Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

Rebasing Aircraft and Furballs

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> The Operational Art of War IV >> The War Room >> Rebasing Aircraft and Furballs Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Rebasing Aircraft and Furballs - 4/15/2019 10:57:59 AM   
StuccoFresco

 

Posts: 205
Joined: 9/17/2004
From: Italy
Status: offline
A couple noob questions about aviation:

- Fewer hexes between where an air unit is based and its objectives are good, yes? It means my aircrafts have to travel less and get more loitering time, giving me better results in missions, right?

- If this is true, moving aircrafts into air bases closer to the frontline it's a good idea, BUT does it raise the risk of enemy's airfield strike?

- What is, in game terms, a furball? How does it happen? What triggers it?
Post #: 1
RE: Rebasing Aircraft and Furballs - 4/15/2019 11:31:42 AM   
cathar1244

 

Posts: 471
Joined: 9/5/2009
Status: offline
It would take testing, as far as I know, to test those assumptions. Off hand, I would not assume what you mention below.

Cheers

quote:

ORIGINAL: StuccoFresco

A couple noob questions about aviation:

- Fewer hexes between where an air unit is based and its objectives are good, yes? It means my aircrafts have to travel less and get more loitering time, giving me better results in missions, right?

- If this is true, moving aircrafts into air bases closer to the frontline it's a good idea, BUT does it raise the risk of enemy's airfield strike?

- What is, in game terms, a furball? How does it happen? What triggers it?


(in reply to StuccoFresco)
Post #: 2
RE: Rebasing Aircraft and Furballs - 4/16/2019 2:08:15 AM   
larryfulkerson

 

Posts: 37771
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline
It's always been my understanding that the shorter the distance between attacking aircraft and their targets was a good thing but I have no idea how the game engine models the airstrike and I have to agree that some tests might ought to be done to see if there really is a difference based on distance. And I try to park an AA unit on my occupied airfields to cut down on the number of airfield strikes from a human player and to make Elmer's airfield strikes more expensive. But other than that my fighters are usually right up at the front lines. Being right up on the front means their covered arc section extends further into enemy territory and there are usually a lot of furballs that way. My planes attacking his or his attacking mine ( in the air ) and a lot of the time one side or the other are wiped out to a man. The Axis side usually wins a lot of furballs in the early war period. Later on when the Soviets gain air superiority the furballs begin to produce equal losses to each side and then in the late war period the Axis side is really hurting in the air and I've never played a game that got that far.

< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 4/16/2019 2:09:01 AM >


_____________________________

"When you're dead you don't know you're dead. The pain is felt by others. The same thing happens when you're stupid." Anon.

(in reply to cathar1244)
Post #: 3
RE: Rebasing Aircraft and Furballs - 4/17/2019 4:43:45 PM   
Hellen_slith


Posts: 326
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline
My air unit strategy, in general, goes like this:

1) Air unit should be based at an airfield w/ AAA, either SAM or SPAAG or other ground-based anti-aircraft fire (so as to mitigate any enemy airfield attacks on their location);

2) Air unit should be based as close to action as possible, following rule 1;

3) Limiting air unit movement (this is a tough one) .... you can limit your air unit to a Zone of Operation ... e.g., "combat" or "air support" only for a certain zone of control, to keep it from flying off into fur ball territory; j(I use this only sometimes, to limit e.g. Dutch or Belgium to operations only w/in their own air space ... this will help prevent fur ball into enemy territory)

4) Pay attention to the more detailed air unit reports ... e.g. clearly air unit air defense support units (w/ high anti-air defense numbers) should be only on air superiority ... other air units have higher anti-personnel and anti-armor values than their air defense values ... so for those air units, you want to use for combat support, interdiction, or airfield attacks.)

Example: I have found that most Soviet air units w/ "F" in their name (e.g., Fishbed, Fishpot, Fireball) etc. are clearly to be used only as air superiority units .... while "Su" units are for more combat / interdiction / airfield attack roles) ... there are little hints like that scattered throughout the game ... for US, Starfighters are of course for air superiority, while A-10 are combat roles ....)

I hope this helps!! This is my strategy that I use and it seems to work fairly well for me.

Your mileage may vary!
D

< Message edited by Hellen_slith -- 4/17/2019 4:56:17 PM >

(in reply to StuccoFresco)
Post #: 4
RE: Rebasing Aircraft and Furballs - 4/17/2019 4:49:49 PM   
Lobster


Posts: 2642
Joined: 8/8/2013
From: Third rock from the Sun.
Status: offline
8.2.6. Air Unit Combat Support and
Air Superiority Reactions
(Advanced Rules)
In order to provide combat support or intercept
enemy Air units, air units must pass both a
Quality Check (see 9.1.10) and a Range Check.
The chance of passing a Range Check decreases
with range to target as a proportion of the unit’s
Combat Range.

_____________________________

http://www.operationbarbarossa.net/

"Getting back to reality...I'll only go as a tourist!"

(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 5
RE: Rebasing Aircraft and Furballs - 4/17/2019 4:57:51 PM   
Hellen_slith


Posts: 326
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline
Indeed, and a close look at the "DBR" (not sure what it is called, where you can show range on the map) has a little hint where "range" is not so good ..... not explained in manual, but I *think* that what that little range finder means ....)

(in reply to Lobster)
Post #: 6
RE: Rebasing Aircraft and Furballs - 4/17/2019 5:31:12 PM   
Zovs


Posts: 2899
Joined: 2/23/2009
From: United States
Status: offline
I have posted this elsewhere but this is what we uncovered for the Air/AA/Naval Range rings (the ground ones are in the manual but not these):

Okay, I think I got it figured out with the help of both Larry and BigDuke and the actual settings. So this is the deal for range band colors:

This is the in game defaults for range bands and what they mean:



For this particular scenario for this Air Unit, this is what the colors mean:



_____________________________


War in the East/War in the East II - Alpha Test Teams
DG CWIE2 tester/SPWW2 and SPMBT playtester/scenario creator

(in reply to Hellen_slith)
Post #: 7
RE: Rebasing Aircraft and Furballs - 4/17/2019 6:19:23 PM   
Hellen_slith


Posts: 326
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline
Thank you, that is very helpful!!! So, what I thought was a "range finder" was actually AA cover, at least in my example. Thanks again!! D

(in reply to Zovs)
Post #: 8
RE: Rebasing Aircraft and Furballs - 4/18/2019 7:00:52 AM   
StuccoFresco

 

Posts: 205
Joined: 9/17/2004
From: Italy
Status: offline
Good.

But what exactly is (in game) a furball? Is it a special air battle that occurs when there are a lot of air units on missions in a relatively small area?

(in reply to Hellen_slith)
Post #: 9
RE: Rebasing Aircraft and Furballs - 4/18/2019 8:54:04 AM   
cathar1244

 

Posts: 471
Joined: 9/5/2009
Status: offline
From what I've seen in lab scenarios, "furball" seems to be the term used (in the game) for any aerial combat.

Cheers

quote:

ORIGINAL: StuccoFresco

Good.

But what exactly is (in game) a furball? Is it a special air battle that occurs when there are a lot of air units on missions in a relatively small area?


(in reply to StuccoFresco)
Post #: 10
RE: Rebasing Aircraft and Furballs - 4/18/2019 12:10:01 PM   
Lobster


Posts: 2642
Joined: 8/8/2013
From: Third rock from the Sun.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: StuccoFresco

Good.

But what exactly is (in game) a furball? Is it a special air battle that occurs when there are a lot of air units on missions in a relatively small area?


Furball: A dogfight, or dog fight between fighter aircraft, conducted at close range...By the end of January, 1991, the term "furball" became a popular word to describe the hectic situation of many dogfights, occurring at the same time...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXzolQcUKNw

< Message edited by Lobster -- 4/18/2019 12:24:37 PM >


_____________________________

http://www.operationbarbarossa.net/

"Getting back to reality...I'll only go as a tourist!"

(in reply to StuccoFresco)
Post #: 11
RE: Rebasing Aircraft and Furballs - 4/22/2019 1:12:31 PM   
mussey


Posts: 650
Joined: 12/2/2006
From: Cleve-Land
Status: offline
quote:

Example: I have found that most Soviet air units w/ "F" in their name (e.g., Fishbed, Fishpot, Fireball) etc. are clearly to be used only as air superiority units .... while "Su" units are for more combat / interdiction / airfield attack roles)


This partially correct since some of these have 'fighter' and 'fighter-bomber' versions. My own game level experience is still at 'Newbie', so I still have much to learn. Not to put more pressure on Cathar, but he is in the process of creating a more redefined air euip file on many of the modern aircraft. These may include several versions of each airframe. Should be very interesting to see what his workshop rolls out...

_____________________________

Col. Mussbu

The long arm of the law - "The King of Battle"


(in reply to Hellen_slith)
Post #: 12
RE: Rebasing Aircraft and Furballs - 4/22/2019 1:58:27 PM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 8458
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: online
quote:

Example: I have found that most Soviet air units w/ "F" in their name (e.g., Fishbed, Fishpot, Fireball) etc. are clearly to be used only as air superiority units

There is a reason for that, lol:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_reporting_name

(in reply to mussey)
Post #: 13
RE: Rebasing Aircraft and Furballs - 4/22/2019 2:07:45 PM   
mirrorshades

 

Posts: 31
Joined: 3/16/2019
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: mussey

quote:

Example: I have found that most Soviet air units w/ "F" in their name (e.g., Fishbed, Fishpot, Fireball) etc. are clearly to be used only as air superiority units .... while "Su" units are for more combat / interdiction / airfield attack roles)


This partially correct since some of these have 'fighter' and 'fighter-bomber' versions. My own game level experience is still at 'Newbie', so I still have much to learn.


I can't comment on the game/scenario specifically, but this is a NATO standard way of referring to Soviet/enemy equipment. Check out "NATO reporting name" on Wikipedia (apparently I'm such a forum n00b that I can't post links yet).

(in reply to mussey)
Post #: 14
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> The Operational Art of War IV >> The War Room >> Rebasing Aircraft and Furballs Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.129