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Planes doesn´t fly missions

 
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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> Planes doesn´t fly missions Page: [1]
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Planes doesn´t fly missions - 11/22/2004 1:51:06 PM   
Badu

 

Posts: 16
Joined: 4/27/2004
Status: offline
Hi there, i have the following problem.
I play the scen 4 as Japan against the AI.
After i take lunga and build the airfield up to level 4 i decided to start my training programm. I put some fighters and bettys on the airfield and select portattack on russel island. the base is empty and has an port size 1. but none of these planes take of. in lunga is enough suppiel and av support.
In my tests i did from Lae to buna (also empty) it works perfect.
What did i wrong?
Or is there something different betwen Russel Island and Buna?
Please help me!
Post #: 1
RE: Planes doesn´t fly missions - 11/22/2004 5:18:06 PM   
Feinder


Posts: 6587
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline
Sounds like you should be covered, but check these things...

1. Sure AF is size 4? If so, you're ok there.
2. Sure your supplies are high enough (not red or pink)? If so, you're ok.
3. What's the weather like? I've seen three thunderstorm forcasts in a row. Those often prohibit flight ops.
4. You said "AV" support. I'm guessing this is a typo, but just in case it's not. An AV unit does -not- lend air support to fighters or level-bombers. Only to floats and patrols. Make sure you have a base-force unit with sufficient air support.
5. Check the NavSearch percentage on your bombers. Maybe it's set to 100% (or very high), so there's nothing left to actually bomb with.
6. Check the CAP percentage on your fighters. Maybe it's set to 100% (or very high), so there's nothing left to send along as escorts.
7. Check the leader ratings of the squadron commander. The first number (leadership?), should be over 50. Over 60 is preferable. But that number can directly affect whether you ever get off the ground or not. Poor leadership rating means you don't launch as often.

Other than that, I have no idea why your boys aren't flying. Time to pull out the cat-o-nine-tails.

-F-

_____________________________

"It is obvious that you have greatly over-estimated my regard for your opinion." - Me


(in reply to Badu)
Post #: 2
RE: Planes doesn´t fly missions - 11/22/2004 6:08:30 PM   
Badu

 

Posts: 16
Joined: 4/27/2004
Status: offline
First thx for the reply feinder.
everything you listed is done.
but the asholes don´t take off. perhaps i have too order some executions.
something that looks strange too me is when i give them russel island as target it skips automatic to commander discion on the next day.
perhaps it is a bug. Any other ideas here?

sorry for my bad english

(in reply to Badu)
Post #: 3
RE: Planes doesn´t fly missions - 11/22/2004 7:34:03 PM   
pauk


Posts: 4162
Joined: 10/21/2001
From: Zagreb,Croatia
Status: offline
maybe your airbase is overcrowded?

Put air HQ in the base.

other than that i have no idea. Sometimes in my game my aircraft from singapore also resist to fly missions. i met all requirments, but....

(in reply to Badu)
Post #: 4
RE: Planes doesn´t fly missions - 11/22/2004 7:50:44 PM   
Sredni

 

Posts: 700
Joined: 9/30/2004
From: Canada
Status: offline
ug lol, I wish there was a little help screen showing why bombers don't fly missions. I've given up on trying to figure out why they will or won't fly them. I have blenheim's in dacca bombing myticyin and some turns they bomb some turns they don't, with no rhym or reason to it. I also have some chinese bombers in yunan/yenen (whichever is closer to mytikyin) trying to bomb mytikyin and they havn't run a single mission yet.

Then there's my b-17's in dacca bombing oil in burma. it might take them 2 or 3 turns to run a single bombing mission against an undefended target, but then they'll turn around and bomb rangoon's airfield with no escorts at all (don't ask me why the 40 avg's running escort from akyab didn't actually escort, I have no clue why not). Then they'll do nothing for several turns while those p40's are running sweeps, then having switched back to escort they'll run another bombing mission.

I agree, there's needs to be a flog command or something. Run a flog mission one turn and they tempermental, lazy, inconsistant bombers are beaten into shape for the next bombing run.

(in reply to Badu)
Post #: 5
RE: Planes doesn´t fly missions - 11/22/2004 8:08:00 PM   
dtravel


Posts: 4533
Joined: 7/7/2004
Status: offline
LAND-BASED AIR CHECKLIST

Note: this listing is for Land-Based Air units only! Carrier based air units are not subject to many of these conditions.

This listing is for Offensive Missions (p. 122) only. (Airfield attack, Port attack, Naval attack, Ground attack, Sweep, Recon.)

Any page numbers listed are the printed numbers at the bottom of the manual page. Not the .pdf file page count number. FRD means Fractions Rounded Down; FRU means Fractions Rounded Up.

References to 'morale checks', 'experience checks', and 'leadership checks' are assumed to be a d100 roll against the stated attribute. Presumably if the roll is <= the attribute then the unit passes the check. But this is an assumption. How this check is actually carried out is never stated in the documentation.

Prerequisites are conditions that must be met for a mission to be attempted at all. Once all the prerequisites are met, the number of aircraft that will actually fly is determined by subtracting from the number of 'Ready' aircraft in the unit as listed in Limitations. Finally, once you have gone thru all of that, your digital pilots may still not be able to complete the mission for any of the reasons listed under Aborts.

Some Prerequisites and Limitations have the same number. This was done when the condition was the same but the exact effects varied depending on the situation. Prerequisite #1 is an example, the minimum number of aircraft is dependant on it being a day or night mission.


PREREQUISITES:
1) (Day missions only) A minimum of two (2) ready aircraft in the unit. (p.124)
1) (Night missions only) A minimum of six (6) ready aircraft AND a minimum unit morale of 50. (p.126)
2) Target must be within unit's extended range. (p.124)
3) If the unit's morale is < 50, unit must pass a morale check to attempt a mission. (p.126)
4) The initiating airfield must be greater than size 1 (except for Recon). (p. 134)
5) The air unit must agree to fly the mission. Some of the factors affecting whether a unit will agree to fly a mission are covered in rule 7.2.2.12 (p.131).
6) Escorting fighters. The reference to this is highly confusing and can be interpreted many ways. A clarification on this is required. It has been stated that there is a maximum number of escorts that can be required. If that max is met, then the ratio of CAP:escorts becomes irrelevant.
7) Airfield damage must be less than 20+(Size*5) (p.165).
8) (Level Bombers Only) For Ground Attack missions only, the number of Ready aircraft in the unit must >= 50% of the unit's maximum strength. Does not apply if unit is joining an already initiated attack. (Undocumented. Confirmed by programmers.)

LIMITATIONS:
1) (Level Bombers Only) An experience check. Failure reduces the number of aircraft that will fly by 25% of the ready(?) aircraft. (p.127)
2) (Level Bombers Only) A leadership check. Failure reduces the number of aircraft that will fly by 25% of the ready(?) aircraft. (p.127)
3) (Level Bombers Only) A morale check. Failure reduces the number of aircraft that will fly by 25% of the ready(?) aircraft. (p.127)
4) (Level Bombers Only) Being outside the command radius of a friendly Air HQ will reduce the number of aircraft that will fly by 25% of the ready(?) aircraft. (p.127)
4) (Non-Level Bombers) Being outside the command radius of a friendly Air HQ will reduce the number of aircraft that will fly by 10% of the ready(?) aircraft. (p.127)
5) (Level Bombers Only) If the base's airfield is below a minimum size (determined by 4 + (aircraft type's max load/6500) FRD) then Level Bombers :
---a) Will fly no farther than Normal Combat Range (no Extended range missions) (p.128)
---b) Will carry a payload as though they were flying at Extended Combat Range (p.128)
---c) Will suffer increased Operational losses. (p.133)
6) If the number of aircraft at the base exceeds airfield size *50, reduce the number of aircraft that will fly by 25% of the ready(?) aircraft. (p.165)
7) If the number of aircraft at the base exceeds airfield size *100, reduce the number of aircraft that will fly by 25% of the ready(?) aircraft. (p.165) (This is in addition to Limitation #6.)
8) If it is winter in a Cold Zone, reduce the number of aircraft that will fly by 25% of the ready(?) aircraft. (p.173)
9) (Non-Level Bombers) If base supplies are not >= base requirement, a maximum of 75% of the ready aircraft will fly (p.190).
9) (Level Bombers Only) If base supplies are not >= twice base requirement, a maximum of 75% of the ready aircraft will fly (p.190).
10) (Level Bombers Only) From the 1.3 patch: “They will still resist flying against land units, if the range is greater than 10 for the Japanese or 8 for the Allies, but will do so with good rolls.”

ABORTS:
Once it has been determined that the unit will fly a mission and how many aircraft will participate, the mission may be aborted by any of the following (note: the turn processing display at the bottom of the screen will show messages if either of these applies):
1) Poor Weather. If either the initiating or target hex is experiencing bad weather (indicated on the map by a cloud symbol if "Show Clouds" has been set in Preferences) there is a chance the mission will not fly at all.
2) Navigation. There is a chance that poor navigation or an inability to find the target will cause the mission to fail. Factors affecting this are listed in rule 7.2.2.14 (p.132). In addition, Level Bombers flying from a too small airfield (see Limitations, above) will have an increased chance of this.


VERY LOW ALTITUDE ATTACKS:
If an air unit's altitude is set to 100 feet, then special rules and considerations come into play. See p.129-130. Among these are:
1) Naval attack missions will attempt "skip bombing" of their targets. Generally, should only be attempted by units with a minimum experience of 60.
2) Heavy known flak at the target may cause the unit to abort and not fly at all.
3) TFs made up of only Barges and/or PT Boats can only be attacked by fighter-bombers OR air units with an altitude set to 100 feet. (Fighter-bombers are not required to have their altitude set to 100 feet to attack these ship types.)


NOTE ON AVIATION (AV) SUPPORT:
AV support is not required to launch a mission. However, it is required to keep planes in a Ready state so they can fly and to repair any planes damaged during a mission. So air units recently moved to a base without AV support can fly a mission but are unlikely to be able to recover from it to effectively fly a second.


HINTS, RUMORS AND INNUENDO:
Some players have concluded or claim knowledge of additional, undocumented, conditions that can limit or prevent offensive missions. None of these are confirmed! If anyone reading this can CONFIRM the condition, please provide the writer with supporting evidence so that this list may be updated. Many of these appear to be based on players' experiences with other games.

a) Level Bombers have a reduced range for Ground Attack missions.
b) Level Bombers will not fly at all from undersize airfields. (see Limit 5.)
c) Ground Attack missions require the target to have an unknown minimum Detection Level.
d) Having too many Limitations apply can cause the unit to not fly, even if the math does not reduce the number of aircraft to zero.
e) The Unit Commander must have a minimum Leadership value (60?).

_____________________________

This game does not have a learning curve. It has a learning cliff.

"Bomb early, bomb often, bomb everything." - Niceguy

Any bugs I report are always straight stock games.


(in reply to Sredni)
Post #: 6
RE: Planes doesn´t fly missions - 11/22/2004 8:50:46 PM   
irrelevant


Posts: 5498
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: astride Mason and Dixon's Line
Status: offline
quote:

HINTS, RUMORS AND INNUENDO:
Some players have concluded or claim knowledge of additional, undocumented, conditions that can limit or prevent offensive missions. None of these are confirmed! If anyone reading this can CONFIRM the condition, please provide the writer with supporting evidence so that this list may be updated. Many of these appear to be based on players' experiences with other games.

a) Level Bombers have a reduced range for Ground Attack missions.


Per Kid in the 1.3 patch notes:

quote:

23) Level bombers were loath to attack ground troops. FIXED. Rewrote the targeting routines. Level bomber groups are now more willing to attack land units. The group must now have less than half the planes present damaged in order to attack. They will still resist flying against land units, if the range is greater than 10 for the Japanese or 8 for the Allies, but will do so with good rolls. They will choose a target in the assigned hex with the most useful elements. They will only fly missions against targets that have some elements undamaged or have unit supply.


_____________________________

Fear the kitten!

(in reply to dtravel)
Post #: 7
RE: Planes doesn´t fly missions - 11/22/2004 8:54:45 PM   
dtravel


Posts: 4533
Joined: 7/7/2004
Status: offline
Oops, you're right. I forgot to delete that from the Rumors section, but I did note it as Limit #10.

_____________________________

This game does not have a learning curve. It has a learning cliff.

"Bomb early, bomb often, bomb everything." - Niceguy

Any bugs I report are always straight stock games.


(in reply to irrelevant)
Post #: 8
RE: Planes doesn´t fly missions - 11/22/2004 10:01:56 PM   
Badu

 

Posts: 16
Joined: 4/27/2004
Status: offline
I stationed the figthers in shortlands and they fly each day the weather is good enough.
I think it has something to do with the distance of the air fleet HQ in Rabaul.

THX for your replys guys.

cu

(in reply to Badu)
Post #: 9
RE: Planes doesn´t fly missions - 11/22/2004 10:09:35 PM   
pompack


Posts: 2520
Joined: 2/8/2004
From: University Park, Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Badu


something that looks strange too me is when i give them russel island as target it skips automatic to commander discion on the next day.



I think that this is significant; why doesn't it hold the target? If this was simply a case of bad die rolls preventing the attack, the order should NOT revert to Cmdr decision on the next turn.

WHY is the target order reverting to Cmdr decision?

(in reply to Badu)
Post #: 10
RE: Planes doesn´t fly missions - 11/23/2004 11:08:17 AM   
michaelm


Posts: 9081
Joined: 5/5/2001
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline
One thing that comes to mind is that the Detection Level (DL) has dropped too low to make any attacks on the port.
Maybe run some RECONs to the target and build up the DL. Bombing may then follow.

Michael

(in reply to pompack)
Post #: 11
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