First impressions here please

Matrix Games and Simulations Canada combine and completely remake two classic NATO vs. Warsaw Pact wargames into a new classic. Based on the original wargames “Main Battle Tank: North Germany” and “Main Battle Tank: Central Germany”, Flashpoint Germany is a new grand tactical wargame of modern combat. Every aspect of modern grand tactical warfare is included, from advanced armor, air and helicopters to chemical and tactical nuclear weapons. Step into the most dangerous war.. . that never was.

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wodin
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First impressions here please

Post by wodin »

Can the people who buy the game please post their first impressions when ready.
sabre100
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RE: First impressions here please

Post by sabre100 »

Well havent played much but what I have seen so far is excellent, the game is also very smooth and stable.

Nice Job
Real and Simulated Wars
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RE: First impressions here please

Post by Real and Simulated Wars »

I got it yesterday and could play only for one hour, late at night.
I am totally in love with this game. Very well done!
Not a Cold War buff, barely what you should call an acquainted WWII PC wargamer, but very interested in realistic depictions of warfare, I am sure this game will have very good reviews.
I have to confess that I always lurked in these forums, but I wasn't impressed. Square tiles, move counter here to there, so what? But last night I realized that this game will likely be for me one of those "easy to play, hard to master" games. The classsics that never leave your hard drive. FPG is an enormous, complex beast that it will take me some time to even scratch the surface. So much detail in orders, dispositions, hardware, doctrine. You name it! Kudos to the developer(s?). For the ignorants like me, the hardware pictures and info are invaluable. The WEGO system was a terrific choice given the aggregation scale of terrain and opposing forces.
Looking forward to hear the opinions of the Cold War buffs here.
I played the first tutorial and had a blast. My favorite tool/aid so far (don't laugh, I AM that ignorant of Cold War) the line of sight key. No more guessing what's the vintage point that controls the valley. No more guessing of what's the best ambush position.
I will come back with more.
Cheers,
Black Cat
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RE: First impressions here please

Post by Black Cat »

Since I only play against the AI I wonder how that is in attack and defense ?
Real and Simulated Wars
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RE: First impressions here please

Post by Real and Simulated Wars »

Hi Cat,
Same single-player-only situation here.
What you ask is of my top interest and I wish I could answer in better detail. Maybe somebody can already answer this.
I didn't have time to experiment in detail. Basically I was in awe for the complexity of the game. I will give the scenario editor a try, time allows.
The scenario I played, first tutorial, is kindof simple and short. And that's on purpose, so you focus in learning how to move your forces. But the WP forces attacked me fiercely. On a first try, I lost almost a whole Abrams platoon (I placed them on a very exposed position and the WP mechanized infantry made use of their antitank capability). It was nasty. But then I READ the tutorial and became aware of the posibility of letting the WP forces to advance and surprising them when they are close. And it worked so good!
I will let you know as soon as I try the scenario editor.
Cheers,
Kelm
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RE: First impressions here please

Post by Kelm »

Hi,

i will try to give my opinion, although my english is not very good...

One thing that i like with this game is that you can parametrer practically all the options which propose the game, windows, game options, turn length...for these last option it allow the player to choose between a close micro-managment of his units with short time turn, ot for long time turn to choose to play more with the doctrines, and the settings of his units. it's the same for the support units (artillery) you can choose between a "direct control of these units, or leave your units calls themself for support.

I have played the two tutorial scenarios, and if the overall game seem to be complex in his mechanics, after several replay with the two tutorial and try different approaches, i start to understand better the game.

The only thing that is missing for me in the game is music, i know that some players dont really attach importance to that, but when i play i like to hear musical accompaniment, for these last i have extracted the music that come with steel panthers 2...

BTW, it's just an opinion that i have after several hours of play, so i am sorry, of not being able to give you a more accurate point of view...and in conclusion the price is not very expensive for a game of this quality.
sabre100
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RE: First impressions here please

Post by sabre100 »

After playing the 2 tutorials this game blows me away. Anyhow the graphics, the style, everything about this game is great. Really fun and challenging but easy to learn and get into the game. I love the sound effects for the weapons firing and vechile movement. Cant wait for user scenarios to start coming out. But this is a great game and you cant beat the price. Excellent game engine also, Matrix you should use this engine for other games and also make add-ons for this game it is a winner.
Poliorcetes
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RE: First impressions here please

Post by Poliorcetes »

I've done the first 2 tutorials a few times. So far I really like the game. I'm still trying to grasp all that is going on. I need to play with the Artillary TDP's, as I was having trouble getting the Right Click options to show up.
Learning to move everything in a timely matter definitely takes some getting used to. I selected isolated units rather than group selecting so my marches looked like an accordian. I need to read the manual some more to figure out what the movement numbers actually mean (7 what?) and how that fits with the numbers that appear when you Hotkey M.
AI is hard to tell. As the WP the americans just charged up the road at me, even though the only victory points were for staying in sector 6. I tried a flanking approach, it started raining (visibiilty dropped to 500 m, 1 square) and at the end had a bloodless victory as the US charged out of sector 6 and I snuck in the back (I never knew where they were). Given the huge effect of heavy rain and no weather forcast, I may skip the weather options.

The second tutorial was over in 3 turns. 2nd turn the WP ran into my dug in Abrams unit in the trees (90 cover rating), with 3 units. I destroyed 1 unit and damaged the 2nd with no casualties. Called in the airstrike whice destroyed the 3rd unit and suddenly won due to WP down to 18% units. I was very worried though as their sudden presence in the woods triggered every local units SOP withdrawl. My whole line collapsed into retreat to try to keep the minimum distance. Guess I need to turn off the SOP for frontline units or something like that. Even 1 recon unit can cause everyone to retreat if they make it close enough to trigger the SOP.

I look forward to a real scenario today.

Poliorcetes
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TheHellPatrol
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RE: First impressions here please

Post by TheHellPatrol »

Very solid i might add. Another huge step forward is having the manual available in the "help" menu, you can play the game AND browse the manual if need be. Without a paper manual this is a great replacement IMHO and should be done in all titles...hint, hint.[;)]
A man is rich in proportion to the number of things he can afford to let alone.
Henry David Thoreau

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Erik Rutins
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RE: First impressions here please

Post by Erik Rutins »

Just to comment on a few things - the tutorials are supposed to be pretty easy to win if you use decent tactics. There are a number of more difficult scenarios in the game. The AI is no genius, no game AI is, but it makes for a decent opponent and is certainly an excellent training and practice tool. If you have the time and opportunity, once you've gotten to beating the AI regularly try a PBEM or TCP/IP game. FPG is one of our few titles to support both options so all gamers should have a multiplayer style they enjoy.

Regards,

- Erik
Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC


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Hanal
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RE: First impressions here please

Post by Hanal »

As a long time player of the board game FULDA GAP from SPI, I am watching these first impressions with much interest....so far it seems promising....
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Catgh_MatrixForum
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RE: First impressions here please

Post by Catgh_MatrixForum »

More Comments about the AI...

During testing we had a great deal of discussion about the AI. There were times that the AI was just plain to agressive. Here you were thinking you were playing a traditional attack/defense scenario and it turns out the AI decided to make it a meeting engagement. I guess what I am trying to say, the AI does pull out some surprises at times.

Like Erik said though, eventually everyone will be able to defeat the AI.
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Oliver Heindorf
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RE: First impressions here please

Post by Oliver Heindorf »

what is SOP ? and why is game over when a unit is overrun [&:]
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Catgh_MatrixForum
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RE: First impressions here please

Post by Catgh_MatrixForum »

There is a rule when the opposing forces drop to less than a certian percentage (I don't remember it) the opposing force is considered combat ineffective, thusly playing the game is a waste of time from that point on.

SOP - Standard Operating Procedures - What the unit does when it encounter situations or when it needs to send reports about it situation back to command. Basically setting up when to fire and when to run is one of the big SOP decisions to be made.
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IronManBeta
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RE: First impressions here please

Post by IronManBeta »

Ah, you seem to be touching on two key features in the original SimCan game that we based this design on.

Main Battle Tank let you set the "standard operating procedure" for each and every unit with respect to how close enemy units were allowed to approach and how far away you were allowed to open fire at. "SOP" is the abreviation for this and it is found on the Doctrine tab of the Unit Description Panel in the bottom right corner of the main screen. It is well worth taking a look at once you get comfortable with the other mechanics of the game.

The other feature was the concept of "sudden death" if you suffered sufficiently severe losses. The game is over if your "line" combat units (infantry, tank, recon but not HQ or arty) lose 80% of their initial strength during the course of the scenario. That is a pretty horrific loss in a short time and it forces you to keep in mind that 'winning' is not enough if it costs your superior everything he entrusted you with.

Please also note that there is a rule in the victory conditions that if the game ends with sudden death then the winner gets a share of the victory points for sectors he could not otherwise claim yet. This is to prevent a 'flame-out defence' where you know you will lose but you (briefly) stop the other guy well short of his victory objectives and trigger sudden death before he can motor over and collect his winnings! I forget which of our sneaky diabolical playtesters came up with that one now, but it was a great way to minimze the success of the other side while it lasted....

I hope that this has addressed your points. If not, please let us know.

Cheers, Rob.

ORIGINAL: Oliver Heindorf

what is SOP ? and why is game over when a unit is overrun [&:]
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IronManBeta
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RE: First impressions here please

Post by IronManBeta »

When I first started the game it was possible to embed the actual rules directly into the game itself as just another screen. That was really cool but then Adobe in it's wisdom changed the licensing terms for Acrobat so that only Microsoft's Internet Explorer was allowed that trick. Sigh. It is still programmatically possible but since it is not within the terms we had to drop it.

When Matrix grows to rival Microsoft in sales, the shoe will be on the other foot and a fully embedded rules package will doubtless return to the game. Until then, we just perform a simple shell out to Acrobat Reader and pop up the rules in a standard external window. If memory serves, this took precisely one line of code, so yes it would be nice if it became more common. Don't hold your breath though - Flashpoint Germany runs as a standard Windows application (i.e. it does not take over the whole screen the way most other games do) and this is why we can pop up that standard external window. For programs using DirectX for screen rendering (ie. virtually every other game out there) you lose all that and it becomes impossible to do the job.

Thanks for noticing though, that was a big design goal in my mind when I started. It sometimes seems to me that too many games are just too darn hard to get into. They have all too steep a learning curve that deters the casually interested people. We wanted this game to be a little more on the accessible side, so we made it a regular windows app to get the help file, added in unit silhouettes for the counters (I prefer NATO symbols but then I've been reading them for 35 years), let the user turn off detailed vehicle nomenclature like "2S3" instead of "SP Arty", and created some rather forgiving game options in the setup screens to make the workings of the game a little more visible. We let the game start with all the units fully spotted if you want. (Playing with automatic spotting turned off becomes nerve-wracking in the extreme but is a lot more fun once you have climbed the curve a little.) Oh, and we spent some time and care making and documenting the two tutorials too.

Hope you enjoy the game.

Cheers, Rob.
ORIGINAL: TheHellPatrol

Very solid i might add. Another huge step forward is having the manual available in the "help" menu, you can play the game AND browse the manual if need be. Without a paper manual this is a great replacement IMHO and should be done in all titles...hint, hint.[;)]
Real and Simulated Wars
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RE: First impressions here please

Post by Real and Simulated Wars »

ORIGINAL: Catgh
More Comments about the AI...
During testing we had a great deal of discussion about the AI. There were times that the AI was just plain to agressive. Here you were thinking you were playing a traditional attack/defense scenario and it turns out the AI decided to make it a meeting engagement. I guess what I am trying to say, the AI does pull out some surprises at times.
Like Erik said though, eventually everyone will be able to defeat the AI.

Hi!
A question:
I haven't had the oportunity to check the Scenario Editor in detail, but I saw that you could create something like a random battle. This means that the enemy AI is not scripted. Isn't it? What I mean is that you just put the AI opposing force in certain place, give them some objective sector and they will figure out how to achieve their mission goal. Am I right?
Thanks in advance for the feedback.
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JudgeDredd
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RE: First impressions here please

Post by JudgeDredd »

ORIGINAL: Chelco
ORIGINAL: Catgh
More Comments about the AI...
During testing we had a great deal of discussion about the AI. There were times that the AI was just plain to agressive. Here you were thinking you were playing a traditional attack/defense scenario and it turns out the AI decided to make it a meeting engagement. I guess what I am trying to say, the AI does pull out some surprises at times.
Like Erik said though, eventually everyone will be able to defeat the AI.

Hi!
A question:
I haven't had the oportunity to check the Scenario Editor in detail, but I saw that you could create something like a random battle. This means that the enemy AI is not scripted. Isn't it? What I mean is that you just put the AI opposing force in certain place, give them some objective sector and they will figure out how to achieve their mission goal. Am I right?
Thanks in advance for the feedback.

I believe that is correct. You simply have to setup your achievment sector and the AI will get there by hook or by crook
Alba gu' brath
Real and Simulated Wars
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RE: First impressions here please

Post by Real and Simulated Wars »

Thanks Judge!
That's my kind of game!
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Oliver Heindorf
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RE: First impressions here please

Post by Oliver Heindorf »

Thank you Robert and Catgh.
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