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RE: Which wargame has done it best?

 
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RE: Which wargame has done it best? - 6/26/2019 7:40:38 PM   
asl3d


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quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm

quote:

ORIGINAL: asl3d
The games similar to ASL for PC that I know are:

1.- Heroes of Stalingrad (I myself have a mod published on this game: Heroes and Leaders mod)

2.- Tigers on the Hunt

You're right that these are closest, but they are not very close...I tried both and dropped them quickly.

I loved SL and ASL back in the day...the original Combat Mission games were a pretty good computer replacement for me, but in my view the current versions are not especially fun... Also looking forward to Steel Tigers. I hope to never play a boardgame again, they take up too much space.


I know Steel Panthers. I started playing with him some time ago but I soon left him. I don't remember its characteristics well, but it reminded me a lot of the Panzer Blitz and Panzer Leader series. Repeating my comment above:

"Panzer Blitz and Panzer Leader have game mechanisms that remind me of what later developed into infinity in SL/ASL (LOS, MP vs MF ...) Even the scale at companies level and vehicles can also be considered as the battles core of The WW2.The problem is that the concept of combat with combined weapons was not well simulated. On one side were the vehicles, which made war on their own, and on the other side were the rest of the mortals."

I think something similar happened to Steel Panthers.

I copy below two screenshots of the graphic environment of Steel Panthers and Heroes of Stalingrad.

Do you have any doubts about the graphic quality between both games and about the scale of the game?





Attachment (1)

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RE: Which wargame has done it best? - 6/26/2019 7:55:01 PM   
RangerJoe


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Put up a road block or minefield guarded by an unseen engineer squad with flamethrowers and satchel charges and see just how well any tank fares.

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RE: Which wargame has done it best? - 6/26/2019 7:59:09 PM   
Zovs


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You are not correct.

Steel Panthers is Squad and individual Tanks and ATG/ART game. PanzerBlitz/PanzerLeader were platoon level games, where each counter represented a platoon or company. There is no similarity between Steel Panthers and PanzerLeader/Blitz.

Here are some better screen shots of Steel Panthers WW2 (it has been updated over the last 20 years.)













Steel Panthers more resembles Squad Leader/ASL then it does PanzerBitz/PanzerLeader, that game is more reflected in John Tillers Campaign series which is a platoon level game.

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RE: Which wargame has done it best? - 6/26/2019 10:44:28 PM   
sPzAbt653


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And Squads and Platoons are Tactical and therefore don't qualify for The Best in this thread. There should probably be three threads, one each for Best Tactical, Best Operational and Best Strategic.

Of course my opinion is that none of them are the best, there are just a lot of Mr. He'll-do's !

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RE: Which wargame has done it best? - 6/27/2019 12:00:07 AM   
MrsWargamer

 

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At the risk of confusion.

In the beginning there was Steel Panthers... no other names or numbers or letter combos.
It was good, but, it was a computer game, and I had been spending 100s of dollars on Squad Leader/ASL for 20 years. I wasn't that hurried to change.

Then Matrix Games took the Steel Panthers III Brigade Combat code, and invented Steel Panthers World at War, and I was getting more interested. They released the Mega Campaigns and I was hooked. But SP III is built on platoon level simulation. The code, for whatever it is, was made for platoon level, ie Panzer Leader. It's a software thing, and outside my experience range.

SP Camo decided they wanted to go a different path. Their design is based on Steel Panthers II Modern Combat. A squad level concept, but allowing for modern military equipment. Again, that's a code thing. Not sure where an MBT and a Helicopter differ. They have been agressive with updates. Their releases play nice with modern OSs.

I routinely play with Steel Panthers III Brigade Combat. It is indeed platoon level. Not one tank, but a group of them. It's Steel Panthers as much as the very first game. It also requires you to understand how to make old software work on new machines. I'm lucky, I found a means to that end. I routinely fire it up. Runs on 10.

I have played The Guards Counter Attack via Steel Panthers. Really nostalgic, but, it's of course still really Steel Panthers. Sure looks like SL/ASL though, accept the software is really not ASL.

I like playing Campaign Series. Looks very much like Panzer Leader. Looks like it was made to look like Panzer Leader. Although, if you have actually played Panzer Leader, well only it actually is Panzer Leader in the same way only Squad Leader is actually Squad Leader.

Tigers on the Hunt has tried very impressively to look exactly like ASL. It can't of course, because the gorrilla in the corner named Hasborg would tear them a new one if they tried. They own ASL. MMP is merely selling it for them. MMP does not own ASL.

I've seen a lot of games 'look' like ASL and some have even claimed to be the spirtitual successor to ASL. Combat Mission tried that. It's a 3d game, ASL is a 2d board game. They have nothing in common other than WW2. Close Combat isn't ASL. It's a real time design, oh and it is squad level. So what. Steel Panthers was not trying to be ASL. They have never claimed it to my knowledge. They just look like twins. Hey, I have someone walking around town that looks just like me eh. Not related though :)

You guys need to stop arguing over silly details though.
I said which game has done it best, singular, and mentioned it might not be possible at either of the 3 established common scales of simulation that being tactical operational or grand strategy, with a nod in favour of operational. Never meant to say tactical or grand strategy was not permitted a vote though :)

And chess while a simple game to explain, well, try beating someone 10 games in a row before calling it 'easy' :)

I consider Battle Academy a simple game to explain too. And try beating me 10 games in a row before dismissing it as 'easy'.
The cool thing about BA, is I can play you all 10 of those games in an afternoon.
I might not live long enough to play War in the East 10 times. That's going to be several YEARS.

I've helped beta test tactical wargames. It's fun. I can run a scenario through a dozen times in a single sitting and then tell the guy in charge "this particular aspect of the scenario needs adjustment." I have never attempted to beta test anything on the magnitude of WitE. I just can't provide that magnitude of lifespan. I worry that games like that can even be realistically tested in under a year. And I have heard of some veeeery peculiar strategies in that game. Gamey abuses of supplies.

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RE: Which wargame has done it best? - 6/27/2019 2:28:31 AM   
Zovs


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It’s still TOAW, it’s still best, it always has been, Norm was a genius.

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RE: Which wargame has done it best? - 6/27/2019 2:50:50 AM   
Twotribes


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And I point out once again that depending on how you set up with the editors in Advanced Tactics Gold you can have tactical, operational or strategic and can be any time frame any Genre.

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RE: Which wargame has done it best? - 6/27/2019 4:00:30 AM   
MrsWargamer

 

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I think TOAW and Advanced Tactics Gold are awesome and completeness.

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