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Ship Roles by Class - 5/15/2019 4:46:16 PM   
Lowpe


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A partial looks at warship roles...picking the best class and not just what is at hand.

Ship Roles:

BB, BC, CA & CL:

CV Escort: Not just the highest AA, but actually effective AA guns. Cannot be slower than the carriers. AS Radar a must. Fast BB are great here as they also draw dive bomber attacks protecting CVs even more (depends on how well your opposition uses DL).

Heavy SAG: For punishingh slugfests, lots of non rear firing guns. Ship repairs hopefully not too far away.

Light SAG: Low threat for plentiful skirmishing, lots of non rear firing guns torps great. Fast.


Raider: The ideal raider has plentiful endurance, a mix between good guns and AA, some ASW ability, radars, some air search is nice. A good example is the Brooklyn & Helena Class CL (no ASW but so much fuel to support a long legged destroyer) . For Japan think Maya.

If all else fails look here:

Fast Bombardment: If the ship doesn't go to the above uses, but has a speed of 8/9. Some invasions.

Slow bombardment: Pigs, need plentiful ASW & Air protection. Usually used only in controlled waters. Invasions.

CAP Trap Magnet: AA and maneuver.

Fast Minelaying: Has to have mines.

Fast Transport: IJN only.


DD:

SAG: Plentiful non rear facing guns, torpedoes, armor a plus
CV Escort: Good AA and ASW and Radar
ASW: Radar & plentiful ASW wpns
Bombardment:
Fast Transport & APD: Clemson and Wickes & all IJN.
Screen: To provide proper screening of SAGs or finding minefields. Low VP. Use Aggressive captains...they won't last long but better them than a CA or fast BB.


There aren't that many great SAG DD: Fletcher, Porter, Mahan, Sumner, J Class, N Class, Aussie, French, perhaps Isaac Sewers? Those come to my mind very quickly for Allies.

In the early game, If you are planning on using American CVs, I would highly recommend sending over some British warships with air search radar via Australia. Also check your ASW escorts for night time experience!

Hard to over state the importance of adequate screens protecting larger ships versus torpedo strikes.





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RE: Ship Roles by Class - 5/15/2019 7:00:40 PM   
AleRonin


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Very interesting post, thanks!

Few questions:
You said non rear guns, because the crossing the T tactic is hard to execute and the guns rarely fire?

DD in Bombardment no description, that means you don't use DD in this role?

In another post you said several small TFs because they are more efficient in a battle, but is it only for screen TFs (DDs) or for Heavy TFs (CA-BB-CLs) as well?
Basically you create a Heavy TF with 2-3 BBs or CAs (same class preferably) and DDs in support + several DDs only as screen TFs or what?


< Message edited by AleRonin -- 5/15/2019 7:01:24 PM >

(in reply to Lowpe)
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RE: Ship Roles by Class - 5/15/2019 7:43:26 PM   
Lowpe


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This post was an attempt to get players to look at the TOE of ships and think about how to best use them to the best of their ability.

The pace of PBEM games is usually super fast, and players grab whatever is at hand. However, there are clearly destroyers designed to protect CVs and not designed to screen a surface group and engage in surface combat. But the game is more nuanced than that....if you search the forums you will find a lot of discussion on this in AARs and in war room for Japan, but not so much for the Allies. Japan has to be frugal and efficient, the Allies not so much as they are swamped with numbers.

In larger warships, often the captain never fires the rear turrets...

Multiple small task forces is a tactic...you could use four four destroyer SAGs or you could use two DD Sags, followed by a CA SAG followed by a bombardment task force. I have also used multiple small task forces defensively as well...but it is a tactic, and here I want you to take a look at the equipment (and ultimately upgrade paths) ship classes have.

Once I get some time next week, I will put up a post on why I like certain Allied destroyers for different roles by comparing them...

(in reply to AleRonin)
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RE: Ship Roles by Class - 5/15/2019 8:25:48 PM   
AleRonin


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Thanks for your support Lowpe!

Really tons of infos are necessary to be acquired in this game and every help is much appreciated

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RE: Ship Roles by Class - 5/16/2019 9:17:31 AM   
jdsrae


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From: The Land Downunder
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My tip is don’t make hasty decisions on ship conversions. Check the database and review your options based on the data.
Just one example in Japanese DDs, in last games I’ve converted those that can to APD without much thought but when I reviewed the data recently I noticed that even the old DD can upgrade if left as DD to receive improved depth charges and radars. They typically don’t get the technology upgrade benefits if converted to APD. Well worth reviewing each ship type and classes against each other to inform your decisions.
Haven’t played allies for a year or more, but I did compare the DD classes with CV escorts getting first priority, plus I usually replaced my CV escorts with the new arriving DDs and relegated the older DD to lower priority roles. Look forward to seeing your thoughts Lowpe.

Hazy memory, I think the ANZ cruisers have air search radar at game start so would be good to meet up with USN CV, will check this later...

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RE: Ship Roles by Class - 5/16/2019 10:29:40 AM   
jdsrae


Posts: 213
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From: The Land Downunder
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Apologies if this is off on a tangent, but Lowpe's post made me look back through my old notes on allied ships.
I prepared org charts like this in powerpoint a few years ago for all allied forces in a scenario 1 game vs AI. This is an example showing USN Battle Force on 7 Dec 41. I'm not sure if this aligns with the best way to organise DDs in game but it seemed like a good way to do it to me, plus from my google research it looks like how the USN organised their Destroyer force at the time.
The org charts are based on some interweb research I did and I have tried to stay closely aligned with the "admin" organisation of the USN. In reality, ships didn't sail in task forces based on their admin organisation but I try to form task forces based on this. I got to late 1944 in that game before getting sidetracked into preparing similar charts for Japan. I've pretty much finished this "project", and have 100s of pages of these now for both sides which I use to organise myself and stay organised. I'd be happy to share, I just don't know what the best way to share them would be. If anyone is interested let me know the best way to share them.
Cheers, Jim

EDIT: I'll move the image to a new thread

< Message edited by jdsrae -- 5/17/2019 5:37:54 AM >


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RE: Ship Roles by Class - 5/16/2019 11:27:33 AM   
Lowpe


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Ok,I am away for a couple of days, but if anyone can add more roles for these warships I would appreciate it.

The only other one that springs to mind is convoy escort. In certain cases this makes sense,for example an IJN training light cruiser with Tonan Whalers...or to get a high skill military task force commander, or simply use a higher skill military captain as task force commander.

The other thing I want to check is I think that rear facing turrets on destroyers usually do end up shooting in surface combat -- to a much higher degree than larger warships like battleships.


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RE: Ship Roles by Class - 5/16/2019 11:39:34 AM   
traskott


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From: Valladolid, Spain
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Yes, I would like to see that project. Can u send that to me to my email? It's in my profile.

Thanks.

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RE: Ship Roles by Class - 5/16/2019 2:23:05 PM   
AleRonin


Posts: 122
Joined: 4/30/2019
Status: online
Jdsrae amazing slide, thanks!
I would be happy to read it as weel

I think your file(s) will be too heavy for the forum, therefore you can use a shared folder (like Dropbox).

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RE: Ship Roles by Class - 5/16/2019 8:29:32 PM   
rustysi


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Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline
quote:

DD:


quote:

CV Escort: Good AA and ASW and Radar


Don't forget range. You don't want CV's slowing down to refuel their DD's too often.

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RE: Ship Roles by Class - 5/16/2019 8:36:38 PM   
Anachro


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From: The Coastal Elite
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

Don't forget range. You don't want CV's slowing down to refuel their DD's too often.


And potentially lowering OP points for the turn if they're in the process of flank speed runs or reacting to a spotted target, or if you anticipate action.

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RE: Ship Roles by Class - 5/18/2019 10:05:04 AM   
jdsrae


Posts: 213
Joined: 3/1/2010
From: The Land Downunder
Status: online
On convoy escorts. There never seem to be enough ASW capable ships to go around for the allies, especially early on, which drives the need for convoys.
I look at everything that has 1+ ASW capability for convoys.
I use the most capable DD as CV, BB, CA, CL escorts in that priority order. If (big if) there are any spare I may use a few old DD to escort an important troop convoy like an Infantry Division but I’d probably also send a CA or CL with it in case they meet an AMC or other surface raider.
That leaves smaller less capable ships like AM, PG, PC initially for convoy duty. Some AM have decent range and durability so can handle ocean trips, but others look designed for coastal duty.

Durability is a key stat for small ships used in escort roles. Ships with Durability 1 don’t like deep water but in an emergency you can use he short legged AM or boats like YP to escort merchants on short trips.

Later when the DEs start arriving I look at them for CVE escort duty, but ive also used the older DDs for that once the Fletchers start arriving in numbers.
Saying that out loud I realise that might be a waste of those “older” DDs who would probably be better kept in a front line role, like the DD only screening TFs you mention.


< Message edited by jdsrae -- 5/18/2019 10:13:23 AM >


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