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M4A3E2 employment - 1/19/2005 2:50:06 AM   
Dragoon 45

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I was recently reading a official U.S. Army History of the Battle of the Bulge and stumbled across an incident where the 80th Division used a complete company of Jumbo's in one of their attacks on the southern shoulder of the Bulge. My reference books state that 253 Jumbo's were built but none of them give a breakdown as to which units received them. I am guessing that the independent tank battalions received them but can't confirm this. In the above mentioned attack the 80th Div had an attached tank battalion. Also does any one know of a good reference that deals specifically with the Jumbo? I am especially curious about how well they performed in relation to a normal Sherman and what was their loss rate?


Artillery always has the Right of Way
Post #: 1
RE: M4A3E2 employment - 1/19/2005 3:53:40 AM   
Riun T


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Hey dragon,just picked up the book,Deathtraps,the survival of an American Armored division in world war II writen by Belton Y. Cooper.He was a combat command maintenance leason officer with the third armored battalion in normandy all the way to germany. he paints a very dismal tale for the lowly shermans in all their varients and describes in fairly good statistical detail {has all the numbers right cause he was there}the failings and sucesses of the allied tank fight at least from the american side. he also gives a lot of personal experiences in the battles which I thought gives u the reader a pretty good visual of how things worked. I like the book and would suggest getting it ,its a soft cover and its released by ballantine books and it cost me $11.00Can.

(in reply to Dragoon 45)
Post #: 2
RE: M4A3E2 employment - 1/19/2005 4:14:29 AM   
Orzel Bialy

Posts: 2664
Joined: 4/4/2002
From: Wisconsin USA
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The M4A3E2 Jumbo was a modified M4 which was more heavily armored than previous versions...but initially produced with the same poor performing 75mm gun before it was "up-gunned".

While it is true that only 254 were "factory" built it must be noted that US Army Field Ordnance workshops of the US 1st and 3rd Armies modified many M4s in the ETO over to Jumbos specs during the last half of 1944 and up to the end of the war.

Allocation of the Jumbo's to combat units was not done consistently, so which units received them is hard to track. They were, of course, assigned to the armored battalions and in most cases there was only one "Jumbo" per company. However, some divisions reportedly organized those they had into a complete company within the battalion to act as a heavy assault force.

You can find out a bit more about their specs here: Sherman Variants


(in reply to Riun T)
Post #: 3
RE: M4A3E2 employment - 1/19/2005 5:58:18 AM   
Dragoon 45

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Joined: 8/10/2004
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I have read Deathtraps a couple of years ago. I was looking for a more in depth reference. I recently picked up "Sledgehammers, the Strengths and Flaws of Tiger Tank Battalions in World War II" by Christopher Wilbeck. Although not finished with the book yet, it details specifically the strengths and weaknesses of the Schwere Panzer Abeltungen. What I was hoping for was a similiar resource about the Jumbo. I know the spec's and production history of the Jumbo, but have never seen any in-depth information about the employment of the Jumbo.


Artillery always has the Right of Way

(in reply to Dragoon 45)
Post #: 4
A Little History - 1/19/2005 12:57:50 PM   

Posts: 18
Joined: 9/29/2003
From: Orange Park, Florida
Status: offline
by Rich Anderson

Tank Types Available

Medium tank types utilized included the M3 Grant, M4 Sherman 75mm, M4 Sherman 76mm, and the M26 Pershing. All tank battalions that landed in Normandy were equipped with the M4 Sherman 75. However, by late June and early July of 1944, a number of M4 Sherman 76mm tanks were available and began to replace the 75mm armed tanks. Replaced M4 Sherman 75 tanks were then refitted by Ordnance workshops (when possible) with the 76mm. By late 1944 there was usually one M4 Sherman 76mm per platoon. However, the 8th, 9th, 10th, and 11th Armored divisions which arrived in late 1944 were entirely equipped with the M4 Sherman 76mm. This was also true of the divisions which arrived in 1945 (the 12th, 13th, 14th, 16th, and 20th). Of course, combat losses in these divisions were replaced by whatever was available -- which often meant M4 Sherman 75 mm tanks.

An important variant of the M4 was the M4A3E2 Jumbo assault tank. This modified vehicle was heavily armored (although all initial production models were equipped with the 75mm). Few (254) were factory built, however Ordnance workshops of the US First and Third Armies successfully modified many M4s in the field to Jumbos (between January and March 1945 the Third Army alone produced 108 of these "ersatz Jumbos," it appears that about 100 additional were produced in 1944). Allocation of the Jumbo varied. Usually they were found in the armored divisions, although some First Army separate tank battalions also had them. Normally there was no more than one "Jumbo" per company, although some divisions organized them as a complete company within the battalion.

The first M26 Pershing tanks were delivered in January 1945, the 3rd and 9th Armored divisions each being issued ten. In the 9th Armored Division these were used to form a temporary 4th Platoon in two tank companies. Those of the 9th Armored Division participated in the seizure of the Remagen Bridge. The M24 Chaffee light tank appeared in the ETO in December 1944, initially going to the 759th Light Tank Battalion, and then, as available, to the light tank companies of the armored divisions and cavalry mechanized squadrons.

Tank Destroyers

The tank destroyer force was created as a mobile GHQ antitank reserve in 1941. The original concept called for battalions to be concentrated in tank destroyer brigades and groups for employment en masse against an armored threat. In practice, the realities of combat and the erosion of the German Panzer force meant that the tank destroyers were usually attached individually to divisions.

Initial War Department plans called for the creation of 220 TD battalions, a figure that was never achieved. By the end of 1943, 106 battalions were in existence of which fifty-six served in Europe or Italy and six in the Pacific. Eleven of the remaining battalions were converted to armored field artillery, amphibious tractor, chemical mortar, or tank battalions. Thirty-six battalions were disbanded -- with their personnel going to the replacement pool.

The first TD battalions organized were fully self-propelled. However, combat experience in North Africa appeared to show that towed guns would be desirable. As a result, about one-half of the battalions were converted to towed in 1943. Unfortunately, further experience proved that towed guns were simply too immobile, making them highly vulnerable. As a result, in 1944 many of the towed battalions were converted back to self-propelled. On 1 January 1945, a total of 73 battalions were active.

The tank destroyer battalions were all organized with three companies, each company was equipped with twelve guns, for a total of thirty-six in the battalion. The early battalions also had an antiaircraft and an engineer platoon which were later discarded. A strong reconnaissance element was retained, equivalent to a mechanized cavalry troop.

The TD battalions first employed two stopgap ad hoc weapons, the M3 halftrack, which mounted an elderly 75mm gun and the M6 TD, a Dodge 3/4 ton Weapons Carrier with a 37mm AT gun crudely mounted in the truck bed. Later, in North Africa in 1943, the TD battalions began to receive the first standardized TD gun, the M10. The M10 was based on a variant of the M4 tank chassis, was lightly armored, and had poor cross-country mobility and speed. However, its 3" gun, a development of the prewar AA gun, was quite powerful for the time. By early 1944 the first purpose-designed TD appeared, the M18, and began to slowly replace the M10. The M18 was more lightly armored than the M10, but had very good cross-country mobility and impressive speed. Furthermore, the gun was an improved 3", known as the 76mm, with a more powerful cartridge case and muzzle-break, giving it greater accuracy and hitting power. Finally, also in 1944, the M36 was deployed. The M36 utilized the same chassis as the M10, but mounted the powerful 90mm gun (also originally an AA weapon). The M36 was the most powerful antitank weapon in the U.S. arsenal, with the newly developed high-velocity armor piercing rounds (HVAP, also known as APCR for Armor Piercing Composite Rigid), the 90mm was easily capable of defeating all German armor, if it could get the first hit.

The seventy-three tank destroyer battalions active and their armament on 1 January 1945 were:

There were fifty-two in the ETO: the 601st (M36, also served in Tunisia, Sicily, and Italy with M3 and M10), 602nd (M18), 603rd (M18), 607th (M36), 609th (M18), 610th (M36), 612th (M18), 614th Colored (T), 628th (M36), 629th (M10), 630th (M36), 631st (M10), 634th (M10), 635th (M10), 636th (M10, also served in Tunisia and Italy), 638th (M18), 643rd (M18), 644th (M10), 645th (M36, also served in Italy with M10), 654th (M36), 691st (M36), 692nd (T), 701st (M10), 702nd (M36), 703rd (M36), 704th (M18), 705th (M18), 771st (M36), 772nd (T), 773rd (M36), 774th (M36), 776th (M36, also served in Tunisia and Italy with M10), 801st (T), 802nd (T), 803rd (M36), 807th (T), 808th (M36), 809th (M36), 811th (M18), 813th (M36, also served in Tunisia and Sicily with M3 and M10), 814th (M36), 817th (T), 818th (M36), 820th (T), 821st (M10), 822nd (T), 823rd (M10), 824th (T), 825th (T), 827th Colored (M18), 893rd (M10), and 899th (M36, also served in Tunisia with M10). Before the end of the war in Europe eight more battalions converted to SP, the 692nd(M10), 801st (M18), 802nd (M10), 817th (M18), 820th (M18), 822nd (M18), 824th (M18), 825th (M10).

Four were in route to the ETO: the 605th (T, converted to M10 in March)), 648th (T), 656th (M36), and 661st (M18).

Four were serving in the MTO: the 679th Colored (T), 804th (M10, also served in Tunisia), 805th (T, also served in Tunisia with M3), and 894th (M10, also served in Tunisia).

Six were serving in the PTO: the 632nd (M10), 637th (M18), 640th (M10), 671st (M18), 806th (M10), and 819th (M10).

Seven remained in the US: the 606th (SP, disbanded 28 February), 611th (T, disbanded 20 February), 627th (SP, in Hawaii, disbanded 10 April), 633rd (M18, arrived in the ETO 12 April), 652nd (SP), and 670th (SP, in Hawaii, disbanded 10 April), and 816th (T, disbanded 20 February).

Like the mass employment of separate tank battalions, the deployment of the tank destroyers in mass to defeat enemy armored attacks was never actually practiced. In the Ardennes Campaign the Third Army employed one TD battalion as an augmentation to the army's Military Police force. By the end of the war it was clear that the tank destroyer experiment had no future in the army, on 10 November 1945 the Tank Destroyer Center at Fort Hood Texas was officially discontinued, ending the existence of the tank destroyer force.


Written by Rich Anderson
Copyright © 2000 Rich Anderson

You will have to research each units history for their equipment.

< Message edited by TomBell -- 1/19/2005 8:09:29 AM >

(in reply to Dragoon 45)
Post #: 5
Here Are Some Great References - 1/19/2005 3:36:17 PM   

Posts: 18
Joined: 9/29/2003
From: Orange Park, Florida
Status: offline


U.S. Tank Destroyers, WWII.................p.2
U.S. TD Units, WWII........................p.8

See also: armor4

USAMHI Armor - Tank Destroyer
dv Jun 89


A Working Bibliography

Baily, Charles M. "Faint Praise: The Development of American Tanks
and Tank Destroyers During World War II." PhD dss, Duke Univ,
1977. 264 p. UD570.3A1B2.
Doctrine and technology respond to wartime conditions.

Barney, J.P., Jr. "TDs Approach Maturity." Field Artillery Journal
34 (Nov 1944): pp. 775-778. Per.

Beaumont, Roger A. "Seek, Strike, Destroy: The Tank Destroyer Corps
in World War II." Armor 80 (Mar-Apr 1971): pp. 43-46. Per.

Blinn, Ashley A. "Tank Destroyers in Europe." Military Review XXV
(May 1945): pp. 23-30. Per.

Bruce, Andrew Davis. Papers and photographs relating to his service
as commanding general, Tank Destroyer Center, and on tank
destroyer organization and operations. Arch & PhotoArch.

Chamberlain, Peter, and Milsom, John. Self-Propelled Anti-Tank and
Anti-Aircraft Guns. NY: Arco, 1975. pp. 50-55. UD549C42.

Conger, Elizabeth Mallett. American Tanks and Tank Destroyers. NY:
Holt, 1944. 159 p. UG446.5C76.
Juvenile literature; see pp. 134-146.

Court, G.D.W. Hard Pounding...The Tactics and Techniques of Antitank
Warfare with Observations on Its Past, Present and Future.
Wash, DC: US Field Arty Assn, 1946. 137 p. UF628C6.

Dunham, Emory A. The Tank Destroyer History. Study No 29, Army
Ground Forces Historical Section, 1946. 130 p. D769.1A52no.29.

Ellmann, Gilbert A. "Panther vs Panzer." Military Review XXIV
(Aug 1944): pp. 21-26. Per.
Co B, 701st TD Bn in No African action.

Foster, Randolph V. "Armor in Jungle Operations." Student
monograph, The Armored School, Ft Knox, KY, 1 May 1946. 13 p.
(typewritten). U423.5B32.

Gabel, Christopher R. "Evolution of US Armor Mobility." Military
Review LXIV (Mar 1984): pp. 54-63. Per.

US Tank Destroyers, WWII
Page 2

Gabel, Christopher R. Seek, Strike, and Destroy: U.S. Army Tank
Destroyer Doctrine in World War II. Leavenworth Paper No 12.
Ft Leavenworth, KS: Combat Studies Institute, US Army Command
and General Staff College, Sep 1985. 90 p. D793G33.

Greenfield, Kent Roberts, et al. The Organization of Ground Combat
Troops. In the USAWWII series. Wash, DC: Dept of Army, 1947.
540 p. D769A533v.1pt.1.
See esp pp. 72-84 and index.

Howe, George F. Northwest Africa: Seizing the Initiative in the
West. In the USAWWII series. Wash, DC: OCMH, 1957. 748 p.
See index.

Jarrett, George B. Papers. Arch.

Jones, Philip Dwight. "US Antitank Doctrine in World War II."
Military Review LX (Mar 1980): pp. 57-67. Per.

Lang, Ralph W. "Tank Destroyer Development." Armored Cavalry
Journal 56 (Jul-Aug 1947): pp. 30-33. Per.

Lemp, John, and Hatfield, Ernest C. "Tank Destroyers as Assault
Guns." Field Artillery Journal 35 (Apr 1945): pp. 344-345.

Mayberry, H.T. "Tank Destroyer Battle Experience." Military Review
XXIII (Dec 1943): pp. 50-53. Per.

McCaskey, D.L. The Role of Army Ground Forces in the Development of
Equipment. Study No 34, Historical Section, Army Ground Forces,
1 Sep 1945. D769.1A52no.34.
See Chap VIII, "Tank Destroyer Program."

McNelly, R.L. "Tank Destroyers at Work - Without the Book." Field
Artillery Journal 35 (Jul 1945): pp. 396-399. Per.

Palmer, Robert R. Organization and Training of New Ground Combat
Elements. Study No 9, Historical Section, Army Ground Forces,
1946. 50 p. D769.1A52no.9.
See pp. 17-18 and 28-32.

_________, et al. The Procurement and Training of Ground Combat
Troops. In the USAWWII series. Wash, DC: Dept of Army, 1948.
696 p. D769A533v.1pt.2.
See index for scattered coverage.

Perret, Bryan. Allied Tank Destroyers. London: Osprey, 1979.
40 p. UD549P4.

US Tank Destroyers, WWII
Page 3

Redihan, Bernard F. "Towed Tank Destroyers." Military Review XXIV
(May 1944): pp. 27-32. Per.

Stanton, Shelby L. Order of Battle, U.S. Army World War II. Novato,
CA: Presidio, 1984. 621 p. RefOff.
See Chaps 5 & 28 (10 p.) for listing of units.

Stubbs, Mary Lee, and Connor, Stanley Russell. Armor-Cavalry. Pt I:
Regular Army and Army Reserve. Wash, DC: OCMH, 1969. 477 p.
See pp. 66-69.

Thornber, Hubert E. "The Tank Destroyers and Their Use." Military
Review XXII (Jan 1943): pp. 21-24. Per.

U.S. Adjutant General's Office. "Organization of Tank Destroyer
Battalions." Letter and enclosures, 3 Dec 1941. 15 p., fold-
out chart. UE160A2.

U.S. Army. The Armored School. "The Employment of Four Tank
Destroyer Battalions in the ETO." Research report, Officers
Advanced Course, 1950. 147 p. (mimeo). ARMS-RR49/50-Com 24.
628th, 644th, 704th, & 823d TD Bns analyzed.

_________. First Army. Combat Operations Data, First Army, Europe,
1944-1945. Governors Island, NY, 18 Nov 1946. ca 400 p. 03-1-
1946/3, UHRm.
See pp. 60-66.

_________. Third Army. After Action Report, Third US Army, 1 Aug
1944 - 1945. Vol II. n.p., 1945. Pt 24, "Tank Destroyer."
7 p. 03-3-1945v.2, UHRm.

_________. Forces in the European Theater. General Board.
Organization, Equipment, and Tactical Employment of Tank
Destroyer Units. Study No 60, Bad Nauheim, Ger, 1945 - 46.
31 p. D769A6no.60.

_________. Tank Destroyer Center. TD Combat Reports from Theaters
of Operations. Booklet, Feb 1944. 43 p. D793T43.

US War Dept. Tactical Employment Tank Destroyer Unit: Field Manual
18-5, 18 Jul 1944. 132 p. FM.

_________. Crew Drill, 76-MM Gun Motor Carriage M18: FM 28-26,
23 Oct 1944. 50 p. FM.
M18 tank destroyer vehicle.

US Tank Destroyers, WWII
Page 4

U.S. Army. Crew Drill, Gun Motor Carriage, M36: FM 18-18, Dec 1944.
44 p. FM.
M36 tank destroyer vehicle.

_________. 37-MM Gun, Antitank, M3: FM 23-70, 1940. 186 p.
1942 ed also.

_________. 37-MM Antitank Guns M3 and M3A1, and Carriages M4 and
M4A1: Technical Manual 9-1245, 6 Feb 1943. 138 p. TM.

_________. Field Service Regulations: Operations: Field Manual
100-5, 15 Jun 1944. pp. 313-316. FM.

_________. Tables of organization and equipment (TOE), 18-series,
with changes. Rm19.

Ward, Orlando. Papers relating to his service as commandant of the
Tank Destroyer Center. Arch.

Weiner, Fredrich. "Tank Destroyers." Trans and digested in
Military Review XLIII (Apr 1963): pp. 61-66. Per.
Brief survey of developments from WWII to 1960's.

Wolfe, Albert W. 5th Tank Destroyer Group History, 1 September 1942
to VE Day 9th May 1945. Salzburg, Austria, 10 May 1945. 15 p.
(mimeo). 304-5TD-1945, UHRm.
Annexes of maps and rosters in separately bound volumes (304-


601 - Josowitz, Edward L. An Informal History of the 601st Tank
Destroyer Battalion. Salzburg: Pustet, 1945. 95 p.
302-601TD-1945, UHRm.

605 - The 605th Tank Destroyer Battalion. Pfungstadt, 1945. 20 p.
302-605TD-1945, UHRm.

607 - Eby, Harold H. Tank Busters: The History of the 607th Tank
Destroyer Battalion in Combat on the Western Front.
Munich: Knorr & Hirth, 1945. 93 p. 302-607TD-1945,

609 - 609th Tank Destroyer Battalion, Fort Bragg, 1942. Baton
Baton Rouge: Army & Navy Pub, 1941. 71 p. 302-609TD-
1941, UHRm.

US Tank Destroyers, WWII
Page 5

610 - McGrann, Roy T. The 610th Tank Destroyer Battalion.
Pittsburgh: Geyer Print, 1946. 146 p. 302-610TD-1946,

628 - Wright, John S. "Victory TD." Gottingen, 1945. 7 p.
302-628TD-1945, UHRm.

628 - Victory TD: The History of the 628th Tank Destroyer
Battalion in Training and Combat. Ed by Elmer V. Sparks.
Gottingen: Muster-Schmidt, 1945. 201 p. 302-628TD-
1945/2, UHRm.

630 - "History of the 630th Tank Destroyer Battalion." 1945?
16 p. (Mimeo). 302-630TD-1945, UHRm.

644 - 644th Tank Destroyer Battalion. Gottingen: Muster-Schmidt,
1945. 92 p. 302-644TD-1945, UHRm.

701 - "North African Campaign Diary, 'B' Co. and 2nd Plt., Rcn.
Co., 701st TD Bn." Typescript, 1948. 25 p. 302-701TD-
1943, UHRm.

704 - The History of the 704th Tank Destroyer Battalion From D Plus
to V-E Day. Landshut: Kratzsch, 1945. 44 p. 302-704TD-
1945, UHRm.

771 - The 771 TD Bn. Abensberg: Habbel, 1945. 45 p. 302-771TD-
1945, UHRm.

773 - "Battalion History: 773rd Tank Destroyer Battalion." n.p.,
1945. 11 p. 302-773TD-1945, UHRm.

774 - Seek-Strike-Destroy: The Story of the 774th Tank Destroyer
Battalion. Nurnberg: Zimmerman, 1945. 199 p. 302-
774TD-1945, UHRm.

776 - An Infromal History of the 776th Tank Destroyer Battalion.
Salzburg: Pustet, 1945. 103 p. 302-776TD-1945, UHRm.

817 - "817th Tank Destroyer Battalion." Halle, 1945. 12 p.
302-817TD-1945, UHRm.

894 - "History of the 894th TD Bn." 2 vols. White-on-black
photostat, n.d. 302-894TD-1945, UHRm.
Vol I, Nov-Dec
1944; Vol II,
Jan-Apr 1945.

899 - 899th Tank Destroyer Battalion History: Our Battalion.
Munich: Knorr & Hirth, 1945. 95 p. 302-899TD-1945,

US Tank Destroyers, WWII
Page 6

899 - TD: A Brief History of the 899th Tank Destroyer Battalion.
Ed by David R. Haugh. San Jose: Recon Pub, 1972. 28 p.
302-899TD-1972, UHRm.

NOTE: Some tank destroyer battalions can be located in TAGO's
Historical data cards on microfilm, Rolls #22, #26, #48, #63.
(TAGO Set No 2).

See also:

- Periodical Index, which contains 30 index cards listed under "Tank
Destroyers" & ca 350 cards under "Antitank"
- Tank Destroyer Assn (in latest roster)

dv 1981


Of the two tank destroyer brigades activated, the lst Bde
participated in combat during the war but the 2nd Bde did not, being
inactivated in early 1944.

A total of thirteen tank destroyer groups participated in World
War II campaigns, viz., the 1st through the 9th, the 12th, 16th, 20th
and 23d TD Groups. In addition, unit locator cards on file here show
a 13th Tank Destroyer Group in the Philippine Islands in the latter
half of 1945.

Of the 222 tank destroyers battalions originally planned, only
106 were actually activated during the war. Commencing Apr 1943,
many of the battalions began to be inactivated so that a year later
only 68 remained.

Our unit locator cards also indicate the existence of two
separate tank destroyer companies, the 780th and 781st. See:

Dunham, Emory. Tank Destroyer History Study No 29. Hist Sec, Army
Ground Forces, 1946. pp. 36-37. D769.1A52no29.

Palmer, Robert R. Organization and Training of New Ground Combat
Unit Elements Study No 9, Hist Sec AGF, 1946. pp. 30-31.

Stanton, Shelby L. Order of Battle, U.S. Army, World War
II. Novato, CA: Presidio, 1984. pp. 233-238, Ref.

Stubbs, Mary L., and Connor, Stanley R. Armor-Cavalry. Part I:
Regular Army and Army Reserve. Wash, DC: OCMH, 1969. pp. 68-
69. RefColl.

Unit locator card file, World War II. (Pacific). TD drawer.

(in reply to TomBell)
Post #: 6
RE: M4A3E2 employment - 1/20/2005 2:13:16 AM   
Dragoon 45

Posts: 435
Joined: 8/10/2004
Status: offline
Thanks all for the info on the TD's. I guess I should restate what I am looking for. I am looking for histories of the employment of the Jumbo to include Maintenance problems or strengths, how effective they were in combat (i.e. did the increased armor stand up the the 7.5cm/L70 or the 8.8cm/L54/71), did the Jumbo's cause significant problems for the Germans as the Tigers did for the Allies, I had unconfirmed info that some Jumbo's were rearmed with a 90mm which the turret was supposedly large enough to take being designed at the outset to be upgunned, and other information in this regards. While a lot has been written about the M-4 series I have been unable to find much specifically about the Jumbo. Thanks to everyone in advance for whatever they can provide.


Artillery always has the Right of Way

(in reply to Dragoon 45)
Post #: 7
RE: M4A3E2 employment - 1/20/2005 3:52:01 PM   

Posts: 18
Joined: 9/29/2003
From: Orange Park, Florida
Status: offline
Contact some of the unit and ask them.

(in reply to Dragoon 45)
Post #: 8
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