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Japanese ASW weapons of WW2 - 2/3/2019 1:10:56 PM   
m10bob


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Just responding to one of our friends with questions concerning this subject.

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WAMJAP_ASW.php

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RE: Japanese ASW weapons of WW2 - 2/3/2019 1:18:37 PM   
btd64


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Once again, good stuff Bob....GP

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RE: Japanese ASW weapons of WW2 - 2/3/2019 3:31:51 PM   
m10bob


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IMHO...this quote from the article says so much.

"In the early part of the Pacific War first-line destroyers carried almost no DCs at all while "Kaibokan" escorts carried 12 to 18. By the end of the war, most destroyers carried 30 DCs and escort vessels (kaibokan) carried about 120 including those stored below deck. Destroyers usually had only stern racks but escort vessels had six or eight depth charge throwers (DCT) and some Y guns."

The author gives many sources for his research.

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RE: Japanese ASW weapons of WW2 - 2/3/2019 4:09:21 PM   
btd64


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quote:

ORIGINAL: m10bob

IMHO...this quote from the article says so much.

"In the early part of the Pacific War first-line destroyers carried almost no DCs at all while "Kaibokan" escorts carried 12 to 18. By the end of the war, most destroyers carried 30 DCs and escort vessels (kaibokan) carried about 120 including those stored below deck. Destroyers usually had only stern racks but escort vessels had six or eight depth charge throwers (DCT) and some Y guns."

The author gives many sources for his research.


You're right. That does say a lot....GP

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RE: Japanese ASW weapons of WW2 - 2/3/2019 6:57:52 PM   
rustysi


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OK, but the article says Japan sunk 26 subs. U.S. losses during WWII were 52. Where'd the rest come from?

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RE: Japanese ASW weapons of WW2 - 2/3/2019 7:25:17 PM   
spence

 

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quote:

OK, but the article says Japan sunk 26 subs. U.S. losses during WWII were 52. Where'd the rest come from?


I thought that there were more than just 26 but of the 52 there were several that ran aground and were lost as well as a couple of friendly fire incidents and collisions. The USS Sealion got bombed and sunk at the beginning of the war, one got sunk by shore batteries when it tried to do a bombardment and several hit mines. To attribute those to ASW forces is stretching it a little (excepting maybe the mine sinkings).

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RE: Japanese ASW weapons of WW2 - 2/3/2019 7:50:40 PM   
rustysi


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quote:

To attribute those to ASW forces is stretching it a little


Agreed, but I was just wondering where they came from. I didn't know the name, but was aware of the Sealion, it was in Manila IIRC.

Thank for the input.

Edit: Don't forget the one sunk in the Taiwan Straights by its own torp. The name escapes me at the moment.

< Message edited by rustysi -- 2/3/2019 7:52:26 PM >


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RE: Japanese ASW weapons of WW2 - 2/3/2019 9:11:39 PM   
m10bob


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U.S. sub losses

https://www.history.navy.mil/research/library/online-reading-room/title-list-alphabetically/u/united-states-submarine-losses.html


For the next question...here are the Japanese losses...

https://www.history.navy.mil/research/library/online-reading-room/title-list-alphabetically/u/united-states-submarine-losses/japanese-submarine-casualties-in-world-war-two-i-and-ro-boats.html

< Message edited by m10bob -- 2/3/2019 9:15:15 PM >


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RE: Japanese ASW weapons of WW2 - 2/4/2019 6:59:22 AM   
adarbrauner

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

To attribute those to ASW forces is stretching it a little


Agreed, but I was just wondering where they came from. I didn't know the name, but was aware of the Sealion, it was in Manila IIRC.

Thank for the input.

Edit: Don't forget the one sunk in the Taiwan Straights by its own torp. The name escapes me at the moment.

Tang? Wahoo? (Btw the most successful US sub. AND that specific mission was it's most successful)

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RE: Japanese ASW weapons of WW2 - 2/4/2019 7:02:04 AM   
adarbrauner

 

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Tang! Internet verified , kudos to meeee, yeeehooo!

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RE: Japanese ASW weapons of WW2 - 2/4/2019 7:58:42 AM   
Fishbed


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Here's a quick summary of the way each sub was lost (although it is done by 1946 knowledge of the facts).From US Submarine Losses, Naval and Military Press, from materials prepared by COMSUBPAC.

Click to enlarge.




< Message edited by Alain-James -- 2/4/2019 8:01:32 AM >


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RE: Japanese ASW weapons of WW2 - 2/4/2019 10:09:01 AM   
xj900uk

 

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Don't forget they IJN also developed and operated the only purpose-built ASW aircraft, the Q1W1-K Tokai Ren, but in insufficient numbers to make any difference, and also it was poorly armed and only used in Home Waters

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1Rwx4KbTlE

There is also an excellent book on the subject of Japanese ASW warfare during WWII available on Amazon

https://www.amazon.com/Japanese-Anti-Submarine-Aircraft-Pacific-War/dp/8365281392

Oddly enough, the modern UK police surveillance aircraft, 'The Flying Eye', which is used mainly to spot escaping cars, is based upon the Q1W1 design...


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RE: Japanese ASW weapons of WW2 - 2/4/2019 2:13:57 PM   
m10bob


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When first observed..this plane was wrongfully thought to be a copy of the German Dornier 17 series, (which it is not.)

The plane is called the LORNA by the allies and is in RHS mod, perhaps also in stock AE?

BTW...Records indicate the Japanese sunk as many subs with aircraft as they did with their surface ships.

Their surface ships were just "piss weak" against subs.

Even so, (as mentioned), Wahoo...piloted by Dudley "Mush" Morton, was sunk by a Japnese MSW.

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RE: Japanese ASW weapons of WW2 - 2/4/2019 2:45:28 PM   
fcooke

 

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Tang was a circular run, I think two others were suspected of sharing the same fate. I think Seawolf was taken out by US forces (friendly fire), and the only boat I recall going down in the Atlantic was the R boat. The rest were operational losses, groundings, and unkown (usually assessed as minings). I think only one boat was lost to an IJN sub, while US subs ate IJN boats for lunch. While the Tang, Harder and Wahoo had great (but short) careers, the most most successful boat (in terms of ships sunk), was was one of the T boats (cannot recall the name at the moment).

Tang is my favorite WW2 boat. If you have not read it yet I suggest 'Clear the Bridge', written by her skipper, Dick O'Kane. Her last patrol was spectacular.

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RE: Japanese ASW weapons of WW2 - 2/4/2019 3:31:12 PM   
pontiouspilot


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In Canada Smithsonian channel has series called "Hell Below" dealing with WW2 sub warfare. Their description of Wahoo's loss was her own torpedo that circled back. The series seems well done.

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RE: Japanese ASW weapons of WW2 - 2/4/2019 8:55:33 PM   
adarbrauner

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: m10bob

When first observed..this plane was wrongfully thought to be a copy of the German Dornier 17 series, (which it is not.)

The plane is called the LORNA by the allies and is in RHS mod, perhaps also in stock ?


It is in stock, it is.

But it was suspected being derived or inspired by the Ju 88 to which it resembles in its external layout. BTW El CID believes was derived by the Ju 88, and bringd some arguments/references in support.

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RE: Japanese ASW weapons of WW2 - 2/5/2019 2:51:19 AM   
spence

 

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Unlike the Japanese USN surface ships sank many more IJN/IJA submarines than aircraft did. I imagine that this was principally because there were few areas where IJN/IJA submarines were constricted by land masses in the manner of German/Italian submarines were in the Atlantic/Mediterranean (USN submarines of necessity did tend to operate in restricted waters).

How did the types of SONAR used by the USN and IJN compare? Was there a significant qualitative difference?

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RE: Japanese ASW weapons of WW2 - 2/5/2019 10:33:07 AM   
xj900uk

 

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The RAF's greatest weapon against the U-Boat was the old Stringbag, it sunk more german subs than any other means.
It even claimed to have sunk two IJN subs as well, although wasn't used much in the Far East and mainly for training in India/Ceylon.

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RE: Japanese ASW weapons of WW2 - 2/5/2019 12:46:03 PM   
adarbrauner

 

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Japanese sonars derived from German pre war technology, and from the Britush technology acquired, studied and copied from Singapore conquest. You can find much material and references in the official US Post War Survey (easily accessible on the net, and reproduced here in the forum a number of times).

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RE: Japanese ASW weapons of WW2 - 2/5/2019 7:32:05 PM   
crsutton


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

OK, but the article says Japan sunk 26 subs. U.S. losses during WWII were 52. Where'd the rest come from?


"causes unknown" on one of the most frequent comments listing for US subs sunk during the war.

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RE: Japanese ASW weapons of WW2 - 2/6/2019 9:39:01 AM   
xj900uk

 

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Some simply got lost, foundered, or went down and never came back up. In f a few cases nobody to this day knows what became of them, or exactly where they were lost.

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RE: Japanese ASW weapons of WW2 - 2/6/2019 8:01:38 PM   
spence

 

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The identity of both enemy and Allied subs lost continues to be revised based on new information but there is in the vast majority of cases a correlation between the records of the opposing side's attacks and the time and approximate area where a submarine was last heard from by its own side.

Submarines tend to operate far from friendly forces and are often sunk when already underwater by depth charge/hedgehog/homing torpedo but enemy reports often contain reports of recovered debris from the submarine. The recovery of this debris tends to confirm the fact that an enemy ship was sunk however little if any of this flotsam identifies the sunken sub by name or number. It is usually the combination of records from both sides after the war that settles the exact fate of a particular sub.

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RE: Japanese ASW weapons of WW2 - 2/6/2019 8:15:43 PM   
geofflambert


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IIRC there was a US sub sunk by friendlies immediately prior to the Leyte Gulf battle.

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RE: Japanese ASW weapons of WW2 - 2/8/2019 11:54:25 AM   
xj900uk

 

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Whilst playing as the allied player, my enthusiastic B17 planes have attacked and 'sunk' several subs in the Dutch East Indies waters, only for them to turn out to be Dutch...

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RE: Japanese ASW weapons of WW2 - 2/8/2019 12:53:43 PM   
GetAssista

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: xj900uk
Whilst playing as the allied player, my enthusiastic B17 planes have attacked and 'sunk' several subs in the Dutch East Indies waters, only for them to turn out to be Dutch...

I have never seen a friendly fire incident of any nature in this game. Apart from occasional mines

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RE: Japanese ASW weapons of WW2 - 2/11/2019 8:54:07 PM   
xj900uk

 

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It does happen but it's supposed to be very rare. I've also had Luftwaffe planes shoot themselves down in the Eagle Day game (again only one I recall)
I have had a few carrier landing accidents wounding a pilot and causing damage to a carrier - although the narrative doesn't specifically say it, it's quite easy to work out afterwards when your pilot is in hospital for 3 months and your carrier has 'gained' 6 damage overnight...

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RE: Japanese ASW weapons of WW2 - 3/2/2019 6:39:11 PM   
RangerJoe


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My Uncle is still on patrol on one of those subs.

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