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RE: Fog of War

 
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RE: Fog of War - 12/22/2009 6:34:37 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Skanvak

That is correct, Mannerheim is finnish (I read somewhere something that make me think he was Russian, I should have double check). But he was a Russian General and made all he carrer in the Russian Army (including school) before independance of Finland (of which he always commanded the troop and sometime govern the country). Well without him, Finland would have been annexed by the soviet.

Warspite1

Indeed.


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RE: Fog of War - 12/23/2009 2:46:22 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: marcejap


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Mannerheim was Finnish .


He began his military career in the Russian army. He took part of WWI fighting austrians and germans.

Welcome to the forum.

Try looking at some of the threads at the top of the forum for references to some of the more popular threads.

If you have questions, simply ask.

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Perfection is an elusive goal.

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RE: What Do You Think Needs to be in World In Flames PC... - 12/24/2009 1:02:33 PM   
SingSteve

 

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This is probably a dumb question for my first (but I'm sure not my last) posting, but can someone please tell me: what exactly is the current status/nature of the WiF computer game? Is it finished? Is it available? Does it have AI or is it 2+ players only? The sheer volume of information on the matter has left me confused. I've been a fan of the board game since its earliest editions and can scarcely believe the long wait is over. Is it? Is someone out there playing it?

Also if it is available then I might as well start asking around for online opponents. If the play system is as "faithful" to the original as has always been promised, and as the screen shots on the Matrix site seem to suggest, then presumably both/all players will need to be logged on at the same time to make various tactical decisions (retreat? and in which direction? etc). In which case is there anyone in the Perth/Singapore/Hong Kong/Beijing time zone (give or take a few zones/hours) who would be interested in playing? If it really is available I'll be getting it immediately and if it really is "faithful" to the original it shouldn't take long to get the hang of it, so I'll be looking for opponents quite soon. I'm breathless with anticipation!

Please tell me if it is true.
Steve

(in reply to David Heath)
Post #: 633
RE: What Do You Think Needs to be in World In Flames PC... - 12/24/2009 7:28:08 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SingSteve

This is probably a dumb question for my first (but I'm sure not my last) posting, but can someone please tell me: what exactly is the current status/nature of the WiF computer game? Is it finished? Is it available? Does it have AI or is it 2+ players only? The sheer volume of information on the matter has left me confused. I've been a fan of the board game since its earliest editions and can scarcely believe the long wait is over. Is it? Is someone out there playing it?

Also if it is available then I might as well start asking around for online opponents. If the play system is as "faithful" to the original as has always been promised, and as the screen shots on the Matrix site seem to suggest, then presumably both/all players will need to be logged on at the same time to make various tactical decisions (retreat? and in which direction? etc). In which case is there anyone in the Perth/Singapore/Hong Kong/Beijing time zone (give or take a few zones/hours) who would be interested in playing? If it really is available I'll be getting it immediately and if it really is "faithful" to the original it shouldn't take long to get the hang of it, so I'll be looking for opponents quite soon. I'm breathless with anticipation!

Please tell me if it is true.
Steve


Welcome to the forum.

I post a monthly report on status around the first of each month. I have been doing this since August of 2005, so if you are software development historian, the complete set should be interesting reading.

You aren't? Oh, well then, the thread When contains my monthly reports and if you start with the most recent post and work your way backward, you should find my latest for December 1st 2009. I'll write a new one ~January 1st.

The threads at the top of the forum have links to many of the more commonly viewed threads (e.g., screen shots). Another way of finding the most popular threads is to scan through the list looking for the ones with the most posts and hits.

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Post #: 634
RE: What Do You Think Needs to be in World In Flames PC... - 12/25/2009 5:39:52 AM   
SingSteve

 

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What needs to be in the WiF computer game? One general suggestion that has probably already been made before: a sensible limit to placing newly built units on the map and to supplying those already built, i.e. not every "city" deserves the name and, while they are necessary for other game purposes, it shouldn't be possible to create an armored corps (or any other kind of unit for that matter) in, or support a large force from, some of the smaller, more isolated population centers. In many years of playing the board game we used various house rules to cover this; with the computer game's huge map and extra cities (which I thoroughly approve of) it will be all the more important to prevent the creation and supply of large forces in out of the way places. Anyway, as I have said this has probably been raised before, perhaps even solved without my knowing it, but if it hasn't I think it's vitally important: I've lived in Vorkuta (North-Eastern European Russia) and think, for example, it deserves a place on the map for its strategic location (despite being much smaller than 100k at the time) but you shouldn't be able to raise an army in a place where you can't grow potatoes.

By the way, I'm still confused about one thing: is feedback limited to looking at screenshots etc, or am I right in thinking a version of the game without AI is available for play-testing? I'd be very interested if it is!

Steve

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Post #: 635
RE: What Do You Think Needs to be in World In Flames PC... - 12/25/2009 8:02:36 AM   
flipperwasirish


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Merry Christmas!

There are threads on all aspects of the game including the different sections of the map. While the "search" function on the forum isn't the greatest, you should be able to find some threads that interest you.

To answer your question, MWIF is not available yet, it is in Beta testing I believe. Once in a while there is a call for more testers, so keep looking if you have interest in that.



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RE: What Do You Think Needs to be in World In Flames PC... - 12/29/2009 7:34:38 AM   
Blorsh


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At CWiF some times an indian recourse is send to australian factory (for example) instead of using australian resources, it can be changed but the change normally is not "memorized" and at diferent turn phases I have to check in order to organize naval movements, return to base and the like so when the subs start breaching the pipelines I have to check and change it a los of times in a turn I expect the MWiF AI would be better with that.

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RE: What Do You Think Needs to be in World In Flames PC... - 12/29/2009 1:02:42 PM   
brian brian

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SingSteve

What needs to be in the WiF computer game? One general suggestion that has probably already been made before: a sensible limit to placing newly built units on the map and to supplying those already built, i.e. not every "city" deserves the name and, while they are necessary for other game purposes, it shouldn't be possible to create an armored corps (or any other kind of unit for that matter) in, or support a large force from, some of the smaller, more isolated population centers. In many years of playing the board game we used various house rules to cover this; with the computer game's huge map and extra cities (which I thoroughly approve of) it will be all the more important to prevent the creation and supply of large forces in out of the way places. Anyway, as I have said this has probably been raised before, perhaps even solved without my knowing it, but if it hasn't I think it's vitally important: I've lived in Vorkuta (North-Eastern European Russia) and think, for example, it deserves a place on the map for its strategic location (despite being much smaller than 100k at the time) but you shouldn't be able to raise an army in a place where you can't grow potatoes.



I agree with this completely. The ability to continually raise new military forces in out of the way places in World in Flames can get very silly at times. The playability abstractions necessary to play WWII at this scale are going to happen, but this doesn't really need to be one of them in my opinion. The paper game has a new module, Factories in Flames, that begins to address this issue, though I have not had a chance to try it, and it won't be a part of the first edition of the computer game. Using the oil rule can also help dampen the silliness factor of isolated cities somewhat.

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Post #: 638
RE: What Do You Think Needs to be in World In Flames PC... - 6/3/2010 4:33:22 AM   
Patience


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Steve,


This may sound odd.  I trim the edges off my counters at the corners at a 45 degree angle.  I find the counter have a much cleaner look and fit better into the Hexes.  Not sure if this is something you want to do but it does make the counters look a lot cleaner.  The trim is about 1/16th of an inch in from the corner.  I can send you a scan if your need me too.  Its not that important but just a thought.

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RE: What Do You Think Needs to be in World In Flames PC... - 6/3/2010 8:41:05 AM   
paulderynck


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I do the same. It also keeps the corners from catching on each other. And it's easy - there's only 14,400 corners to trim for WiFFE.

However there's lots of screen caps in the threads on this forum showing the MWIF map and counters and they look great already, plus I have yet to see them catch on one another.

Edit: Lots of us use the MWIF counters for our avatars, including me.

< Message edited by paulderynck -- 6/3/2010 8:42:19 AM >


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RE: What Do You Think Needs to be in World In Flames PC... - 6/3/2010 3:24:53 PM   
micheljq


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My friend trims the counters because this way they fit better in the counter magnets.

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RE: What Do You Think Needs to be in World In Flames PC... - 6/3/2010 4:50:38 PM   
abj9562


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I always use nail clippers and trim the corners. Pretty quick and easy.

For MWiF, I believe the counter shapes and sizes were fixed a few years ago.

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RE: What Do You Think Needs to be in World In Flames PC... - 6/3/2010 5:04:14 PM   
composer99


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A lot of MWiF forum regulars (like, say, me) use MWiF counters for avatars. These are nicely rounded at the corners.

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RE: What Do You Think Needs to be in World In Flames PC... - 6/3/2010 6:38:36 PM   
Patience


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Yea, lol,  this is what happens when your up late drinkin with friends .  you think you have a good idea and the next day you say to yourself.  that was dumb!   lol

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RE: What Do You Think Needs to be in World In Flames PC... - 6/3/2010 11:50:56 PM   
paulderynck


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A sales friend of mine had one like that. He had to write it down because it was such a great idea and he was afraid it would be all gone in the morning.

The next morning when he could get his eyes to focus on the scrap of paper, he read: "Say please to the customer."

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RE: What Do You Think Needs to be in World In Flames PC... - 6/4/2010 12:18:49 AM   
abj9562


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quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

A sales friend of mine had one like that. He had to write it down because it was such a great idea and he was afraid it would be all gone in the morning.

The next morning when he could get his eyes to focus on the scrap of paper, he read: "Say please to the customer."




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by abj9562 -- 6/4/2010 12:19:31 AM >


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RE: What Do You Think Needs to be in World In Flames PC... - 6/4/2010 5:47:25 PM   
Zorachus99


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quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

A sales friend of mine had one like that. He had to write it down because it was such a great idea and he was afraid it would be all gone in the morning.

The next morning when he could get his eyes to focus on the scrap of paper, he read: "Say please to the customer."


Made me cough up coffee :)

Deep.

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RE: What Do You Think Needs to be in World In Flames PC... - 6/4/2010 7:11:28 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Patience

Steve,


This may sound odd.  I trim the edges off my counters at the corners at a 45 degree angle.  I find the counter have a much cleaner look and fit better into the Hexes.  Not sure if this is something you want to do but it does make the counters look a lot cleaner.  The trim is about 1/16th of an inch in from the corner.  I can send you a scan if your need me too.  Its not that important but just a thought.

I am using a standard algorithm for rounding corners. I played around with different levels of rounding and settled on the slight rounding the you can see on many of the forum members' avatars.

My main motivation for keeping the rounding slight was because I wanted the extra room for the information displayed on the unit depiction. There are 8 levels of zoom and while only 6 of them contain enough pixels to be legible, I do use virtually all the space available. For instance, the names of the HQs use the maximum vertical space, the bitmaps for the naval units use the maximum horizontal space, and the bitmaps for the air units often use all the space: naval air units (diagonal), special air units (no paradrop, death's head, etc), long/multiple names.

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RE: What Do You Think Needs to be in World In Flames PC... - 6/4/2010 8:42:11 PM   
Patience


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Thanks Steve,

It was a dumb thought and the counters in your JPGs look great!!. 


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RE: What Do You Think Needs to be in World In Flames PC... - 6/7/2010 11:47:23 PM   
Simulation01


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quote:

the small 5 turn Barbarossa offensive in Russia and the 5 turn Guadalcanal battle in the Pacific, through to the 36 turn Global War campaign which spans all of Europe, Africa, the Middle East, Asia, the Atlantic, and the Pacific.



This troubles me to no end. 36 turns!!! WTF!!!! Please tell me that is a typo!! There absolutely MUST be at least an option to continue after the 36, 5 or however many turns limit there is for the scenario(s). Also, America must be able to be invaded. I'm not sure if it is already possible but seeing as how it's not in the scenario's and judging by how short the term limit states...I'm concerned that it isn't possible to do that. I must be able to invade my Homeland!! Also, I rather like Alternate history's!! Some alternate history scenarios would be incredibly fun and allowing for diplomatic changes would be awesome..as in say Stalin and Hitler allying or something( I'm not meaning in the same since as the Von Ribbentrop pact lol ).

< Message edited by Simulation01 -- 6/7/2010 11:48:34 PM >


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RE: What Do You Think Needs to be in World In Flames PC... - 6/8/2010 3:21:27 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Simulation01

quote:

the small 5 turn Barbarossa offensive in Russia and the 5 turn Guadalcanal battle in the Pacific, through to the 36 turn Global War campaign which spans all of Europe, Africa, the Middle East, Asia, the Atlantic, and the Pacific.



This troubles me to no end. 36 turns!!! WTF!!!! Please tell me that is a typo!! There absolutely MUST be at least an option to continue after the 36, 5 or however many turns limit there is for the scenario(s). Also, America must be able to be invaded. I'm not sure if it is already possible but seeing as how it's not in the scenario's and judging by how short the term limit states...I'm concerned that it isn't possible to do that. I must be able to invade my Homeland!! Also, I rather like Alternate history's!! Some alternate history scenarios would be incredibly fun and allowing for diplomatic changes would be awesome..as in say Stalin and Hitler allying or something( I'm not meaning in the same since as the Von Ribbentrop pact lol ).

Are you familiar with World in Flames? Each turn is composed of multiple impulses (from 3 to 15+, with an average ~6). So, measured in impulses, we are talking 108 times that players move their units (54 per side). Patrice has better statistics than this - I am just working from my fragile memory cells.

As for invading the US, that is close to impossible in WIF. Or more precisely stated, if the Axis is so far ahead that invading the USA is possible, no one is interested in continuing to play the game (it beomes as challenging as coloring in book for 4 year olds)..

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RE: What Do You Think Needs to be in World In Flames PC... - 6/8/2010 4:41:43 AM   
Simulation01


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I'm not sure what to think now.  I'm certainly disappointed with respect to invading the USA, however these impulses are not something I've heard of.  I was expecting WIF to be like Axis and Allies on steroids....

I am used to turn based games like Civilization IV and Galactic Civilizations II.  These "impulses" sound like turns within turns or "waves" of changes before actually hitting the turn button....I am certainly confused.  I have steered away from games like War in the Pacific because of their tendency to be simple rehashes of old battles, while I prefer to control the entire war instead.


_____________________________

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RE: What Do You Think Needs to be in World In Flames PC... - 6/8/2010 5:03:09 AM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Simulation01

I'm not sure what to think now.  I'm certainly disappointed with respect to invading the USA, however these impulses are not something I've heard of.  I was expecting WIF to be like Axis and Allies on steroids....

I am used to turn based games like Civilization IV and Galactic Civilizations II.  These "impulses" sound like turns within turns or "waves" of changes before actually hitting the turn button....I am certainly confused.  I have steered away from games like War in the Pacific because of their tendency to be simple rehashes of old battles, while I prefer to control the entire war instead.

Warspite1

If you are desperate to attack the US then ADG have the game for you - America in Flames. I have never played this but I believe it assumes the Axis have won WWII and the battleground moves to North America. This add on is not part of MWIF - version 1 - so you will have to wait for a computer version.

Looking at your other points:

- WIF is a turn based game. Its just that no player knows in advance how many impulses or "goes" they will get within a turn. Turn length depends on a number of factors.

- If you want a game that gives the feel of WWII - that allows an historical setting and historical framework within which to play - but are then free to choose (within that framework) a million different strategies, then WIF is for you. Yes, you control all the armed forces and production of your country or side.

- This is not War In The Pacific - but this is not a "beer and pretzels" game either. ADG have found the perfect balance between playability, realism and plain old fashioned good fun, all wrapped up in a game that looks the part.

Hope that helps!

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RE: What Do You Think Needs to be in World In Flames PC... - 6/8/2010 8:02:39 AM   
Froonp


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
Are you familiar with World in Flames? Each turn is composed of multiple impulses (from 3 to 15+, with an average ~6). So, measured in impulses, we are talking 108 times that players move their units (54 per side). Patrice has better statistics than this - I am just working from my fragile memory cells.

My observation from my games is that each side plays about 21 impulse per year, for an average of about 125 impulses per side for the whole game (6 years, 36 game turns).
There is an average of 3.5 impulses per side per 2-months game turn.
Summer turns are longer with an average of 4-5 impulses per side per turn, and Winter shorter with an average of 2-3 impulses per side per turn, and Spring and Fall an average of 3 impulses per turn.

So you have about 34 production phases where you build you armies, air forces and navies, and 125 impulses where you actualy move your units. It's kind of like having 125 game turns, with a production phase each 3-4 turn.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 654
RE: What Do You Think Needs to be in World In Flames PC... - 6/8/2010 8:28:30 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Simulation01

I'm not sure what to think now.  I'm certainly disappointed with respect to invading the USA, however these impulses are not something I've heard of.  I was expecting WIF to be like Axis and Allies on steroids....

I am used to turn based games like Civilization IV and Galactic Civilizations II.  These "impulses" sound like turns within turns or "waves" of changes before actually hitting the turn button....I am certainly confused.  I have steered away from games like War in the Pacific because of their tendency to be simple rehashes of old battles, while I prefer to control the entire war instead.


Maybe this will provide an overview of World in Flames. I wrote this to myself as the beginning of the specifications for the AI Opponent. I wanted to put down in writing the fundamental components of the game.
===
Background
1.1 MWIF Objectives
World in Flames is a game of conquest where the winner is determined based on victory hexes held at the end of the game. Indeed, the game ends early if one side controls a sufficient number of victory hexes. Since control of a hex is only achieved by having land units either traverse the hex or occupy the country’s capital, land units determine who wins.

1.2 Land Units
There are dozens of types of land units and they can be corps or division size. In order for land units to attack outside of their home country, they need to be able to trace a supply line back to a supply source, either in their home country or an occupied country. To do that, they need to be near a headquarters unit which can trace supply back to a primary or secondary supply source using rail lines. Because the only way to take enemy held victory cities and enemy capitals is by attacking in foreign lands, these lines of communication are crucial for making progress.

1.3 Naval Units
If the enemy is overseas, then supply/communication lines need to extend overseas. This is done by having convoys in contiguous sea areas stretching from the overseas location to the home supply source. To keep overseas units in supply, there must be at least one convoy per sea area, thereby forming a convoy pipeline. The convoys are extremely vulnerable to attack, so naval units are used to defend friendly and attack enemy convoy pipelines. If all supply lines could be land based, then the naval units would have very little value. This is why historically Germany and the USSR fought such a prolonged and bloody conflict with virtually no naval units involved.

1.4 Air Units
Air units enable a player to provide additional striking power at the point of attack. This can be done when attacking or defending, on land and at sea. Air units also have a limited ability to transport land units and supply. One unique role they perform is to attack enemy production through strategic bombing. In general though, air units are augmentations to land and naval forces, which respectively perform the primary tasks of taking territory and providing supply.

1.5 Transportation Lines
In addition to the rail lines and convoy pipelines providing supply, these same 2 transportation lines are used to transport resources to factories and reinforcements to the frontlines. The mechanism is so similar to those for maintaining supply, that for most purposes they can be thought of as the same. What has to be kept in mind is that the importance of the rail lines and convoy pipelines is multiple: (1) to provide supply, (2) to send reinforcements to the frontlines, and (3) to send resources to factories.

1.6 Production
Once resources have been delivered to a factory, production points are produced. Depending on the intensity of the war effort, production points are converted into a number of build points. Build points are used to create new land, naval, and air units. They can also be used for repairing naval units, generating supply depots, and creating new factories. Being unable to generate a substantial number of build points each turn means that a country is unable to replace losses to its army, navy, air force, and merchant marine, and eventually it is doomed to defeat.


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Perfection is an elusive goal.

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Post #: 655
RE: What Do You Think Needs to be in World In Flames PC... - 6/8/2010 9:02:26 AM   
Joseignacio


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From: Madrid, Spain
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Humm...

Steve, ¿wan't it in the rules that you cannot end a turn until the second impulse of both players is over? We are playing with this "rule", I made a fast checkout of the RAW and I didn't see it but I wouldn't be surprised that it is, because this matter is explained in different parts of the RAW.

Anyway... ¿where did you leanrn maths? . An average of 6 muliplied by 36 turns is not 108 action fases, but 216!!! meaning 108 per side.

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Post #: 656
RE: What Do You Think Needs to be in World In Flames PC... - 6/8/2010 1:47:36 PM   
Zorachus99


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Three impulse turns happen.

The number of impulses can be readily reduced during 39-42 if the allies 'minipass' regularly after impulse number 6 or so... (basically when the chance of turn ending is 10% or greater).

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RE: What Do You Think Needs to be in World In Flames PC... - 6/8/2010 2:43:49 PM   
abj9562


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Simulation01

I'm not sure what to think now.  I'm certainly disappointed with respect to invading the USA, however these impulses are not something I've heard of.  I was expecting WIF to be like Axis and Allies on steroids....

I am used to turn based games like Civilization IV and Galactic Civilizations II.  These "impulses" sound like turns within turns or "waves" of changes before actually hitting the turn button....I am certainly confused.  I have steered away from games like War in the Pacific because of their tendency to be simple rehashes of old battles, while I prefer to control the entire war instead.


In my humble opinion (IMHO) comparing WiF to Axis and Allies on steroids is not even close. Although I may have used that expression myself from time to time to explain to new players that it is a very complex game although a heck of a lot more entertaining. I would rather compare it to chess. Chess has 32 pieces and 64 squares, a limited rule set for movement and combat. WiF on the other hand, from the ADG Annual 2008...

"is the most complicated war game there is. The MWIF map is 360 by 195 (70,200 hexes) with 8 major powers, 252 named geographic / political land areas, 83 sea areas, 12 types of terrain, and 6 weather zones. There are over 6,000 individual units, 68 unit types, plus many other odd pieces of unit data: divisions, elite, flying boats, night fighters, and so on. The sequence of play has over 50 ‘phases’ and there are 5 major subphases (air missions, land combat, naval combat, declaration of war, and declaring Vichy France)."


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RE: What Do You Think Needs to be in World In Flames PC... - 6/8/2010 5:05:16 PM   
Skanvak

 

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A possibility to continue the game after the official end is interesting and should be added. The bottomline is that the game don't go far without extension (Patif).

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RE: What Do You Think Needs to be in World In Flames PC... - 6/8/2010 6:27:17 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joseignacio

Humm...

Steve, ¿wan't it in the rules that you cannot end a turn until the second impulse of both players is over? We are playing with this "rule", I made a fast checkout of the RAW and I didn't see it but I wouldn't be surprised that it is, because this matter is explained in different parts of the RAW.

Anyway... ¿where did you leanrn maths? . An average of 6 muliplied by 36 turns is not 108 action fases, but 216!!! meaning 108 per side.

As my mother use to say: "... getting old and decrepit (sp)"

===
EDIT: Making the number of impulses always come out even eliminates one of the key features of WIF, the opportunity to gain an extra impulse in a turn over your opponent. The rules are quite explicit that this can happen: the initiative marker moves towards the side that had fewer impulses when one side has both the first and last impulse in a turn.

< Message edited by Shannon V. OKeets -- 6/8/2010 6:29:35 PM >


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