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A Ship; She, He or It?

 
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A Ship; She, He or It? - 4/24/2019 6:55:04 PM   
warspite1


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I have to say I'm with the admiral on this.

I've been reading The Imperial Japanese Navy in the Pacific War (Stille) recently and he routinely refers to ships as 'it'. It really, really grates .

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6952911/Scottish-Maritime-Museum-stops-centuries-old-tradition-referring-vessels-her.html

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RE: A Ship; She, He or It? - 4/24/2019 6:58:44 PM   
Blond_Knight


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Well ofcourse Britain and therefore the US refers to ships as 'she', but I believe the Russian tradition is 'he'.

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RE: A Ship; She, He or It? - 4/24/2019 7:03:42 PM   
Lobster


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Traveller.com.au: Since 2002, Lloyd's List, which began reporting shipping news since 1734, has referred to all vessels as "it", and many news sources have adopted this new convention. Happily, most sailors have not.

Nobody really knows why they are referred to as she. There are only theories. As long as the other guy's she/it sinks first I don't care.

Oh look, I made a pun without intending to.




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RE: A Ship; She, He or It? - 4/24/2019 7:04:30 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Blond_Knight

Well ofcourse Britain and therefore the US refers to ships as 'she', but I believe the Russian tradition is 'he'.
warspite1

But the way things are going - and the obsession with being gender-neutral - means that the Russians will change their approach too no doubt. 'It' just doesn't sound right.... and when applied to certain vessels it's doubly wrong imo. But then I'm old.....


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RE: A Ship; She, He or It? - 4/24/2019 7:19:35 PM   
Lecivius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1
But then I'm old.....


Welcome to the club

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RE: A Ship; She, He or It? - 4/24/2019 7:21:01 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lecivius


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1
But then I'm old.....


Welcome to the club
warspite1

Is there a club? Ohhh I think I joined a club once... but if I did, I've forgotten the name of it....


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RE: A Ship; She, He or It? - 4/24/2019 8:02:00 PM   
Lobster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lecivius


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1
But then I'm old.....


Welcome to the club
warspite1

Is there a club? Ohhh I think I joined a club once... but if I did, I've forgotten the name of it....



That's ok. No one remembers where or when it met.

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RE: A Ship; She, He or It? - 4/24/2019 8:23:15 PM   
Zorch

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lecivius


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1
But then I'm old.....


Welcome to the club
warspite1

Is there a club? Ohhh I think I joined a club once... but if I did, I've forgotten the name of it....



That's ok. No one remembers where or when it met.

As usual, no one invited me. But then, I wouldn't want to belong to a club that would have someone like me as a member.

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RE: A Ship; She, He or It? - 4/24/2019 9:41:32 PM   
GaryChildress

 

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I remember a Saturday Night Live skit long ago where a couple actors dressed in Navy uniforms are standing by a railing commenting on ships. "She was a fine ship." and all that stuff, they would say to each other. Then, at the end, one turns to the other and asks how his new born baby is doing and the guy replies something like, "it's doing fine but starting to teethe."

< Message edited by GaryChildress -- 4/24/2019 9:44:28 PM >

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RE: A Ship; She, He or It? - 4/24/2019 11:31:32 PM   
Cataphract88


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Zorch, you beat me to that punchline.

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RE: A Ship; She, He or It? - 4/25/2019 4:57:16 AM   
MrsWargamer

 

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I prefer ships to be 'she'.

So I guess that gives you the woman's vote here :)

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RE: A Ship; She, He or It? - 4/25/2019 6:28:05 AM   
RoryAndersonWS


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US Navy History & Heritage Command's FAQ has this to say:

In languages that use gender for common nouns, boats, ships, and other vehicles almost invariably use a feminine form. Likewise, early seafarers spoke of their ships in the feminine gender for the close dependence they had on their ships for life and sustenance.

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RE: A Ship; She, He or It? - 4/25/2019 11:43:38 AM   
wodin


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She I'd say.

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RE: A Ship; She, He or It? - 4/25/2019 12:22:53 PM   
RFalvo69


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In Italian it is basically arbitrary. Aircraft carriers, Battleships and Frigates are a “she”. Submarines, Cruisers and destroyers are a “He”. Don’t ask me why: I don’t know.

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RE: A Ship; She, He or It? - 4/25/2019 1:45:28 PM   
Lobster


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Just because.

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RE: A Ship; She, He or It? - 4/25/2019 2:02:16 PM   
Piteas


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In Spanish, all the warships are "He" less the frigates and patrols... they´re "she".
Don´t ask me why

< Message edited by Piteas -- 4/25/2019 2:07:16 PM >

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RE: A Ship; She, He or It? - 4/25/2019 2:52:47 PM   
Crossroads


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In Finnish there’s only two third-person pronouns, one gender-neutral for humans, another for everything else. So my vote for ’it’.

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RE: A Ship; She, He or It? - 4/25/2019 3:13:12 PM   
76mm


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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

...the obsession with being gender-neutral - means that the Russians will change their approach too no doubt.


"Not bloody likely..."

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RE: A Ship; She, He or It? - 4/25/2019 3:36:17 PM   
Kuokkanen

 

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In Finnish language, it has been it. Also our language don't have he/she, only 1 word for both genders without divider.

Coincidentally, words city & town are also grouped under 1 word, kaupunki, and in change of millennia was an outrage when news said that EU has declared Finland only having 7 kaupunki. News didn't say in what language it was said, and if it was in English, whether the word used was city or town.

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RE: A Ship; She, He or It? - 4/25/2019 5:10:53 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kuokkanen

In Finnish language, it has been it. Also our language don't have he/she, only 1 word for both genders without divider.

Coincidentally, words city & town are also grouped under 1 word, kaupunki, and in change of millennia was an outrage when news said that EU has declared Finland only having 7 kaupunki. News didn't say in what language it was said, and if it was in English, whether the word used was city or town.
warspite1

So in Finnish, if you say "he went to the shops", you say "it went to the shops??


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RE: A Ship; She, He or It? - 4/26/2019 7:12:05 AM   
Crossroads


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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kuokkanen

In Finnish language, it has been it. Also our language don't have he/she, only 1 word for both genders without divider.

Coincidentally, words city & town are also grouped under 1 word, kaupunki, and in change of millennia was an outrage when news said that EU has declared Finland only having 7 kaupunki. News didn't say in what language it was said, and if it was in English, whether the word used was city or town.
warspite1

So in Finnish, if you say "he went to the shops", you say "it went to the shops??



he/she => "hän"
it => "se"

So I guess the translation to English would be something like "a person went to the shops", or something to that effect. As "it" ("se") should refer to animals and objects, only.

One of the local comedy show protagonists of yesteryears was a super hero similar to He-Man, known as "Hän-Mies". Joke being that although now the pronoun is gender neutral, "man" in Finnish refers only to males (and not to human beings, too).

While He-Man is of course a play with words as well, here the exact translation actually refers to a gender-neutral male




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Crossroads -- 4/26/2019 7:21:35 AM >


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RE: A Ship; She, He or It? - 4/26/2019 1:49:00 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Crossroads

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kuokkanen

In Finnish language, it has been it. Also our language don't have he/she, only 1 word for both genders without divider.

Coincidentally, words city & town are also grouped under 1 word, kaupunki, and in change of millennia was an outrage when news said that EU has declared Finland only having 7 kaupunki. News didn't say in what language it was said, and if it was in English, whether the word used was city or town.
warspite1

So in Finnish, if you say "he went to the shops", you say "it went to the shops??



he/she => "hän"
it => "se"

So I guess the translation to English would be something like "a person went to the shops", or something to that effect. As "it" ("se") should refer to animals and objects, only.

One of the local comedy show protagonists of yesteryears was a super hero similar to He-Man, known as "Hän-Mies". Joke being that although now the pronoun is gender neutral, "man" in Finnish refers only to males (and not to human beings, too).

While He-Man is of course a play with words as well, here the exact translation actually refers to a gender-neutral male



warspite1

Thank-you for the explanation .


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RE: A Ship; She, He or It? - 4/26/2019 3:02:59 PM   
Kuokkanen

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Crossroads

he/she => "hän"
it => "se"

So I guess the translation to English would be something like "a person went to the shops", or something to that effect. As "it" ("se") should refer to animals and objects, only.

It is used for humans too:
"Mitä se sanoi?" = "What it said?"

What comes to "man", translations are made, depending on context, as Finnish equivalents for human (ihminen) and mankind (ihmiskunta).

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RE: A Ship; She, He or It? - 4/26/2019 7:11:34 PM   
Poopyhead

 

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Soon this won't matter, as English is being forced into androgyny. Ze will use a neutral pronoun for hir ship hirself.

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RE: A Ship; She, He or It? - 4/26/2019 11:26:23 PM   
z1812


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Long ago, I asked my My Uncle, who was a British Sailor in the Navy, why ships were referred to as "she". He replied without any hesitation, in a wonderful salty accent, that it was because "Ships like women were hard to handle". Of course that was long before Gender Sensitivity.

< Message edited by z1812 -- 4/26/2019 11:27:12 PM >

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RE: A Ship; She, He or It? - 4/28/2019 5:40:56 PM   
Freigeist83


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"She" of course. Old sailor tradition...

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Post #: 26
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