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firing after moving?

 
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firing after moving? - 2/26/2005 6:16:30 PM   
Alby


Posts: 4782
Joined: 4/29/2000
From: Whiteland, Indiana
Status: offline 		does anyone know how to enable MMGs/ LMGs to fire after moving??
I tried classing them as pack animals but then pack animals showed up in MG lists!!!
I notice in H2H they are classed this way, and are able to fire after moving, but I cant figure it out???

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RE: firing after moving? - 2/26/2005 7:20:24 PM   
Riun T

 

Posts: 1848
Joined: 7/31/2004
Status: offline 		Hey Alby, Does'nt steel panthers make the said unit consider that u shouldn't run with a loaded gun??IE doesn't it class it as just being unloaded because I don't think any unit can shoot after unloading from something??.RT

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RE: firing after moving? - 2/26/2005 9:05:52 PM   
Alby


Posts: 4782
Joined: 4/29/2000
From: Whiteland, Indiana
Status: offline 		LMGs and MMGs should be able to set up and fire quickly after moving, not necessarily after being "unloaded"


< Message edited by Alby -- 2/26/2005 2:06:32 PM >

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RE: firing after moving? - 3/1/2005 8:32:20 PM   
Dusan

 

Posts: 10
Joined: 2/17/2005
Status: offline 		I think that this limit should represent that even LMGs can't fire as quickly as ordinary hand guns. It need some preparation and also usual two men crew needs to consolidate themself before firing.

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Dusan the virtual panzergrenadiere
playing SP since SP I

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RE: firing after moving? - 3/2/2005 12:18:00 AM   
KG Erwin


Posts: 8784
Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline 		Given that the game turn abstractly represents "a few minutes", which was never exactly defined, the set-up time doesn't seem to be unreasonable. Even boardgames like Panzerblitz didn't allow movement/fire on the same turn, as I recall.

However, the illusion of "real-time" given by opfire makes up for this, IMO. Remember, SPWaW is a game, not a simulation.

< Message edited by KG Erwin -- 3/1/2005 5:21:11 PM >

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RE: firing after moving? - 3/2/2005 4:54:12 PM   
Poopyhead

 

Posts: 380
Joined: 3/17/2004
Status: offline 		The sequence of events for moving a LMG/MMG are:
1. Stop firing and unload
2. Detach gun from tripod
3. Gunner takes the red hot weapon and the assistant takes the ammo and the tripod
4. Run behind the faster, lighter armed squad members who are firing
5. Take direction from the Squad Leader as to where he wants his firepower (The rest of the squad is already firing)
6. Emplace tripod
7. Attach LMG/MMG
8. Load and rock and roll

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RE: firing after moving? - 3/2/2005 5:35:35 PM   
RockinHarry


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From: Germany
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alby

does anyone know how to enable MMGs/ LMGs to fire after moving??
I tried classing them as pack animals but then pack animals showed up in MG lists!!!
I notice in H2H they are classed this way, and are able to fire after moving, but I cant figure it out???


If you need them for scenario design, I packed a couple of them in V8.3 norway OOB! Check december 1949 as usual.

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RE: firing after moving? - 3/3/2005 7:06:36 PM   
Alby


Posts: 4782
Joined: 4/29/2000
From: Whiteland, Indiana
Status: offline 		cool thanks Harry

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RE: firing after moving? - 3/4/2005 12:36:48 AM   
Wild Bill

 

Posts: 6821
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From: Smyrna, Ga, 30080
Status: offline 		Harry, you old scoundrel, you! I have read, however, of gunners who fired their .30 cal from the hip so to speak, I'm trying to remember the exact event. Old minds fade fast. There was an instance of this with some machine gunners on Guadalcanal. There was a Marine who had adapted a .30 caliber MG with a sling, I believe on Iwo Jima. He even had a name for it. I'll have to look that one up.

So I guess we can have a "Rambo" every once in awhile, with the ammo belt trailing off his arm, a thick cloth around the barrel, and blasting away!

On this matter, I think I remember moving an MG only one hex. I believe it fired normally I'll try it tonight and see if I am right. Has anyone else seen this?

Wild Bill

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RE: firing after moving? - 3/4/2005 12:48:17 AM   
Wild Bill

 

Posts: 6821
Joined: 4/7/2000
From: Smyrna, Ga, 30080
Status: offline 		Test done. Nope, they can't use the MG, only their personal weapons after moving even one hex.

BUT, they can use their MGs for defensive or opportunity fire if fired upon by the enemy in his turn. So I guess we can say you lose 1/2 of a turn when you move. In the general time frame we allow for SPWAW turns, that would be about 2 minutes. To move 40-50 yards of meters and set up even that quickly is pretty fair, I think.

Wild Bill

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RE: firing after moving? - 3/4/2005 1:03:45 AM   
KG Erwin


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From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wild Bill

Harry, you old scoundrel, you! I have read, however, of gunners who fired their .30 cal from the hip so to speak, I'm trying to remember the exact event. Old minds fade fast. There was an instance of this with some machine gunners on Guadalcanal. There was a Marine who had adapted a .30 caliber MG with a sling, I believe on Iwo Jima. He even had a name for it. I'll have to look that one up.

So I guess we can have a "Rambo" every once in awhile, with the ammo belt trailing off his arm, a thick cloth around the barrel, and blasting away!

On this matter, I think I remember moving an MG only one hex. I believe it fired normally I'll try it tonight and see if I am right. Has anyone else seen this?

Wild Bill


Bill, the Marine on Iwo was Tony Stein, who fashioned a hand-held weapon from an aircraft MG. He called it his "Stinger".

As for the "Rambo" stuff, that was inspired by guys like John Basilone and Mitchell Paige, who did indeed fire a 30 cal from the hip, charging down a hill. Both of them won MOHs at Guadalcanal. Basilone was killed at Iwo Jima.

< Message edited by KG Erwin -- 3/3/2005 6:09:40 PM >

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RE: firing after moving? - 3/4/2005 1:09:47 AM   
Wild Bill

 

Posts: 6821
Joined: 4/7/2000
From: Smyrna, Ga, 30080
Status: offline 		Thanks Gunny. I had my facts right, just could not remember the names. Yep, Stein and Basilone. I've even written of these two in articles on the Pacific. So much for an aging memory. Nicely done, Glenn....WB

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Wild Bill Wilder
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Post #: 12
RE: firing after moving? - 3/4/2005 1:15:57 AM   
KG Erwin


Posts: 8784
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From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wild Bill

Test done. Nope, they can't use the MG, only their personal weapons after moving even one hex.

BUT, they can use their MGs for defensive or opportunity fire if fired upon by the enemy in his turn. So I guess we can say you lose 1/2 of a turn when you move. In the general time frame we allow for SPWAW turns, that would be about 2 minutes. To move 40-50 yards of meters and set up even that quickly is pretty fair, I think.

Wild Bill


I would concur with this, the occasional heroic performances notwithstanding.

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RE: firing after moving? - 3/4/2005 4:21:49 PM   
RockinHarry


Posts: 2944
Joined: 1/18/2001
From: Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wild Bill

Harry, you old scoundrel, you! I have read, however, of gunners who fired their .30 cal from the hip so to speak, I'm trying to remember the exact event. Old minds fade fast. There was an instance of this with some machine gunners on Guadalcanal. There was a Marine who had adapted a .30 caliber MG with a sling, I believe on Iwo Jima. He even had a name for it. I'll have to look that one up.

So I guess we can have a "Rambo" every once in awhile, with the ammo belt trailing off his arm, a thick cloth around the barrel, and blasting away!

On this matter, I think I remember moving an MG only one hex. I believe it fired normally I'll try it tonight and see if I am right. Has anyone else seen this?

Wild Bill


You´re right of course Wild Bill! However, the HMG units in norway OOB are not meant to give you any Rambo sort of units, they´re rather meant to give a scenario designer HMG units that help with supporting fire in ATTACK games. Think I packed the info in the PDF file somewhere.

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RE: firing after moving? - 3/5/2005 12:25:41 AM   
Wild Bill

 

Posts: 6821
Joined: 4/7/2000
From: Smyrna, Ga, 30080
Status: offline 		Harry, your hard work, along with others on the OOB team, gave us so many wonderful tools to work with. As a scenario designer I could not be more pleased. One can spend days looking at all of them.

This coupled with the great new map graphics you and Jim1954 gave us have made in my mind SPWAW the all time gaming classic, especially for the scenario designer. There is not a game that out there past or present that can touch it for its versatility. Its a shame that more people don't realize it.

Thanks, my friend, for the hundreds of hours you have put into this.

Wild Bill

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Post #: 15
RE: firing after moving? - 3/6/2005 7:34:07 PM   
Major Destruction


Posts: 879
Joined: 8/10/2000
From: Canada
Status: offline 		There are some lmg units in the game that are classed appropriately so that they do move and fire in the same turn. The bren and 30cal lmg units come immediately to mind. There may be others.

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RE: firing after moving? - 3/6/2005 8:26:23 PM   
Alby


Posts: 4782
Joined: 4/29/2000
From: Whiteland, Indiana
Status: offline 		So classing them as light infrantry works?
How does that affect the Buy menu??
I wonder if they then show up on the wrong buy menu screens
thanks for your replys

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Post #: 17
RE: firing after moving? - 3/7/2005 3:05:03 AM   
Major Destruction


Posts: 879
Joined: 8/10/2000
From: Canada
Status: offline 		It only works for the LMG's.

For crewed weapons it will not work properly because the weapon in slot one will be multiplied by the size of the crew. Therefore the game will assume that the 4 man crew of a machine gun will each be firing a MG. (I think)

MG's have a certain degree of hard coding attached to the class. To make an MG work properly and to be able to shoot in the same turn as moving, you will have to change the class (like to pack animal) then change the class of pack animals to something so they don't show up in the same purchase screen, then you will have to fiddle with (er, I mean edit) the values of the machine gun weapons.

Editing the class of a unit has a chain reaction effect.

And don't forget to do this with every MG in every nation.

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They struggled with a ferocity that was to be expected of brave men fighting with forlorn hope against an enemy who had the advantage of position......knowing that courage was the one thing that would save them.

Julius Caesar, 57 BC

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Post #: 18
RE: firing after moving? - 3/7/2005 3:43:58 AM   
KG Erwin


Posts: 8784
Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline 		Alby, once again, you gotta realize that this engine has serious limitations amd boundaries that must be adhered to, or else you throw the game way out of anything approaching realistic results.

The SPWaW Depot team approached this problem, and the minor glitches in 8.3 have been addressed.

If you adopt these changes, and the others I put forth in my independent work on the USMC, you will have the latest research on these OOBs.

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Post #: 19
RE: firing after moving? - 3/7/2005 4:16:43 AM   
Alby


Posts: 4782
Joined: 4/29/2000
From: Whiteland, Indiana
Status: offline 		Still trying to figure out how Panzer Leo got it to work in H2H LOL

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RE: firing after moving? - 3/7/2005 5:07:10 PM   
RockinHarry


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From: Germany
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alby

Still trying to figure out how Panzer Leo got it to work in H2H LOL


Panzer Leo did some hacks to the mech.exe that cause various units to show a different unit class than in the OOB editor! What you see in the OOB editor is what you get in the game normally!

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