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Newbie help. - 9/21/2004 8:32:23 PM   
ancient doctor

 

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Hello everybody.I have been a lurker for some time and finally made the huge()decision to sign in.
Anyway i have some question about the game which unfortunatelly were not answered by the manual and several Word documents included.
1)In 1941 senario CVs start with less planes than their capacity but i guess they will be reinforced.The question is:if a CV has 3 units(1 fighter,1 dive,1 torpedo)what is the max. capacity that each of them can have in planes?I read in the documentation that each fighter unit has a max of 48 planes while dive/torpedo bombers a max of 36.No if you add them(1x48 plus 1x36 plus 1x36) they form a max of 120 planes whih is impossible to have in a CV(other than Midway type)so what is the max. plane capacity of CV air units?
2)What happens if i loose the unit of a CV completely during air combat or loose the CV itself?Will the air units of the CV reappear later?
3)Is it possible to put new air units in a CV(naval air units i mean like those extra Zero units in 1941 OOB) or transfer the existing ones out of their parent CV to another ship or land base?If yes how do i do that?
4)There is a J9 Kikka type of planes in Japanese TOE that will apear late in the game,these are numbered as dive bombers but i am almost sure that Kikkas were supposed to be jet fighters?So any info about it whould be nice.Anyway IF they are dive bombers which units can be upgraded by them?I tried the IJAAF dive units but they wont accept them and the same applies to IJNAF dive units so what is wrong?
Thanks for any answers in advance.

P.S. How many posts do i have to have before becoming a moderator?
Post #: 1
RE: Newbie help. - 9/21/2004 10:29:18 PM   
Capt. Harlock


Posts: 5221
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quote:

1)In 1941 senario CVs start with less planes than their capacity but i guess they will be reinforced.The question is:if a CV has 3 units(1 fighter,1 dive,1 torpedo)what is the max. capacity that each of them can have in planes?I read in the documentation that each fighter unit has a max of 48 planes while dive/torpedo bombers a max of 36.No if you add them(1x48 plus 1x36 plus 1x36) they form a max of 120 planes whih is impossible to have in a CV(other than Midway type)so what is the max. plane capacity of CV air units?
2)What happens if i loose the unit of a CV completely during air combat or loose the CV itself?Will the air units of the CV reappear later?
3)Is it possible to put new air units in a CV(naval air units i mean like those extra Zero units in 1941 OOB) or transfer the existing ones out of their parent CV to another ship or land base?If yes how do i do that?


1) The capacity rating of a carrier is fixed in the game, but this was not the case in the actual event. For one thing, the mix of aircraft was shifted when it was found how crucial fighters were, and that fighters could be used as bombers with a little extra hardware. Also, aircraft got both larger and smaller: larger to handle the demands of more armor, weapons, and range, and smaller when folding wings were introduced. (e.g. the F4F-4 variant of the Wildcat was heavier than the F4F-3, but thanks to folding wings a carrier could pack about half again as many F4F-4's.) So, I'm afraid there is no definite answer to your question. US carriers start the war with about 27 fighters, go up to 36 in mid-1942, and in some cases have as many as 54 by the end of the war.

2) It is pretty difficult to wipe out a carrier squadron entirely. There's almost always a disabled aircraft that stays behind. When the carrier sinks, however, all squadrons on board go down with it. (See below.)

3) As far as I know, squadrons are permanently attached to their respective carriers. (One of the limits of Pacific War -- Grigsby designed it in DOS, and so was constrained by the 640K memory limit.)

_____________________________

Civil war? What does that mean? Is there any foreign war? Isn't every war fought between men, between brothers?

--Victor Hugo

(in reply to ancient doctor)
Post #: 2
RE: Newbie help. - 9/21/2004 11:43:16 PM   
ancient doctor

 

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Thanks for the quick answer.
Now i need some definitions.I know by checking the Okinawa(?)senario that some US CVs fighter units start with 54 planes and that was strange because they are supposed to have a max of 48.Anyway if by editing the CV capacity value i make CV carry 120 planes does that mean that while fighter numbers will continue to grow the other 2 CV air units will remain stuck in more or less 20 planes that they start the war with or that eventually each unit will reach its maximum(48/36/36) as this max. is printed in the Word document which is with the game?
Oh and what about the J9 Kikka in game?Anybody who has an idea about the type of the unit in game and the upgrade path that leads to it because obviously it cant upgrade existing dive bomber units(IJAAF or IJNAF).
1 last question:If i disband a unit it is supposed to return as reinforcement after 6 months(according to the manual).Will it arrive with the same category of planes(fighter unit disbanded->fighter unit return)or there is a chance that i will decide its type or will be random?
Also has anybody noticed if H6K patrol planes can be upgraded to H8K?According to paths given they should but when i go to a H6K unit and press the C(change)button other types wont appear.

< Message edited by Ancient seaman -- 9/21/2004 9:44:18 PM >

(in reply to Capt. Harlock)
Post #: 3
RE: Newbie help. - 9/23/2004 3:46:50 PM   
ancient doctor

 

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I have a feeling that this forum isnt really having much attention.
Anyway i found something which is curious.By using the editor given in the game and 1 more that i got from the net i found out that if i make CV capacity of a Jap CV(dont know for USN)more than the original(84->120)then its air groups will keep on getting planes as replacements in a different pattern than the one mentioned in manuals.Which menas that the dive and torpedo bomber groups in the CV might go to above 36 planes per unit.1 more strange thing is that even if there are enought replacements planes in the pool CV planes above the carrier will never reach the number printed but will stay lower no matter how many turns i wait.For example i printed Kaga capacity from 84 to 120 planes and the max i had incide was 102.Even more when i reprinted to 150 planes Kaga got up to 122(IIRC).
Oh BTW it seems that althought editors work ok i have a problem with Akagi which is the 1st ship class in the appropriate file.Everything for Akagi can be printed and accepted except its CV capacity which no matter how much planes i print the 81 original number wont change in game.Doing the same to other CV had no problem so if someone reads the forum and has some idea pleasetell me.

(in reply to ancient doctor)
Post #: 4
RE: Newbie help. - 9/23/2004 5:23:14 PM   
Denniss

 

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Don't know what happens with Akagi but might be a problem with the slot number the ship or its class resides in .

With max aircraft :
AFAIK later in the game most allied CV reach their maximum number (somewhere 1942 AFAIK) .
Don't know if this ever happens to Jap CV

(in reply to ancient doctor)
Post #: 5
RE: Newbie help. - 9/23/2004 7:59:11 PM   
crusher

 

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hi: patrol planes auto upgrade when a new type becomes ready also there has to be a amount of planes produced before the computer will upgrade

(in reply to Denniss)
Post #: 6
RE: Newbie help. - 9/23/2004 10:05:02 PM   
ancient doctor

 

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Well the problem with H6K to H8K modernisation is that after i edited the arrival date of H8K to 0(start from game turn 1)and put a lot to the pool,units with the older model refused to upgrade.When i clicked on them and pressed C the upgrade screen didnt appear.
Anyway the most difficult for me is to understand the pattern of CV capacity and how planes are distributed between CV air units up to its capacity because obviously they dont fall under the rule of 48 fighters/fighter bombers and 36 dive/torpedo bombers.That is why it might be a hidden(?)feature or the last patch that put these max. didnt took in consideration the rule for CV air units.
Anyone give a tip for Akagi's edit,as i said the only problem seem to be the edit of its capacity,all other data are accepted after editing them.Or maybe is a bug since 2 editors i have used have the same problem.
BTW does anybody know how i can add ships to a certain ship class?Like more Shokaku units to arrive?How and where do i edit that?

(in reply to crusher)
Post #: 7
RE: Newbie help. - 9/23/2004 11:07:52 PM   
Denniss

 

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you must have a free ship slot to add a new ship - specify a name then a class the ship is based of .
Don't forget to add two or three Air units to appear on this ship

Using the full capacity on CV and how much planes each units have is an .exe based upgrade to show historical achievements how to operate xxx numbers of planes on a single carrier (increased with folding wings) and other things like Kamikaze Attacks so more fighters and less bombers

(in reply to ancient doctor)
Post #: 8
RE: Newbie help. - 9/24/2004 7:00:00 AM   
Capt. Harlock


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quote:

Anyway i found something which is curious.By using the editor given in the game and 1 more that i got from the net i found out that if i make CV capacity of a Jap CV(dont know for USN)more than the original(84->120)then its air groups will keep on getting planes as replacements in a different pattern than the one mentioned in manuals.Which menas that the dive and torpedo bomber groups in the CV might go to above 36 planes per unit.1 more strange thing is that even if there are enought replacements planes in the pool CV planes above the carrier will never reach the number printed but will stay lower no matter how many turns i wait.For example i printed Kaga capacity from 84 to 120 planes and the max i had incide was 102.Even more when i reprinted to 150 planes Kaga got up to 122(IIRC).
Oh BTW it seems that althought editors work ok i have a problem with Akagi which is the 1st ship class in the appropriate file.Everything for Akagi can be printed and accepted except its CV capacity which no matter how much planes i print the 81 original number wont change in game.


My best guess is that this has to do with some of the "hard-wiring" in the program code. Gary Grigsby coded some things into the execution code rather than the data files, and it occasionally give people fits when they try to alter the game parameters. It seems to me that there are percentages of the carrier plane capacities used which change depending on what point in the campaign the game is at. Thus, the Kaga will not load planes to its maximum capacity until later in the war. (The "PW Hints" file lists some of the changing capacities, if you can find it on the Internet.)

Akagi was a one-of-a-kind ship, so Grigsby may have used "hard-wiring" for its plane capacity. (Of course, Kaga was one-of-a-kind as well.)

For conversion of H6K to H8K, you may have to wait until the H8K's regular arrival date, about a year into the game. (If you're curious, try editing one of the later-starting scenarios.)

_____________________________

Civil war? What does that mean? Is there any foreign war? Isn't every war fought between men, between brothers?

--Victor Hugo

(in reply to ancient doctor)
Post #: 9
RE: Newbie help. - 9/26/2004 8:25:27 PM   
ancient doctor

 

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OMG.The more i play it the more i am getting amased.This game is one of the most complex strategic games i have ever played and beliave me that i had a lot.
There is something that i dont like however.It seems that there are some undocumented feature(hidden?)like CV capacity which is not explained.I even found the Hints in the net and there i saw that it mentions that CV wont get the full capacity but nothing more.so since i dont like at all such surprises i whould prefer if everything is as clear as crystal.
Anyway i cant belaive that they made such a game back in DOS era.Amazing.

BTW i have a question.In the wordpad readme file part 2 it says that version 3.2 has some changes of the LCU established strenght.Does anybody know the maxes of Inf/Art/AFV for every type of unit in Japs OOB?For example it seems that Jap inf. divisions have a 243 inf. max/48 art. max/18 AFV max but a few of their 1941 units start with more so what is going on?

I have a trouble also.It seems that LCU wont obey the march order i give them when i control their HQ.So i land LCU somewhere and supply them.Wait till the round finish and the next one i order them to move when readiness in high enought.Now even IF they move by correct path to an enemy base they wont attack the enemy's LCU there althought that readiness is high enought and they wont attack even the next rounds.So anybody with an advice?

(in reply to Capt. Harlock)
Post #: 10
RE: Newbie help. - 9/27/2004 5:14:13 PM   
Sardaukar


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ancient seaman


BTW i have a question.In the wordpad readme file part 2 it says that version 3.2 has some changes of the LCU established strenght.Does anybody know the maxes of Inf/Art/AFV for every type of unit in Japs OOB?For example it seems that Jap inf. divisions have a 243 inf. max/48 art. max/18 AFV max but a few of their 1941 units start with more so what is going on?



I think this is also in War in the Pacific. Historically some Japanese units started their attack with extra troops and equipment to use as replacements and boost the attack. When those extras are used the normal strengths return and they don't replace higher than normal composition.

Cheers,

M.S.

(in reply to ancient doctor)
Post #: 11
RE: Newbie help. - 9/28/2004 2:32:07 AM   
Capt. Harlock


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quote:

I have a trouble also.It seems that LCU wont obey the march order i give them when i control their HQ.So i land LCU somewhere and supply them.Wait till the round finish and the next one i order them to move when readiness in high enought.Now even IF they move by correct path to an enemy base they wont attack the enemy's LCU there althought that readiness is high enought and they wont attack even the next rounds.So anybody with an advice?


LCU attacks are not automatic: they depend upon the odds on the ground, the PP's of the HQ, and the agressiveness of the commander. IIRC you need at least 4-to-1 odds in troops to attack reliably.

_____________________________

Civil war? What does that mean? Is there any foreign war? Isn't every war fought between men, between brothers?

--Victor Hugo

(in reply to ancient doctor)
Post #: 12
RE: Newbie help. - 9/28/2004 5:18:22 PM   
Sardaukar


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Capt. Harlock

LCU attacks are not automatic: they depend upon the odds on the ground, the PP's of the HQ, and the agressiveness of the commander. IIRC you need at least 4-to-1 odds in troops to attack reliably.


Indeed, never forget to assign good leader to combat units. And what's best, with experience, they may improve their statistics. USMC has Vandengrift (spelling ?), Geiger, Smith & Smith (very famous in USMC history, brothers I think)..UK has Slim and couple of others (Schoones maybe).

Cheers,

M.S.

(in reply to Capt. Harlock)
Post #: 13
RE: Newbie help. - 9/28/2004 9:14:08 PM   
ancient doctor

 

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Wait a minute here.Now since my HQ does have a good leader what for is to assign another one for the units in combat?I mean the manual says that the "on the spot"CiC gets +1 in his rating but it doestn look that important.

Now i have another question.I know that HQ gives PP for the units.So here is the deal.In the 1st round of 1941 combat i never play historical in order to have the chance with the Japs to do it my way.Now i usually send in Phillipen islands 1 division from Tokyo,1 unit from Formosa(Taiwan) and for the south ones(Davao)i send units from Palau(?) plus more later.Now all of them have different HQs.Is there going to have any importancew that?Because i havent seen anything concerning HQ in the manual except the PP.So eventually when all the Phillipines are captured they will have base taken from units belonging to different HQ.Will this be a problem?Now lets say that i decide to transfer all the units that will stay there into 1 HQ and put theis HQ in a Phillipine base.Will this do any good in my units there if all are under 1 HQ which is CLOSE?Does it matter how close are units to an HQ(theirs or other) for any reason?
BTW how do i transfer an HQ to another base?Since i cant see it in the map how do i know its location?By checking the HQ button a lot of places apear so where exactly is the HQ?

(in reply to Sardaukar)
Post #: 14
RE: Newbie help. - 9/28/2004 10:32:14 PM   
Capt. Harlock


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From: Los Angeles
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quote:

BTW how do i transfer an HQ to another base?Since i cant see it in the map how do i know its location?By checking the HQ button a lot of places apear so where exactly is the HQ?


The best way is to use the "find an HQ" command, which causes a list of all HQ's to pop up. This list displays HQ location, target location, computer control status, and current preparation points.

As for multiple LCU's in the same base, that is a good question. If you activate the LCU's for combat in a friendly-controlled base (to drive out whatever enemy troops may be infesting the area), the LCU's will be assigned to the HQ controlling the base. This is the way to transfer troops from one HQ to another. But if the base is enemy-controlled, I'm afraid I don't know what happens.

_____________________________

Civil war? What does that mean? Is there any foreign war? Isn't every war fought between men, between brothers?

--Victor Hugo

(in reply to ancient doctor)
Post #: 15
RE: Newbie help. - 9/30/2004 5:35:38 PM   
ancient doctor

 

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Ok i have more or less managed to find some answers for my quesition with your extremely usefull help so thanks to all of you.

Now 1 more thing:How do i change the starting base of a sub unit?What i mena is that Jap player during war gets all his new sub groups starting in Tokyo which is far from any possible theater of action.Now i DONT want to change the location that they will appear in the 1st time.I just want to redeploy them so that their base will be an outpost closer to the front because IIRC it matters the distance from the base for subs.
Any ideas?

(in reply to Capt. Harlock)
Post #: 16
Submarine Re-Basing - 10/1/2004 5:42:42 AM   
Capt. Harlock


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It's not hard to do, but a little cumbersome. Put the cursor over the base you intend to make the new home port. Go into sub mode (Alt/M). Assign the base as the new patrol area for the sub group you want to re-base. Then use the (R)emove subs command to make the subs enter the port. Your subs will now show up under ships in port, but with a delay. (They will not be able to sail for another turn.)

_____________________________

Civil war? What does that mean? Is there any foreign war? Isn't every war fought between men, between brothers?

--Victor Hugo

(in reply to ancient doctor)
Post #: 17
RE: Newbie help. - 10/1/2004 1:17:19 PM   
Sardaukar


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ancient seaman

Wait a minute here.Now since my HQ does have a good leader what for is to assign another one for the units in combat?I mean the manual says that the "on the spot"CiC gets +1 in his rating but it doestn look that important.

Now i have another question.I know that HQ gives PP for the units.So here is the deal.In the 1st round of 1941 combat i never play historical in order to have the chance with the Japs to do it my way.Now i usually send in Phillipen islands 1 division from Tokyo,1 unit from Formosa(Taiwan) and for the south ones(Davao)i send units from Palau(?) plus more later.Now all of them have different HQs.Is there going to have any importancew that?Because i havent seen anything concerning HQ in the manual except the PP.So eventually when all the Phillipines are captured they will have base taken from units belonging to different HQ.Will this be a problem?Now lets say that i decide to transfer all the units that will stay there into 1 HQ and put theis HQ in a Phillipine base.Will this do any good in my units there if all are under 1 HQ which is CLOSE?Does it matter how close are units to an HQ(theirs or other) for any reason?
BTW how do i transfer an HQ to another base?Since i cant see it in the map how do i know its location?By checking the HQ button a lot of places apear so where exactly is the HQ?


I think there was more benefits than just having +1 for "on the spot" commander. Even though I cannot find it in manual (indeed, nowadays cannot even find my manual..), I think there is another check made by computer when you have "on the spot" commander, with that +1 rate. That is always helpful to avoid defaulting to dreadful "rate 3" commander. And that +1 is 10 % increase on scale from 1-10 (of course one cannot get leader rates higher than 9, so commander on-site with agressiveness rate 9 will attack 100 % of the attempts (depending on PPs and supply) and same in HQ only 90 %. So there are couple of very agressive Japanese land commanders that can help tremendously during early expansion.

I think there was also penalty to distance. If your HQ is over 20 hexes away from combat, and you don't have on-site commander, computer uses rate 3 for combat and agressiveness. And closer the HQ is, more supply you are supposed to get...mainly when it's question of land routes. Very important in Burma. I usually transfer my SEAC HQ as close to fighting I can.

Some of the menus I use very much are "Relocate HQ, Change Base (to different HQ) and Find HQ". I think there is also some PP trouble if you have too many bases under one HQ, same with Task Forces. That is when those US Army HQs and Fleet HQs that appear during 44-45 are so useful. They take lot of burden away from SW/South/CentPac HQs.

And Capt H., Thank's about the sub tip, I have always wondered that but never found the answer. Now I can get my subs more efficient.

Cheers,

M.S.

< Message edited by Sardaukar -- 10/1/2004 11:20:08 AM >

(in reply to ancient doctor)
Post #: 18
RE: Newbie help. - 10/2/2004 6:17:45 AM   
returnfire

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Capt. Harlock

As for multiple LCU's in the same base, that is a good question. If you activate the LCU's for combat in a friendly-controlled base (to drive out whatever enemy troops may be infesting the area), the LCU's will be assigned to the HQ controlling the base. This is the way to transfer troops from one HQ to another. But if the base is enemy-controlled, I'm afraid I don't know what happens.



I used the Okinawa scenario (obc_g) to confirm this, and here are the results regarding LCUs in an enemy-controlled base:


1. Look at the FIRST friendly unit on the list. If the first unit is from a restricted HQ, then activating friendly LCUs in that base will subtract PPs from their original HQs. The HQ of the units in that base will not change as a result of activation.

(By "restricted HQ," I mean "those HQs with the 10x PP penalty for relocating the HQ and activating units. This includes Imperial GHQ, 6th Area Army and CEA for the Japanese Player, and CMF, 4th Army and KMT for the Allied Player.

Note that although Imperial GHQ and CMF are restricted in terms of the 10x PP penalty for relocating the HQ and activating units, units and bases under these HQs *can* be re-assigned to other HQ's if the base is under YOUR control.)


2. If the first unit on the list is from a non-restricted HQ, activating other units in the base *will* re-assign them to the same HQ as the first unit unless you used the "HQ units" command to find and activate the unit-- in this case, the original HQ will pay the PP's and no reassignment will take place (the latter method is a bit tricky, but this method can allow you to pile dozens of divisions into one base and activate all of them without running out of PP's).

==> Try this in the Okinawa scenario with the Allied units in Rangoon. De-activate the second unit and reactivating it will reassign it to SEAC.

The only exceptions, of course, are those units that are attached to restricted HQs. If you attempt to activate an unit under a restricted HQ AND the first unit is from a non-restricted HQ, the non-restricted HQ will pay 10x the cost to activate the unit under the restricted HQ without re-assigning it.

==> Again, you can try this in the Okinawa scenario. First, go to Kweilen, and march the first KMT army from Kweilen to Kweiyang. Now the Chinese army under CBI should be the first unit in Kweilen. De-activate a KMT army there, and re-activate it. You'll notice that CBI command only has 5 PPs left because activating a KMT army costs you 120 preparation points.


By the way, here's another interesting fact: If there is an unit under a restricted HQ under a base attached to a non-restricted HQ (e.g. Suichuan in the Okinawa scenario-- this can also happen without hard-coding the scenario if both restricted and non-restricted units are used to capture an enemy base), don't activate them if possible. They will still cost you 10x the preparation points, and that's subtracted from the non-restricted HQ.

Moral of the story: If you're playing as the Allies, please ask Chiang Kai-shek to evacuate all of his armies (there are 12 of them) attached to KMT to Chungking. That way, you can minimize casualties and save PP's and supply :)

< Message edited by returnfire -- 10/2/2004 5:12:46 PM >

(in reply to Capt. Harlock)
Post #: 19
RE: Newbie help. - 10/2/2004 11:26:36 AM   
ancient doctor

 

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In terms of activation and unit transfer here is what i have seen.If you capture a base with an LCU from an army(lets say 15th)and then transfer to that base a unit from a different army(32 army f.e.) and activate this LCU in that base then the unit will automatically been transfered to the army that initially captured the base.
Anyway.Now does anybody know what i should do so my subs will attack TF as well?Also i have found in Jap41 campaign only 1 good spot for subs to attack ships.This spot is 1-2 hexes below Tarawa.Does anybody has an idea for other wolf laires for the Japs?
1 more thing.How important is the distance between the sub base and its patrol hex?I know it IS important but i whould like some facts on that if available.

(in reply to returnfire)
Post #: 20
RE: Newbie help. - 10/2/2004 1:07:32 PM   
Sardaukar


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From: Finland/Israel/Bulgaria
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ancient seaman
Anyway.Now does anybody know what i should do so my subs will attack TF as well?Also i have found in Jap41 campaign only 1 good spot for subs to attack ships.This spot is 1-2 hexes below Tarawa.Does anybody has an idea for other wolf laires for the Japs?
1 more thing.How important is the distance between the sub base and its patrol hex?I know it IS important but i whould like some facts on that if available.


Subs attack TFs quite unregularly, but there is not much that can be done about that, except positioning. I've had my US subs sunk even IJN CVs, and my US TFs have been attacked by IJN subs too.

Outside Sydney is good spot for IJN subs too, since Sydney is one of the harbours where routine convoys are initiated. LA is one too, but bit far.
US subs can concentrate to choke point between Philippine Islands and Formosa (Taiwan), but for IJN it's more complicated. South of Tarawa is good, close base and just next to US-Australia convoy route. Convoy routing is not totally rigid in 3.X versions, so they can vary a bit.

It's quite important that subs are based so that they don't exceed their range. That affects to their effectiveness quite a bit. And further the base is, longer they remain out of station due to need to resupply.

Cheers,

M.S.

(in reply to ancient doctor)
Post #: 21
RE: Newbie help. - 10/9/2004 12:46:31 PM   
cgray

 

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quote:

Does anybody has an idea for other wolf laires for the Japs?

Just northwest of Palmyra (around coordinates 69,42) is a pretty good spot for the Japanese too.

(in reply to ancient doctor)
Post #: 22
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