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SPI War in Europe - 5/10/2019 4:23:31 PM   
Zovs


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Well I am finally caught up on my update of my old TOAW III scenario.

What that means is that I now have the Allies: US and CW expanded out to 1945.

Left to work on is the Allies: Soviet expansion from 1/43 to 6/45 and the German expansion from 1/43 to 6/45 (completed the SS units I am going to use).

I still need to tweak the first turn movement, zoc, and shock effects for play balance. I may need to do some more event fiddling. And I most likely will need a couple of play testers on it.

It's a fun scenario, there are some shortcomings of the TOAW IV (and before) engine, such as you can only have 2 exclusion zones and I think I need like 4 of them. So I had to do what I did with what the engine gives.

There is some abstractions in the sense that the original board game had no concept of Corps and Army's and all the divisions were basically cookie cutter. So I made some design decisions and also added some chrome/spice to it.

I'll post more when I can and update this thread with the scenario.

Don

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RE: SPI War in Europe - 5/10/2019 5:12:28 PM   
Lobster


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How will you handle production? I have the original in my closet.

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RE: SPI War in Europe - 5/10/2019 5:14:18 PM   
Zovs


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I did it manually for you lol.

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RE: SPI War in Europe - 5/14/2019 10:49:14 PM   
mussey


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Zovs, I wish you well on this. I played Third Reich endlessly, wearing out the board and counters. When SPI came out with this I had no room for the maps but yearned for the opportunity to play this.

In regard to production, maybe you can create some Events to give player choices (not that I have a clue how to do it). For example: 'Germany puts more production in U-Boats' (resulting in more naval, less land, etc). 'France does not create Maginot Line' (creating more armored divisions).

As for the Battle of the Atlantic, Bob Cross created a pretty good Event sequence (The Next War 1979) that may help you. But if you come up with something different I would be very interested in seeing it...

In any event, keep on it!

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RE: SPI War in Europe - 5/15/2019 9:33:57 AM   
Zovs


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Thanks Mussey.

These are my working Design Notes (not scenario notes) which will be found (and updated as I go along) when the scenario is ready for general consumption:

DESIGNER'S NOTES
Originally (i.e. back in 1976) Simultaneous Publications Incorporated (SPI) and ultimately Decisions Games (DG) in 1999 created the board war game (and also two Computer War in Europe-CWIE-games) as a Strategic and Operational level game. With board war games (and the two computer counter parts) one can add in abstract elements such as production, strategic level naval and air warfare and political rules with as much or as little complexity as needed.

TOAW (at least to me) is an Operational Level (with some Strategic Level elements) game and has limitations in the strategic area as I just mentioned, namely: production, strategic level naval and air warfare and political rules.

With these limits imposed on me by the TOAW engine and likewise the limits imposed on me by the board war games themselves in regards to the 'cookie cutter' nature of the unit counters (i.e. in the board games the Germans have only 252 infantry divisions and they are all rated at 6-5 for their combat/movement strengths) I had to make some design decisions (both back in 2002 and in 2019) while creating and expanding on my scenario.

MAP
The map is mostly a pretty close replica of primarly SPI's WIE and filling in the errata gaps DG WIE. I was asked why the map was canted 60 degrees and that is because the SPI/DG WIE map is/was created that way. One of the deviations on this map for TOAW should be quite obvious to most board war gamers and that is the rivers. TOAW does not do hex side rivers and I am guessing that 90% of all 1958-2019 board war games use hex side rivers. So I had to make some design decsions on how to do the rivers and lakes as best I could. But for the most part it's the good old 1976 map with some refinements and the only added features are the North Sea/Norwegian Sea Route (for possible lend lease? found on the upper top of the map) and the Cape of Good Hope ('Rounding the Horne' to and from Suez found on the far left and bottom of the map).

OOB's
In order to keep the 'feeling' of SPI's WIE for the OOB's I primarily used SPI's WIE game itself (along with DG WIE and CWIE2). SPI's WIE was originally created in 1976 and expanded over the next two and half or so decades and further updated and expanded by DG in 1999. In both of those game all the divisions (and brigades) are basically 'cookie - cutter' divisions. Meaning for example that all German Infantry divisions were 6-5, all security were 6-3, all static divisions 0-5-1 and all panzer divisions were 10-8; likewise all Russian infantry divisions were either 1-4, 4-4 or 5-5; or all US and CW infantry divisions were rated at 8-10. If you have played board war games before you'll know that this means the first number is the attack/defend combat values and the last number the movement point values.

So what I first did was to count up the number of possible divisions (motorized/panzer/ss/etc.) that the Germans (or the CW, France, USA, Russia, Italy, Finland, Hungary, Romania, and all the Minor Neutrals) that are present and at start for the 1939 WIE grand Campaign game. That gave me the total number of divisions/brigades to work with at start.

So after the counting of all the 'counters' it was just a matter of creating formations to store them in, so I just built formations (historical ones as best I could determine) and assigned divisions to them. It was not a perfect science but it seems to work and is also playable (I built the first versions of this in TOAW III). I took the best guesses I could for Air formations and squadrons. Note that I will most like get flak (pun intended) by choosing this route. For examples (at the time of this writing) I have 31 Germany Infantry Armies (1. Armee, 2. Armee, 31. Armee etc.), 4 Tank Armies (1. Pz.Armee, 2. Pz.Armee, etc.) and 4 Panzergrenadier armies (1. Pz-Gr.Armee, 2. Pz-Gr.Armee, etc.). Most war gamer's will automatically note the un-historical aspect of having 31 Infantry Armies with 9 divisions each in them (and each division is just numbered sequential) but it's how SPI/DG WIE was created (actually they have no concept of Armies or Corps, and you have 300+ divisions to move about without regards to Command and Control) and how I decided to make this scenario and it works (playable) with the way I setup the formation/unit proficiency/supply etc. Its not perfect, but it works and it seems to give a fairly good immersion level and definitely feels like playing SPI/DG WIE but with TOAW.

TO&E's
For the individual TO&E's I used a vast amount of resources (see end of file).

I also took the liberty to add some chrome and make some 'adjustments' to the both the production cycle as well as the OOB's.

For example most all the units are 'cookie-cutter', but there is some deviation, in that I used Doctor Niehorster work to create the German Waves (1-14) for all the German Infantry units, but took the liberty to adjust. For example the 1st wave had 35 divisions with that TO&E. But the way I created this scenario is that each German HQ has 9 German Infantry Divisions in it. So the first 4 armies have 9 divisions so I just made the first wave to be 36 divisions instead of 35. The 2nd Wave had 16 divisions and so I created 18 of those in two formations. The US was different I created each US Army to have roughly 12 divisions in it (6-9 Infantry and 3 Armor). The CW was also a bit different and the Russians even more so. For example the 1st Soviet Army has 1 HQ and 31 Rifle Divisions, the 1st Mech Army has 1 HQ, 4 Mech Brigades and 12 Tank Brigades and the 1st Soviet Guards Army has 1 HQ, 12 Rifle Divisions, 9 Cavalry Divisions, 4 Mech and 4 Tank Brigades. Not exactly historic but it works and gives a good immersion feel and portrays the board game quite well.

PRODUCTION
I am going to keep production pretty simple. Essentially I did all the production for both players. What that means is that I have both the SPI and DG board games (as well as both computer games) and there is a way to map out only having the 'historical' reinforcements from 1939-45 and that is essentially what I did. To put that into perspective, I followed the historical reinforcements that the scenarios used, i.e. the WitW 1939, 1940, 1942, 1943 and 1944 scenarios as well as the WitE 1941, 1942, 1943 and 1944 scenarios used.

AIR
I simplified air in the game in that each F, FB, or SB has between 100-200 aircraft. In my play tests this seems to work well with the scale of the scenario and the operational 'feel' thus far and I am happy with it. There seems to be plenty of air units around and if I had to create every squadron from 1939-1945 I think this scenario would never see the light of day or I'd go insane which ever occurred first. In SPI/DG WIE, air is abstracted as 1 AP and the Germans get IIRC 20 AP at start. I believe in 2002 I used a several calculations to derive an approximation of the 100-200 aircraft.

NAVAL
At this point I have not added any naval units yet. My view is that Naval is mostly a strategic weapon and SPI WIE/DG WIE portrays it in that way I will only use a limited amount of naval units or perhaps do something like what Bob Cross has done with CFNA.

PRIMARY REFERENCES
BOARD WAR GAMES:
"War In Europe" (wargame), James F. Dunnigan, Ira B. Hardy, Redmond A. Simonsen, Tom Walczyk, Edward Curran, and Steve Bettum. Simulations Publications, Inc., 1976.
"War in Europe" (wargame), Don Johnson, Decision Games, Inc., 1999, 2002
"The Europa Series":
Fire in the East (FitE), GDW 1984.
Scorched Earth, (SE) GDW 1987.
Marita-Merkur, (MM) GDW 1979.
Balkan Front, (BF) GRD 1990.
Narvik, (Nar) GDW 1974.
Their Finest Hour (TFH), GDW 1976.
Western Desert, (WD) GDW 1982.
War in the Desert (WitD), GRD 1995.
First to Fight (FtF), GRD 1991.
The Fall of France (FoF), GDW 1981.
The Near East (NE or TNE), GDW 1983.
War in the Desert (WitD), GRD 1995.
Spain and Portugal (SP), GDW 1984.
Torch, GDW 1985.
War in the Desert (WitD), GRD 1995.
Second Front (SF), GRD 1994.
The Urals (TU), GRD 1989.
A Winter War (WW or AWW), GRD 1992.
"Advanced Squad Leader" (Avalon Hill 1985-1999, Multi Man Publications 1999-present).

ONLINE RESOURCES:
Too numerous to list, but here is a partial list:
Nafziger, The US Army Center of Military History, The Combined Arms Research Library, Air Pages (Russian site), Military Literature (Russian Site), The General Staff Archives, Niehorster, Axis History, Lexikon der Wehrmacht, AFV Database, Feldgrau, Handbook on German Military Forces, The Official History of the US Military in World War II, Official Histories of the Second World War: Australia, Canada, Germany, Great Britain, New Zealand, United States and USSR.

COMPUTER GAMES:
Decision Games: Computer War in Europe
Matrix Games: John Tillers Campaign Series
Shrapnel Games: Steel Panthers World War 2
Matrix Games: Steel Panthers: World at War
Matrix Games: TOAW III and IV scenarios and TOE's (various ideas).

< Message edited by Zovs -- 5/15/2019 9:49:17 AM >


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Post #: 5
RE: SPI War in Europe - 5/15/2019 11:36:14 AM   
cathar1244

 

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Thanks Zovs. Gives a good idea of how many design decisions are involved. If you have questions about the historical OOBs, feel free to shoot me questions. Worst case, it will be a "dumb looks are still free" reply ...

Cheers

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RE: SPI War in Europe - 5/16/2019 6:14:47 PM   
Zovs


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So I am still tooling through the German panzer divisions.

Originally I had a good mix of stuff for the TOE's but this spring when I circled back to Niehorster's work (back when I originally created this in 2002, he did not have all his PDF's as downloads and I had to use the web page and most likely made mistakes and or did not understand thing like I do now with a new fresh reading of his PDF's and his very detailed explanations).

I need to fix the German panzers up and was also wanted to do some auto upgrading, but the one drawback in TOAW is that you can only have 24 systems in any unit. So this is a problem I have yet to solve. Right now I have the TOE's built up with the 1939 tank loads and for the replacement I am tailing off production for various systems (based on SPWW2 data, much like ASL's which show the general production time lines of various systems).

So for example all the at start Panzer divisions are loaded up with Pz I's, II's, a few IIIs and IV's, but for 1940 I retooled it to be more of the same with more systems however with only 24 systems available per unit I am running into a wall for 1941 and beyond.

So taking for example the 1.Panzer-Division on 9/39 it had 93 PzI's, but in 1940 there is only 52 PzIs, likewise in 1939 there are 122 PzIIs and in 1940 there is 98 PzIIs. So part of my solution was to set the values like so:

PzI 93/52
PzII 122/98

Essentially over stuffing the unit. So far so good. So here is what the 1.Panzer-Division looks like at start. Those IIF's are for upgrades in 1940 and 1941. The main problem I have is I have no more slots, so I can't add PzIIIE-J or PzIVE,D or H's either, no more slots (only a max of 24). So I could be less clever and remove number 03, but it gives the panzer a little more umphf I could condense all the infantry down into say SMG's squads but loose that feeling of having a mix of rifle, smg and some heavy rifle units, I created some custom units (a new eqp file) and used the weaker Pz.Bef.Wg I (and II's) so I could remove those but reducing it down just makes it a bit more cookie-cutter. I'd had to have to withdraw a entire formation (for the Germans that is 9 divisions) and add back a formation as a reinforcement. That sucks in two ways. One, the player may be using those units at a critical junction and then to have them get removed would kind of suck. Second, I like the idea of having a base unit with 0/XX of items that eventually get filled. In this scenario since it goes from 9/39 to 6/45 the idea is that over time the PzI, II and III's will end production and being available and then the newer equipment will filter and and make the unit new again.


ID="01" PzKpfw IIB NUMBER="122" MAX="98"
ID="02" PzKpfw IVA NUMBER="56" MAX="56"
ID="03" Geschutzwagen I NUMBER="18" MAX="18"
ID="04" PzKpfw I NUMBER="93" MAX="52"
ID="05" Rifle AT Squad NUMBER="72" MAX="108"
ID="06" SMG AT Squad NUMBER="36" MAX="108"
ID="07" Heavy Rifle AT Squad NUMBER="36"
ID="08" PzKpfw IIID NUMBER="26" MAX="26"
ID="09" Hvy Motorcycle Squad NUMBER="71" MAX="20"
ID="10" SdKfz 222 NUMBER="28" MAX="26"
ID="11" Motorcycle Squad NUMBER="69" MAX="82"
ID="12" SdKfz 221 NUMBER="28" MAX="26"
ID="13" Engineer Squad NUMBER="42" MAX="42"
ID="14" SdKfz 231-8 NUMBER="17" MAX="12"
ID="15" SdKfz 231-6 NUMBER="17" MAX="12"
ID="16" Pz.Bef.Wg II NUMBER="6" MAX="6"
ID="17" SdKfz 6/2 SPAAG NUMBER="8" MAX="8"
ID="18" Reconnaissance Rifle Team NUMBER="12" MAX="12"
ID="19" Pz.Bef.Wg I NUMBER="6" MAX="6"
ID="20" 105mm Gun NUMBER="24" MAX="24"
ID="21" Heavy MG NUMBER="72" MAX="72"
ID="22" SdKfz 251/1 NUMBER="54" MAX="54"
ID="23" Medium MG NUMBER="72" MAX="72"
ID="24" PzKpfw IIF NUMBER="0" MAX="68"

Thoughts? Since I only have 24 systems available in each formation, should I quite trying to be cleaver with the Rifle/SMG/Hvy Rifle load outs and 'condense' them into one unit (thus freeing up 2 slots)? Should I get rid of the Geschutzwagen's, they give an extra punch? I liked the chrome of the Pz.Bef.Wg, but that is using up a slot so should those go?

Thanks for some feedback.


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Post #: 7
RE: SPI War in Europe - 5/16/2019 6:27:24 PM   
cathar1244

 

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quote:

Thanks for some feedback.


Zovs, if you want those divisions to be used for the entire war, you'll have to get very generic with equipment -- as in "light tank", "med tank 1939", "med tank 1944", and so on. Not much chrome there. Absolutely, ditch the Panzerbefehlwagons. Condense the motorcycle squads into one type. Condense MGs into one type. Ditto light armored cars and heavy armored cars. You're still going to have issues after lumping things together -- too many equipment items in the Panzer divisions.

Another idea is to break the Panzer divisions into two units -- one infantry heavy and the other armor heavy. That gives more slots, but some equipment will be found in both parts of the division.

Cheers

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RE: SPI War in Europe - 5/16/2019 6:42:48 PM   
Zovs


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Further thoughts.

Am I adding too much chrome here?

In the following screen shots I thought it would be neat to make WIE a little less cookie cutter, but I am a English speaker/writer, and wonder if its too much or adds to the immersion level? For the Germans, CW and USA I used normal case for Armies. Also, for the Russians I am not sure what I may do or not yet. Currently its in the default WIE style so 1st Soviet Army, 63 Sov RD or 3 Sov TD, or 14 Sov Cav and so on for the Russians, I'll need to do something. For the US and CW it's pretty self explanatory. 12 CW Mot ID, 22 CW Mot ID and for the US, 25 US Mot ID, 3 US Armor, etc. I still may tweak the CW, US and Russians when I get there.

German Units: (for the Germans I used mostly lower case, so 9. Armee, 21. Armee etc.)


Polish Units (Army Formation: WOJSKO POLSKIE)


French Units (Army Formation: ARMEE FRANCAIS)


Belgium Units (Army Formation: BELGISCH LEGER):


Netherlands Units (Army Formation: NEDERLANDSE LEGER):


Norwegian Units: (Army Formation: NORSK HAER):


Greece Units (Army Formation: ELLINIKOS STRATOS):


The OOB screen for the Germans:


Too much chrome? Or okay?

Once you get used to it you warm up to it.

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Post #: 9
RE: SPI War in Europe - 5/16/2019 6:44:01 PM   
Zovs


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From: United States
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cathar1244

quote:

Thanks for some feedback.


Zovs, if you want those divisions to be used for the entire war, you'll have to get very generic with equipment -- as in "light tank", "med tank 1939", "med tank 1944", and so on. Not much chrome there. Absolutely, ditch the Panzerbefehlwagons. Condense the motorcycle squads into one type. Condense MGs into one type. Ditto light armored cars and heavy armored cars. You're still going to have issues after lumping things together -- too many equipment items in the Panzer divisions.

Another idea is to break the Panzer divisions into two units -- one infantry heavy and the other armor heavy. That gives more slots, but some equipment will be found in both parts of the division.

Cheers

quote:

Condense


Thanks for the ideas/tips.

Doing the first thing is what I essentially did but then I started going a bit wild last few days...lol

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Post #: 10
RE: SPI War in Europe - 5/16/2019 7:29:19 PM   
cathar1244

 

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Zovs, another way to do it is to have outright unit replacement as the war goes on.

Date X reached: 2d Panzer Division [1] withdrawn or disbanded
Date Y reached: 2d Panzer Division [2] arrives as reinforcement in game

This would allow you to have as many representations of the divisions, with more equipment variation. Players may tolerate it or not like it, but as you note, the 24-slot limit is hard to work with over 5.5 years of war with constant equipment upgrades. Otherwise, yeah, generic equipment may be the only way. Even with that, consider:

Infantry squad
light recon vehicle
heavy recon vehicle
light tank
medium tank
heavy tank

Even if there are only two versions of those in your unit (early war / late war), that is still 12 slots in the unit. Three versions eats up 18 slots. Mortars and infantry guns ... you might be able to create a piece of equipment ("fire support" or such) that is a composite of several pieces. ("Radical solution").

Cheers

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Post #: 11
RE: SPI War in Europe - 5/16/2019 8:21:41 PM   
Zovs


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Thanks for the feedback.

For most of the units eveything I got works pretty good. I started fiddling with the stupid German panzers and it's like sticking your hand into a buzz saw. No wonder they lost the war lol, they made things more complicated. At any rate it's not a total loss, its just a minor set back. I do like the 'color' that having all the detailed TOE's info I put into. But I may scale back a bit (its easy with the tools we got now), for example I was trying to be clever with the Germans by mixing rifle, smg and hvy rifle squads, but that only leaves them with 37 AT, and originally I had wanted to include the next generation of 50L AT's (i.e. set it as 0/12 for example), but I filed up slots being clever. The combat factors and movement is good, but I may do some minor scaling once more with the TOE's.

The good part is I fiddle with 1 division from each of the waves, and one division from the Mot, Pz, PzG units and then it's just a copy and paste in a text editor (360, 72 and 18 times, lol) to fix up the other units. I am happy with the results so far. Once I get the Germans out of my hair, then I just need to add/update and expand the Russians, figure out the Naming convention I'll use for the CW and US (or leave it as is) and then double check all the units once more (currently there is 2,319 units, but I have not yet expanded out the Soviets, also I just checked the reinforcement schedule and I need to add the Romanian and Hungarian reinforcing units, plus I have to add the rest of the Luftwaffe-only have it done till 1/43, and then I need to add in the rest of the US air force and her Strategic bombers, and then decide if I or what I do about how to represent Naval warfare.

Thanks for the feed back cathar (Bill :)) it really does help since in my world no man is an island.

It will need some other testers when I am happy that it is ready.

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Post #: 12
RE: SPI War in Europe - 5/17/2019 5:17:26 PM   
Zovs


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So I found a good solution to fix or model the German Panzers. Also, I can say that I am 90% done with the Germans, just left is the rest of the Luftwaffe and whatever I decide to do with the Navy. The US and CW (need to add the MSU and Artillery to the CW) are also 90% done and they also need the same air and naval treatment. Both should not take too long to do (sans the naval part). All the Allied and Axis minors are about 95% done (just need to add the Free French). So that just leaves the Russians to expand out the ground forces and air from 1943-45 and then deal with the naval for both sides when I am done.

Just getting over the hurdle of the German panzer was a big step and thanks to Bill I was able to simply and yet have the up-gradable. For chrome I added in the schwere panzer battalions for both the Germany Army and SS.

Then I think I may try recoloring the counters using XML, but we will see.

< Message edited by Zovs -- 5/17/2019 5:18:29 PM >


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Post #: 13
RE: SPI War in Europe - 5/17/2019 9:04:42 PM   
Zovs


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@cathar (aka Bill),

While not perfect, this is my simplification of the detailed German Panzer Divisions that I distilled down to something like this, and it allows me to show the integration of the retrofitting of the Panzers as well and feels about right. The only exception is the SS, they were smaller and I could create two of them without driving me crazy with withdraws and events and such.


Pz.Div.Model=1 1939 A
<EQUIPMENT ID="1" NAME="PzKpfw IVA" NUMBER="56" MAX="56" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="2" NAME="SMG AT Squad" NUMBER="108" MAX="108" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="3" NAME="Rifle AT Squad" NUMBER="108" MAX="108" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="4" NAME="PzKpfw IIB" NUMBER="68" MAX="68" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="5" NAME="PzKpfw I" NUMBER="68" MAX="68" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="6" NAME="Hvy Motorcycle Squad" NUMBER="110" MAX="110" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="7" NAME="SdKfz 221" NUMBER="36" MAX="36" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="8" NAME="Engineer Squad" NUMBER="42" MAX="42" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="9" NAME="Reconnaissance Rifle Team" NUMBER="36" MAX="36" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="10" NAME="SdKfz 251/10" NUMBER="12" MAX="12" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="11" NAME="SdKfz 231-6" NUMBER="12" MAX="12" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="12" NAME="SdKfz 6/2 SPAAG" NUMBER="12" MAX="12" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="13" NAME="Heavy MG" NUMBER="144" MAX="144" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="14" NAME="SdKfz 251/1" NUMBER="72" MAX="72" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="15" NAME="105mm Gun" NUMBER="24" MAX="24" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="16" NAME="Medium Armored Truck" NUMBER="150" MAX="150" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="17" NAME="PzKpfw V Panther" NUMBER="0" MAX="88" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="18" NAME="PzKpfw IVH" NUMBER="0" MAX="68" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="19" NAME="PzKpfw IVF1" NUMBER="0" MAX="56" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="20" NAME="PzKpfw IVE" NUMBER="0" MAX="56" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="21" NAME="PzKpfw IVD" NUMBER="0" MAX="56" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="22" NAME="PzKpfw IIIJ" NUMBER="0" MAX="68" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="23" NAME="PzKpfw IIIG" NUMBER="0" MAX="68" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="24" NAME="PzKpfw IIF" NUMBER="0" MAX="68" DAMAGE="0"/>

Pz.Div.Model=2 1939 B
<EQUIPMENT ID="1" NAME="PzKpfw IVA" NUMBER="56" MAX="56" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="2" NAME="SMG AT Squad" NUMBER="108" MAX="108" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="3" NAME="Rifle AT Squad" NUMBER="108" MAX="108" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="4" NAME="PzKpfw IIID" NUMBER="68" MAX="68" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="5" NAME="PzKpfw IIB" NUMBER="68" MAX="68" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="6" NAME="Hvy Motorcycle Squad" NUMBER="110" MAX="110" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="7" NAME="SdKfz 222" NUMBER="36" MAX="36" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="8" NAME="Engineer Squad" NUMBER="42" MAX="42" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="9" NAME="Reconnaissance Rifle Team" NUMBER="36" MAX="36" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="10" NAME="SdKfz 251/10" NUMBER="12" MAX="12" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="11" NAME="SdKfz 231-8" NUMBER="12" MAX="12" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="12" NAME="SdKfz 10/4 SPAAG" NUMBER="12" MAX="12" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="13" NAME="Heavy MG" NUMBER="144" MAX="144" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="14" NAME="SdKfz 251/1" NUMBER="72" MAX="72" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="15" NAME="105mm Gun" NUMBER="24" MAX="24" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="16" NAME="Medium Armored Truck" NUMBER="150" MAX="150" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="17" NAME="PzKpfw V Panther" NUMBER="0" MAX="88" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="18" NAME="PzKpfw IVH" NUMBER="0" MAX="68" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="19" NAME="PzKpfw IVF2" NUMBER="0" MAX="56" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="20" NAME="PzKpfw IVE" NUMBER="0" MAX="56" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="21" NAME="PzKpfw IVD" NUMBER="0" MAX="56" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="22" NAME="PzKpfw IIIL" NUMBER="0" MAX="68" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="23" NAME="PzKpfw IIIH" NUMBER="0" MAX="68" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="24" NAME="PzKpfw IIF" NUMBER="0" MAX="68" DAMAGE="0"/>

Pz.Div.Model=3 1940 A
<EQUIPMENT ID="1" NAME="PzKpfw IVD" NUMBER="56" MAX="56" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="2" NAME="SMG AT Squad" NUMBER="108" MAX="108" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="3" NAME="Rifle AT Squad" NUMBER="108" MAX="108" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="4" NAME="PzKpfw IIID" NUMBER="68" MAX="68" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="5" NAME="PzKpfw IIB" NUMBER="68" MAX="68" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="6" NAME="Hvy Motorcycle Squad" NUMBER="110" MAX="110" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="7" NAME="SdKfz 221" NUMBER="36" MAX="36" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="8" NAME="Engineer Squad" NUMBER="42" MAX="42" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="9" NAME="Reconnaissance Rifle Team" NUMBER="36" MAX="36" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="10" NAME="SdKfz 251/10" NUMBER="12" MAX="12" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="11" NAME="SdKfz 231-6" NUMBER="12" MAX="12" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="12" NAME="SdKfz 6/2 SPAAG" NUMBER="12" MAX="12" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="13" NAME="Heavy MG" NUMBER="144" MAX="144" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="14" NAME="SdKfz 251/1" NUMBER="72" MAX="72" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="15" NAME="105mm Gun" NUMBER="24" MAX="24" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="16" NAME="Medium Armored Truck" NUMBER="150" MAX="150" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="17" NAME="PzKpfw V Panther" NUMBER="0" MAX="88" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="18" NAME="PzKpfw IVH" NUMBER="0" MAX="68" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="19" NAME="PzKpfw IVF2" NUMBER="0" MAX="56" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="20" NAME="PzKpfw IVE" NUMBER="0" MAX="56" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="21" NAME="PzKpfw IVF1" NUMBER="0" MAX="56" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="22" NAME="PzKpfw IIIL" NUMBER="0" MAX="68" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="23" NAME="PzKpfw IIIH" NUMBER="0" MAX="68" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="24" NAME="PzKpfw IIF" NUMBER="0" MAX="68" DAMAGE="0"/>

Pz.Div.Model=3 1940 B
<EQUIPMENT ID="1" NAME="PzKpfw IVD" NUMBER="56" MAX="56" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="2" NAME="SMG AT Squad" NUMBER="108" MAX="108" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="3" NAME="Rifle AT Squad" NUMBER="108" MAX="108" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="4" NAME="PzKpfw IIF" NUMBER="68" MAX="68" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="5" NAME="PzKpfw IIB" NUMBER="68" MAX="68" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="6" NAME="Hvy Motorcycle Squad" NUMBER="110" MAX="110" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="7" NAME="SdKfz 222" NUMBER="36" MAX="36" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="8" NAME="Engineer Squad" NUMBER="42" MAX="42" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="9" NAME="Reconnaissance Rifle Team" NUMBER="36" MAX="36" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="10" NAME="SdKfz 251/10" NUMBER="12" MAX="12" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="11" NAME="SdKfz 231-8" NUMBER="12" MAX="12" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="12" NAME="SdKfz 10/4 SPAAG" NUMBER="12" MAX="12" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="13" NAME="Heavy MG" NUMBER="144" MAX="144" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="14" NAME="SdKfz 251/1" NUMBER="72" MAX="72" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="15" NAME="105mm Gun" NUMBER="24" MAX="24" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="16" NAME="Medium Armored Truck" NUMBER="150" MAX="150" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="17" NAME="PzKpfw V Panther" NUMBER="0" MAX="88" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="18" NAME="PzKpfw IVH" NUMBER="0" MAX="68" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="19" NAME="PzKpfw IVF2" NUMBER="0" MAX="56" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="20" NAME="PzKpfw IVE" NUMBER="0" MAX="56" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="21" NAME="PzKpfw IIIL" NUMBER="0" MAX="68" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="22" NAME="PzKpfw IIIJ" NUMBER="0" MAX="68" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="23" NAME="PzKpfw IIIH" NUMBER="0" MAX="68" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="24" NAME="PzKpfw IIIG" NUMBER="0" MAX="68" DAMAGE="0"/>

Pz.Div.Model=4 1941 A
<EQUIPMENT ID="1" NAME="PzKpfw IVE" NUMBER="56" MAX="56" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="2" NAME="SMG AT Squad" NUMBER="108" MAX="108" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="3" NAME="Rifle AT Squad" NUMBER="108" MAX="108" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="4" NAME="PzKpfw IIIF" NUMBER="68" MAX="68" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="5" NAME="PzKpfw IIF" NUMBER="68" MAX="68" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="6" NAME="Hvy Motorcycle Squad" NUMBER="110" MAX="110" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="7" NAME="SdKfz 221" NUMBER="36" MAX="36" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="8" NAME="Engineer Squad" NUMBER="42" MAX="42" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="9" NAME="Reconnaissance Rifle Team" NUMBER="36" MAX="36" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="10" NAME="SdKfz 251/10" NUMBER="12" MAX="12" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="11" NAME="SdKfz 231-6" NUMBER="12" MAX="12" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="12" NAME="SdKfz 6/2 SPAAG" NUMBER="12" MAX="12" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="13" NAME="Heavy MG" NUMBER="144" MAX="144" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="14" NAME="SdKfz 251/1" NUMBER="72" MAX="72" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="15" NAME="105mm Gun" NUMBER="24" MAX="24" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="16" NAME="Medium Armored Truck" NUMBER="150" MAX="150" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="17" NAME="PzKpfw V Panther" NUMBER="0" MAX="88" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="18" NAME="PzKpfw IVH" NUMBER="0" MAX="68" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="19" NAME="PzKpfw IVF2" NUMBER="0" MAX="56" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="20" NAME="PzKpfw IVF1" NUMBER="0" MAX="56" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="21" NAME="PzKpfw IIIN" NUMBER="0" MAX="68" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="22" NAME="PzKpfw IIIL" NUMBER="0" MAX="68" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="23" NAME="PzKpfw IIIJ" NUMBER="0" MAX="68" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="24" NAME="PzKpfw IIIH" NUMBER="0" MAX="68" DAMAGE="0"/>

Pz.Div.Model=5 1941 B
<EQUIPMENT ID="1" NAME="PzKpfw IVE" NUMBER="56" MAX="56" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="2" NAME="SMG AT Squad" NUMBER="108" MAX="108" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="3" NAME="Rifle AT Squad" NUMBER="108" MAX="108" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="4" NAME="PzKpfw IIIF" NUMBER="68" MAX="68" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="5" NAME="PzKpfw IIF" NUMBER="68" MAX="68" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="6" NAME="Hvy Motorcycle Squad" NUMBER="110" MAX="110" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="7" NAME="SdKfz 222" NUMBER="36" MAX="36" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="8" NAME="Engineer Squad" NUMBER="42" MAX="42" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="9" NAME="Reconnaissance Rifle Team" NUMBER="36" MAX="36" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="10" NAME="SdKfz 251/10" NUMBER="12" MAX="12" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="11" NAME="SdKfz 231-8" NUMBER="12" MAX="12" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="12" NAME="SdKfz 6/2 SPAAG" NUMBER="12" MAX="12" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="13" NAME="Heavy MG" NUMBER="144" MAX="144" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="14" NAME="SdKfz 251/1" NUMBER="72" MAX="72" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="15" NAME="105mm Gun" NUMBER="24" MAX="24" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="16" NAME="Medium Armored Truck" NUMBER="150" MAX="150" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="17" NAME="PzKpfw V Panther" NUMBER="0" MAX="88" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="18" NAME="PzKpfw IVH" NUMBER="0" MAX="68" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="19" NAME="PzKpfw IVF2" NUMBER="0" MAX="56" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="20" NAME="PzKpfw IVF1" NUMBER="0" MAX="56" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="21" NAME="PzKpfw IIIN" NUMBER="0" MAX="68" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="22" NAME="PzKpfw IIIL" NUMBER="0" MAX="68" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="23" NAME="PzKpfw IIIJ" NUMBER="0" MAX="68" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="24" NAME="PzKpfw IIIH" NUMBER="0" MAX="68" DAMAGE="0"/>

Pz.Div.Model=6 1942 A
<EQUIPMENT ID="1" NAME="PzKpfw IVF1" NUMBER="56" MAX="56" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="2" NAME="SMG AT Squad" NUMBER="108" MAX="108" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="3" NAME="Rifle AT Squad" NUMBER="108" MAX="108" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="4" NAME="PzKpfw IIIG" NUMBER="68" MAX="68" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="5" NAME="PzKpfw IIIH" NUMBER="68" MAX="68" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="6" NAME="Hvy Motorcycle Squad" NUMBER="110" MAX="110" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="7" NAME="SdKfz 222" NUMBER="36" MAX="36" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="8" NAME="Engineer Squad" NUMBER="42" MAX="42" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="9" NAME="Reconnaissance Rifle Team" NUMBER="36" MAX="36" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="10" NAME="SdKfz 251/10" NUMBER="12" MAX="12" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="11" NAME="SdKfz 231-8" NUMBER="12" MAX="12" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="12" NAME="SdKfz 10/4 SPAAG" NUMBER="12" MAX="12" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="13" NAME="Heavy MG" NUMBER="144" MAX="144" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="14" NAME="SdKfz 251/1" NUMBER="72" MAX="72" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="15" NAME="105mm Gun" NUMBER="24" MAX="24" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="16" NAME="Medium Armored Truck" NUMBER="150" MAX="150" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="17" NAME="PzKpfw V Panther" NUMBER="0" MAX="88" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="18" NAME="PzKpfw IVH" NUMBER="0" MAX="68" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="19" NAME="PzKpfw IVF2" NUMBER="0" MAX="56" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="20" NAME="PzKpfw IIIN" NUMBER="0" MAX="68" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="21" NAME="PzKpfw IIIL" NUMBER="0" MAX="68" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="22" NAME="PzKpfw IIIJ" NUMBER="0" MAX="68" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="23" NAME="SdKfz 251/9" NUMBER="0" MAX="6" DAMAGE="0"/>

Pz.Div.Model=6 1942 B
<EQUIPMENT ID="1" NAME="PzKpfw IVF1" NUMBER="56" MAX="56" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="2" NAME="SMG AT Squad" NUMBER="108" MAX="108" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="3" NAME="Rifle AT Squad" NUMBER="108" MAX="108" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="4" NAME="PzKpfw IIIG" NUMBER="68" MAX="68" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="5" NAME="PzKpfw IIIH" NUMBER="68" MAX="68" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="6" NAME="Hvy Motorcycle Squad" NUMBER="110" MAX="110" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="7" NAME="SdKfz 221" NUMBER="36" MAX="36" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="8" NAME="Engineer Squad" NUMBER="42" MAX="42" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="9" NAME="Reconnaissance Rifle Team" NUMBER="36" MAX="36" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="10" NAME="SdKfz 251/10" NUMBER="12" MAX="12" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="11" NAME="SdKfz 231-6" NUMBER="12" MAX="12" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="12" NAME="SdKfz 6/2 SPAAG" NUMBER="12" MAX="12" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="13" NAME="Heavy MG" NUMBER="144" MAX="144" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="14" NAME="SdKfz 251/1" NUMBER="72" MAX="72" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="15" NAME="105mm Gun" NUMBER="24" MAX="24" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="16" NAME="Medium Armored Truck" NUMBER="150" MAX="150" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="17" NAME="PzKpfw V Panther" NUMBER="0" MAX="88" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="18" NAME="PzKpfw IVH" NUMBER="0" MAX="68" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="19" NAME="PzKpfw IVF2" NUMBER="0" MAX="56" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="20" NAME="PzKpfw IIIN" NUMBER="0" MAX="68" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="21" NAME="PzKpfw IIIL" NUMBER="0" MAX="68" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="22" NAME="PzKpfw IIIJ" NUMBER="0" MAX="68" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="23" NAME="SdKfz 251/9" NUMBER="0" MAX="6" DAMAGE="0"/>

_____________________________


War in the East/War in the East II - Alpha Test Teams
DG CWIE2 tester/SPWW2 and SPMBT playtester/scenario creator

(in reply to Zovs)
Post #: 14
RE: SPI War in Europe - 5/18/2019 5:01:35 AM   
cathar1244

 

Posts: 483
Joined: 9/5/2009
Status: offline
Zovs ... thinking about late war (and other issues).

* The recon rifle teams can probably go. You have plenty of armored cars for recon capability.
* No bridging engineers. Handled with separate units or will you mod the engineer squad to be capable of major fording operations?
* Why armored trucks vice regular trucks?
* No mortars, 8cm or 12cm apparent.
* 1943 -- "Hummel" 15cm SP guns appear
* No slots for divisional AT battalion equipment (maybe create separate "AT asset" units of battalion strength to match the actual number of PzJgr battalions fielded by the Germans)

These decisions are always teeth-grinding exercises.

Cheers

(in reply to Zovs)
Post #: 15
RE: SPI War in Europe - 5/18/2019 9:47:40 AM   
Zovs


Posts: 2975
Joined: 2/23/2009
From: United States
Status: online
Crap! In my excitement I overwrote somehow the 81 mtrs and the ATs 😡

I’ll have to fix that and redo them next week! Curses to the 24 system slot limits!

_____________________________


War in the East/War in the East II - Alpha Test Teams
DG CWIE2 tester/SPWW2 and SPMBT playtester/scenario creator

(in reply to cathar1244)
Post #: 16
RE: SPI War in Europe - 5/23/2019 5:27:19 PM   
cathar1244

 

Posts: 483
Joined: 9/5/2009
Status: offline
Zovs,

Ran across this quote in an old issue of MOVES. Determining counter strength was not exactly a rifle-counting exercise in this case, heh.

Cheers

quote:

Finnish units were originally 2-5's, a strength which made them ineffective and seemed to contradict the Soviet experience in the recently concluded Russo-Finnish War. They were then upgraded to 6-S's, which made them too powerful, since they could now storm into Leningrad with impunity. We compromised by making them 4-5's and introducing a group of "political" restrictions in order to severely limit their actions.


Also saw this in MOVES, re: War in the West.

quote:

The strategic bombardment routine occurs every four turns, starting with the first turn that the Allies have a strategic bombardment point (each representing about 7,500 bomber sorties) available


Interesting the points represented sorties vice actual aircraft.

< Message edited by cathar1244 -- 5/23/2019 5:39:59 PM >

(in reply to Zovs)
Post #: 17
RE: SPI War in Europe - 5/23/2019 8:53:21 PM   
Zovs


Posts: 2975
Joined: 2/23/2009
From: United States
Status: online
Yes that it interesting.

Good thing for us with TOAW is I can plug in the actual (or close to) TOE's for a units, adjust some variables for say surprise on the first turn of any of those (think Sept 39, May 40, June 41, etc for the Axis and then do sam for the Allies), but I'll use theater options. So I have one for Barbarossa, but it's up the the Axis player to decided when to use it. I am thinking of restructuring the events so that you have to pull say invade France first (theater option) to get the most bang for you buck, right now I have it set to where when May 10 1940 rolls around the Axis automatically get a surprise increase.

I have finished upgrading the Axis, they are pretty much set in stone I think (barring any units I may have missed which would be Hungary and Romanian reinforcements, just thought if I need to add in a couple of chrome units like the Croat Regiment and 250 Spanish division. Working on the Allies now. I finished up the Soviets yesterday after about my 5 or 6th restructuring of their TOE's. I have not built any Soviet Airborne yet, nor any Naval infantry and no Guards Mech or Tank Corps yet (I have some Guards Mech, Tank, Cav brigades). I just added the 6th Soviet Air Force which takes them into 1944, I may add a 7th Air Force (the Air Forces I use are pretty big in both numbers of units and the planes, this is one area I am slightly weak in, for each board WIE air point I used essentially a squadron as a representative. I may be wrong here but I chose 30, 60, 90, 120, 160, 190 as a baseline, from my totals it seems to add up and make sense. I have to still expand out the USAF, they have only two Air Groups right now and I need to make at least 4 more I think.

The British were done, but they are the worst of all to research and find a good representation of things. I think they reorganized more than the Russians lol. In the board game you never really disband units and just keep playing with them in that game it's pretty high casualties, with lots of Ex and De killing of the 3-8 tank brigades or flipping the 9-8 armor divisions to 2-8 etc. So I have 17 British Tank Brigades in my scenario now plus the armor divisions, all start at vastly reduced levels of equipment but I have also integrated in upgrades for all sides and what I think will be (hopefully) a clever way to use TOAW to model this. Essentially old models will stop being produced over time and then the new ones will kick in, in the field you may have at start 35 junk light tanks and over the course of a couple of years it may end up at 10 or being at full strength when the new replacements kick in and start filtering in. So in a few battles those old junkers will be gone down to 0 and the new stuff will fill in.

At least that is the plan and how I have designed it.

Now if I can just fix all the Tommies Armor brigades and divisions I can finish up the Soviet and US air force stuff. But sometimes I keep finding things to fiddle with. I need to get the CW in order and I can run another good test locally. I have not done so for about 3 or 4 days. Once I am happy with the CW like how I am with the Soviets and US (mind you the CW I just need to fix up the Armor brigades and divisions) and then a couple of quick copy formations and fix up stuff for the US and Soviet air and I should have a good thing to test, sans any crazy talk of Naval stuff. lol

I think (from reading your posts) you have more head knowledge of the Air stuff so maybe I can lean on your a bit for that? I don't think on average 120 planes is too much in one air unit, at least the totals seem to add up.

_____________________________


War in the East/War in the East II - Alpha Test Teams
DG CWIE2 tester/SPWW2 and SPMBT playtester/scenario creator

(in reply to cathar1244)
Post #: 18
RE: SPI War in Europe - 5/24/2019 5:08:25 AM   
cathar1244

 

Posts: 483
Joined: 9/5/2009
Status: offline
quote:

I don't think on average 120 planes is too much in one air unit,


Zovs, IIRC, a German Jagdgeschwader had around that many aircraft (give or take some 10s depending on assigned strength).

Note on the British, and I don't recall this in the War in Europe board games. They should reach a point in the game where they start having huge issues with replacements, particularly infantry replacements. This reached crisis point in Normandy and strongly influenced Montgomery's course of action thereafter. Not sure how you're doing replacements, but you may wish to give the British a fixed total of infantry type replacements, and once they're done, they're done.

I'll help out with the air where I can. Honestly don't know much about the air war, although my project with the air equipment in the game is raising my awareness of the aircraft used.

Cheers

< Message edited by cathar1244 -- 5/24/2019 6:13:21 AM >

(in reply to Zovs)
Post #: 19
RE: SPI War in Europe - 5/24/2019 8:52:54 PM   
Zovs


Posts: 2975
Joined: 2/23/2009
From: United States
Status: online
So done for the weekend. Got a lot finished.

I still need to tweak (finish) the CW Armor brigades and divisions. I still need to add Soviet Airborne and Naval Brigades. I still need to add some Guards Tank and Mech Corps and a few Guards Rocket Artillery. I still need or would like to add some partisans/guerrillas. I also need to add a lot more events to encompass weather fronts, and still think I want to add a few more theater options.

I have not done anything about the Naval warfare aspect and I am not sure if I will or wont yet. At best I can think of adding the capital ships and DD/CC, but they would have a very limited role at best.

I don't have handy the production figures for the real war, but these are my totals so far and they seem 'correct'?

---------------------------------------------------
German Air
Me-109 (early): 1320
Ju-87 (early): 2600
Me-110: 2340
Ju-88 (early): 3900
He-11: 3700
Do-17: 200
Me-109E/F: 4680
Ju-87 (late): 5000
FW-190 (early): 1440
Me-110G: 1280
Me-109 (late): 3200
FW-190 (late): 3200
Ju-88 (late): 2000
Hs-129: 1200
He-219: 800
Me-410: 800
Do-335: 800
Ju-88G: 400
Ar-234: 400
Me-163: 400
He-162: 200
Me-262: 1400
---------------------------------------------------
Soviet Air
I-5: 1200
I-15: 1320
I-16: 1320
I-17: 2520
TB-3: 800
SB-2: 960
Pe-8: 1520
Il-4: 1280
MiG-1: 1200
Su-2: 1120
LaGG-3: 1200
MiG-3: 1200
Pe-2: 960
Yak-4: 1200
Il-2: 1560
Yak-1: 1560
Il-10: 1000
Tu-2: 600
Yak-9: 1440
La-5FN: 1000
La-7: 1000
MiG-5: 1000
---------------------------------------------------
USAF
A-20 Havoc: 720
P-40 (late): 200
B-25 Mitchell (early): 200
B-25 Mitchell (late): 1000
B-26 Marauder (early): 400
B-26 Marauder (late): 1000
P-38 Lightning (early): 1650
P-38 Lightning (late): 750
B-24 (early): 1600
B-17 (early): 1600
P-47 Thunderbolt (early): 1400
P-47 Thunderbolt (late): 4200
P-51 Mustang (early): 1400
P-51 Mustang (late): 4000
P-39 Aircobra: 960
P-61 Black Widow: 600
B-24 (late): 2000
B-17 (late): 2000
---------------------------------------------------
RAF
Battle: 120
Gauntlet: 120
Nimrod: 60
Demon: 30
Gladiator: 240
Hurricane: 780
Spitfire (early): 360
Blenheim: 200
Wellesley: 200
Hampden: 200
Spitfire (late): 3540
Wellington: 200
Halifax: 840
Whitley: 1140
Defiant: 180
Whirlwind: 600
Stirling: 1920
Beaufighter (early): 480
Typhoon: 4080
Mosquito: 1440
Hornet F3: 300
Tempest: 300
Beaufighter (late): 300
Lincoln: 480
Mosquito Mk.II: 1440
Lancaster (early): 1200
Lancaster (late): 200
---------------------------------------------------


Happy Memorial Day!

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War in the East/War in the East II - Alpha Test Teams
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(in reply to cathar1244)
Post #: 20
RE: SPI War in Europe - 5/28/2019 10:46:53 PM   
Bamilus


Posts: 444
Joined: 4/30/2010
From: The Old Northwest
Status: offline
Pumped for this

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(in reply to Zovs)
Post #: 21
RE: SPI War in Europe - 5/29/2019 3:35:28 PM   
Hellen_slith


Posts: 329
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bamilus

Pumped for this


Me, too. Thanks for all the hard work you do!
-H-

(in reply to Bamilus)
Post #: 22
RE: SPI War in Europe - 5/29/2019 7:12:20 PM   
Zovs


Posts: 2975
Joined: 2/23/2009
From: United States
Status: online
Thanks for the encouragement. Sometimes it an uphill battle.

I added in the Guards Tank and Mech Corps, and also some Mot.Art. and Mot.Rkt. units, tweaked a bunch of units/formations and added more events. My head is hurting from events, need to write more, just realized I forgot the Russkies Airborne units and naval-infantry units if I wanted to add them, would make for good chrome and JFD (if you played the old board games you'd know his initials) would be proud of me... lol

Couple of screen shots of whole area and taking Warsaw on turn 2. Still need to stiffen up the Poles a bit.

The whole map...


Zoomed out once...


Warsaw captured week two...


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War in the East/War in the East II - Alpha Test Teams
DG CWIE2 tester/SPWW2 and SPMBT playtester/scenario creator

(in reply to Hellen_slith)
Post #: 23
RE: SPI War in Europe - 5/30/2019 12:58:44 AM   
Bombur

 

Posts: 3589
Joined: 7/2/2004
Status: offline
I think Soviet aircraft production is underestimated here. Are you interested in an alternative dataset for aircraft? I´m making a mod for Europe Aflame with changed equipment data. It includes lots of new aircraft and also, changed combat rates. Some examples.
Me-109E/F now has 4 types: Bf-109E; Bf-109E-7; Bf-109F-2; Bf-109F-4.
New aircraft: Yak-7; I-153
What is if French aircraft: VG-33; VG-39; Bloch 210
And many mre changes. I hope to reviw land equipment too. I´m taking care to have the file fully compatible with TOAW IV database (not changing the equipment order presentation)

(in reply to Zovs)
Post #: 24
RE: SPI War in Europe - 5/30/2019 5:19:04 PM   
Zovs


Posts: 2975
Joined: 2/23/2009
From: United States
Status: online
Thanks Bombur.

I found a very nice eqp here called TOAW-IV DB version 5 I think it is. There are parts of it that I'd like to use.

My current eqp I have added several new units (mainly this scenario is set to 25 miles, so I created a couple of special German, US and Russian artillery pieces that can reach out 2 hexes, plus some Polizei and NKVD security units and kubelwagons).

I am afraid if I used the very nice TOAW-IV DB version 5 eqp file it would mess up my scenario. So the only other option is for me to cut & past pieces out of it that I'd like to add to the end of my equipment list.

Currently I have 1164 Axis units and 1831 Allied units.

How far short are you thinking the Soviet aircraft production is off?



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War in the East/War in the East II - Alpha Test Teams
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(in reply to Bombur)
Post #: 25
RE: SPI War in Europe - 5/30/2019 8:49:44 PM   
Zovs


Posts: 2975
Joined: 2/23/2009
From: United States
Status: online
So I have added more events, and created and added in the Soviet Airborne and Naval units.

So no Naval Units as of yet, but I think this is mostly complete. I think.

Oh, just thought of something! arrghh. I need to add some partisans next. I have an even for the Yugos, but need some Guerrilla units. I think I'll make some Yugo, Russian and French Partisans. I'll do that tomorrow.

Is there any interest in any play testers on this one?

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War in the East/War in the East II - Alpha Test Teams
DG CWIE2 tester/SPWW2 and SPMBT playtester/scenario creator

(in reply to Zovs)
Post #: 26
RE: SPI War in Europe - 5/30/2019 11:31:05 PM   
Bombur

 

Posts: 3589
Joined: 7/2/2004
Status: offline
I will take a look at Soviet production data and then I tell you. Would you allow to look at this TOAW IV DB version?

(in reply to Zovs)
Post #: 27
RE: SPI War in Europe - 5/30/2019 11:41:47 PM   
Bombur

 

Posts: 3589
Joined: 7/2/2004
Status: offline
Some data for Soviet AF production

I-16 10.200 aircraft (many of them before the war)
I-17 didn´t enter production
I-15 3300 production ended in 1937
I-153 (isn´t in the database) 3400 (1939-41)
Mig-1 100 aircraft
Mig-3 3500 aircraft
TB-3 800 (before WW2)
Yak-1 8700
Yak-9 17000
Pe-2 11.000 (production kept until Dec-1945)
Mig-5 didn´t enter production
Pe-8 90
IL-2 (36.000!)

(in reply to Bombur)
Post #: 28
RE: SPI War in Europe - 5/31/2019 2:58:05 AM   
Zovs


Posts: 2975
Joined: 2/23/2009
From: United States
Status: online
Thanks for the production numbers. I don't know if the game engine can handle that many aircraft. Maybe it can. I don't know if I can create that many units/squadrons with out effecting the balance.

The TOAW IV Database is around here someplace, let me try to find it for you. Its pretty awesome.

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War in the East/War in the East II - Alpha Test Teams
DG CWIE2 tester/SPWW2 and SPMBT playtester/scenario creator

(in reply to Bombur)
Post #: 29
RE: SPI War in Europe - 5/31/2019 2:59:31 AM   
Zovs


Posts: 2975
Joined: 2/23/2009
From: United States
Status: online
Here it is. It's actually at version 5.1

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4431184

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War in the East/War in the East II - Alpha Test Teams
DG CWIE2 tester/SPWW2 and SPMBT playtester/scenario creator

(in reply to Zovs)
Post #: 30
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