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Hedgerows Mod Beta Available - 10/12/2004 6:03:36 AM   
Rooster


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Hi all - Happy to announce you can download the Beta version of my hedgerows mod, which includes:

  • Terrain and graphics modification
  • New Map
  • New Scenario

Download it here.

Please give it a try and give me some feedback. It plays fine as the allies, but I had to abandon the historical narrative and give the Germans some reinforcements they just didn't get.

Thanks,

Rooster



< Message edited by Rooster -- 10/11/2004 11:04:19 PM >


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RE: Hedgerows Mod Beta Available - 10/14/2004 10:35:52 PM   
pkpowers

 

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thanks, just DL'd it, I'll give it a spin!!!!

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RE: Hedgerows Mod Beta Available - 10/16/2004 4:05:29 AM   
Grognard


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From: Madison, Wisconsin
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British Estabs for a US Division? Very different values I'm sure. Especially as it's infantry. Great map (excellent, actually), but until we can mess with Estabs ourselves...

How about Matrix giving us some kind of supplement (patch?) with standard US infantry and armoured TO&E's? Just one each. Standard '44. And maybe '43 German Pz and VG as long as they're at it?

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RE: Hedgerows Mod Beta Available - 10/16/2004 7:56:31 PM   
Rooster


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Thanks for the reply Grognard. You have a good suggestion there! It would be a nice li'l something for us fans.

I suppose there is no satisfying somebody named "Grognard" but would you rather see a "fictional" scenario with the Brits fighting in the bocage (instead of U.S. organizations based on Brit estabs)?

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RE: Hedgerows Mod Beta Available - 10/16/2004 10:07:49 PM   
Grognard


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Yes, absolutely. Gold, Sword or Juno. Let's see if Caen was a reasonable D+0 or D+1 objective. We'll find out anyway with BiN, but that's probably a couple of years down the road. I'm a retard as far as doing a map myself (it seems pretty intimidating) but if I had a bigger choice of Estabs I might try learning.... As might a lot of us fans.

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RE: Hedgerows Mod Beta Available - 10/18/2004 2:13:49 AM   
Arjuna


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There will be a bucket load od Estabs coming out with COTA. Steve "Golf33" Long can elaborate. We will be releasing US Army 44/45 estabs with Battles from the Bulge ( BFTB ). This will be game four in the series.

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RE: Hedgerows Mod Beta Available - 10/18/2004 7:33:30 AM   
Grognard


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If Bulge is #4 are you counting from RDOA as #1? HTTR #2 COTA #3? Or is BiN in there somewhere? And the '43 TO&E's (Estabs) for German Pz and VG Div's are huge as they (in addition to US Div's) would give us the ability to re-create most of the war in the west (Tunisia, Sicily, Italy). Assuming COTA has a sampling of Italian units, all we need to do is work on desert terrain to get us to Libya (yummy). Too bad the map for that entire theater would be too much of a monster. TOAW (flawed as it was) CFNA still one the best ever campaign mods IMO. And forgive me if someone has already asked, but does COTA have a hypothetical FJ drop on Malta? If not, I think you'll see one soon after its release.

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RE: Hedgerows Mod Beta Available - 10/19/2004 2:24:49 AM   
Arjuna


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Grognard,

Yes RDOA was #1. Two of our beta testers ( Bil Hardenberger and Al Vannoy ) have been quietly working on developing another title to be called "Dragon's Teeth" that will cover the battles along the Sigfried line in late 44/early 45. This is more than likely to be #5. Given the fair amount of adverse comment from gamers complaining "not another Normandy game" we might leave this for a bit. I haven't definitely decided yet - we'll wait and see. In the meantime, there is no shortage of development work for us.

Yes COTA does include Malta. Steve "Golf33" Long is hoping to cover two hypothetical invasion scenarios - one for 41 and another for 42.

With the COTA estabs there should be plenty of scope for customised scenarios. You could certainly develop a number of "smaller" battles from North Africa like Battleaxe. The battle for Lemnos would be a good one. The civil war in Greece 44/45 would be another one. In fact you could use the existing HTTR estabs for this.

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RE: Hedgerows Mod Beta Available - 10/19/2004 11:03:43 AM   
Grognard


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Thanks for your very interesting reply Arjuna.

With BFTB & Dragons Teeth (great name!) we'll get Estabs for US Div's and COTA will give us pre '44 German TO&E's (before they diluted their Divs). And, of course, with HTTR we have British Estabs. Perhaps even without releasing BiN you could share whatever amphib stuff you have already developed in another title? It would seem a waste not to.

The reason for my interest is I dearly want to try to mod Avalanche. The only units that I will be missing are US Rangers and British Commandos. In a pinch Paras could do.
I have some ideas on how to model naval support (without it Gen Clark would have been treading water) and 3 maps would probably work as there was really no overlap in operations between the Special Forces, British and American sectors.

I have always thought Avalanche has been a very neglected operation in the gaming world and have always wondered why. From a play balance standpoint alone I can't think of a more even contest. Much varied terrain, para drops, offense and defense aplenty for both sides, the gamut of unit types, air parity etc etc et al. And of course, XXX Corps to the rescue!!

What do you thimk? Is it do-able? With which of your upcoming titles do you suggest I wait for to commence?

Sincerely and many thanks....

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RE: Hedgerows Mod Beta Available - 10/19/2004 11:50:57 AM   
TMO

 

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quote:

Given the fair amount of adverse comment from gamers complaining "not another Normandy game" we might leave this for a bit.


Please don't shelve it - Normandy is the one I'm REALLY looking forward to.

Tim

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Post #: 10
RE: Hedgerows Mod Beta Available - 10/20/2004 12:18:49 AM   
Arjuna


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Grognard,

To do an amphibious operation properly we would need to add in off-map fire support, model defensive obstacles, like wire and minefields and certainly for Normandy model a whole pile of specialist vehicles/equipment ( Hobart's "funnies" ). These are do-able but certainly not trivial tasks. At the moment I am head down and tail up trying to finish off changes for COTA - the mixed mode movement has been very difficult but is almost done. Once we have COTA out the door and can see daylight again we'll reappraise the priorities on our wish list. Obstacles and off-map spt may make it into BFTB. But we'll see.

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Post #: 11
RE: Hedgerows Mod Beta Available - 10/20/2004 4:58:35 AM   
Grognard


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From: Madison, Wisconsin
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Thanks for the dialogue - it is much appreciated...

My idea on naval support:

Static artillery unit counters on the beach to represent where the ship bombardment crosses overhead with calibre appropriate strength and inland ranges.

Defensive wire/abatis is a terrain mod (impedes movement only?) and art. However, Engineers must be able to remove (or place) them....

Mines could probably be some kind of bombardment trigger and again removable by Engineers.

Special function Shore Engineers (enhanced supply/beach movement etc) would be another addition.

Event triggers such as: destroy an enemy shore battery - get additional supply/naval support or capture an enemy airfield (e.g. Montecorvino) get more air support or airlanded reinforcements.

Some of these are doable now and some probably must be coded but some might also be able to be handled with a more powerful editor. Any plans there?

< Message edited by Grognard -- 10/20/2004 9:12:45 AM >


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RE: Hedgerows Mod Beta Available - 10/21/2004 1:49:36 AM   
Arjuna


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Grognard,

Thanks for the suggestions. Given our other priorities we are not likely to be getting to these real soon now.

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Post #: 13
RE: Hedgerows Mod Beta Available - 10/23/2004 4:55:51 AM   
Rooster


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Well - I think there's a few people that have downloaded this and tried it. But I've gotten zero feedback, which means it probably needs work!

If you love it or hate it, let me know. I can take it.

Meantime, I'm embarking on a new map and scenario that I think can live on the units provided with the game (ie. US AB vs. a mixture of German units). This will take a while, so anyone wanting to lend a hand, let me know... http://night-drop.blogspot.com/




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RE: Hedgerows Mod Beta Available - 10/23/2004 6:16:08 PM   
PzKpfw III

 

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No, it's probably because no one is reading this forum By "no one" I don't mean to imply that those who do are nothing, but rather that very very few people read it. What a shame for such a good game.

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Post #: 15
RE: Hedgerows Mod Beta Available - 10/24/2004 6:21:49 AM   
Tactics


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I think alot of people like to lurk and prefer not to comment. I have a link for the Hedgerow mod and host a HTTR sound mod as well as one of JeF's scenarios. The break down is below and so far, no comments on our forum regarding any of the 3.

HeartBreak Ridge Scenario
Description: This is the remake of Heartbreak Ridge, a small 12 hour scenarios.
Version: Filesize: 0 bytes
Added on: 08-Sep-2004 Downloads: 14

Hedgerows Expansion Pack - Beta
Description: Hedgerows Mod Expansion Pack BETA version contains hedgerows terrain modification, new map, and new Normandy-based scenario. Includes map cache file for faster play.
Version: BETA 1.01 Filesize: 4.67 MB
Added on: 16-Oct-2004 Downloads: 6

New Sounds
Description: Changes almost all of the orignal sounds. Some nice effects, try it and see.
Version: Filesize: 0 bytes
Added on: 08-Sep-2004 Downloads: 40

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Post #: 16
RE: Hedgerows Mod Beta Available - 10/24/2004 9:42:45 PM   
daft

 

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It is indeed a little too quiet in here for a game of this caliber. I'm doing my best to promote the game and introduce friends - both online and IRL - to HTTR, but so far none of them have made a purchase.

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RE: Hedgerows Mod Beta Available - 10/25/2004 4:09:11 AM   
Rooster


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Yeah - I just think a lot of folks aren't posting anything. By my count there's 15 - 20 or so dl's from the site where I'm hosting the mod. Plust the 6 from Tactics's site. So, there ought to be some opinions. But I don't know if most people are the posting type.

Make sure your friends know that this game is getting mods and new scenarios... well worth their $$$$$



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Post #: 18
RE: Hedgerows Mod Beta Available - 10/25/2004 9:07:01 PM   
loyalcitizen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rooster

Well - I think there's a few people that have downloaded this and tried it. But I've gotten zero feedback, which means it probably needs work!

If you love it or hate it, let me know. I can take it.


Like it a lot. Played it this weekend. Got into a giant slugfest, then noticed that no points are scored for destroying the enemy. Next time, I'll try manuever warfare.

Two Comments
1. Maybe it was just because my battle centered around the Crossroads victory location, but I thought that if the Crossroads was an Occupation point site instead of a Completion point site, it would create some urgency in linking the two fronts.

2. Motorized units travel faster over clear terrain than over roads through hedgerows. And the computer knows it, as it prefers clear over roads when tasked with a "Quickest" order. Sure, the sunken lanes are no open highway, but clear terrain shouldn't be THAT clear. Maybe use polder instead of clear?

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RE: Hedgerows Mod Beta Available - 10/26/2004 2:16:08 AM   
Golf33

 

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Remember that only units moving in Road Column get the benefit of roads - if a unit isn't going to be moving in Road Column it could well be faster to travel through Clear terrain than to travel through the bocage terrain which would be affecting its movement.

Regards
33

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RE: Hedgerows Mod Beta Available - 10/27/2004 1:12:38 AM   
Willard


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I have been delinquent in my posting here.
Unfortunately I just moved and the house is in shambles with boxes everywhere.
I hope to devote more time to the forum and HTTR gameplay in a few weeks.
This month has just been way too busy.

Anyway, Rooster the mod looks great and I did check out your site which was excellent.
Before the move I was playing with the map editor. The problem I was having was the scale and detail of the map. I simply couldn't find anything appropriate on the internet and I did spend some time looking. Some of the links on you site were good, but it did take some digging before I got some maps with promise...though the detail/elevation was severely lacking in my first attempt.

I do think the reason for the lack of activity here has to do with a couple of issues.

First - The lack of a linked campaign is a drawback to some players. You see alot of one time posters with the same question "Where is the grand campaign."

Two - The lack of hexes turns alot of grognards off. I love the fact that there are no hexes. However the hardcore wargamer still grasps at hexes like a security blanket. There has to be a way to turn the hardcore gamer on to this revolutionary new system.

Three - The campaigns covered. RDOA and HTTR have been covered before in other game systems. COTA is really going to cover a theatre never before covered in a game that I know of (anyone know of one please chime in!). That is good and that is bad. Because Arnhem and the Bulge have been covered alot in previous titles the gamer has a tendency to respond "Oh another Bulge game..." It will be interesting to see the response to COTA.

Four - The solution, IMO --- The best way to fix this would be to release a North Africa game. This system was *MADE* for mobile warfare in the desert. No hexgame has ever been able to realistcally model the movement warfare in the desert like this one could. I think a North Africa game would satisfy everything ---- it would need a campaign game, but the engine would demonstrate that hexes were obsolete.

Five - And finally, I know this has been talked about before, but this system would be great for a brigade level game ---- think Eastern Front Barborossa campaign with this chain of command system of Army Groups-Armies-Corps-Divisions-Brigades. Totally awesome!!! I don't know what the limitations would be, but it seems to me that you would simply need to increase the scale several steps to get the desired result.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rooster

Yeah - I just think a lot of folks aren't posting anything. By my count there's 15 - 20 or so dl's from the site where I'm hosting the mod. Plust the 6 from Tactics's site. So, there ought to be some opinions. But I don't know if most people are the posting type.

Make sure your friends know that this game is getting mods and new scenarios... well worth their $$$$$




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Post #: 21
RE: Hedgerows Mod Beta Available - 10/27/2004 5:09:16 AM   
Rooster


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ORIGINAL: loyalcitizen

quote:

…like it a lot. Played it this weekend. Got into a giant slugfest, then noticed that no points are scored for destroying the enemy. Next time, I'll try maneuver warfare


Thanks! I think your comments are excellent - I will definitely be changing the crossroads VL so that you accrue occupation points. This is a vital link up for the fronts.

Your second comment is interesting and I will definitely look at populating the open terrain with more orchards, light woods etc. I am also thinking about tuning the hedgerow terrain to be less demanding... at least a little bit. Finally, I think that I will put a couple of VLs in the hedgerows to soak up some of the allied units. In the actual battle, they were assigned objectives that were off the beaten path... roads assuredly existed, but just as they are abstracted into the maps I used, they are also abstracted into the hedgerow terrain.




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RE: Hedgerows Mod Beta Available - 10/27/2004 5:17:48 AM   
Rooster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Willard

Two - The lack of hexes turns alot of grognards off. I love the fact that there are no hexes. However the hardcore wargamer still grasps at hexes like a security blanket. There has to be a way to turn the hardcore gamer on to this revolutionary new system.



Hi Willard - interesting. Hopefully other Grogs will evangelize this game a bit. I don't think I qualify as a grog, but the game seems to be built on the kinds of data that's important for realism. It's very detailed - however the game gives the player a choice of how to filter/use the data. The AI is really good too, imho.

Good luck getting moved in! Thanks for the comments.

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