Matrix Games Forums

To End All Wars: Mountain InfantryPandora: Eclipse of Nashira Announced! Deal of the Week: Command Ops goes half price!New Fronts are opening up for Commander: The Great WarCharacters of World War 1Sign of for the Pike and Shot Beta!More Games are Coming to Steam! Return to the Moon on October 31st! Commander: The Great War iPad Wallpapers Generals of the Great War
Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

RE: Uniforms??????

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [Napoleonics] >> Crown of Glory >> RE: Uniforms?????? Page: <<   < prev  2 3 [4] 5 6   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Uniforms?????? - 5/6/2005 11:01:09 PM   
swatter555

 

Posts: 175
Joined: 3/19/2002
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Le Tondu

swatter555,

Um. As far as I can tell, no one has said anything about uniforms for at least two weeks. I believe the discussion has moved on to FOW.


Yes, I can tell.

I hope they allow users to replace the sprites if they wish, this is the only way some people will be happy at this stage of the game. Someone puts a few weeks into a mod and everyone is happy.

(in reply to Le Tondu)
Post #: 91
RE: Uniforms?????? - 5/6/2005 11:49:52 PM   
Le Tondu


Posts: 642
Joined: 10/2/2001
From: Seattle, WA
Status: offline
Yes indeed swatter555. That is, if they can be modded.


_____________________________

Vive l'Empereur!

(in reply to swatter555)
Post #: 92
RE: Uniforms?????? - 5/7/2005 1:12:38 AM   
Mr. Z


Posts: 1047
Joined: 3/24/2005
Status: offline

quote:

I am sorry, but not one uniform shown above even looks like it belongs to the Austrian Army of the Napoleonic Era. The closest is the Lancer. Some specifics are the red epaulettes and the red football shoulder pads that the kneeling infantryman and the artillerist at the bottom has. (The Austrian Army didn't have them at all.) If anyone disputes this, I would like to ask them to tell us all what Austrian regiment or branch of service these illustrations represent. (Please.)

I would like to come to pixelpusher's defense and say that yes, while the red trim on some of the units may not represent them accurately, there *were* Austrian units with red trim, including epaulettes. Also, white became more and more often the standard uniform color for jackets and pants as time went on, for many kinds of units. For example, many of the the Austrian Chevauxleger, as well as the Dragoons, after 1801. Also, Infantry and Chevauxleger regiments often had red facings, of course, if that is any help, as did Dragoons (Dragoon cuffs were also often red). I have also seen images of Austrian cavalry with red crests (we have already dealt with criticisms that helmets are not an exact match--again, we are economizing for several reasons, already mentioned above, and furthermore, as everyone knows, helmets often underwent several evolutions during the period--at any rate, again, we're trying to use a consistent model across nations for the benefit of playability.) And, I have seen images of Austrian infantry units--non-Hungarian fusiliers, I believe--with red epaulettes. Naturally, standardization was rare, if not altogether non-existent.

quote:

The figures are way, way too muscular and they look like they're wearing spandex.

Speaking for myself, I just can't see anything wrong with them--trousers did tend to be fairly close-fitting, and I can't really detect much musculature, but, as Jason said, we do appreciate the input.

Of course, we will be discussing all decisions right up to the last minute, but we do feel that, for example, moving to nearly all-white (or white/extremely light blue) uniforms for Austrian troops was, on the whole, a good decision. I can see how one might be puzzled by a single set of colors for each type of Austrian unit (or any other nation, for that matter), but again, we're making efficient and eminiently playable decisions, as described above.

Of course, that doesn't mean we don't welcome constructive criticism such as yours. We will do our best with all helpful comments we receive.

(in reply to Le Tondu)
Post #: 93
RE: Uniforms?????? - 5/7/2005 3:34:46 AM   
Le Tondu


Posts: 642
Joined: 10/2/2001
From: Seattle, WA
Status: offline
Mr. Z said : "And, I have seen images of Austrian infantry units--non-Hungarian fusiliers, I believe--with red epaulettes. Naturally, standardization was rare, if not altogether non-existent."


Please sir, which Austrian unit wore red epaulettes? I am not talking about red facings or red piping. (Juust red epaulettes like the French Grenadier style that is depicted in the illustrations supplied by the honorable pixelpusher.) I cannot think of any.

I'd like to know. I am not trying to pick a fight.

_____________________________

Vive l'Empereur!

(in reply to Mr. Z)
Post #: 94
RE: Uniforms?????? - 5/7/2005 4:42:10 AM   
Mr. Z


Posts: 1047
Joined: 3/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Please sir, which Austrian unit wore red epaulettes? I am not talking about red facings or red piping. (Juust red epaulettes like the French Grenadier style that is depicted in the illustrations supplied by the honorable pixelpusher.) I cannot think of any.

I'd like to know. I am not trying to pick a fight.

It's true that this is just a drawing by hand, but here is an image for you:

http://napnuts.tripod.com/napwars/frameaustriainf.htm

You can see the red epaulettes on the right-hand German Line Infantry (Fusilier) figure when you scroll down the page.

Surprising, no? I find that Napoleonic uniforming is a very complicated enterprise!

(in reply to Le Tondu)
Post #: 95
RE: Screens - 5/7/2005 11:49:09 PM   
wayne19563

 

Posts: 14
Joined: 4/17/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ericbabe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cush

Any new screens to share?


Sorry about the delay. I'll get something up soon.


Eric



Anything ? Anything ? Please ...

(in reply to ericbabe)
Post #: 96
RE: Uniforms?????? - 5/8/2005 7:57:53 AM   
Le Tondu


Posts: 642
Joined: 10/2/2001
From: Seattle, WA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Z

quote:

Please sir, which Austrian unit wore red epaulettes? I am not talking about red facings or red piping. (Juust red epaulettes like the French Grenadier style that is depicted in the illustrations supplied by the honorable pixelpusher.) I cannot think of any.

I'd like to know. I am not trying to pick a fight.

It's true that this is just a drawing by hand, but here is an image for you:

http://napnuts.tripod.com/napwars/frameaustriainf.htm

You can see the red epaulettes on the right-hand German Line Infantry (Fusilier) figure when you scroll down the page.

Surprising, no? I find that Napoleonic uniforming is a very complicated enterprise!


Mr. Z,

Yes indeed Sir, your example fits more than a single Austrian regiment given the different shades of red that were used. They however are certainly not epaulettes. They are red shoulder straps and just about every uniform of the day had shoulder straps of one color or another. Even greatcoats had shoulder straps.

The type of epaulettes that are used in the illustation supplied by pixelpusher are the same types that French Grenadiers wore ---like in this photograph

http://www.brigade-napoleon.org/infantrie/grengrd/grengrd.html

I respectfully submit that Austrian soldiers simply didn't wear those epaulettes (excluding some officers.) They wore red shoulder straps amongst other colors depending upon the regiment. As far as I can remember, Prussian, Russian and English soldiers didn't either.

I know that this might seem like there is a short distance between shoulder straps and epaulettes, but to those of us who have studied this Era for several decades, the distance is far more obvious than that. It is a distinction that will be picked up by others (in the future) who most likely will talk about it in less than a friendly manner.

Rick



_____________________________

Vive l'Empereur!

(in reply to Mr. Z)
Post #: 97
RE: Uniforms?????? - 5/9/2005 5:24:02 PM   
Mr. Z


Posts: 1047
Joined: 3/24/2005
Status: offline

quote:

Yes indeed Sir, your example fits more than a single Austrian regiment given the different shades of red that were used. They however are certainly not epaulettes. They are red shoulder straps and just about every uniform of the day had shoulder straps of one color or another. Even greatcoats had shoulder straps.

Well, yes, you're right, they do look more like shoulder straps. The details on our unit shoulders could be looked at as a kind of stand-in for both shoulder straps and epaulettes. We do hope that others are as friendly in any criticism as you have been, but we appreciate the heads-up in case they are not!

(in reply to Le Tondu)
Post #: 98
RE: Uniforms?????? - 5/9/2005 5:30:13 PM   
Mr. Z


Posts: 1047
Joined: 3/24/2005
Status: offline
As a side note for the NATO chit fans, I just wanted to point out that although they're not available on the strategic map, unit figures usually only appear after production, before they've been attached to an army. Once they've been attached to an army, they're represented by a nation flag, so you usually won't be seeing a map full of unit figures at the strategic level. There are a few irregular exceptions to this--POW units, guerillas, etc. Also, multiple unattached units in a single province are represented by only one figure--whichever unit happens to be at the top of the list of units in that province (the "top of the stack" in game terms.)

(in reply to Mr. Z)
Post #: 99
RE: Uniforms?????? - 5/9/2005 6:45:01 PM   
ericbabe


Posts: 10604
Joined: 3/23/2005
Status: offline
quote:


Yes, I can tell.

I hope they allow users to replace the sprites if they wish, this is the only way some people will be happy at this stage of the game. Someone puts a few weeks into a mod and everyone is happy.


The graphics are simply pcx files arranged in a grid. If anyone wants to make modded versions of the units we'd be pleased to provide layout information. As long as everyone promises that everyone will be happy...


Eric

(in reply to swatter555)
Post #: 100
RE: Uniforms?????? - 5/9/2005 6:52:37 PM   
ericbabe


Posts: 10604
Joined: 3/23/2005
Status: offline
quote:


(My fingers are crossed about the NATO symbols at the strategic level and the moddability question.)


Thinking a bit more about it, it'll be easy to supply a mod to allow the chits at the strategic level. Currently, units under production are showing using the chits in 50% transparency. But if someone makes versions of the chits at a larger size then they probably won't look confusing beside the small transparent onces.

EDIT: I should explain -- we use smaller versions of the chits on the strat map to show units under production. Using the same chits to show regular units on the same map would be, needless to say, very confusing. But if larger versions are used for actual units, should be no confusion.


Eric


< Message edited by ericbabe -- 5/9/2005 10:48:03 PM >

(in reply to Le Tondu)
Post #: 101
RE: Uniforms?????? - 5/9/2005 7:07:18 PM   
ericbabe


Posts: 10604
Joined: 3/23/2005
Status: offline
quote:


From what I can see, they're using the same models for 3D and just changing the colors of the uniforms here and there so as to facilitate ease of programming and memory usage. Seemed like a defensible idea to me.


The primary limitation is labor associated with rendering. Rendering a unit and the post-rendering production involved are a lot of work. Napoleonics games aren't going to sell 100,000's of copies. Profit margins per unit are fairly low. Costs must be kept under control. I'd be impressed if a competitor could produce the same game with hundreds of unique 3D models and not go bankrupt.


Eric

(in reply to Le Tondu)
Post #: 102
RE: Uniforms?????? - 5/9/2005 9:19:16 PM   
donkuchi


Posts: 1047
Joined: 3/14/2004
From: Cleveland, Ohio
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ericbabe

quote:


From what I can see, they're using the same models for 3D and just changing the colors of the uniforms here and there so as to facilitate ease of programming and memory usage. Seemed like a defensible idea to me.


The primary limitation is labor associated with rendering. Rendering a unit and the post-rendering production involved are a lot of work. Napoleonics games aren't going to sell 100,000's of copies. Profit margins per unit are fairly low. Costs must be kept under control. I'd be impressed if a competitor could produce the same game with hundreds of unique 3D models and not go bankrupt.


Eric



That is the great thing about making them modable. There are plenty of people out there who are moding games like this to make them more realistic and to suit their tastes rather than for money. If you put out the basic program and make it modable, people will buy the basic product and then make it fit their needs. I am encouraged that you are willing to put out the info to allow for moding those files.

(in reply to ericbabe)
Post #: 103
RE: Uniforms?????? - 5/9/2005 11:11:18 PM   
Le Tondu


Posts: 642
Joined: 10/2/2001
From: Seattle, WA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: donkuchi

That is the great thing about making them modable. There are plenty of people out there who are moding games like this to make them more realistic and to suit their tastes rather than for money. If you put out the basic program and make it modable, people will buy the basic product and then make it fit their needs. I am encouraged that you are willing to put out the info to allow for moding those files.



Yes, these gentlemen do indeed deserve praise.

It takes courage to do what they're doing and that is the sort of thing that is not seen enough these days.


_____________________________

Vive l'Empereur!

(in reply to donkuchi)
Post #: 104
RE: Uniforms?????? - 5/10/2005 5:12:26 AM   
Arinvald


Posts: 1774
Joined: 10/2/2001
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
This is why I find myself almost never buying any games from the "Big Boys" anymore. Only the small independent developers are willing to go the extra mile for their fanbase and actually listen to suggestions and accomodate their customer's desires. I am increasingly confident that Crown of Glory will be one of the best PC games I have ever owned.

(in reply to Le Tondu)
Post #: 105
RE: Screens - 5/27/2005 11:11:02 AM   
Zakhal


Posts: 2491
Joined: 1/4/2001
From: Jyväskylä, Finland
Status: offline
Looks a lot like the old Fantasy General. Neat, cant wait to get my hands on this.

_____________________________

"99.9% of all internet arguments are due to people not understanding someone else's point. The other 0.1% is arguing over made up statistics."- unknown poster
"Those who dont read history are destined to repeat it."– Edmund Burke

(in reply to Le Tondu)
Post #: 106
RE: Screens - 5/27/2005 11:16:06 AM   
nukkxx


Posts: 1122
Joined: 2/3/2005
Status: offline
Very very nice screenshots !

I want this game !!!! :-)

(in reply to Le Tondu)
Post #: 107
RE: Uniforms?????? - 5/27/2005 5:02:19 PM   
Le Tondu


Posts: 642
Joined: 10/2/2001
From: Seattle, WA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arinvald

This is why I find myself almost never buying any games from the "Big Boys" anymore. Only the small independent developers are willing to go the extra mile for their fanbase and actually listen to suggestions and accomodate their customer's desires. I am increasingly confident that Crown of Glory will be one of the best PC games I have ever owned.



That's because the Big Boys are too afraid to be original and creative. Re-makes of the same old thing are what they believe to be money makers. You know there may lie the problem.

Creating a game to make money. If that is your only motivation or inspiration, then you're not gonna make all that great a game, IMO. There has to be some sort of labor of love to it. That is where paying attention to tiny details exist. Make a great Napoleonic game that makes the grogs happy. What a concept. It helps if you're a grog making the game.

In our genre, we mostly have folks who are inspired to make something that they've always wanted to make. We're lucky in a way. The ones that fall on their face are obvious (ie. Imperal Glory and Cossacks2,) because they don't pay attention to details.

_____________________________

Vive l'Empereur!

(in reply to Arinvald)
Post #: 108
RE: Screens - 5/27/2005 9:58:36 PM   
Reiryc

 

Posts: 4976
Joined: 1/5/2001
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Arinvald

As a student of military history for the past 20+ years, I dearly crave historical accuracy in movies, books, and games; but for Christ's sake, don't get wrapped around the axle on trying to make a unit have the correct facings and numbers of buttons on the tunic. As you stated, many things changed during the period covered in the game and there is absolutely no way you could reflect all those chages as the game progresses. As far as I'm concerned, you have achieved an acceptable level of accuracy for such a complicated era. I prefer the NATO icons anyway.


Perfectly sums up my feelings about this... although I'll probably be using the 3d icons.

Game looks great...

_____________________________


(in reply to Arinvald)
Post #: 109
RE: Uniforms?????? - 5/27/2005 10:27:50 PM   
Reiryc

 

Posts: 4976
Joined: 1/5/2001
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Le Tondu


quote:

ORIGINAL: Arinvald

This is why I find myself almost never buying any games from the "Big Boys" anymore. Only the small independent developers are willing to go the extra mile for their fanbase and actually listen to suggestions and accomodate their customer's desires. I am increasingly confident that Crown of Glory will be one of the best PC games I have ever owned.



That's because the Big Boys are too afraid to be original and creative. Re-makes of the same old thing are what they believe to be money makers. You know there may lie the problem.

Creating a game to make money. If that is your only motivation or inspiration, then you're not gonna make all that great a game, IMO. There has to be some sort of labor of love to it. That is where paying attention to tiny details exist. Make a great Napoleonic game that makes the grogs happy. What a concept. It helps if you're a grog making the game.

In our genre, we mostly have folks who are inspired to make something that they've always wanted to make. We're lucky in a way. The ones that fall on their face are obvious (ie. Imperal Glory and Cossacks2,) because they don't pay attention to details.


I've no doubt that many of these 'labor of love' developers would sure like to make the money that these 'big boys' make from their labor of "indifference"....

I can also see why so many of these 'grog-centric' game developers have gone out of business. No matter what they do, no matter how they try to please, some pain in the ass grog will find something, anything to complain about. A game could play quite well, be representative of an historical time period being represented, but have something as pointless to the gameplay (not game presentation, but gameplay) as 20 nails to the sole of a boot as opposed to 21 and the whiners and complainers will come out of the woodwork. Giving bad press to an already low margin genre which affects sales.

It's one thing to complain about a gameplay issue, such as a musket firing 60 rounds per minute. This would be a problem with gameplay as it would change the nature of musket and ball warfare.

_____________________________


(in reply to Le Tondu)
Post #: 110
RE: Uniforms?????? - 5/27/2005 11:25:10 PM   
Le Tondu


Posts: 642
Joined: 10/2/2001
From: Seattle, WA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Reiryc
I've no doubt that many of these 'labor of love' developers would sure like to make the money that these 'big boys' make from their labor of "indifference"....

I can also see why so many of these 'grog-centric' game developers have gone out of business. No matter what they do, no matter how they try to please, some pain in the ass grog will find something, anything to complain about. A game could play quite well, be representative of an historical time period being represented, but have something as pointless to the gameplay (not game presentation, but gameplay) as 20 nails to the sole of a boot as opposed to 21 and the whiners and complainers will come out of the woodwork. Giving bad press to an already low margin genre which affects sales.

It's one thing to complain about a gameplay issue, such as a musket firing 60 rounds per minute. This would be a problem with gameplay as it would change the nature of musket and ball warfare.


Reiryc,

For the game developer, I guess that it all boils down to self respect, eh? Heck, its that way for everyone.

Shoddy games are being made and sold. No one can dispute that. I'm not buying them. Are you?

Buying them only rewards them for their crappy work and it dilutes our hobby even further because someone new will come along and think that is the standard of the hobby.

Your example about the number of nails in the sole of a boot is ridiculous to say the least. No one here is talking like that. You know, I've never seen anything like that, ever. No one is nit-picking here. We're trying to help. Not whine.

I look at it this way :

When (any) game developer presents something like a 3D figure on a horse and says it is a figure representing Napoleonic cavalry when it clearly does not look Napoleonic, someone who loves this hobby has to speak up about it. No one knows everything and speaking up about it in a respectful manner is a service to the game developer, plain and simple.

You should know that feedback is very important to a game developer. It is pretty much the purpose in releasing screenshots. Isan't it? I've read stories where motion pictures have been changed beacuse of the audience's reactions to the film at an early screening. Game development is no different, it would seem.


_____________________________

Vive l'Empereur!

(in reply to Reiryc)
Post #: 111
RE: Uniforms?????? - 5/28/2005 12:36:03 AM   
Reiryc

 

Posts: 4976
Joined: 1/5/2001
Status: offline
quote:

For the game developer, I guess that it all boils down to self respect, eh? Heck, its that way for everyone.


Self respect?

Nah... I'd say it boils down to paying the bills. Self respect is a nice thing to have, but when you have a mortgage, house payments, kids to feed, etc... self respect takes a back seat sometimes.

quote:

Shoddy games are being made and sold. No one can dispute that. I'm not buying them. Are you?


Yep. I've bought shoddy games, good games, games somewhere in between.

quote:

Your example about the number of nails in the sole of a boot is ridiculous to say the least. No one here is talking like that. You know, I've never seen anything like that, ever. No one is nit-picking here. We're trying to help. Not whine.


I disagree with you.

I think you guys are whining. Let's assume the game play is fantastic for the sake of argument. Will the gameplay change one iota if an austrian soldier is wearing periwinkle pants or an indigo hat shapped like a derby? I see nothing helpful about a discussion over a shoulder strap or a should epaulette after they gave their reasons why the soldiers look the way they do. How will gameplay be improved over that issue?

quote:

When (any) game developer presents something like a 3D figure on a horse and says it is a figure representing Napoleonic cavalry when it clearly does not look Napoleonic, someone who loves this hobby has to speak up about it. No one knows everything and speaking up about it in a respectful manner is a service to the game developer, plain and simple.


This is where I disagree. I don't feel one has to speak up. However, if one should do so and be told that due to financial and/or time constraints or due to gameplay reasons of accessability, then that hobbiest should, if they are truly trying to help, consider the matter resolved and 'move along' to the next issue of 'help'. What I see here is a bunch of whining after the explanations of why the uniforms were the way they were. If I were engaged in some yard work and my neighbor comes over to offer help by telling me what I am doing wrong or how something should be done, I'd listen to his advice. However, after I explained to him why I'm doing my yardwork in a particular way he continued to push the issue, then he'd promptly be sent home.

quote:

You should know that feedback is very important to a game developer. It is pretty much the purpose in releasing screenshots. Isan't it? I've read stories where motion pictures have been changed beacuse of the audience's reactions to the film at an early screening. Game development is no different, it would seem.


Let's not confuse feedback with whining.

Feedback to me is this:

Developer: Here are some screenshots, what do you think?

Gamer: I think the australian uniforms are wrong because of this, that, and the other reason.

Developer: I hear you, but due to accessibility reasons for the gamer so that we could convey information to those who are not as familiar with the uniforms, we've decided to standardize them to certain criteria to match the overall game system.

Gamer: Ok, no problem.


That is an example of feedback imo. It crosses over to whining when someone basically continues.

Here is an example of whining imo because the issue of what they were trying to convey isn't addressed, just the aesthetic issue is being pushed yet again:

quote:

You are conveying information to the player in the 3D images, but I respectfully submit that you unfortunately are conveying the incorrect information. As I look at that screen, I see no Austrian uniforms at all.

Some orange (or ochre rather) color did exhist in the Austrian uniform. The trouble is that it was in the uniform for their artillery gunners. For Austrian troops, here has to be white or it just doesn't work.

Now, that guy on the horse looks weird too. What's up with that red horse tail plume coming from his head? I don't remember seeing any Napoleonic cavalry with one of those.


The information they were trying to convey is this:

quote:

This meant, for instance, making the guard units and light infantry units of each nation look similar to the guards and lt infantry of the other nations. We wanted to make sure that the units had some of the national color in them -- the color we use to shade the main map -- so that units would be easily recognizable to players: we did not want to require that players have the expert knowledge of uniforms that you have in order to be able to recognize units.


So the question is why bring up this:

quote:

As I look at that screen, I see no Austrian uniforms at all.

Some orange (or ochre rather) color did exhist in the Austrian uniform. The trouble is that it was in the uniform for their artillery gunners. For Austrian troops, here has to be white or it just doesn't work.


This issue is familiarity across all nations for light and guard units. It doesn't matter whether austrian troops wear green, purple, or the latest in jc penny's fashions so long as they are similar to the light and guard units of other nations.

I do think they should strive to represent the armies of the day as faithfully as possible, however if they have reasons where they must make alterations in the interest of accessibility for gamers outside of the niche within the niche of a niche, then I for one can accept that reasoning enough to not continue to point out where they are wrong on their historical abstracts.

Now when you reply, I hope that you will note the difference between initial feedback where I have no criticism and subsequent 'feedback' after the reasoning has already been explained.


Edit:

And let's just add in one more quote from the developer:

quote:

I understand completely why other game companies release only bits of information! I sympathize.


Heh... any guesses why he might sympathize?


< Message edited by Reiryc -- 5/28/2005 12:42:20 AM >


_____________________________


(in reply to Le Tondu)
Post #: 112
RE: Uniforms?????? - 5/28/2005 2:54:02 AM   
Le Tondu


Posts: 642
Joined: 10/2/2001
From: Seattle, WA
Status: offline
Reiryc,

You don't care if Austrian troops wear purple uniforms?

You came to this discussion more than a month late. You missed the meaning of what was said and you missed the context as well. The simple record above (if you even bothered to read it all carefully) does not do justice to what was happening -at the time. You clearly are not here to have a friendly conversation. You're just here to stir things up.

Goodbye.



_____________________________

Vive l'Empereur!

(in reply to Reiryc)
Post #: 113
RE: Uniforms?????? - 5/28/2005 3:30:08 AM   
Reiryc

 

Posts: 4976
Joined: 1/5/2001
Status: offline
quote:

You don't care if Austrian troops wear purple uniforms?


Hrm... I guess you didn't read my post very carefully.

I even put in italics the point so that it could be made clearly.

So I will bold the whole thing again and hope it penetrates!

I do think they should strive to represent the armies of the day as faithfully as possible, however if they have reasons where they must make alterations in the interest of accessibility for gamers outside of the niche within the niche of a niche, then I for one can accept that reasoning enough to not continue to point out where they are wrong on their historical abstracts.

quote:

You came to this discussion more than a month late.


Irrelevant. I can join the discussion when I see fit. Just because I did not join in when it was originally posted makes no difference as the issue of my concern is not resolved.

quote:

You missed the meaning of what was said and you missed the context as well. The simple record above (if you even bothered to read it all carefully) does not do justice to what was happening -at the time.


Sure it does. I read it, in context and in full. There is nothing to miss, the whole thing is here in print to read from beginning to end.

quote:

You clearly are not here to have a friendly conversation. You're just here to stir things up.




Imo, things got stirred up when people wouldn't accept the developers explanations and kept on whining. If by pointing this out, this stirs things up even more, so be it. My intention however is not to stir things up but to voice my concerns as anyone else has the right to do.

So how about you address my points in previous post instead of trying to re-direct the issue into some grudge match between us? My issue is with those who I think are whining about the same issue after -- the developers gave their reasoning for their uniform choices.

Why do I care about this whining one may ask? Because I for one enjoy being able to have access to the developers and would not like to give them reason to shy away from the continued open communications like now.

As I quoted the developer before:

quote:

I understand completely why other game companies release only bits of information! I sympathize.


I hope that sympathy doesn't end up being translated into action on their part.

_____________________________


(in reply to Le Tondu)
Post #: 114
RE: Uniforms?????? - 5/28/2005 3:42:40 AM   
wodin


Posts: 7870
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline
Im afraid I have to agree.

The developer stated his reasons and that should be then end of it.

If you dont like it dont buy the game. EXcept that your wish will not be put into place and no amount of posts will change the matter.

ALso remember this developer is making a game for a bigger martket than just Napoleonic grogs. I for one have no idea about Napoleonic uniforms but if I did and the game wasnt right, as long as they looked as close as possible within the restraints of the game I wouldnt careless.

If I was the develper I'd feel pretty peeved in the end if I thought I was making a good game with great gameplay and then had a few people consatntly criticising it even when Id stated the reasons why I wasnt doing what they wanted.

I would love someone to make a WW1 tactical squad based game or Lock n Load to go PC or ASL to go PC or ATS to go PC but no one is doing it so be thankfull you have 3 games in development buy Matrix alone.

_____________________________

My Tactical wargame facebook page.

https://www.facebook.com/Tacticalwargame


(in reply to Reiryc)
Post #: 115
RE: Uniforms?????? - 5/28/2005 5:24:06 AM   
2gaulle

 

Posts: 435
Joined: 2/16/2004
From: Montreal
Status: offline
quote:

Im afraid I have to agree.

The developer stated his reasons and that should be then end of it.

If you dont like it dont buy the game. EXcept that your wish will not be put into place and no amount of posts will change the matter.

ALso remember this developer is making a game for a bigger martket than just Napoleonic grogs. I for one have no idea about Napoleonic uniforms but if I did and the game wasnt right, as long as they looked as close as possible within the restraints of the game I wouldnt careless.

If I was the develper I'd feel pretty peeved in the end if I thought I was making a good game with great gameplay and then had a few people consatntly criticising it even when Id stated the reasons why I wasnt doing what they wanted.

I would love someone to make a WW1 tactical squad based game or Lock n Load to go PC or ASL to go PC or ATS to go PC but no one is doing it so be thankfull you have 3 games in development buy Matrix alone.




you don't care about uniform,
you don't care about history
you don't care about nothing unless stupid play....

do you know what's the difference between our century and Roman/greek period... the love for cultur!
but what's cultur, nothing today, all that's important it;'s gamepay and money....


< Message edited by 2gaulle -- 5/28/2005 5:39:22 AM >

(in reply to wodin)
Post #: 116
RE: Uniforms?????? - 5/28/2005 5:41:06 AM   
Reiryc

 

Posts: 4976
Joined: 1/5/2001
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: 2gaulle

you don't care about uniform,
you don't care about history
you don't care about nothing unless stupid play....

do you know what's the difference between our century and Roman/greek period... the love for cultur!
but what's cultur, nothing today, all that's important it;'s money, money, money....



My dear twogaulle,

Do I care enough about the uniforms to have a childish fit? Nope. Does this mean I don't care? Nope.

Does understanding the reality that a game must make certain abstractions in order to be playable? Yes. Therefore, does this mean I do not care about history? Nope.

Do I care about the play over things like uniforms? Yes. If I want to look at uniforms, I'll pull out the osprey. If I want to play a game, I'll fire up crown of glory.

Culture does not pay the bills, does it?

Let me ask you a question. When you go to pay your rent/mortgage each month, do you send a check or do you send them an article on sandal stitching in ancient roman times?





_____________________________


(in reply to 2gaulle)
Post #: 117
RE: Uniforms?????? - 5/28/2005 3:02:37 PM   
wayne19563

 

Posts: 14
Joined: 4/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

"Let me ask you a question. When you go to pay your rent/mortgage each month, do you send a check or do you send them an article on sandal stitching in ancient roman times? "


Made me smile


_____________________________

Thanks
Wayne

(in reply to Reiryc)
Post #: 118
RE: Uniforms?????? - 5/28/2005 5:33:24 PM   
Le Tondu


Posts: 642
Joined: 10/2/2001
From: Seattle, WA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: 2gaulle

you don't care about uniform,
you don't care about history
you don't care about nothing unless stupid play....

do you know what's the difference between our century and Roman/greek period... the love for cultur!
but what's cultur, nothing today, all that's important it;'s gamepay and money....




2gaulle,

That person is trying to bait you into an argument. I've seen him do it in other places to other people.

Ignore him and you'll feel much better.

See that green ball next to where it says "email" at the bottom of his posts? Click it. It will turn red and you won't see his posts anymore. It will be as if he doesn't exist.

< Message edited by Le Tondu -- 5/28/2005 5:35:20 PM >


_____________________________

Vive l'Empereur!

(in reply to 2gaulle)
Post #: 119
RE: Uniforms?????? - 5/28/2005 5:50:31 PM   
Panzeh

 

Posts: 112
Joined: 4/4/2005
Status: offline
I don't mind bad uniforms, as this really isn't the type of game that needs 'em. I can understand why people would want accurate uniforms in a 3d tactical game, but for symbolic units, the icon doesn't really matter as long as it is descriptive enough to tell me what sort of unit there is.

Many NATO symbols have Napoleonic roots, so it makes perfect sense to use them.

(in reply to Le Tondu)
Post #: 120
Page:   <<   < prev  2 3 [4] 5 6   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [Napoleonics] >> Crown of Glory >> RE: Uniforms?????? Page: <<   < prev  2 3 [4] 5 6   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.117