Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

Mud and terrain affects on CV

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> Mud and terrain affects on CV Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Mud and terrain affects on CV - 6/11/2019 8:48:10 AM   
Chris21wen

 

Posts: 5550
Joined: 1/17/2002
From: Bexhill-on-Sea, E Sussex
Status: offline
I really should know this but can't find it in the manual nor the forum but I need to confirm it.

It's the terrain/weather in the terrain you are attacking into that affects the attacking units CV! For instance, if a unit is in a mud hex and attacks out into clear then mud has no effect on the combat. The reverse is obviously true.

This is one reason why the attacking CV on the counters can bear no resembance to the actual initial CV as calculated when the combat is initiated.
Post #: 1
RE: Mud and terrain affects on CV - 6/11/2019 9:04:11 AM   
Telemecus


Posts: 2735
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline
Its probably a good reminder that even better maths CV is not the final word either. Hex side features like rivers are not included and then yes of course as you point out if the hex being attacked has different terrain/weather from where it is being attacked from then attacker CV is even less useful.

< Message edited by Telemecus -- 6/11/2019 9:23:24 AM >

(in reply to Chris21wen)
Post #: 2
RE: Mud and terrain affects on CV - 6/11/2019 9:28:41 AM   
Chris21wen

 

Posts: 5550
Joined: 1/17/2002
From: Bexhill-on-Sea, E Sussex
Status: offline
I've just carried out a little test after finding a save where one area had clear and the next mud.

What I said is correct for terrain/forts etc which is how I thought it worked, but not for mud (and assume other weather conditions). Seems it's the weather in the units own hex that affacts it's CV and not the hex its attacking into.

I tried one attack from mud with penalty, reloaded, moved it to a clear hex no penalty.

< Message edited by Chris21wen -- 6/11/2019 12:40:46 PM >

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 3
RE: Mud and terrain affects on CV - 6/11/2019 11:34:40 AM   
xhoel


Posts: 843
Joined: 6/24/2017
From: Germany
Status: offline
For attacking, the terrain where your attacking units are located determines the weather modifier. If your units are in mud and are attacking a unit in the clear they will suffer the mud penalty. For terrain, it is the weather in the hex that is being attacked.

It is the same in WitW.

Cheers!

_____________________________

AAR WITW: Gotterdammerung 43-45
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4490035
AAR WITE: A Clash of Titans 41-45
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4488465

(in reply to Chris21wen)
Post #: 4
RE: Mud and terrain affects on CV - 6/11/2019 4:27:51 PM   
Crackaces


Posts: 3716
Joined: 7/9/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

Its probably a good reminder that even better maths CV is not the final word either. Hex side features like rivers are not included and then yes of course as you point out if the hex being attacked has different terrain/weather from where it is being attacked from then attacker CV is even less useful.


Two things Tele on rivers .. one is the terrain bonus to defensive CV.. the other is the disruption rules depending on minor vs major river. The end effects can affect CV dramatically .. (Defense getting a boost and all the automatic disruptions before the first shot is fired ).

_____________________________

"What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know. It's what we know for sure that just ain't so"

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 5
RE: Mud and terrain affects on CV - 6/11/2019 4:39:44 PM   
EwaldvonKleist


Posts: 1603
Joined: 4/14/2016
From: Berlin, Germany
Status: offline
Non-exhaustive list of some hard (non RNG-modifiers)

Terrain: Taken from attacked hexagon.
Weather: Taken from the hexagon you attack from.

Multiplier (already shown in initial CV):
*2 for infantry type elements in dense terrain (heavy woods, rough, swamp, city)
*4 for infantry type elements in very dense terrain (mountain, urban, heavy urban)
/2 for AFV type elements in dense terrain
/4 for AFV type elements in very dense terrain

*2 for all elements in a mountain/jaeger unit if fighting in mountain hexagon, already shown on map and in initial CV

Rivers (effect already shown in initial CV):
roughly /2 for minor rivers for infantry type elemeents due to automatic pre-combat disruption, more severe for AFV type elements
roughly /3 for major rivers for infantry type elements due to automatic pre-combat disruption, more severe for AFV type elements

Lack of vehices reduces offensive CV for all unit types

If the unit is unready, offensive CV are halved (already shown on the counter)

then there are special blizzard rules.


< Message edited by EwaldvonKleist -- 6/11/2019 6:11:19 PM >


_____________________________


(in reply to Crackaces)
Post #: 6
RE: Mud and terrain affects on CV - 6/11/2019 4:47:22 PM   
Colbert

 

Posts: 34
Joined: 5/4/2017
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist
Rivers (effect already shown in initial CV):


How can rivers be included in the CV on the counter? You do not know if the attack will be across a river or not?


< Message edited by Colbert -- 6/11/2019 4:48:06 PM >

(in reply to EwaldvonKleist)
Post #: 7
RE: Mud and terrain affects on CV - 6/11/2019 5:14:30 PM   
morvael


Posts: 11272
Joined: 9/8/2006
From: Poland
Status: offline
They can't. They are applied as disruption at start of combat only to those units that attack across rivers. But on battle report they are included from the start.

< Message edited by morvael -- 6/11/2019 5:18:21 PM >

(in reply to Colbert)
Post #: 8
RE: Mud and terrain affects on CV - 6/11/2019 6:09:49 PM   
EwaldvonKleist


Posts: 1603
Joined: 4/14/2016
From: Berlin, Germany
Status: offline
Initial CV=CV shown in battle report on the left side of the arrow

Initial CV=\=on counter CV! i mean two different things with this.

< Message edited by EwaldvonKleist -- 6/11/2019 6:10:19 PM >


_____________________________


(in reply to morvael)
Post #: 9
RE: Mud and terrain affects on CV - 6/12/2019 7:30:26 AM   
Chris21wen

 

Posts: 5550
Joined: 1/17/2002
From: Bexhill-on-Sea, E Sussex
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Colbert

quote:

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist
Rivers (effect already shown in initial CV):


How can rivers be included in the CV on the counter? You do not know if the attack will be across a river or not?



The counter CV is only an indication as to how a unit will do in combat and is not used as shown. Instead, when any battle is initiated, it is re-calculated and an initial CV worked out to include all multipliers as mentioned here.

While updating the unofficial manual's index I found this process to be unclear which is why I asked the original question. I will be changing the manual so it is clearer.

(in reply to Colbert)
Post #: 10
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> Mud and terrain affects on CV Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.125