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Multiplayer Balance (PBEM++) - 3/5/2019 2:48:35 PM   
Hubert Cater

 

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As we continually work to improve the game and address any outstanding concerns for the next update, it would be great if those that have played a number of Multiplayer games, preferably as both the Axis and Allied sides, could answer the following poll question for us, thanks!

Based on your experience, how would you define the current game balance?

Please feel free to add any comments as well.

< Message edited by Hubert Cater -- 3/9/2019 8:51:42 PM >
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RE: Multiplayer Balance (PBEM++) - 3/5/2019 3:04:26 PM   
ringoblood


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I put balanced based on historical factors as i have played with my family.

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RE: Multiplayer Balance (PBEM++) - 3/5/2019 3:20:46 PM   
Searry

 

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I missvoted. Meant to click axis.

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RE: Multiplayer Balance (PBEM++) - 3/5/2019 3:29:05 PM   
Hubert Cater

 

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I fixed it for you Searry.

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RE: Multiplayer Balance (PBEM++) - 3/5/2019 3:46:11 PM   
ivanov


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Thank you Hubert. Your support of the series and receptiveness to the issues raised by the fans are outstanding.

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RE: Multiplayer Balance (PBEM++) - 3/5/2019 6:29:32 PM   
Xsillione

 

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Not played MPs, so won't vote, but from SP games, if anything, the Allies has a slight edge. Or to be even more precise: The allies has a clean and great edge in economy that will only increase over time, but the Axis has a clean edge at the start in units and direct combat power, so the game is balanced and quite realistic in most cases (the allied naval power is a bit (much) reduced for gameplay reasons.) The End will mostly came from the success of the Axis to convert his military power to economic one, and the Allies success in preventing the same.

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RE: Multiplayer Balance (PBEM++) - 3/5/2019 8:01:41 PM   
ringoblood


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Xsillione

Not played MPs, so won't vote, but from SP games, if anything, the Allies has a slight edge. Or to be even more precise: The allies has a clean and great edge in economy that will only increase over time, but the Axis has a clean edge at the start in units and direct combat power, so the game is balanced and quite realistic in most cases (the allied naval power is a bit (much) reduced for gameplay reasons.) The End will mostly came from the success of the Axis to convert his military power to economic one, and the Allies success in preventing the same.

Which is the historical accurate.

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RE: Multiplayer Balance (PBEM++) - 3/5/2019 8:25:27 PM   
sveint


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Can I add that I think the Soviet economy is too weak? Historically the Soviets did not have as much trouble mobilising units. Perhaps the Soviets should have more income? Or start with more units (understrength corps)?

(I voted Balanced, but I think the game slightly favours the Axis).

< Message edited by sveint -- 3/5/2019 8:26:04 PM >

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RE: Multiplayer Balance (PBEM++) - 3/5/2019 10:08:54 PM   
Christolos


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Still too early for me to say...but I'm leaning towards balanced. How long will the poll be up for?

C

< Message edited by Christolos -- 3/6/2019 1:48:50 AM >


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RE: Multiplayer Balance (PBEM++) - 3/5/2019 11:12:27 PM   
gamer78

 

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I've voted 'favors the Axis' mainly for Russia. For tech: level 2 inf&tank, level 1 inf&armour and air warfare, level 2 production&industry in 1942 April. Still didn't lost Leningrad and Moscow but Germans have more numbers and opponent was late in Barbarossa. Only have 2 HQ I've to buy another one which was expensive.

I think China balance is quite good. Played total 4 times pbem -Axis and Allies- in strategic assault on Democracy and this is my 2nd game in World at War. I'm not beginner but not much experienced.

< Message edited by gamer78 -- 3/5/2019 11:13:16 PM >

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RE: Multiplayer Balance (PBEM++) - 3/6/2019 2:14:20 AM   
ElvisJJonesRambo


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Not sure yet. Holding back my vote. I've gotten my butt kick by an experienced player, but then again, I've also have not been bringing my A-game because there are lot of rookies out there. Played several people that don't have a clue, if that's offensive comment not made for 2019, so be it. If the shoe fits, wear fit.

What's really odd against human opponents, I've seen players that can roll through Europe, but don't have any idea where Wake Island or Singapore is in the Pacific. Hard to figure out their skill level. I could tell this Euro dude could punch with Panzers, but in the Ocean, he couldn't swim 1-length of a pool, kicked his ass.

I know there's a "gamey cookie-cutter" Axis strategy that's really, really tough to stop. I refuse to share it right now. Why? Because everyone is quitting games in 1942. Seriously, has anyone gone the distance or just throwing in the towel?

Back to me, always about me. When I sense a weak player, I tend to try new things out. I'm an Entertainer. Buying Rockets, Bombers, Artillery. I like to have fun. Just gave this dude a Pearl Harbor in New York City with the Kreigsmarine. Having a ball. This opponent just cracked my Subs level #3. Fun stuff. So I really have no idea the balance because I'm just jerking around, being a D-Bag.

Now, I will say this. I do agree with the comments about Russia must have Infantry level +2, because without it, you are hosed. Complete punching bag. Only thing can save you against cookie-cutter Axis is weather. But hasn't it always been that way?

We need to get clear the victory conditions. I don't even know what they are. No one talks about the late game or "comebacks". Seriously Allied players, have you tried to make a "real move" or are you pouring thousands of MMPs into East Africa. I've got a really interesting game going where I will lose London due to SeaLion, but its been a bloodbath!

Out of all the people, it's amazing I'm not complaining. Judge Not. I really don't know, yet. Want to play Light Heavyweight in my UFC class without gamey moves.

How Great Thou Art,
-EJR



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RE: Multiplayer Balance (PBEM++) - 3/6/2019 5:18:30 AM   
Tidavis


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Balanced.

I have problems playing either side.




< Message edited by Tidavis -- 3/6/2019 5:21:18 AM >


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RE: Multiplayer Balance (PBEM++) - 3/6/2019 10:54:47 AM   
ElvisJJonesRambo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tidavis

Balanced.

I have problems playing either side.




quote:

I have problems playing either side.


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RE: Multiplayer Balance (PBEM++) - 3/7/2019 5:13:33 PM   
amandkm

 

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I said balanced, based on my own results to date with it. That said, I find that in AI, the game, as played, seems to favor Axis, slightly, but that could be due to any number of factors. However, the relative results of the AI v the PBEM lead me to thing that PBEM is slightly more pro-Allied than the AI.

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RE: Multiplayer Balance (PBEM++) - 3/9/2019 8:53:25 PM   
Hubert Cater

 

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Thanks everyone for their feedback and it looks like most feel that it is balanced with some just under that feeling it has an Axis bias, and a handful that it has an Allied bias. This has given us some ideas on how to approach the next update so that it addresses the game for those that feel it has a slight Axis bias, while maintaining it for those that feel it is already balanced.

Final Results:
15 votes Balanced
8 votes favors Axis
2 votes favors Allies



< Message edited by Hubert Cater -- 3/9/2019 8:54:48 PM >


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RE: Multiplayer Balance (PBEM++) - 3/10/2019 7:12:22 PM   
MrLongleg

 

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I am gonna change my verdict from favors Axis to Balanced, after the changes that came with the last patch, e.g. all German units need to be upgraded to level 1...

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Life is too short to drink bad wine ;-)

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RE: Multiplayer Balance (PBEM++) - 3/11/2019 3:55:08 AM   
ElvisJJonesRambo


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Hold on a minute, don't change it, just yet. Yeah, there's some cookie cutter, some gamey moves. Yes, the Chinese get blistered, so what. That doesn't win games. Yes, the Russians are behind, but come on, only if Axis goes complete cookie cutter. The Allied folks need to get better at the early years. Buy some Anti-Sub, don't be stupid with your Navy. Yes, the Russians get smacked, but that's no excuse for having American Carriers 3-miles below Sea Level.

@Herbert --- Here's what I would do. Put in a bid system into the first part of the game! Russia will get the MMPs off the bid, there's your balance. Don't ruin the rest of the game.

Open window pops up. Script says, "Bid is 300 MMPs", agree buy players. The software just gives Russia the extra.

Problem solved. Don't start messing with the Gamey stuff. Don't mess with the game at all. It's excellent! For the players saying "Turkey needs this", "Spain would have do this", "Pearl Harbor isn't realistic".

It's pretty dang good now, just put in player options for Russian MMP bid.

Elvis at the International Hotel 1969,
-EJR



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March 25, 1961, Elvis Presley performed in Hawaii his USS Arizona Memorial Benefit Concert. Elvis staged concert was to raise money for a memorial at Pearl Harbor dedicated to all who died in the December 7, 1941 attack.



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RE: Multiplayer Balance (PBEM++) - 3/11/2019 5:29:12 AM   
Hubert Cater

 

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Not to worry, there won't be any major changes but we are implementing some fixes and adjustments, for example Fortifications will make more sense going forward if they are on a terrain such as a mountain where there will be a slight improvement in the defensive bonus, rather than decreasing the defensive bonus as it currently works in game.

The results of this in game will change some theaters just slightly, i.e. taking China as the Japanese will only be slightly more challenging as Fortifications in some mountain choke points will be a little stronger, and key battles in and around let's say a fortified Moscow, Stalingrad and Leningrad will be a bit more of a challenge for the Axis side to break through, again just slightly, but the rest of the game should/will play the same.

Essentially this should keep the balance as is, but helps the Allies at a few critical points but not overwhelmingly, and not to the effect where it stops an efficient Axis player right in their tracks either.

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RE: Multiplayer Balance (PBEM++) - 3/11/2019 10:56:01 PM   
gamer78

 

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I disagree. If Turkey and Spain would be easily captured then the diplomacy for these countries should be removed. I like the most about WW1 Breakthrough was diplomacy was functional ex: Balkan diplomacy. WW2 era could be different.

Balance is up to forts in Leningrad and Moscow I see. But I still didn't understand panzers with 4-5 supply very efficient against 12 supply Russian entrenched units. Maybe experienced players will tell.

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RE: Multiplayer Balance (PBEM++) - 3/14/2019 5:25:02 PM   
sveint


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My opinion has now changed. German units outnumber Soviet units in every game, and in every PBEM game I have going Germany is crushing the Soviets. Doesn't matter if I play the Allies or the Axis.

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RE: Multiplayer Balance (PBEM++) - 3/14/2019 5:36:32 PM   
ElvisJJonesRambo


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I'm looking to start new game. I'll take you on with Allies. Host game, send password in message. Can do some turns tonight. I'm on Yankee time.

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RE: Multiplayer Balance (PBEM++) - 3/14/2019 5:57:34 PM   
sveint


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Sorry full up at the moment, I need to finish some games first. And I am far from the best player, I got absolutely crushed in my first PBEM game as the Axis.

I'll happily do a game once I free up some time though, will PM you then.

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RE: Multiplayer Balance (PBEM++) - 3/14/2019 8:25:27 PM   
BillRunacre

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sveint

My opinion has now changed. German units outnumber Soviet units in every game, and in every PBEM game I have going Germany is crushing the Soviets. Doesn't matter if I play the Allies or the Axis.


Can I just ask (and this isn't necessarily just for your games, these questions apply to everyone who may think the Axis have the edge) but is the UK sending as much as possible via convoy to the USSR?

This can be amended in the Convoy screen and could make a difference if they are not.

Additionally, is the US sending supplies to the USSR via the Pacific, and are the Japanese interdicting them or not?

Thanks

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RE: Multiplayer Balance (PBEM++) - 3/14/2019 8:46:56 PM   
taffjones

 

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Hi Bill/Hubert
In my opinion the PBEM game balance is fine.
I think it is the skill level of your opponent that is the main deciding factor, I have 3 games on the go at the moment in 2 of them we are players of equal skill.
In the other my opponent is a much better player than me and he is handing me my head on a plate. The plus side is I am learning a lot from seeing what he does (just wish I knew what he is doing tech wise and what is happening under the fog of war).
I would wait before making any changes until more players have played more games to give better feedback.
Thanks for another great game.

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RE: Multiplayer Balance (PBEM++) - 3/14/2019 8:58:33 PM   
taffjones

 

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I have just seen "SlickandJake's" proposal for a ELO ranking system in the multiplayer section, this could help decide the issue.
I remember a lot of people in the WiE forum saying the game favoured the "Axis". But the ranking system set up showed the "Allied" side won most games and that included "The Sugar war machine" chewing up players and bumping up the "Axis" win ratio.

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RE: Multiplayer Balance (PBEM++) - 3/14/2019 11:44:16 PM   
sveint


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This is of course just anecdotal evidence but I sent max convoy and even did a '41 invasion of France as the UK in my most recent game. Soviets still struggling.

I think balance is mostly fine, it is just strange that there are literally more German than Soviet units on the east front. All other theaters seem fine too.

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RE: Multiplayer Balance (PBEM++) - 3/17/2019 8:41:05 PM   
James Taylor

 

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A little late to the party, but as a veteran of 2002 SC days, this is the same old dilemma every iteration of the game has faced.

As simply as I can put it, this comes down to understanding and executing the game mechanics. Contrary to the initial feelings, this is not an easy game to play.

Knowing how to build Axis experience and proper allocation of forces as different threats unveil themselves is the key to success from their perspective.

The Allies have to bide their time and a lot of Allied players become anxious and try to press instead of accumulating the necessary force needed to eclipse the overwhelming Axis experience factor.


For the most part that experience factor is the thing that I believe contributes to this perceived unbalance. I wish there was a way for the Allies to train there force to minimal levels of experience, say one medal or just short of, might help their staying power. I would also like to see the ability to reinforce one strength point a turn without losing that built up(oh so precious) experience level as it would tend to take more forces off the front line which should eventually help the Allies.


So, is it balanced? If not, its close, very close for players of similar experience levels. Still too early to conclude, IMO.

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RE: Multiplayer Balance (PBEM++) - 3/18/2019 1:40:44 PM   
gamer78

 

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According to my land unit number graph in pbem playing Allies: Apr 1943
Ger: 100-110 USSR:53 Uk:46 USA: 36

Leningrad, Moscow, Smolensk, Stalingrad, Baku, Sevastopol aren't captured by Axis for now.

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RE: Multiplayer Balance (PBEM++) - 3/18/2019 3:30:53 PM   
Elessar2


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Hmm. Training Mode. Sit in the home country and gain .25 experience per turn, up to a maximum of .5 or even 1? As an optional rule I can see no harm.

Or asymmetrical:

Turn Exp. Gain
------------------
1 .4
2 .3
3 .2
4 .1

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