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Matrix folks... online store and VAT.. - 4/4/2004 2:02:02 AM   
Hertston


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From: Cornwall, UK
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Just a little miffed to notice that VAT ("value added tax")was added to the price, after I had placed my order for CotD. Like every other Brit and Euro (I suspect) I had expected the price quoted to be VAT inclusive.

As you are Americans, and don't suffer this I'll let you off - but I will explain why we expect the price to be "what you see is what you get".

VAT is a consumer tax. The law requires that it is added to the price of goods or services by the company/person(s) selling them provided their business exceeds a set annual turnover. This tax is then accounted for to the Treasury concerned, but the business can deduct the amount of VAT that they have themselves paid to others during the same accounting period.

How does this relate to "Herts expects", you will be asking (if you aren't asleep yet). There are two ways in practice that prices are listed in catalogues, advertisements, store shelves, etc. The first is when the anticipated customer is a business. In this instance the price of goods are shown net of VAT. This is because the net price is effectively what those goods will cost the business, as the additional VAT that is payable can be reclaimed. The second is to the public. In this case, prices are shown gross of VAT, as (obviously) this cannot be reclaimed - what you see is what you pay. Brit/Euro customers do not therefore expect to see VAT tacked on afterwards.

Could you therefore please consider the following;

1. Changing the price displayed to the gross figure (best option)

or

2. Make it clear that the displayed figure is net of VAT, and that this will be added.

You are likely to annoy a few people if you don't .


BTW.. great game.
Post #: 1
RE: Matrix folks... online store and VAT.. - 4/4/2004 5:18:38 AM   
David Heath


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From: Staten Island NY
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Hi

I am looking into this.

David

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RE: Matrix folks... online store and VAT.. - 4/4/2004 6:35:43 PM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

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I think I would be saying what a lot might have said, when I say, god I am glad I don't live in Europe (where commercial matters are concerned).

In Canada, I have to deal with Provincial tax (7%) and GST (goods and services tax 8%). Some provinces only require GST.
But it is a constant and easy thing to manage.

I am unaware (to be honest) if there currently exists any odd entanglements to anything crossing the border to get to me, but it is a simple matter to ditch. I just get a US friend to order it and remail it. A minor deal at most.

Plus we have an expanding number of local in Canada options.

From the sounds of things, trying to order anything from here (North America) headed to there (Europe), must be a thoroughly unrewarding experience.

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I LIKE that my life bothers them,
Why should I be the only one bothered by it eh.

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RE: Matrix folks... online store and VAT.. - 4/4/2004 7:07:08 PM   
Ol_Dog


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From: Southern Illinois
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You pay it either way - if it is added to the cost as a separate item, then you Brit/Euro would be more like U S - mad as H*LL about all the tax you pay



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If you think you have everything under control, you don't fully understand the situation.

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RE: Matrix folks... online store and VAT.. - 4/4/2004 7:27:48 PM   
Belisarius


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From: Gothenburg, Sweden
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ol_Dog

You pay it either way - if it is added to the cost as a separate item, then you Brit/Euro would be more like U S - mad as H*LL about all the tax you pay




It's quite common here to list prices with and without VAT, since companies don't pay VAT, only consumers. And yes it's hell to pay those extra 6-25% on top.

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Got StuG?

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RE: Matrix folks... online store and VAT.. - 4/5/2004 6:50:12 AM   
Golf33

 

Posts: 1962
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From: Canberra, Australia
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Australian customers will expect to see the price inclusive of GST before ordering as well. I believe it's an offence to list a price that is not inclusive of GST without specifically stating so.

Regards
33

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Steve Golf33 Long

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RE: Matrix folks... online store and VAT.. - 4/5/2004 11:55:33 AM   
Marc von Martial


Posts: 10872
Joined: 1/4/2001
From: Bonn, Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Les_the_Sarge_9_1

I think I would be saying what a lot might have said, when I say, god I am glad I don't live in Europe (where commercial matters are concerned).

In Canada, I have to deal with Provincial tax (7%) and GST (goods and services tax 8%). Some provinces only require GST.
But it is a constant and easy thing to manage.

I am unaware (to be honest) if there currently exists any odd entanglements to anything crossing the border to get to me, but it is a simple matter to ditch. I just get a US friend to order it and remail it. A minor deal at most.

Plus we have an expanding number of local in Canada options.

From the sounds of things, trying to order anything from here (North America) headed to there (Europe), must be a thoroughly unrewarding experience.



You´re wrong. VAT is actually NOT added when you order from outside the European Union, what you pay for is an Import tax (which is for most of the part the same ammount then the VAT). The VAT % is constant, and that for the whole country, not specific for a province or a federal state as in the US. So actually this is easier then your system ;).

Ordering from overseas is actually very easy and comfortable. I do it a lot. You just have to bear in mind that your country will charge you for import. But honestly, that´s something everybody should know, at least suspect

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RE: Matrix folks... online store and VAT.. - 4/5/2004 3:52:27 PM   
Ross Moorhouse


Posts: 2354
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From: Sydney, Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Golf33

Australian customers will expect to see the price inclusive of GST before ordering as well. I believe it's an offence to list a price that is not inclusive of GST without specifically stating so.

Regards
33


I think when Golf33 says its an offence here he dosn't mean that its rude. He means it's against the law.


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Ross Moorhouse

Project Manager
www.csosimtek.com
Email: rossm@csogroup.org

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Post #: 8
RE: Matrix folks... online store and VAT.. - 4/5/2004 7:29:40 PM   
David Heath


Posts: 3274
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From: Staten Island NY
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Hi Guys

Matrix will add the following statement to the shopping cart so as to avoid any future issues:

Pursuant to the Digital VAT Directive, as of 1st July 2003, European customers will be charged VAT (Tax) on all downloadable digital products and services, including software at 17.5%.

A VAT invoice can be viewed and printed at the end of your purchase.


I hope this fixes the issue for everyone.

David

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Post #: 9
RE: Matrix folks... online store and VAT.. - 4/5/2004 8:28:25 PM   
Hertston


Posts: 3564
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From: Cornwall, UK
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Ideal. Thanks, David.

(in reply to David Heath)
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RE: Matrix folks... online store and VAT.. - 4/5/2004 10:00:03 PM   
Belisarius


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From: Gothenburg, Sweden
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Excellent David. Thanks for that.

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Got StuG?

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RE: Matrix folks... online store and VAT.. - 4/5/2004 10:28:00 PM   
Hartford688

 

Posts: 261
Joined: 3/23/2004
From: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
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Have to say...I saw the same thing last week. Ordering from The Netherlands. Very glad you you now have the Euro warehouse, but as Herston says, the "not mentioning the VAT" thing is a) not normal in most of Europe and b) may not be legal (tho' some VAT expert may correct me on this). Plus, re David's solution...17.5% VAT is correct for the UK, but not for all countries in the EU.

Interestingly, as Tommi on my thread in the httr forum noted...he had no VAT added though he is in Finland...EU, have VAT. Is this perhaps because your warehouse company has no presence in Finland? Seems odd.

This is for physical delivery, not digital download.

OK, I'm fine to pay VAT on top of costs...if I'm warned up front. I want Matrix to make it's due profit (and not suffer the tax itself) so it is around to produce great games. But (as an accountant - sorry, embarassing I know) getting VAT wrong on websites, invoices could be very tricky. Customs can be very harsh...and as I say, I want Matrix to do well. Would be a shame to see you get problems from not getting this VAT thing right.

But I may have got the details wrong of course...VAT law is a nightmare.

< Message edited by Hartford688 -- 4/5/2004 9:46:10 PM >

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RE: Matrix folks... online store and VAT.. - 4/5/2004 11:41:51 PM   
Hertston


Posts: 3564
Joined: 8/17/2002
From: Cornwall, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hartford688

But I may have got the details wrong of course...VAT law is a nightmare.


Man, that's true. Fortunately I just get to deal with income and corporation tax, and leave the VAT to the specialists

It's an area where expert advice is essential. From Matrix's point of view, though, they just need to mention that VAT will be charged... the technical stuff is presumably dealt with by Digital River.

I agree on the rates, 17.5% is the UK VAT rate, but it isn't standard across the EU. A nightmare, as you say.

(in reply to Hartford688)
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RE: Matrix folks... online store and VAT.. - 4/5/2004 11:56:21 PM   
Dagfinn

 

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Joined: 1/20/2003
From: Western Norway
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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Heath

..., European customers will be charged VAT (Tax) ...


I surley hope you mean members of the European Union...

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