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Why Blame Percival . . .

 
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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> Why Blame Percival . . . Page: [1]
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Why Blame Percival . . . - 8/25/2004 2:53:52 AM   
Blackhorse


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. . . when Air Chief Marshall Sir Robert Brooke-Popham was the overall commander of British forces in Malaya, Burma and China until December 27th, 1941?

One reason might be that he was a lame duck -- Churchill told him in November that he was going to be relieved. Another might be that he only had a staff of seven [?!] which made it harder for him to exercise control as C-in-C. But he had the responsibility for the defense of Malaya, and was given the authority to order Operation Matador (the pre-emptive occupation of the beaches and airfields in Thailand). B-P ordered the advance into Thailand on December 6th, when it might have done some good, but he dithered and postponed the advance until after the Japanese had already landed.

I guess the designers had a difficult choice -- unlike Pearl Harbor, where Kimmell and Short have different commands (Navy and Land) in Malaya Percival commanded the ground forces and reported to Brooke-Popham, who commanded all the air and ground forces in the theatre.

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RE: Why Blame Percival . . . - 8/25/2004 3:33:30 AM   
Cap Mandrake

 

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Wait..he couldn't take pre-emptive action in Siam without the consent of the League of Nations. Where would he derive his international legitimacy?

Interesting point about seizing points further up the peninsula...but wouldnt they have been simply outflanked by the Japanese landing at Khota Baru? The entire campaign was one of short-lived defensive positions followed by hasty retreats.

While were throwing blame around...who was in charge of Hong Kong? I read that two green Canadian Bns were sent to Hong Kong not two weeks before the war broke out, even though the Brits had determined the position was ultimately indefensible.

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RE: Why Blame Percival . . . - 8/25/2004 4:29:51 AM   
Mogami


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Hi, Thats why the Brits sent the Canadians.


"Sir, Hong Kong needs reinforements"
"Hong Kong cannot be held, who ever we send will be lost"
"How many Austrailans we have?"
"None their all in Singapore"
"OK send them a few Canadians"

< Message edited by Mogami -- 8/24/2004 9:32:52 PM >


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RE: Why Blame Percival . . . - 8/25/2004 5:00:01 AM   
madmickey

 

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Mogami
You have enough British Empire loyalists in Canada who thought sending troop to Hong Kong was a good deal.
Of course I think the British Empire to direct attention away from what the British government did originally fomented a lot of the anti-Americanism in Canada.

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RE: Why Blame Percival . . . - 8/25/2004 5:07:37 AM   
fbastos


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Why blame Percival?

Easy thing - they couldn't blame Canada!



F.

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RE: Why Blame Percival . . . - 8/25/2004 5:30:52 AM   
gts2096


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mogami

Hi, Thats why the Brits sent the Canadians.


"Sir, Hong Kong needs reinforements"
"Hong Kong cannot be held, who ever we send will be lost"
"How many Austrailans we have?"
"None their all in Singapore"
"OK send them a few Canadians"


LOL.......I know nothing about combat in the Pacific, but I can tell you this, them Canadians are a tough bunch when it came to the ETO. At least thats what Gramp's said.....and a few books i read......

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RE: Why Blame Percival . . . - 8/25/2004 7:00:01 AM   
Blackhorse


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quote:

While were throwing blame around...who was in charge of Hong Kong? I read that two green Canadian Bns were sent to Hong Kong not two weeks before the war broke out, even though the Brits had determined the position was ultimately indefensible.


That would be . . . Brooke-Popham, again! His command encompassed all British air and land forces (but not naval) in Burma, Malaya, Singapore and China. Percival, however, was directly responsible for all land forces. And Brooke-Popham was responsible for Percival -- he had relieved Percival's predecessor (worse than Perse? the mind boggles!) and brought Percival in to straighten things out.

. . . or so say my on-line sources

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RE: Why Blame Percival . . . - 8/25/2004 7:09:00 AM   
madmickey

 

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Of course the British appointed the King cousin Louis Battenberg aka Mountbatten (no more German names) as CIC SouthEast Asia. His previous command experience was having a destroyer sunk under him and being in command of the "brilliant" Dieppe raid.

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RE: Why Blame Percival . . . - 8/25/2004 8:44:54 AM   
Luskan

 

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See the other post for my opinion. Percival ignored a direct order to defend the obvious invasoin zone on singapore. It cost him. Enough said.

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RE: Why Blame Percival . . . - 8/25/2004 9:05:17 AM   
esteban


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There is a definite movement on this board to rehabilitate Percival. He sucked swampwater, but they want to rehabilitate him nonetheless....

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RE: Why Blame Percival . . . - 8/25/2004 2:39:00 PM   
strawbuk


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quote:

ORIGINAL: madmickey

Of course the British appointed the King cousin Louis Battenberg aka Mountbatten (no more German names) as CIC SouthEast Asia. His previous command experience was having a destroyer sunk under him and being in command of the "brilliant" Dieppe raid.


REVERSED the Kelly into a minefield once. Great basis for a film though.

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RE: Why Blame Percival . . . - 8/25/2004 4:11:55 PM   
madmickey

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: strawbuk

quote:

ORIGINAL: madmickey

Of course the British appointed the King cousin Louis Battenberg aka Mountbatten (no more German names) as CIC SouthEast Asia. His previous command experience was having a destroyer sunk under him and being in command of the "brilliant" Dieppe raid.


REVERSED the Kelly into a minefield once. Great basis for a film though.



You have to remember that a mine explosion rarely kills the commander on the bridge and where would the possible House of Mountbatten be if that happened.

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RE: Why Blame Percival . . . - 8/25/2004 4:27:30 PM   
dday


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well, he did died from an explosion on broad his ship (sailboat) in the late 70's.

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RE: Why Blame Percival . . . - 8/25/2004 4:52:12 PM   
strawbuk


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quote:

ORIGINAL: madmickey


You have to remember that a mine explosion rarely kills the commander on the bridge and where would the possible House of Mountbatten be if that happened.



Don't under first part of that! But on second where would relatively smooth transfer to Indian independace be? I sense I am speaking to a fellow republican (none donkey variety for our US viewers).

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Seeking Kido Bu-tai
Flying o' the sea so high
An ill-omen in the sky
Twinkle twinkle PBY
Pointing out who's next to fry

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RE: Why Blame Percival . . . - 8/25/2004 5:05:24 PM   
Cap Mandrake

 

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The Japanese were tough jungle fighters but the defence of the Malay Peninsula sucked big time. There were a case of Commonwealth forces holding a river line with an intact bridge. The Japs just asked for volunteers to drive a couple of armored cars right across the bridge under fire and the line broke. Similarly, I don't understand the surprise about outflanking manouvres in dense terrain. Was that a new idea at the time? Had they never heard of Vicksburg (or insert your favorite example here)?

Then there is Singapore with water supply from the mainland? Huh? That is a known weakness of fortresses since at least 500 BC.

There is a bit of blame to be thrown around re Plan Orange too.

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RE: Why Blame Percival . . . - 8/25/2004 5:24:56 PM   
madmickey

 

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Stawbuk

Anti-Monarchist as well.
Louis wanted Lizzie to change her name from Windsor (yeah change your German name to an old castle) to Mountbatten after she married Prince Phillip of Germany excuse me Greece. Louis plotted the marriage in the 1930s. As far as Louis keeping himself safe remember that he kept his SEAC headquarter in Colombo thousands of miles away from the front. You really do not want even an occasional bombing raid to be a threat. Mines blow up below water line thus the commander on the bridge is not really endangered.

< Message edited by madmickey -- 8/25/2004 3:28:10 PM >

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