you have one and that it is indeed finely tuned - after use on yourself, the original BSer...


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty - Horatio Nelson 1805.




(in reply to CrusssDaddy)
Post #: 3234
RE: Proper Place? - 6/3/2013 8:37:10 PM   
CrusssDaddy

 

Posts: 217
Joined: 8/6/2004
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I know, the utter collapse of the active posting community is the obvious clue that "thousands" of readers is an absurd assertion -- finally we agree on something!

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 3235
RE: Proper Place? - 6/3/2013 9:07:53 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 16030
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: CrusssDaddy

I know, the utter collapse of the active posting community is the obvious clue that "thousands" of readers is an absurd assertion -- finally we agree on something!

warspite1

You do know that not everyone that visits posts yeah? You are confusing posts with hits. But I'm not going to get into an argument over something you already know - but do not want to admit because it doesn't suit your purpose.

Right know there have been 536,964 hits to the when thread, and 33,973 to the Monthly Reports thread. Lets see where we are this time next month i.e. one day after Steve's July post.

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty - Horatio Nelson 1805.




(in reply to CrusssDaddy)
Post #: 3236
RE: Proper Place? - 6/3/2013 9:16:10 PM   
CrusssDaddy

 

Posts: 217
Joined: 8/6/2004
Status: offline
Posts do not equal unique visitors do not equal hits, yep we should all understand that. Intuitively, does "thousands of people" sound correct to you? Thousands of hits yes, but we've already established the irrelevancy of hits to this discussion.

Hopefully this trifle can be resolved so we can return to the crucial issue of German partisans, which resolution of certainly is the sole remaining item holding up release.

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 3237
RE: Proper Place? - 6/3/2013 9:28:38 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 16030
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: CrusssDaddy

Posts do not equal unique visitors do not equal hits, yep we should all understand that. Intuitively, does "thousands of people" sound correct to you? Thousands of hits yes, but we've already established the irrelevancy of hits to this discussion.

Hopefully this trifle can be resolved so we can return to the crucial issue of German partisans, which resolution of certainly is the sole remaining item holding up release.

warspite1

I have no idea whether the visitor numbers to this site have been growing or declining over the years. For every old name I no longer see, there are new arrivals. What the net effect is I cannot say, although when I asked "where the old crowd" was on the forum a while back, almost all the old names confirmed they were still around, checking in from time to time, even if no longer particularly active.

One thing I can say with absolute certainty is that most people who have given up on the project or have just gone off and done something else, will return when its done.

And to those that have taken that route, I think it far more mature to decide to simply walk away than to lamely try and childishly heckle from the stands like some people - a course of action which is neither productive nor grown-up, but lazy and boorish.

BTW, and as you no doubt know, the "issue" of German partisans is not in anyway holding up the game because they are not in the game.


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty - Horatio Nelson 1805.




(in reply to CrusssDaddy)
Post #: 3238
RE: Proper Place? - 6/3/2013 9:35:38 PM   
CrusssDaddy

 

Posts: 217
Joined: 8/6/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

BTW, and as you no doubt know, the "issue" of German partisans is not in anyway holding up the game because they are not in the game.



Oh Lord, I guess I should have included smilies... I hope the thousands of people reading this are not likewise confused.


< Message edited by CrusssDaddy -- 6/3/2013 9:36:58 PM >

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 3239
RE: Proper Place? - 6/3/2013 9:48:38 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 16030
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: CrusssDaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

BTW, and as you no doubt know, the "issue" of German partisans is not in anyway holding up the game because they are not in the game.



Oh Lord, I guess I should have included smilies... I hope the thousands of people reading this are not likewise confused.

warspite1

Oh I see..... you were being sarcastic?? Well whooda thunk it?

You know some people think you are crass, boorish, pathetic, childish and stupid, but......

[thousands of readers] - "finish the sentence warspite1"

No, that's it - nothing more to add .

Bye CrusssDaddy.


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty - Horatio Nelson 1805.




(in reply to CrusssDaddy)
Post #: 3240
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