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I suck at ASW...

 
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I suck at ASW... - 4/24/2019 1:01:29 AM   
Eboreg

 

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So I'm trying the "Canary's Cage" standalone scenario and I am finding it flat out impossible to finish. The numerous fighter aircraft going over my task force, piece of cake. The insertion of the spec ops team, easy peasy. The four Ramadan missile boats sending dozens of AShMs at me, I can handle. The strike on the enemy landing force, tricky but doable. No, the biggest problem is those [DELETED] submarines picking off the frigates of Grupo Alfa one by one. My usual tactics against submarines involve spending the entire time at creep speed and using my ASW aircraft to carpet the entire area in sonobuoys but I can't afford to stay slow due to the time limit and the ASW AO is limited due to the fact that the airspace is highly contested. How do I make sure that those submarines never get in firing range of their torpedoes? (Especially since sub-launched AShMs are delightfully squishy)
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RE: I suck at ASW... - 4/24/2019 1:02:16 PM   
SeaQueen


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Speed is actually an advantage for surface ships if you use it correctly. In order to torpedo a fast surface ship a submarine has to either A) go faster, or B) start out in front of it. The faster a surface ship goes, the narrower the arc in front of them is from which a submarine might originate and get close enough to shoot a torpedo. Speed, therefore helps determine where to concentrate your ASW assets (the front), because no smart submarine is going to go very fast.

That being said, I think you have the right idea about using aircraft. The great thing about using aircraft to attack submarines is that they can search a large area quickly, and submarines can't typically shoot back at them. If you're doing everything as well as possible, then surface ships should rarely have to defend themselves and it'll mostly be a helicopter and MPA fight.


(in reply to Eboreg)
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RE: I suck at ASW... - 4/24/2019 3:13:48 PM   
Gunner98

 

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To add to SeaQueen's comments. If you have an asset (cannot recall the scenario) such as an SSN, or less ideally a detached FFG with a good towed array sonar, that can creep and listen for any sub that decides to do a sprint, you increase your odds of finding a lurking attacker before he's in position.

Whenever possible use your aircraft, a knife fight between a surface ship and a sub will almost always go wrong.

B

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(in reply to Eboreg)
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RE: I suck at ASW... - 4/24/2019 9:16:51 PM   
ARCNA442

 

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Speed isn't an advantage in that scenario because there is only one route that will make it to the destination in time and the scenario designer put all the enemy submarines on that route.

My suggestion is to combine Grupo Alpha and Grupo Delta into a single formation, that will give you 11 ASW helos and 3 MPAs. With that many aircraft you should be able to saturate a roughly 50nm wide and 15nm deep area 15nm in front of your ships.

Also, active sonar will perform better than passive sonar when moving at the ~15 knot speed required. The de Bazan's have the best hull sonar, though it isn't great, and the Baleares have a VDS that might help against deeper subs so you might try combining those as your secondary ASW screen. Finally, you could try setting the Perry's to sprint and drift to get the most out of their towed arrays.

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RE: I suck at ASW... - 4/25/2019 6:14:37 PM   
SeaQueen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunner98
Whenever possible use your aircraft, a knife fight between a surface ship and a sub will almost always go wrong.


Do they have VLA/ASROC in this scenario? If they do, then it might not go wrong, but it's certainly not desirable, either. When I transit a surface ship, I think of it as a layered defense. My first layer of defense is the MPA, my second is the helicopter, the third is VLA/ASROC if I have it, and my fourth is over-the-side torpedoes/depth charges/RBUs/hedgehogs. I set up the patrol areas and engagement areas to reflect that, so before the ship even passes, the path ahead has already been searched twice by helicopters and MPA. Hopefully the MPA kills all the submarines a long way away from the ship, the helicopters back it up, and the VLA and over-the-side are reduced to last-ditch defenses when everything else fails.


< Message edited by SeaQueen -- 4/30/2019 9:35:44 PM >

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RE: I suck at ASW... - 4/25/2019 9:02:34 PM   
Cik

 

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there is VLA IIRC.

the key to success in that one is to make sure that your helicopters have active sonar on and they are set to freefire. you can also move more of them into your vanguard by the use of ferry missions, as neither group really has enough to protect itself well.

MPAs are tricky to use because as you steam south you basically leave the area where your land-based hornets are capable of providing CAP, and so the MPA become increasingly vulnerable. i generally stop use of them after 12-18 hours depending on the air situation as it becomes too dangerous.

tips i can offer, i suppose:

1. stack up your helicopters, link up the groups a little more
2. make sure the helicopters are sonar=active
3. your ships are going to be moving quickly so their passive probably won't work very well unless you are using sprint + drift. you may want to consider active sonar on them too.
4. MPA as agressively as you can ahead of you for as long as you safely can.
5. make sure you turn OFF AAR for most of your guys, as the 4(?) KC-130 you have are not nearly enough to provide enough gas for even a small subset of your forces. all available fuel should be going to your forward CAP, as it's the most important mission you have. you might ask "why not the MPA?" the MPA can comfortably operate without the tankers, but the MPA cannot operate comfortably without nearby hornets to catch launches off of the coastal bases.
6. make sure you are using the AEW helicopters. they can actually spot subs (amusingly) if the subs pop up to recharge, you can spot their periscopes/snorkels visually or with the AEW helo's surface search radar.

admittedly, some of this is just luck. you may lose a ship every now and then to a guy who's just in your path at 0 knots and your random-walking sonar dips failed to spot him. no way you should lose the whole surface group to one sub though, you have a fairly capable ASW system, almost anything that puts a torp in the water should die pretty quickly afterwards due to VLA / a helicopter flyby.


(in reply to SeaQueen)
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RE: I suck at ASW... - 4/26/2019 3:52:50 PM   
Eboreg

 

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I would like to proudly state that the NAIL forces have surrendered with Spanish losses amounting to the Frigate Baleares, which took two Harpoons from a Romeo, the Submarine Galerna, which sacrificed itself to take out the last of the enemy counterlanding force, 6 Hornets and 1 Harrier that over-extended in order to take out enemy ASW helicopters and E-2 HawkEyes, and 3 Harriers I was using for "Buffy Duty" (what I call AAW patrols meant to take out enemy AShMs, named after the Vampire Slayer) when they got jumped by enemy fighters carrying BVR missiles (I used the Sidewinder-armed Harriers from the Principe De Asturias as Buffys, In hindsight, probably not a good idea).

The trick with countering the enemy subs turned out to be slowing down Grupo Alfa to creep speed whenever the MPAs were off station.

< Message edited by Eboreg -- 4/26/2019 3:53:59 PM >

(in reply to Cik)
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RE: I suck at ASW... - 4/26/2019 7:01:25 PM   
SeaQueen


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From: Washington D.C.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Eboreg
... 3 Harriers I was using for "Buffy Duty" (what I call AAW patrols meant to take out enemy AShMs, named after the Vampire Slayer) ...


BuffyCAP. I love it!

< Message edited by SeaQueen -- 4/26/2019 7:02:04 PM >

(in reply to Eboreg)
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