Comments and Questions

[canuckgamer]

Playing solo with a couple of scenarios to get a feel for the game and so far I'm impressed. I consider this game to be of intermediate complexity since there are a lot of factors "under the hood" such adjustment of losses based on the quality of troops which as a long time board wargamer is appreciated.

I had an attack where one Italian armour unit with an attack factor of 3 conducted a medium intensity attack on two Commonwealth units totalling 16 defense factors. To me the odds would be 1-6 in a boardgame. However, the basic odds indicated was 1:4.2. There were four shifts for shock to final odds of 1.8:1 and the die roll was a 4 resulting in 10% damage to the Commonwealth strength and 25% damage to their readiness. Looking at the CRT table the very left column is 1:5 so I assume that any attack at worse than those odds starts with a basic odds of 1:5. Can you explain the two odds of 1:4.2 and 1.8:1? Oddly enough the sound effect for the resolution of this attack sounded like an air attack as well.

I'm also a little confused about supply allocation but going to check that out more closely.

Finally, besides mech infantry are recon the only other shock neutral units? Thanks.

[bcgames]

Let me answer your last question first.

ORIGINAL: canuckgamer

...besides mech infantry are recon the only other shock neutral units?

What are Shock Neutral Units? Basically, every unit type except Armor, Mech, Anti-tank, Heavy Anti-tank, and (leg) Infantry. Armor, Mech, Anti-tank, Heavy Anti-tank have defensive "anti"-Shock. Armor, Mech, and Heavy Anti-tank have offensive Shock. (leg) Infantry is a lead weight in the Shock department...and they can become dead weight if you don't protect them from Shock units--by stacking them with your own shock units.

ORIGINAL: canuckgamer

I had an attack where one Italian armour unit with an attack factor of 3 conducted a medium intensity attack on two Commonwealth units totalling 16 defense factors. To me the odds would be 1-6 in a boardgame. However, the basic odds indicated was 1:4.2. There were four shifts for shock to final odds of 1.8:1 and the die roll was a 4 resulting in 10% damage to the Commonwealth strength and 25% damage to their readiness. Looking at the CRT table the very left column is 1:5 so I assume that any attack at worse than those odds starts with a basic odds of 1:5. Can you explain the two odds of 1:4.2 and 1.8:1?

No, sorry. That's a good question for Brian. Like you, I'm an old boardgamer. To me, 1.8:1 isn't 2:1 yet...so I start looking for some artillery to kick it up a notch.

ORIGINAL: canuckgamer
Oddly enough the sound effect for the resolution of this attack sounded like an air attack as well.

I've experienced the same thing. It has to do with the film playback speed. The faster the playback, the more likely it is that you hear only one of the battle sounds associated with a single attack. So if you have an air asset involved with a ground attack, at slow speed you will hear AA fire sound, Air Attack sound, the Ground Attack sound. At faster speeds? One or two sound files don't play...which may be a blessing. I don't know how the program decides what to play at faster film speeds.

ORIGINAL: canuckgamer

I'm also a little confused about supply allocation but going to check that out more closely.

I know alot more about this topic. Ask away.

[Saint Ruth]

I had an attack where one Italian armour unit with an attack factor of 3 conducted a medium intensity attack on two Commonwealth units totalling 16 defense factors. To me the odds would be 1-6 in a boardgame. However, the basic odds indicated was 1:4.2. There were four shifts for shock to final odds of 1.8:1 and the die roll was a 4 resulting in 10% damage to the Commonwealth strength and 25% damage to their readiness. Looking at the CRT table the very left column is 1:5 so I assume that any attack at worse than those odds starts with a basic odds of 1:5. Can you explain the two odds of 1:4.2 and 1.8:1? Oddly enough the sound effect for the resolution of this attack sounded like an air attack as well.

Perhaps there was some defensive artillery? Did you look at the battle screen? (Right click the battle)?
Do you still have the game saved so I can have a look?
Thanks,
Brian

[canuckgamer]

Yes I did look at the combat screen and even took a screen shot and there was no artillery on either side. If there was defensive artillery the odds would have even been worse than 1-6. I've converted the screenshot to a GIF file but now I'm trying to figure how to reduce it less than 200KB as it currently is almost 800KB..

[canuckgamer]

Here are my questions about supply . I have been right clicking on HQs choosing the supply icon and then checking off ammo and fuel if I intend on attacking with units subordinate to that HQ. For example in the Sid Baranni scenario I did that for the 11th Indian brigade which indicates that it's units need 6 ammo for combat and 10 fuel for moves (road moves). As I clicked I could see that the supply levels as shown on the top of the screen were reduced 6 and 10 respectively.
I also noticed that the 4th Indian Division HQ indicated 2 required for moves and 2 for combat.
When I looked at page 124 in the manual which details costs per stacking points I need some clarification. Is the cost for 10 SPs of each type of unit the total of it's immediate HQ plus it's divisional, Corps and Army HQs? If yes seems excessive. I would appreciate it if you could explain the table on page 124.
What happens when you move more SPs than the supply you have? If some units do not receive the supply benefit in this situation how does the program choose which units.
Thanks.

[bcgames]

Thanks for your questions. I'll address the last question first.

ORIGINAL: canuckgamer

What happens when you move more SPs than the supply you have? If some units do not receive the supply benefit in this situation how does the program choose which units.

If you have more SPs in an organization than you have supply points (fuel/ammo) to provide for--then that organization can't receive Move+ and/or Combat+ status. The program doesn't have to choose--it's either everybody gets Move+ and/or Combat+ or nobody in the organization gets those supply improvements.

More to follow...

[bcgames]

ORIGINAL: canuckgamer

...I looked at page 124 in the manual which details costs per stacking points[.] I need some clarification. Is the cost for 10 SPs of each type of unit the total of it's immediate HQ plus it's divisional, Corps and Army HQs?

No.

First of all, the chart in the manual is incorrect. Here is the correct chart:



So what does it mean? If you are attempting to provide Move+ and/or Combat+ to an Organization, you must have sufficient fuel and/or ammo points on hand to do the job. You can't directly supply individual units of an organization; it's all or nothing for the organization. The typical organizational level that you will make supply decisions is the brigade/regiment level.

If you have sufficient supply points to provide Move+ and/or Combat+ to a regiment or brigade--that's all they need to perform in those supply states; no higher HQ costs are incurred. If you order an entire division, corps, or army to Move+ or Combat+, then you incur the additional expense shown on the chart.

So...if you want your staff to handle the logistics side of the game--they will...just make your supply decisions at division, corps or army level. Organizations that qualify for Move+ and Combat+ will get supplies...if the points are available.

My recommendation is, once you get a handle on how the game plays--manage supplies by by brigade/regiment organization. All others (division, corps, army) by exception.

[canuckgamer]

What I have been doing is allocating combat and movement supply to brigade HQs that will be attacking. Looking at page 123 my interpretation is that allocating supply for movement is not only so a unit can use road movement, but if you don't then their movement is halved. From your reply it doesn't appear that there will be many instances when you would allocate supply to division, corps or army HQs.

Using the 7th Armoured division as an example, I allocated supply to the 4th Armoured brigade HQ because they were attacking.

Another question on a different issue. Since I installed Desert War I have been receiving messages saying that there is a Java update available. I have not updated because I assume if I do, the game will no longer work.

[bcgames]

ORIGINAL: canuckgamer

What I have been doing is allocating combat and movement supply to brigade HQs that will be attacking.

You should also think about supplying artillery all the time...regardless of whether it is "attacking" or "defending". Artillery is a killer too.

ORIGINAL: canuckgamer

Looking at page 123 my interpretation is that allocating supply for movement is not only so a unit can use road movement, but if you don't then their movement is halved.

You are tracking like a railroad.

ORIGINAL: canuckgamer

From your reply it doesn't appear that there will be many instances when you would allocate supply to division, corps or army HQs.

The scenario assumes the player will be allocating by division/corps/army so that's how many supply points you get at-start (generally speaking). If you don't want to worry about supplies, just assign it at division/corps/army level. About day three units and supplies will be exhausted. That is the historical average. If you work for it, you can stretch units and supplies alot longer by allocating supplies at brigade/regiment level, and resting units at night (GTs 3, 6, 9, 12, etc.).

ORIGINAL: canuckgamer

Another question on a different issue. Since I installed Desert War I have been receiving messages saying that there is a Java update available. I have not updated because I assume if I do, the game will no longer work.

Dunno. That's outside my expertise. Hopefully someone reading this will know the answer to your question.

[BletchleyGeek]

ORIGINAL: canuckgamer
Another question on a different issue. Since I installed Desert War I have been receiving messages saying that there is a Java update available. I have not updated because I assume if I do, the game will no longer work.

The notifications are a feature of the Java Runtime Environment (JRE) necessary to run the game (since it is built in JAVA). By default, the JRE installs a service in your system that checks periodically for updates.

Updates to the JRE haven't broken the game for me. Yet [:)]

[canuckgamer]

Thank you bcgames, and BletchleyGeek for the replies. The next time I get the Java update message I am going to update because it gets to annoying since it appears multiple times each day.

In regards to supplies, I thought the fact that I allocate supply to a brigade that any artillery under it would get supply. It is also odd that the amount of supply needed by the 7th Armoured Division HQ is 2 and 2 for movement and combat compared to the 7th Armoured Brigade which is 10 and 6. I would have thought allocating supply to the division HQ would cost more since it has more units under it's command than a brigade HQ.

Given this smaller requirement it would cost less by always allocating the 2 and 2 to the 7th Armoured Division HQ rather than the individual brigade HQs under it's command.

[bcgames]

ORIGINAL: canuckgamer

In regards to supplies, I thought the fact that I allocate supply to a brigade that any artillery under it would get supply. It is also odd that the amount of supply needed by the 7th Armoured Division HQ is 2 and 2 for movement and combat compared to the 7th Armoured Brigade which is 10 and 6. I would have thought allocating supply to the division HQ would cost more since it has more units under it's command than a brigade HQ.

Given this smaller requirement it would cost less by always allocating the 2 and 2 to the 7th Armoured Division HQ rather than the individual brigade HQs under it's command.

It is important to differentiate between organizations and subordinate units and organizations and subordinate organizations when it comes to supply. In the images that follow, you start to see the difference. Here's the situation you are describing...7th Armoured Division HQ @ 2 and 2:

[bcgames]

HQ and direct attachments only requires 2x ammo points for Combat+ and 2x Fuel for Move+. So, what does direct attachments mean? In the image below, you see that 7th Armoured Division has three direct attachments--i.e. three recce "companies" (troops actually). That's what 2 and 2 pay for: the division HQ unit and 3x recce units.

[bcgames]

If you select the Set Supply for: HQs and all subordinate HQs, you get a requirement to pay 41 Fuel for Move+ and 27 Ammo for Combat+.



Those points (if expended) would supply the division HQ, the three recce units, and four subordinate organizations and their units (i.e. 4th Bde, 7th Bde, 22nd Bde, and 7th Spt Group).

[bcgames]

To complete the picture, here's what 7th Armoured Brigade has to pay for Move+ and Combat+ (15/9):

[Deathtreader]

Hi guys,

This a great thread. Keep it coming! Probably worth sticking up top.

Rob.