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Comprehensive Port bombing testing WitP v1.5 (98 bombers vs. warships and cargo ships)...

 
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Comprehensive Port bombing testing WitP v1.5 (98 bomber... - 5/7/2005 4:28:10 PM   
Apollo11


Posts: 22643
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline
Hi all,

As promised here are new WitP v1.5 test results. These new tests are continuation of my old comprehensive tests (made in WitP v1.4) - you can find them here:

http://www.matrixgames.com/default.asp?URL=http%3A//www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp%3Fm%3D763293%26mpage%3D1


Description:

I created brand new custom scenario for this testing.

This scenarios are "Leo TEST Scenario #116.zip" (for day) and "Leo TEST Scenario #117.zip" (for night) - you can find them here:

http://www.matrixgames.com/default.asp?URL=http%3A//www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp%3Fm%3D856273

There are only 3 islands present: Marcus Island, Wake Island and Midway. Marcus Island is IJN base while Midway is USN base. For this test Wake Island is made Japanese base with both Port and Airbase (and SPS) of 6.

There are 6 Japanese LCU's (1x 1st Army HQ + 5x AA Rgt) at Wake Island together with ships in port.

Weather is always clear.

FoW is OFF.

Two B-29's groups have their default leaders (50's/60's ratings) while their EXP is set to 70 and morale to 90.

The B-29's have to fly 14 HEXes from Midway to Wake Island.

The B-29's attack from 10000ft.

In Japanese held port there are 10x AO, 10x TK and 30x AP ships (all sizes and shapes).

5 consecutive runs of scenario in day (i.e. daytime bombings):


********************************************************************************

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/01/42

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wake Island , at 82,63


Allied aircraft
B-29 Superfortress x 84


Allied aircraft losses
B-29 Superfortress: 1 destroyed, 17 damaged

Japanese Ships
AO Notoro, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AK Aden Maru, Bomb hits 2
AK Amagisan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AK Asahisan Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Aratama Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Aiyo Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Arabia Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
TK Akatsuki Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Anyo Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Arima Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
TK Akebono Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Atuta Maru, Bomb hits 1
TK Akatuki Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AK Akiura Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Arizona Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Arizana Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Amatsu Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AK Akita Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Azuma Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Shioya, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Astuga Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Arugun Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Eiho Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Naruto, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Anrugu Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AK Akibasan Maru, Bomb hits 1
AK Aobasan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Ondo, Bomb hits 1
AP Argentina Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Akashisan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AK Akagisan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

Japanese ground losses:
365 casualties reported
Guns lost 15

Port hits 5
Port fuel hits 5
Port supply hits 2

Aircraft Attacking:
35 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
20 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
11 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
6 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
4 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
1 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet

********************************************************************************

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/01/42

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wake Island , at 82,63


Allied aircraft
B-29 Superfortress x 89


Allied aircraft losses
B-29 Superfortress: 9 damaged

Japanese Ships
TK Akebono Maru, Bomb hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
AK Asahisan Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AP Ayaha Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AK Amagisan Maru, Bomb hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
AK Akita Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AP Anyo Maru, Bomb hits 4, on fire
AP Astuga Maru, Bomb hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
TK Akatsuki Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire
TK Choran Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Achou Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AK Akiura Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AP Arizana Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Aratama Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
TK Fujisan Maru, Bomb hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
AK Akibasan Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AP Atuta Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AO Tsurumi, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AP Argentina Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Akashisan Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
TK Azuma Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Eiho Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AK Akagisan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Arugun Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Africa Maru, Bomb hits 1
AK Aobasan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Shiretoko, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Arabia Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
TK Amatsu Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Aiyo Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Arima Maru, Bomb hits 1
AK Aden Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AK Akagi Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Asama Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AO Shioya, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Aikoku Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Sunosaki, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Takasaki, Bomb hits 1
AO Ondo, Bomb hits 1
TK Akatuki Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Arizona Maru, Bomb hits 1

Japanese ground losses:
437 casualties reported
Guns lost 20

Port hits 7
Port fuel hits 4
Port supply hits 2

Aircraft Attacking:
36 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
15 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
18 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
9 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
2 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet

********************************************************************************

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/01/42

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wake Island , at 82,63


Allied aircraft
B-29 Superfortress x 88


Allied aircraft losses
B-29 Superfortress: 20 damaged

Japanese Ships
AP Anzan Maru, Bomb hits 5, on fire
AP Asama Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AO Shiretoko, Bomb hits 1
TK Akebono Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire
AP Aikoku Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire
AO Notoro, Bomb hits 5, on fire, heavy damage
AP Aratama Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire
TK Choran Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AP Aki Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire
AP Achou Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AO Sata, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AP Africa Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire
TK Akatsuki Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Atuta Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Tsurumi, Bomb hits 3, on fire
AP Argentina Maru, Bomb hits 5, on fire
TK Amatsu Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Anyo Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire
TK Eiyo Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Astuga Maru, Bomb hits 1
AK Akagi Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Anrugu Maru, Bomb hits 1
AK Asahisan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Takasaki, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
TK Akatuki Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
TK Fujisan Maru, Bomb hits 1
AK Akiura Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AK Akasisan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Aiyo Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AK Amagisan Maru, Bomb hits 1
AK Akibasan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Shiriya, Bomb hits 1
TK Arima Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Sunosaki, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AK Aobasan Maru, Bomb hits 1

Japanese ground losses:
670 casualties reported
Guns lost 28

Port hits 11
Port fuel hits 5
Port supply hits 3

Aircraft Attacking:
36 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
27 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
13 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
6 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet

********************************************************************************

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/01/42

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wake Island , at 82,63


Allied aircraft
B-29 Superfortress x 85


Allied aircraft losses
B-29 Superfortress: 1 destroyed, 15 damaged

Japanese Ships
AP Aiyo Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Arizona Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AP Arugun Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Atsuta Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AP Akashisan Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
TK Akatuki Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AK Amagisan Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AK Akagi Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Azuma Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AO Shiretoko, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AO Shioya, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AP Arabia Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AK Asahisan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Anzan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Aikoku Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Argentina Maru, Bomb hits 2
TK Choran Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AP Ayaha Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
TK Arima Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Eiyo Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AK Akibasan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Anrugu Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AO Shiriya, Bomb hits 1
AP Africa Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
TK Akebono Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AO Tsurumi, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Aratama Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Anyo Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Aki Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Takasaki, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Achou Maru, Bomb hits 1
AO Notoro, Bomb hits 1
AP Asama Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Atuta Maru, Bomb hits 1

Japanese ground losses:
265 casualties reported
Guns lost 13

Port hits 8
Port fuel hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
27 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
19 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
15 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
8 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
6 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet

********************************************************************************

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/01/42

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wake Island , at 82,63


Allied aircraft
B-29 Superfortress x 83


Allied aircraft losses
B-29 Superfortress: 1 destroyed, 13 damaged

Japanese Ships
AP Atsuta Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Atuta Maru, Bomb hits 1
TK Akebono Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Eiyo Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Shioya, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
TK Eiho Maru, Bomb hits 2
AP Aki Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
TK Akatuki Maru, Bomb hits 1
AK Aden Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AO Notoro, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AK Akasisan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AK Akibasan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Anrugu Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AO Naruto, Bomb hits 1
AP Arugun Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Arizona Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AO Ondo, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Shiretoko, Bomb hits 1
AK Akiura Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AO Shiriya, Bomb hits 2, on fire
TK Choran Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Africa Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Achou Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Arizana Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Akashisan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Anzan Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AO Sunosaki, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AK Akagisan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire

Japanese ground losses:
399 casualties reported
Guns lost 19

Port hits 5
Port fuel hits 2
Port supply hits 3

Aircraft Attacking:
27 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
8 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
10 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
6 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
5 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
13 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
10 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet

********************************************************************************


1 run of scenario in day (i.e. night bombings) for comparison only:

********************************************************************************

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/02/42

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Wake Island , at 82,63


Allied aircraft
B-29 Superfortress x 54


Allied aircraft losses
B-29 Superfortress: 3 damaged

Japanese Ships
AK Akita Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Shioya, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Anyo Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire

Japanese ground losses:
77 casualties reported
Guns lost 6

Port hits 1
Port supply hits 2

Aircraft Attacking:
27 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
27 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet

********************************************************************************

Discussion:

The devastation of ships in port is enormous... it's like shooting duck in a bathtub.. the only (possibly) good thing is that night time attack produced "only" 3 hits...


Note that Japanese AAA units consist of:

Heavy AA Rgt (5 units used):

105mm AA Gun x12
75mm AA Gun x12
13 mm AAMG (2) x 8


Thus there were (in total):

105mm AA Gun x60
75mm AA Gun x60
13 mm AAMG (2) x40

This is _TREMENDOUS_ number of muzzle power and large and relatively slow bombers flying at 10000 ft (= 3000 m = 3 km) should be easy easy targets...



Leo "Apollo11"


_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE
Post #: 1
RE: Comprehensive Port bombing testing WitP v1.5 (98 bo... - 5/7/2005 4:47:52 PM   
Apollo11


Posts: 22643
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline
Hi all,

The B-17 instead of B-29 this time.


Description:

I created brand new custom scenario for this testing.

This scenarios are "Leo TEST Scenario #116.zip" (for day) and "Leo TEST Scenario #117.zip" (for night) - you can find them here:

http://www.matrixgames.com/default.asp?URL=http%3A//www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp%3Fm%3D856273

Then I loaded WitP DataBase Editor and changed 444th and 462nd US Army airgroup aircraft in "AirGroup" tab from 201 - "B-29 Superfortress" to 195 - "B-17G fortress".

After that I went to "Aircraft" tab and changed endurance of "B-17G fortress" to 1000 (in order for them to reach target).

There are only 3 islands present: Marcus Island, Wake Island and Midway. Marcus Island is IJN base while Midway is USN base. For this test Wake Island is made Japanese base with both Port and Airbase (and SPS) of 6.

There are 6 Japanese LCU's (1x 1st Army HQ + 5x AA Rgt) at Wake Island together with ships in port.

Weather is always clear.

FoW is OFF.

Two B-17G's groups have their default leaders (50's/60's ratings) while their EXP is set to 70 and morale to 90.

The B-17G's have to fly 14 HEXes from Midway to Wake Island.

The B-17G's attack from 10000ft.

In Japanese held port there are 10x AO, 10x TK and 30x AP ships (all sizes and shapes).


5 consecutive runs of scenario in day (i.e. daytime bombings):


********************************************************************************

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/01/42

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wake Island , at 82,63


Allied aircraft
B-17G Fortress x 96


Allied aircraft losses
B-17G Fortress: 1 destroyed, 30 damaged

Japanese Ships
AK Akagisan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Asama Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Aiyo Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AO Takasaki, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AP Argentina Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AO Naruto, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Atuta Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AK Akita Maru, Bomb hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
AP Atsuta Maru, Bomb hits 1
AK Akibasan Maru, Bomb hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
TK Amatsu Maru, Bomb hits 1
AK Aden Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire
AP Aratama Maru, Bomb hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
AP Arugun Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AK Asahisan Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AK Amagisan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Akatuki Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Anzan Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AO Notoro, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Aikoku Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Aki Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Arizona Maru, Bomb hits 1
AO Shiretoko, Bomb hits 1
TK Eiho Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Akebono Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Ayaha Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Arabia Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AK Akasisan Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
TK Fujisan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Anrugu Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AO Shiriya, Bomb hits 1

Japanese ground losses:
516 casualties reported
Guns lost 19

Port hits 9
Port fuel hits 3
Port supply hits 5

Aircraft Attacking:
26 x B-17G Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
27 x B-17G Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
11 x B-17G Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
8 x B-17G Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
13 x B-17G Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
10 x B-17G Fortress bombing at 10000 feet

********************************************************************************

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/01/42

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wake Island , at 82,63


Allied aircraft
B-17G Fortress x 94


Allied aircraft losses
B-17G Fortress: 19 damaged

Japanese Ships
TK Amatsu Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AK Aden Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Asama Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
TK Azuma Maru, Bomb hits 1
AK Amagisan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Anrugu Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Anyo Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AK Aobasan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Achou Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AP Arabia Maru, Bomb hits 1
AK Akagi Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Aikoku Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AP Atuta Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Akebono Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Arima Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Tsurumi, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Aratama Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Anzan Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Akashisan Maru, Bomb hits 1
AO Ondo, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Naruto, Bomb hits 1
AO Takasaki, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Eiho Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire

Japanese ground losses:
261 casualties reported
Guns lost 14

Port hits 5
Port fuel hits 4
Port supply hits 4

Aircraft Attacking:
48 x B-17G Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
36 x B-17G Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
6 x B-17G Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
4 x B-17G Fortress bombing at 10000 feet

********************************************************************************

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/01/42

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wake Island , at 82,63


Allied aircraft
B-17G Fortress x 94


Allied aircraft losses
B-17G Fortress: 26 damaged

Japanese Ships
AO Sata, Bomb hits 1
TK Akebono Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Asama Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Anyo Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Argentina Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Aikoku Maru, Bomb hits 1
AK Akibasan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Achou Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Eiho Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AK Akita Maru, Bomb hits 1
TK Choran Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Shiriya, Bomb hits 1
AK Asahisan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Atsuta Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Tsurumi, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Aki Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AK Amagisan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AK Akasisan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Takasaki, Bomb hits 1, on fire

Japanese ground losses:
214 casualties reported
Guns lost 11

Port hits 1
Port fuel hits 3
Port supply hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
48 x B-17G Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
32 x B-17G Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
9 x B-17G Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
5 x B-17G Fortress bombing at 10000 feet

********************************************************************************

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/01/42

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wake Island , at 82,63


Allied aircraft
B-17G Fortress x 71


Allied aircraft losses
B-17G Fortress: 10 damaged

Japanese Ships
AO Tsurumi, Bomb hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
TK Fujisan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AK Asahisan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Eiho Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AK Amagisan Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Asama Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Sata, Bomb hits 1
TK Akebono Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AO Shioya, Bomb hits 5, on fire, heavy damage
AK Akasisan Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AK Akibasan Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AP Africa Maru, Bomb hits 5, on fire, heavy damage
AP Aikoku Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Astuga Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Aki Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Argentina Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Takasaki, Bomb hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
AP Aiyo Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AK Aobasan Maru, Bomb hits 1
TK Akatuki Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AK Akagi Maru, Bomb hits 2
AK Akita Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Ondo, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Aratama Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AP Ayaha Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
TK Azuma Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Akashisan Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Arugun Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Akatsuki Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AK Akiura Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Arizana Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Shiretoko, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Anrugu Maru, Bomb hits 1
TK Eiyo Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire

Japanese ground losses:
407 casualties reported
Guns lost 18

Port hits 5
Port supply hits 4

Aircraft Attacking:
27 x B-17G Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
36 x B-17G Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
5 x B-17G Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-17G Fortress bombing at 10000 feet

********************************************************************************

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/01/42

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wake Island , at 82,63


Allied aircraft
B-17G Fortress x 93


Allied aircraft losses
B-17G Fortress: 3 destroyed, 20 damaged

Japanese Ships
AP Anyo Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
TK Choran Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
TK Azuma Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
TK Akatuki Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire
AP Arugun Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AK Akagi Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Arabia Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Achou Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AK Akibasan Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AP Ayaha Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AP Arizana Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AP Atsuta Maru, Bomb hits 6, on fire, heavy damage
AP Arizona Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AK Akita Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
TK Eiho Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
TK Akebono Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Notoro, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Naruto, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Shiretoko, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Asama Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Akashisan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Africa Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
TK Fujisan Maru, Bomb hits 1
AK Akasisan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AK Akiura Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Argentina Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire
AO Shiriya, Bomb hits 2, on fire
TK Amatsu Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Atuta Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Aki Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Anrugu Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Sata, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Astuga Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AK Aden Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire

Japanese ground losses:
459 casualties reported
Guns lost 15

Port hits 7
Port fuel hits 1
Port supply hits 3

Aircraft Attacking:
23 x B-17G Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
30 x B-17G Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
5 x B-17G Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
24 x B-17G Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
8 x B-17G Fortress bombing at 10000 feet

********************************************************************************


1 run of scenario in day (i.e. night bombings) for comparison only:

********************************************************************************

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/02/42

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Wake Island , at 82,63


Allied aircraft
B-17G Fortress x 63


Allied aircraft losses
B-17G Fortress: 11 damaged

Japanese Ships
AP Astuga Maru, Bomb hits 1
AK Akagisan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AP Achou Maru, Bomb hits 1

Japanese ground losses:
42 casualties reported
Guns lost 2

Aircraft Attacking:
27 x B-17G Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
36 x B-17G Fortress bombing at 10000 feet

********************************************************************************


Discussion:

Like with B-29's the B-17G-s brought similar (i.e. _BIG_) devastation to ships... all my comments I did in case of B-29's are again applicable here...

Please note that B-29 carries 40x 500 lb bombs while B-17G carries 12x 500 lb bombs.


Leo "Apollo11"


_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to Apollo11)
Post #: 2
RE: Comprehensive Port bombing testing WitP v1.5 (98 bo... - 5/7/2005 4:58:55 PM   
Apollo11


Posts: 22643
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline
Hi all,

The B-25 instead of B-29 this time.


Description:

I created brand new custom scenario for this testing.

This scenarios are "Leo TEST Scenario #116.zip" (for day) and "Leo TEST Scenario #117.zip" (for night) - you can find them here:

http://www.matrixgames.com/default.asp?URL=http%3A//www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp%3Fm%3D856273

Then I loaded WitP DataBase Editor and changed 444th and 462nd US Army airgroup aircraft in "AirGroup" tab from 201 - "B-29 Superfortress" to 185 - "B-25C Mitchell".

After that I went to "Aircraft" tab and changed endurance of "B-25C Mitchell" to 1000 (in order for them to reach target).

There are only 3 islands present: Marcus Island, Wake Island and Midway. Marcus Island is IJN base while Midway is USN base. For this test Wake Island is made Japanese base with both Port and Airbase (and SPS) of 6.

There are 6 Japanese LCU's (1x 1st Army HQ + 5x AA Rgt) at Wake Island together with ships in port.

Weather is always clear.

FoW is OFF.

Two B-25C's groups have their default leaders (50's/60's ratings) while their EXP is set to 70 and morale to 90.

The B-25C's have to fly 14 HEXes from Midway to Wake Island.

The B-25C's attack from 10000ft.

In Japanese held port there are 10x AO, 10x TK and 30x AP ships (all sizes and shapes).


5 consecutive runs of scenario in day (i.e. daytime bombings):


********************************************************************************

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/01/42

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wake Island , at 82,63


Allied aircraft
B-25C Mitchell x 91


Allied aircraft losses
B-25C Mitchell: 8 damaged

Japanese Ships
AO Shioya, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AP Akashisan Maru, Bomb hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
TK Choran Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire
AO Sunosaki, Bomb hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
AO Ondo, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Achou Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AK Akagi Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AK Akibasan Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AP Ayaha Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Astuga Maru, Bomb hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
AP Anzan Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Africa Maru, Bomb hits 1
TK Amatsu Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AO Notoro, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Anrugu Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AK Aobasan Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AK Amagisan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Aikoku Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire
AO Naruto, Bomb hits 2, on fire
TK Fujisan Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AK Akagisan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Arizona Maru, Bomb hits 2
AP Argentina Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AK Akasisan Maru, Bomb hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
AP Aki Maru, Bomb hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
AO Shiriya, Bomb hits 1
AK Aden Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Atuta Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Aratama Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
TK Akatuki Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AO Takasaki, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Sata, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Atsuta Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Asama Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AP Arugun Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Akebono Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Arizana Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AO Tsurumi, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AK Akita Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Eiyo Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Anyo Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Azuma Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire

Japanese ground losses:
566 casualties reported
Guns lost 19

Port hits 12
Port fuel hits 3
Port supply hits 3

Aircraft Attacking:
36 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
18 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
22 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
9 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet

********************************************************************************

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/01/42

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wake Island , at 82,63


Allied aircraft
B-25C Mitchell x 95


Allied aircraft losses
B-25C Mitchell: 17 damaged

Japanese Ships
AP Aratama Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AP Aki Maru, Bomb hits 5, on fire, heavy damage
AP Anyo Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AK Akiura Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Asama Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Naruto, Bomb hits 5, on fire, heavy damage
AP Atsuta Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Atuta Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AK Akagisan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Akatuki Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Achou Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AP Arabia Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
TK Azuma Maru, Bomb hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
TK Akebono Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
TK Eiho Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Anrugu Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Arizana Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AO Takasaki, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AK Aobasan Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Astuga Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AK Akita Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Arima Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Africa Maru, Bomb hits 5, on fire, heavy damage
AP Argentina Maru, Bomb hits 1
AK Asahisan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Choran Maru, Bomb hits 1
AO Tsurumi, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AK Aden Maru, Bomb hits 1
AK Akibasan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Shiretoko, Bomb hits 1
AP Arizona Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Aikoku Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AO Notoro, Bomb hits 1
AK Amagisan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Shioya, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
TK Amatsu Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire

Japanese ground losses:
404 casualties reported
Guns lost 15

Port hits 6
Port fuel hits 3
Port supply hits 3

Aircraft Attacking:
20 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
27 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
6 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
13 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
11 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
8 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
7 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet

********************************************************************************

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/01/42

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wake Island , at 82,63


Allied aircraft
B-25C Mitchell x 93


Allied aircraft losses
B-25C Mitchell: 2 destroyed, 15 damaged

Japanese Ships
TK Azuma Maru, Bomb hits 2
AO Notoro, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Eiyo Maru, Bomb hits 1
AK Akibasan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Aratama Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Aikoku Maru, Bomb hits 1
TK Fujisan Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Astuga Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
TK Eiho Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Tsurumi, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AO Naruto, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Anzan Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Africa Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Ondo, Bomb hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
AP Arugun Maru, Bomb hits 1
TK Akebono Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Aki Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Aiyo Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Shiriya, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Anrugu Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AK Aden Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AK Akita Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Ayaha Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AO Shiretoko, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Akatuki Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire

Japanese ground losses:
360 casualties reported
Guns lost 14

Port hits 4
Port fuel hits 3

Aircraft Attacking:
22 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
36 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
9 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
13 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
8 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet

********************************************************************************

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/01/42

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wake Island , at 82,63


Allied aircraft
B-25C Mitchell x 96


Allied aircraft losses
B-25C Mitchell: 3 destroyed, 12 damaged

Japanese Ships
AP Arizona Maru, Bomb hits 4, on fire
AO Shiriya, Bomb hits 5, on fire
AP Asama Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AP Anzan Maru, Bomb hits 1
AO Shiretoko, Bomb hits 2
AO Naruto, Bomb hits 3, on fire
TK Arima Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Atsuta Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AK Aden Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
TK Amatsu Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AK Aobasan Maru, Bomb hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
TK Akebono Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AK Akita Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Achou Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
TK Choran Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Arizana Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Takasaki, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
TK Eiyo Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire
AP Atuta Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Akashisan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Eiho Maru, Bomb hits 5, on fire, heavy damage
AP Aiyo Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AK Amagisan Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AO Tsurumi, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AK Asahisan Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
TK Azuma Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Shioya, Bomb hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
AK Akibasan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AK Akagisan Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AP Aki Maru, Bomb hits 2
AP Astuga Maru, Bomb hits 1
AK Akasisan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AO Ondo, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Arabia Maru, Bomb hits 1
AK Akagi Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Aratama Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire
AP Africa Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Anrugu Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AO Notoro, Bomb hits 1
AO Sunosaki, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Arugun Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Anyo Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Ayaha Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AK Akiura Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire

Japanese ground losses:
471 casualties reported
Guns lost 20

Port hits 11
Port fuel hits 3
Port supply hits 5

Aircraft Attacking:
47 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
46 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet

********************************************************************************

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/01/42

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wake Island , at 82,63


Allied aircraft
B-25C Mitchell x 94


Allied aircraft losses
B-25C Mitchell: 3 destroyed, 10 damaged

Japanese Ships
AP Anyo Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Achou Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AK Akagisan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Atsuta Maru, Bomb hits 2
AO Sunosaki, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Tsurumi, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Anzan Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Akashisan Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AO Naruto, Bomb hits 1
AK Akita Maru, Bomb hits 1
AK Akibasan Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AO Takasaki, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AK Amagisan Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Aiyo Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Shiretoko, Bomb hits 1
AP Arabia Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Arizona Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire
TK Fujisan Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire
AP Argentina Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
TK Azuma Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Eiyo Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Shiriya, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Akatsuki Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AP Asama Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Choran Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AK Akiura Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Africa Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AK Aden Maru, Bomb hits 1
TK Amatsu Maru, Bomb hits 1
TK Arima Maru, Bomb hits 1

Japanese ground losses:
470 casualties reported
Guns lost 14

Port hits 5
Port fuel hits 2
Port supply hits 3

Aircraft Attacking:
46 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
35 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
6 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
4 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet

********************************************************************************


1 run of scenario in day (i.e. night bombings) for comparison only:

********************************************************************************

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/02/42

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Wake Island , at 82,63


Allied aircraft
B-25C Mitchell x 63


Allied aircraft losses
B-25C Mitchell: 1 destroyed, 7 damaged

Japanese Ships
TK Eiyo Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AK Akagi Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Aiyo Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Tsurumi, Bomb hits 1

Japanese ground losses:
117 casualties reported
Guns lost 9

Port hits 1
Port fuel hits 2

Aircraft Attacking:
26 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
36 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet

********************************************************************************


Discussion:

Like with B-29's the B-25C's brought similar (i.e. _BIG_) devastation to ships... all my comments I did in case of B-29's are again applicable here... perhaps what is interesting is to note that B-25C's were deadlier than B-17G's...

Please note that B-29 carries 40x 500 lb bombs while B-17G carries 6x 500 lb bombs.


Leo "Apollo11"


_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to Apollo11)
Post #: 3
RE: Comprehensive Port bombing testing WitP v1.5 (98 bo... - 5/7/2005 5:48:33 PM   
Jim D Burns


Posts: 3271
Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Salida, CA.
Status: offline
Throw a few fighter groups in the bases, I'm curious if it will change the results any. I doubt anyone will place huge task forces in port within range of allied bombers without 2-3 fighter groups minimum over the port flying cap. Your tests are pretty much a perfect result; let's see what happens when the pilots have to contend with some bullets thrown their way.

Jim


< Message edited by Jim D Burns -- 5/7/2005 5:49:29 PM >


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Post #: 4
RE: Comprehensive Port bombing testing WitP v1.5 (98 bo... - 5/7/2005 6:01:53 PM   
Rocco

 

Posts: 282
Joined: 10/20/2002
From: IL, USA
Status: offline
I'm curious, did you modify the port size of wake?

What is the port size? 3?

I ask because a small port should be a shooting gallery. No sane player would put that many ships in small port waiting to be bombed.

I suspect that the similar results between B29's and B17's (and so forth) is because only one bomb hit is allowed per heavy bomber. 50 ships packed in small port, your bound to get a hit, no?

I would rather see this test in a size ten port. It's interesting though.

Just my two cents.

Rocco

< Message edited by Rocco -- 5/7/2005 6:03:56 PM >


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Post #: 5
RE: Comprehensive Port bombing testing WitP v1.5 (98 bo... - 5/7/2005 6:11:57 PM   
Mogami


Posts: 12609
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline
Hi, Well 90 B-29's drop 3600 bombs (74 hits=2 percent of bombs dropped) 90 B-17 drop 1080 (I counted 64 hits on ships (less then 5.9 percent of bombs droped hit ships)


< Message edited by Mogami -- 5/7/2005 6:15:55 PM >


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Post #: 6
RE: Comprehensive Port bombing testing WitP v1.5 (98 bo... - 5/7/2005 6:28:44 PM   
Panzerjaeger Hortlund


Posts: 2700
Joined: 10/13/2000
Status: offline
It would seem that flak does **** all when it comes to bombers.

That amount of flak should not only cause damage and destroyed aircraft, it should also mess up their aim pretty bad.

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The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..

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Post #: 7
RE: Comprehensive Port bombing testing WitP v1.5 (98 bo... - 5/7/2005 6:31:31 PM   
scout1


Posts: 1752
Joined: 8/24/2004
From: South Bend, In
Status: offline
Leo,

This test setup is the cat's meow. I've just started playing with it and have some questions regarding some items that you may already have considered.

A/C have prep points set to 14 for Wake
Japanese AA has prep points set to 0 for Wake
Leaders on both sides are whomever existed within the database
86 A/C attacking
ton of ships in port

I ran a quick test case to get my feet wet and to get to know things (single run only) ....
Combat report listed Allied/Japanese Screen
85 a/c attacking, 14 damaged 3 A/c lost (1 Ops, 2 to Flak), 29 damaged
22 ships hit 1 bomb, 1 ship with 2, 26 ships with varying degrees of damage
3 & 4 bombs respectively (25 total)

Allied A/C Fatigue @ 30+, Morale significantly dropped.

So I guess I'm asking about the validity of using the combat report......

Great tool though .....

Scout1

(in reply to Jim D Burns)
Post #: 8
RE: Comprehensive Port bombing testing WitP v1.5 (98 bo... - 5/7/2005 6:37:29 PM   
scout1


Posts: 1752
Joined: 8/24/2004
From: South Bend, In
Status: offline
And for Frag/Mike Wood/Joel and of course Gary ......

If WitP provided an extraction tool (in csv format) for game states on each side, testing this game (and any game for that matter) would be clean, straght forward and relatively quick to do ......

So once again, I'll whine ..... Give us a csv extraction of each players games states from within the game (so nobody cheats )

(in reply to scout1)
Post #: 9
RE: Comprehensive Port bombing testing WitP v1.5 (98 bo... - 5/7/2005 8:18:03 PM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline
Leo ... just for the sake of arguement, it would make a great deal of sense to do the exact same test with Sallys and Bettys for a frame of reference. Right now it looks rather lopsides being Allied only.

(in reply to scout1)
Post #: 10
RE: Comprehensive Port bombing testing WitP v1.5 (98 bo... - 5/7/2005 8:19:15 PM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline
quote:

If WitP provided an extraction tool (in csv format) for game states on each side, testing this game (and any game for that matter) would be clean, straght forward and relatively quick to do ......


Actually, that is really not true. For it to be of value, you are talking about in game memory state changes on the fly so one can adjust parameters at runtime.

(in reply to scout1)
Post #: 11
RE: Comprehensive Port bombing testing WitP v1.5 (98 bo... - 5/7/2005 8:47:45 PM   
scout1


Posts: 1752
Joined: 8/24/2004
From: South Bend, In
Status: offline
Frag,

Actually I intend to conduct a series of tests,both Allied and Japanese. Leo was kind enough to upgrade his scenarios to allow me to "play".

And relative to your runtime statement, we're looking at it from different perspectives (I think). My intent would be to run a single turn, then extract the game states (ship damage, port damage, a/c damage, etc ....) This information is already provided to the player as window shopping only (see but can't electronically manipulate). The combat report file does permit importing into excel, but the true infromation lies within the game states as the report does not relect the true results (or at least that's my opinion today).
Now are we talking the same thing, or are we truely from different nations


(in reply to Mr.Frag)
Post #: 12
RE: Comprehensive Port bombing testing WitP v1.5 (98 bo... - 5/7/2005 9:36:10 PM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline
quote:

My intent would be to run a single turn, then extract the game states (ship damage, port damage, a/c damage, etc ....)


Thats the problem, you are talking about game state from the standpoint of ship damage etc.

I am talking about real game state data such as real weather, real spotting, random seed values, etc ... all the stuff under the covers that results in what you call game state

(in reply to scout1)
Post #: 13
RE: Comprehensive Port bombing testing WitP v1.5 (98 bo... - 5/7/2005 10:08:11 PM   
scout1


Posts: 1752
Joined: 8/24/2004
From: South Bend, In
Status: offline
quote:

I am talking about real game state data such as real weather, real spotting, random seed values, etc ... all the stuff under the covers that results in what you call game state


Fair enough. There is alot under the covers. And what would be appropriate for yourself wouldn't be appropriate for the rest of us. Still many of the parameters can be examined, weather varied, distance varied, leader varied (on purpose ), experience varied, morale varied, altitude varied, blah, blah, blah ...... The game states, as I refer to them would provide a great deal more insight than presently exists (at least that I'm aware of). I understand the moderators frustration at opinion vs fact from the community, but sometimes (just sometimes) the explanation as to "why" something occurred is pretty convinent from your guys side, also without (apparent) fact. "my" version of in game states would go a long ways to clearing the air .....

(in reply to Mr.Frag)
Post #: 14
RE: Comprehensive Port bombing testing WitP v1.5 (98 bo... - 5/8/2005 12:09:10 AM   
Lemurs!


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That flak result is a joke. Even without radar, shooting 100 heavy bombers flying at 10,000ft with flak power like the Ruhr on speed the results sgould have been much worse.

That is an example of 'broke'.

Mike

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Post #: 15
RE: Comprehensive Port bombing testing WitP v1.5 (98 bo... - 5/8/2005 12:38:49 AM   
pad152

 

Posts: 2829
Joined: 4/23/2000
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Witp 1.5 So Far

2 out of 3 times the Pearl Harbor attacks seem to do little damage, and fail to sink anything.

In my current game playing allies, Japan just captured a level 4 airbase in the DEI and flew in a group of Bettys. Now normally this would put an end to shipping in the area, yet so far they have missed ships in their most of their attacks.

I like the fact that air power is not the super uber ship killers so far! You can still sneak ships in and out of an area even under enemy aircraft range (I like it). I think the true test will come in 1943.

I think the verdict is still out on bombers in 1.5. If allied bombers become the uber ship killers in 1943 while the Japanese are not in 1941/1942, then we'll have a problem, a big problem!

(in reply to Lemurs!)
Post #: 16
Personnally? I'm not seeing whats broke here... - 5/8/2005 1:24:25 AM   
2Stepper


Posts: 947
Joined: 1/19/2003
From: South Burbs of Omaha
Status: offline
Umm, guys? When are we going to stop making the assertion that the game is broke because 250 japanese single engine bombers didn't sink 6 of 8 battleships EACH TIME!?!?

I am NOT going to let myself get drawn into this debate because frankly I find it frustrating that folks expect perfection with results. I mean, I've said it before... If all we wanted to do was watch WWII to be revisited from the "gods perspective" over and over again, we'd have contracted Matrix and 2x3 to build a time machine with faster then light speeds to zip all over the pacific. Oh, not to mention a cloaking device so you don't get shot at by the Yamato's 18" guns.

Simple fact is, too many people expect this game to mirror the real war in each instance. I bet if the Japanese had a chance to "model" their attack on Pearl before they made it, they'd have asserted much less in the way of casualties, but kept that to themselves. Why? Well, just speaking for myself I don't like falling on my sword. LOL!

Come on guys, lets get back to the game here... If something is genuinely broken like the leader bug reappearing or dissappearing units... lets look at those and provide Frag and others the means to find and fix... Otherwise lets just enjoy... I've been at this game the same amount of time the rest of you have and I've not seen a single glitch worthy of noting.

There... I'll probably get flamed which is okay for this, but I had to get on my soapbox here... I just can't see what's "broke".

_____________________________


"Send in the Infantry. Tanks cost money... the dead cost nothing..." :)

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Post #: 17
RE: Personnally? I'm not seeing whats broke here... - 5/8/2005 3:48:16 AM   
Mogami


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From: You can't get here from there
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Hi, In refering to AA there is more at work then just number of tubes pointing skyward.
What are the crew experiance? Is there radar? Leaders? When a bomber is shot down how many guns were firing at it alone ignoring other bombers?
For the bombers detection level does matter. The bombers will do better over targets where recon has been flown prior to the strikes.

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Post #: 18
RE: Personnally? I'm not seeing whats broke here... - 5/8/2005 5:54:32 AM   
2Stepper


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From: South Burbs of Omaha
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Couldn't agree more Mog... TONS of factors going into things... sure, sometimes I see a "flakey" result, but it doesn't bother me... It is just a game afterall... took almost a year, but I have a good friend sold on the game and we've both already got our moneys worth.

_____________________________


"Send in the Infantry. Tanks cost money... the dead cost nothing..." :)

(in reply to Mogami)
Post #: 19
RE: Comprehensive Port bombing testing WitP v1.5 (98 bo... - 5/8/2005 9:02:02 AM   
Charles_22


Posts: 3993
Joined: 3/12/2001
From: Dallas, Texas, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

Leo ... just for the sake of arguement, it would make a great deal of sense to do the exact same test with Sallys and Bettys for a frame of reference. Right now it looks rather lopsides being Allied only.


I would think that on a per-bomb basis those planes would do better, afterall, they are 2E bombers and not 4E. You might want to classify the Betty's as strategic bombers just for their range, and 'maybe' give them a 4E penalty for 'bombing' (no penalty for torpedoing), but certainly not the Sally's. Sally would be more in the B25 class, which we all would agree should do a better ship bombing job than a 4E bomber.

Yes, the Sally's and Betty's may be the best Ij bombers, but that doesn't mean they should be as poor bombing ships as the best Allied bombers, which just happen to be quite a different class of bomber.

I think it's important that if one wants to be 'even' in comparing IJ planes too, then you should keep it firstly in mind that they really are different types of planes. Comparing B25 performance in bombing, to these, would be more reasonable.


< Message edited by Charles_22 -- 5/8/2005 9:05:35 AM >

(in reply to Mr.Frag)
Post #: 20
RE: Personnally? I'm not seeing whats broke here... - 5/8/2005 10:15:44 AM   
Sabreman1966

 

Posts: 176
Joined: 2/12/2004
From: Newcastle upon Tyne, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: 2Stepper

Umm, guys? When are we going to stop making the assertion that the game is broke because 250 japanese single engine bombers didn't sink 6 of 8 battleships EACH TIME!?!?

I am NOT going to let myself get drawn into this debate because frankly I find it frustrating that folks expect perfection with results. I mean, I've said it before... If all we wanted to do was watch WWII to be revisited from the "gods perspective" over and over again, we'd have contracted Matrix and 2x3 to build a time machine with faster then light speeds to zip all over the pacific. Oh, not to mention a cloaking device so you don't get shot at by the Yamato's 18" guns.

Simple fact is, too many people expect this game to mirror the real war in each instance. I bet if the Japanese had a chance to "model" their attack on Pearl before they made it, they'd have asserted much less in the way of casualties, but kept that to themselves. Why? Well, just speaking for myself I don't like falling on my sword. LOL!

Come on guys, lets get back to the game here... If something is genuinely broken like the leader bug reappearing or dissappearing units... lets look at those and provide Frag and others the means to find and fix... Otherwise lets just enjoy... I've been at this game the same amount of time the rest of you have and I've not seen a single glitch worthy of noting.

There... I'll probably get flamed which is okay for this, but I had to get on my soapbox here... I just can't see what's "broke".


I say if people want an accurate attack on Pearl, then play Scenario 16 instead of Scenario 15. If you involve random numbers then expect random results

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(in reply to 2Stepper)
Post #: 21
RE: Comprehensive Port bombing testing WitP v1.5 (98 bo... - 5/8/2005 10:48:09 AM   
Apollo11


Posts: 22643
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline
Hi all,

The more diverse tests we have - the better!

Therefore I did post my TEST scenarios (i.e. links to them) and all of you are invited to play with them and create your own tests as well (either as addition to my own tests with new stuff, radar and fighters for Japanese for example or some other case)...

The only way we can find out (pinpoint) possible problems is if we all work, test and report!


Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to Apollo11)
Post #: 22
RE: Personnally? I'm not seeing whats broke here... - 5/8/2005 10:52:28 AM   
Apollo11


Posts: 22643
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
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Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mogami

Hi, In refering to AA there is more at work then just number of tubes pointing skyward.
What are the crew experiance? Is there radar? Leaders? When a bomber is shot down how many guns were firing at it alone ignoring other bombers?
For the bombers detection level does matter. The bombers will do better over targets where recon has been flown prior to the strikes.


Russell, is this all incorporated in WitP?

If that is the case some more tsts using those variables should be conducted as well!


Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to Mogami)
Post #: 23
RE: Comprehensive Port bombing testing WitP v1.5 (98 bo... - 5/8/2005 10:54:05 AM   
Apollo11


Posts: 22643
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline
Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

Leo ... just for the sake of arguement, it would make a great deal of sense to do the exact same test with Sallys and Bettys for a frame of reference. Right now it looks rather lopsides being Allied only.


I will try to do that (if I get time on Sunday)...

BTW, I did use B-25C which is 2 engine Allied bomber (6x 500 lb bombs).


Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to Mr.Frag)
Post #: 24
RE: Comprehensive Port bombing testing WitP v1.5 (98 bo... - 5/8/2005 11:04:44 AM   
doktorblood


Posts: 648
Joined: 2/14/2003
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I'm thinking that you stick the entire inventory of Japanese anti-aircraft artillery in the target hex and it won't make a bit of difference.

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(in reply to Apollo11)
Post #: 25
RE: Comprehensive Port bombing testing WitP v1.5 (98 bo... - 5/9/2005 6:29:12 AM   
scout1


Posts: 1752
Joined: 8/24/2004
From: South Bend, In
Status: offline
quote:

The only way we can find out (pinpoint) possible problems is if we all work, test and report!


Leo is absolutely right. Frankly, I've read a whole bunch of gripping from select memebers but the data to support it wa a bit on the thin side. Also, in fairness, I've heard a whole bunch of convinent explanations from the beta team, again without data to suuport it (at least any that was presented).

Here's an opportunity for the whole bunch to put your money where your mouth is .....

Les was kind eoug to update his test scenarios, partially at my request, to allow the community a tool to actually CREATE data. Any takers

(in reply to Apollo11)
Post #: 26
RE: Comprehensive Port bombing testing WitP v1.5 (98 bo... - 5/9/2005 6:38:54 AM   
scout1


Posts: 1752
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From: South Bend, In
Status: offline
Just to make sure, this isn't exclusively a test for Allied (or Japanese) bombers attacking ports. Same tool can be used for land combat, ASW, logistics, etc ....

For all the gripers, let's see the factual data (beta team also) .......

(in reply to scout1)
Post #: 27
RE: Comprehensive Port bombing testing WitP v1.5 (98 bo... - 5/9/2005 6:42:37 AM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline
quote:

Just to make sure, this isn't exclusively a test for Allied (or Japanese) bombers attacking ports.


While you are at it, you might want to list the historic record for port attacks too. After all, there is little point complaining about something being wrong without the historical point represented that shows it wrong

(in reply to scout1)
Post #: 28
RE: Comprehensive Port bombing testing WitP v1.5 (98 bo... - 5/10/2005 3:33:12 PM   
Apollo11


Posts: 22643
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline
Hi all,

Dentist appointments for me... I will post more tests when i will be able to...


Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to Mr.Frag)
Post #: 29
RE: Personnally? I'm not seeing whats broke here... - 5/10/2005 8:13:55 PM   
scout1


Posts: 1752
Joined: 8/24/2004
From: South Bend, In
Status: offline
quote:

What are the crew experiance? Is there radar? Leaders? When a bomber is shot down how many guns were firing at it alone ignoring other bombers?


That's an interesting point Mogami relative to the # of tubes pointing at the plane that is shot down, ignoring the rest. Obviously, us mortals will never know the answer to that one, but it does strike a theme I've observed with surface combat (particularly heavies against PT boats). Have had several engagements (day and night) where a large surface TF encountered a relatively small (6-8) PT boat TF. Results very fairly consistent with one PT boat taking a disproportionate number of the total hits. In the neighborhood of 80+ hits (which were 97+%). A hit in this game is like a magnet to other shots (which is a little silly for PT boats after an 8 inch hit (either it would pass right through leaving a really big hole, or if detonated, (nothing left to sink, much anyways).
So if the same targetting logic is being applied to the aircraft, then it would indicate that a disporportionate number of tubes were ALL following the same aircraft. If so, seems a pity to ignore the other 84 bombers, just cause everyone is trying to hit one a/c. But rather than speculate, is there any way to determine this from the available information ?

(in reply to Mogami)
Post #: 30
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