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[RESOLVED] Scenario build saves intermittently

 
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[RESOLVED] Scenario build saves intermittently - 1/14/2019 3:51:57 PM   
DMAN

 

Posts: 47
Joined: 1/11/2019
Status: offline 		Hi all,

Can anyone tell me how to save the scenario I'm trying to build?

I have tried:

- Cntl + s

- "Save as", navigate to the "Standalone Scenarios" folder and over-write the files in both Steam and non-Steam games

- Making ONE change in the build, then saving per above.

I've searched the forum here and have found only one thread that is similar. I followed what was mentioned there, but to no avail.

I'm building a very large scenario, complex set in a hypothetical political climate.
As a result, I have probably hundreds of changes to platforms (these are no problem to do).
My platform changes are saving when the games saves, which is good. They do not revert to the vanilla database entry so I don't think it's a database issue.

It's just this save game issue I can't solve. It's 2 steps forward, one step back, and extremely annoying.

Sometimes it saves, sometimes not. I "save", then exit the game, refresh, and start it back up again (I even tried rebooting once as I thought it might be a cache/memory issue).
It really is hit or miss if my changes are there, hence the intermittent nature of the fault.

Thanks in advance!


< Message edited by Dimitris -- 2/3/2019 4:40:17 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: Scenario build saves intermittently - 1/14/2019 4:13:24 PM   
Whicker

 

Posts: 378
Joined: 6/20/2018
Status: offline 		maybe sometimes they are .save's and other times they are .scen's? those are the 2 file types you can save as.

I have not had any problems though, and once I save as one type it seems to stick with that.

(in reply to DMAN)
Post #: 2
RE: Scenario build saves intermittently - 1/15/2019 5:37:51 AM   
DMAN

 

Posts: 47
Joined: 1/11/2019
Status: offline 		Thanks, Whicker.

No mate, I'm over-writing the .scen file each time. Also, there are no saves that I can find.

There has to be a reason why I'm experiencing this issue (and others are not), and I believe the intermittent nature of it is a clue.

Every other program or application, including other games, does not have save issues. Only this.

Any other thoughts, anyone?


(in reply to Whicker)
Post #: 3
RE: Scenario build saves intermittently - 1/15/2019 8:06:38 AM   
michaelm75au


Posts: 12198
Joined: 5/5/2001
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline 		Have you tried checking the exception.log in the <Command>\Logs folder?
Often that gives more details if an error is happening. Bing a large scenario, it is possible it is running into a compression/save memory issue.

_____________________________

Michael

(in reply to DMAN)
Post #: 4
RE: Scenario build saves intermittently - 1/15/2019 8:53:56 AM   
DMAN

 

Posts: 47
Joined: 1/11/2019
Status: offline 		Hi michaelm,

I did look just now on your advice, yet nothing was found regarding that.

However, when I re-started the scenario after the latest save, I did receive a memory-related error message. This is the first time for that.
I cancelled that message and tried to open the scenario again, and all was fine. The latest changes were there.

I'm working on the scenario now, and I am yet to have a save issue. I make a few changes, Cntl-s, then leave the game. Reload, repeat.

Still, I am expecting there to be an issue sometime tonight.

BTW, how do you put the flag under your name?

(in reply to michaelm75au)
Post #: 5
RE: Scenario build saves intermittently - 1/15/2019 9:24:52 AM   
DMAN

 

Posts: 47
Joined: 1/11/2019
Status: offline 		There we go!

I just had the first non-save event.
I did not change my process from earlier today where I built and saved maybe 8 times with no issues.
There's nothing in the log folder.

Where to next? Any suggestions?

(in reply to DMAN)
Post #: 6
RE: Scenario build saves intermittently - 1/15/2019 9:45:20 AM   
DMAN

 

Posts: 47
Joined: 1/11/2019
Status: offline 		Two times in a row now...

(in reply to DMAN)
Post #: 7
RE: Scenario build saves intermittently - 1/15/2019 10:07:33 AM   
DMAN

 

Posts: 47
Joined: 1/11/2019
Status: offline 		Four times in a row...

(in reply to DMAN)
Post #: 8
RE: Scenario build saves intermittently - 1/15/2019 3:34:52 PM   
DMAN

 

Posts: 47
Joined: 1/11/2019
Status: offline 		It still goes on.
Lost saves. Then it saves.

The score tonight is about:
Lost: 10
Saved: 13

Something like that...

(in reply to DMAN)
Post #: 9
RE: Scenario build saves intermittently - 1/15/2019 4:33:23 PM   
Whicker

 

Posts: 378
Joined: 6/20/2018
Status: offline 		That sucks.

how big is big?
there is a way to show active unit count at the top - AU or something under game options.


(in reply to DMAN)
Post #: 10
RE: Scenario build saves intermittently - 1/15/2019 9:06:30 PM   
apache85

 

Posts: 1346
Joined: 12/18/2014
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline 		Post the save file here and I'll take a look.

_____________________________


(in reply to Whicker)
Post #: 11
RE: Scenario build saves intermittently - 1/16/2019 4:09:31 AM   
DMAN

 

Posts: 47
Joined: 1/11/2019
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Whicker

That sucks.

how big is big?
there is a way to show active unit count at the top - AU or something under game options.




Umm...on a scale of 1 to 10, maybe 11? 15?

Looking at the other .scen file sizes, this dwarfs them and is at 5,000+ kb...so far. No Soviet units or friendly air yet.

I figure such a powerful simulator should be flogged.
I plan to play it once I have an upgraded system. In saying that, testing of the added weapons, sensors, comms, etc is fine.
Memory is at around 60% and CPU under that when I test. So I don't experience any crashes.

It's just the save issue.

(in reply to Whicker)
Post #: 12
RE: Scenario build saves intermittently - 1/16/2019 4:14:24 AM   
DMAN

 

Posts: 47
Joined: 1/11/2019
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: apache85

Post the save file here and I'll take a look.


Thanks, mate. This is my first attempt at a Command scenario build.
I am an old Harpoon player and made scenarios and database edits for that platform (my use only).

There are many error messages when adding sensors, but they all work fine so I have simply ignored them (I've only seen sensor errors in the log).
It mentions that groups were added, but I've added only individual sensors so I don't know where that comes from.

This isn't anywhere near playable yet. Are you sure you want to look?

(in reply to apache85)
Post #: 13
RE: Scenario build saves intermittently - 1/16/2019 9:44:17 AM   
apache85

 

Posts: 1346
Joined: 12/18/2014
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline 		If you want it fixed we need to look.

_____________________________


(in reply to DMAN)
Post #: 14
RE: Scenario build saves intermittently - 1/16/2019 10:25:42 AM   
DMAN

 

Posts: 47
Joined: 1/11/2019
Status: offline 		Is there some other way to send it to you?
Max size is 2,000kb.

(in reply to apache85)
Post #: 15
RE: Scenario build saves intermittently - 1/16/2019 8:15:37 PM   
apache85

 

Posts: 1346
Joined: 12/18/2014
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline 		There's a few options:
Dropbox/Google Drive/Other hosting service and post the link here
Directly e-mail it to me via the address I'll PM you

_____________________________


(in reply to DMAN)
Post #: 16
RE: Scenario build saves intermittently - 1/17/2019 8:02:25 AM   
DMAN

 

Posts: 47
Joined: 1/11/2019
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: apache85

There's a few options:
Dropbox/Google Drive/Other hosting service and post the link here
Directly e-mail it to me via the address I'll PM you


Hi apache,

I sent you an email with the scenario files. The culprit wasn't an overheating hard drive.

(in reply to apache85)
Post #: 17
RE: Scenario build saves intermittently - 1/17/2019 9:28:40 AM   
apache85

 

Posts: 1346
Joined: 12/18/2014
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline 		Firstly, cool scenario. From your description I was expecting (dreading) something over 12,000AU and expected that to be the issue. In comparison the 6,000 AU scenario you're working on is well within the bounds of what is possible for most systems to run (although it's never going to be a speed demon)

I've saved it a few times at different points without issue; something I noticed in your first post is mention of 'both steam and non steam'; is it possible that you are saving in the wrong folder? Having two installs of CMANO has caused issues in the past if I remember correctly.

The next question is what exactly is happening when a save 'fails'? With a scenario of this size the save process will take a couple of seconds to complete, are you getting that 'pause' each time with the failed saves or is something else happening?

_____________________________


(in reply to DMAN)
Post #: 18
RE: Scenario build saves intermittently - 1/17/2019 9:56:57 AM   
DMAN

 

Posts: 47
Joined: 1/11/2019
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: apache85

Firstly, cool scenario. From your description I was expecting (dreading) something over 12,000AU and expected that to be the issue. In comparison the 6,000 AU scenario you're working on is well within the bounds of what is possible for most systems to run (although it's never going to be a speed demon)

I've saved it a few times at different points without issue; something I noticed in your first post is mention of 'both steam and non steam'; is it possible that you are saving in the wrong folder? Having two installs of CMANO has caused issues in the past if I remember correctly.

The next question is what exactly is happening when a save 'fails'? With a scenario of this size the save process will take a couple of seconds to complete, are you getting that 'pause' each time with the failed saves or is something else happening?


Hi apache,

Thanks!

It's still a work in progress, and it's really for a future new-build machine.

Yes, I'm saving in the non-Steam scenarios folder, and as a back-up, copying it into the Steam scenarios folder.
I do this back-up through file explorer and not the simulator.

I have that pause each time, fail or not.
What happens is I save it, then continue to build. At some point, the save fails. This is happening even after, say, 5-10 minutes of building then saving.
I'm conscious of the size of the scenario and my system memory limitations, which is why I'm only building for a short time, then saving, then exiting, and re-starting.

Should I delete the Steam version?

(in reply to apache85)
Post #: 19
RE: Scenario build saves intermittently - 1/17/2019 9:16:50 PM   
apache85

 

Posts: 1346
Joined: 12/18/2014
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline 		Hey DMAN I've escalated this, might be a little while before we hear back but it's being investigated

_____________________________


(in reply to DMAN)
Post #: 20
RE: Scenario build saves intermittently - 1/18/2019 4:40:36 AM   
DMAN

 

Posts: 47
Joined: 1/11/2019
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: apache85

Hey DMAN I've escalated this, might be a little while before we hear back but it's being investigated


Hi apache,

Thanks, mate.

That last file I emailed you was where it stopped saving 3 times in a row, so I thought it would be a good place to begin diagnosis.

Incidentally, I tried to import 2 or 3 airbases: fail. Single airbase import: fail.
This occurred multiple times for each approach until the save was successful.

I realised also that since I am not actually running the game as I'm building, simply saving the build shouldn't present the intermittent fault as at present.

After re-loading this afternoon, I cannot save anything at all. Base imports, aircraft, ships. Nothing. Even deleting the airbase imports doesn't work as they are there again on re-loading the game.

I now can't even save the build as a save file. I think I've broken the game...

< Message edited by DMAN -- 1/18/2019 7:07:02 AM >

(in reply to apache85)
Post #: 21
RE: Scenario build saves intermittently - 1/22/2019 12:15:59 PM   
DMAN

 

Posts: 47
Joined: 1/11/2019
Status: offline 		Hi all,

Any update on this?

I'm still experiencing save issues after:

- uninstalling the Steam version
- uninstalling the Matrix version
- re-installing the Matrix version and updating it

Installing to C drive had no effect on this issue, so the default address isn't the cause (I install all me games on another drive).

Also, I'm loath to import the included installations as this is where it totally locked up on me last time. However, this was not the cause of this issue.

It's getting tedious to save every few minutes, exit, restart (and even THIS is not 100% effective).

FYI, system specs are enough: quad-core i5 (2.8 GHz), 4GB RAM, Win 10.

(in reply to DMAN)
Post #: 22
RE: Scenario build saves intermittently - 1/25/2019 9:41:48 AM   
DMAN

 

Posts: 47
Joined: 1/11/2019
Status: offline 		I'm done.

This is interminable. I'm putting this game on ice until it's functional; perhaps that will be another 6 years...who knows...

Let me know if you ever get around to looking into this issue.

Out.

(in reply to DMAN)
Post #: 23
RE: Scenario build saves intermittently - 1/26/2019 4:08:33 PM   
Dimitris


Posts: 10352
Joined: 7/31/2005
Status: online 		Took a stab at this today. Using a system with 16GB of RAM.

When running with a test non-LAA exe (ie. able to use up to 2GB RAM in theory, in practice ~1.2GB), there are frequent out-of-memory errors. Sim execution itself also suffers a bit.

If running with a LAA-flagged exe (ie. using up to 4GB if available), there are zero OOM issues and sim speed is better too.

This makes me suspect that in your system, a significant portion of the 4GB RAM is taken up by the OS itself (no surprise) plus any other resident apps (AV etc.), leaving to Command a much smaller chunk of RAM to work with, and probably fragmented at that.

Can you try running this scenario at a friend's rig that has at least 8GB of RAM? If it runs & saves smoothly there, then it would probably confirm that this is a RAM-starvation issue.

Thanks.

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(in reply to DMAN)
Post #: 24
RE: Scenario build saves intermittently - 1/28/2019 10:46:43 AM   
DMAN

 

Posts: 47
Joined: 1/11/2019
Status: offline 		Hi Dimitris,

Thanks for having a look.

I've ordered another 16Gb of RAM bringing my total to 20Gb so I'll test when it arrives.

To be clear though, the save failures occur randomly: I could change a single loadout or callsign, and the save not stick, or I could do a few squadrons and it would.

After each save attempt, I exit the game, refresh and re-enter. I also tried re-booting to clear caches/memory.

Looking on task manager during the build, my RAM usage peaks at about 60%, meaning the remaining 40% is available but not being utilised.

I needed extra RAM anyway, so hopefully this fixes the issue.

< Message edited by DMAN -- 1/28/2019 12:11:35 PM >

(in reply to Dimitris)
Post #: 25
RE: Scenario build saves intermittently - 2/1/2019 6:10:03 AM   
DMAN

 

Posts: 47
Joined: 1/11/2019
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dimitris

Took a stab at this today. Using a system with 16GB of RAM.

When running with a test non-LAA exe (ie. able to use up to 2GB RAM in theory, in practice ~1.2GB), there are frequent out-of-memory errors. Sim execution itself also suffers a bit.

If running with a LAA-flagged exe (ie. using up to 4GB if available), there are zero OOM issues and sim speed is better too.

This makes me suspect that in your system, a significant portion of the 4GB RAM is taken up by the OS itself (no surprise) plus any other resident apps (AV etc.), leaving to Command a much smaller chunk of RAM to work with, and probably fragmented at that.

Can you try running this scenario at a friend's rig that has at least 8GB of RAM? If it runs & saves smoothly there, then it would probably confirm that this is a RAM-starvation issue.

Thanks.

quote:

LAA-flagged exe


Hi Dimitris,

How did you run this on a machine with 16Gb of RAM?

I see that Command only runs on 32-bit Windows, and not 64-bit, yet 32-bit can only use up to 4Gb.

I now have 20Gb and want to upgrade to 64-bit Windows to use it. Is there a way to run this under 64-bit?

Cheers!

(in reply to Dimitris)
Post #: 26
RE: Scenario build saves intermittently - 2/1/2019 6:14:01 AM   
Whicker

 

Posts: 378
Joined: 6/20/2018
Status: offline 		win 64 supports 32 bit programs no problem. I'm on 64b win 10 and have no issues with CMANO.

(in reply to DMAN)
Post #: 27
RE: Scenario build saves intermittently - 2/1/2019 6:22:46 AM   
DMAN

 

Posts: 47
Joined: 1/11/2019
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Whicker

win 64 supports 32 bit programs no problem. I'm on 64b win 10 and have no issues with CMANO.

Hi whicker,

That's great news! Thanks, mate.

(in reply to Whicker)
Post #: 28
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