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Campaign ??? - 11/19/2018 3:50:28 PM   
BobKlugman

 

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Where is the Campaign I had read about being in this game ?
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RE: Campaign ??? - 11/19/2018 4:15:35 PM   
exsonic01

 

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From: Dusty town, somewhere inside central valley of CA
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Single campaign is one of the dev's current priority. IIRC campaign will be added in first DLC.

(in reply to BobKlugman)
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RE: Campaign ??? - 11/19/2018 5:14:17 PM   
nikolas93TS


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We planned and hoped we could finish a campaign for the release, but alas it being a whole new feature it turned out to require far more planning and work than initially though. Dynamic campaign is definitely a next big thing to be released.

(in reply to exsonic01)
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RE: Campaign ??? - 11/19/2018 5:19:32 PM   
Stardog765


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"Dynamic" mmmm that is good to hear!

Can't wait!

Oh and please if you can do a Middle East (Gulf War) DLC with map and units I will throw my wallet at you :)


(in reply to nikolas93TS)
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RE: Campaign ??? - 11/20/2018 9:35:18 AM   
Adam Rinkleff

 

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For what it's worth, you can create a pretty significant 'campaign' within a single battle. I'm currently approaching hour five of the battle for Schneverdingen (July 1991), and I still haven't made contact with the Soviet main force, which is entrenched on a ridge several kilometers away.

If you increase the map size and the number of units, you'll spend quite a bit of time just clearing out all the enemy scouts, listening posts, obstacles, minefields, machine gun nests, and bunkers, while redeploying your AA and AT assets to protect the advance from roving aircraft and opportunistic vehicles, while making sure you don't over-concentrate and expose your advance to enemy artillery. I've been averaging about a kilometer per hour, but I suspect it's going to get a lot slower once the shooting starts in earnest. I could have moved faster, but that would have been suicide with all those gunships that were floating around earlier in the day, while those bunkers would have just mowed squads down. They did enough damage as it was. I took out one listening post, and with their final report they called in an airstrike on my scouts.

Night is approaching, and that's going to further complicate the situation. I've only just breached the outskirts of the town, and will have to clear it out house by house, but the main position is on the hill overlooking the town. I suspect I'll start taking heavy fire once I near the city center. They've put pillboxes inside the buildings. I've tried heavy mortars, artillery, rockets, and bombs... flamethrowers seem to be the most effective means of clearing them out.

There aren't many wargames out there that include a complete approach and reconnaissance phase, while I haven't even maxed out the settings. With the right selection of terrain and units, you can create some lengthy engagements. I suppose if I lose this battle, I'll just play the same map and put myself on defense. If I lose that, I'll just slide the map over to the west and repeat until I win. Or if I win this battle, I'll just move the map a few kilometers further east.



< Message edited by Adam Rinkleff -- 11/20/2018 10:06:29 AM >

(in reply to Stardog765)
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RE: Campaign ??? - 11/20/2018 12:53:10 PM   
Stardog765


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That is really awesome, thank you for the write up there.

Pretty amazing.

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RE: Campaign ??? - 11/20/2018 1:54:07 PM   
Lowlaner2012

 

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I have not bought the game yet but its at 1st place on my X-mas list, could the battle generator used to simulate a campaign?

Cheers

(in reply to Stardog765)
Post #: 7
RE: Campaign ??? - 11/20/2018 2:02:00 PM   
exsonic01

 

Posts: 606
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From: Dusty town, somewhere inside central valley of CA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowlaner2012

I have not bought the game yet but its at 1st place on my X-mas list, could the battle generator used to simulate a campaign?

Cheers

No, but what Adam means here is that you can create a "big" single mission, almost feels like campaign or a part of campaign.

(in reply to Lowlaner2012)
Post #: 8
RE: Campaign ??? - 11/20/2018 2:06:41 PM   
exsonic01

 

Posts: 606
Joined: 7/26/2016
From: Dusty town, somewhere inside central valley of CA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Adam Rinkleff

For what it's worth, you can create a pretty significant 'campaign' within a single battle. I'm currently approaching hour five of the battle for Schneverdingen (July 1991), and I still haven't made contact with the Soviet main force, which is entrenched on a ridge several kilometers away.

If you increase the map size and the number of units, you'll spend quite a bit of time just clearing out all the enemy scouts, listening posts, obstacles, minefields, machine gun nests, and bunkers, while redeploying your AA and AT assets to protect the advance from roving aircraft and opportunistic vehicles, while making sure you don't over-concentrate and expose your advance to enemy artillery. I've been averaging about a kilometer per hour, but I suspect it's going to get a lot slower once the shooting starts in earnest. I could have moved faster, but that would have been suicide with all those gunships that were floating around earlier in the day, while those bunkers would have just mowed squads down. They did enough damage as it was. I took out one listening post, and with their final report they called in an airstrike on my scouts.

Night is approaching, and that's going to further complicate the situation. I've only just breached the outskirts of the town, and will have to clear it out house by house, but the main position is on the hill overlooking the town. I suspect I'll start taking heavy fire once I near the city center. They've put pillboxes inside the buildings. I've tried heavy mortars, artillery, rockets, and bombs... flamethrowers seem to be the most effective means of clearing them out.

There aren't many wargames out there that include a complete approach and reconnaissance phase, while I haven't even maxed out the settings. With the right selection of terrain and units, you can create some lengthy engagements. I suppose if I lose this battle, I'll just play the same map and put myself on defense. If I lose that, I'll just slide the map over to the west and repeat until I win. Or if I win this battle, I'll just move the map a few kilometers further east.




I tried 10km x 13km "Battle of Bad Hersfeld", 25k vs 50k meeting engagement, try to depict the initial push of Red army vs 11th ACR. It was really fun, but not easy game to follow and control. So chaotic. There were too many hills and mountains, both me and AI feel hard to maneuver.

After I feel myself confident about mission generation, I wish to try to design a huge scenario like that. I'm still looking for what might be the best map size - point price relation for "best experience" for such huge game. Maybe you could do your one too, or how about write AAR of that huge game. Screenshot looks amazing. Great work!

< Message edited by exsonic01 -- 11/20/2018 2:14:02 PM >

(in reply to Adam Rinkleff)
Post #: 9
RE: Campaign ??? - 11/20/2018 2:41:37 PM   
Adam Rinkleff

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: exsonic01
I'm still looking for what might be the best map size - point price relation for "best experience" for such huge game. Maybe you could do your one too, or how about write AAR of that huge game. Screenshot looks amazing. Great work!


I would reccomend you start with the smallest map size. If you do that, and you pick 15 squads (around one company of infantry, with a couple of mortars, machine-guns, tanks, etc), you already have the basic setup seen in Close Combat. You could go smaller and limit yourself to a platoon, or even a squad. Anything larger than that is just as much complication as you can handle. Consider it a rank system, where you can be anything from a Sergeant to a Brigadier. Honestly, 50'000 points worth of infantry might be enough for an entire division.

I thought about doing an AAR on this one, but mostly I just wanted to try it out, but perhaps on the next one.

I think 'meeting engagement' battles should be avoided, in a real war you almost never have two armies approaching the same location for some random reason. You generally have one side already in defensive positions, and the other attacking. If you find yourself winning, just give the AI more troops. Like in a real war, your opponent may not have your skills, but they may have more troops. I also think its best to play without pausing, especially if you are winning.

I also try to set the objectives to logical locations (hill, crossroads), but I set the dummy objectives setting to the maximum. This gives common sense objectives on the map like you might expect to receive in your orders (ie: in my battle, objective 7 is a prominent hill), but because it's a dummy objective the AI might have a different plan than you expect and no two battles with the same map/force/objective will be the same because of random dummy objectives.


< Message edited by Adam Rinkleff -- 11/20/2018 2:43:06 PM >

(in reply to exsonic01)
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RE: Campaign ??? - 11/20/2018 2:48:58 PM   
Adam Rinkleff

 

Posts: 371
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowlaner2012

could the battle generator used to simulate a campaign?

Cheers


You can vary the unit compositions used. So, for example, you could take campaign rules from any number of wargame systems and use that to determine units and strengths. One campaign I remember had a phase where you would advance through enemy recon units, and the mission generator can be told to only use its moost mobile forces. Likewise, you can move the maps back and forth around the terrain as needed. Hopefully, at some point, it will let you save damage to the map (ie: wrecks and shellholes).

(in reply to Lowlaner2012)
Post #: 11
RE: Campaign ??? - 11/20/2018 2:57:56 PM   
exsonic01

 

Posts: 606
Joined: 7/26/2016
From: Dusty town, somewhere inside central valley of CA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Adam Rinkleff
I would reccomend you start with the smallest map size. If you do that, and you pick 15 squads (around one company of infantry, with a couple of mortars, machine-guns, tanks, etc), you already have the basic setup seen in Close Combat. You could go smaller and limit yourself to a platoon, or even a squad. Anything larger than that is just as much complication as you can handle. Consider it a rank system, where you can be anything from a Sergeant to a Brigadier. Honestly, 50'000 points worth of infantry might be enough for an entire division.

I thought about doing an AAR on this one, but mostly I just wanted to try it out, but perhaps on the next one.

I think 'meeting engagement' battles should be avoided, in a real war you almost never have two armies approaching the same location for some random reason. You generally have one side already in defensive positions, and the other attacking. If you find yourself winning, just give the AI more troops. Like in a real war, your opponent may not have your skills, but they may have more troops. I also think its best to play without pausing, especially if you are winning.

I also try to set the objectives to logical locations (hill, crossroads), but I set the dummy objectives setting to the maximum. This gives common sense objectives on the map like you might expect to receive in your orders (ie: in my battle, objective 7 is a prominent hill), but because it's a dummy objective the AI might have a different plan than you expect and no two battles with the same map/force/objective will be the same because of random dummy objectives.

Actually, that "battle of Bad Hersfeld" was my second try for "huge game" during beta version. I think I still need to learn more about scenario making, and that's why waiting for dev's manual for scenario design. Thanks for all those suggestions.

Good point about meeting engagement. But I prefer to play meeting engagement, just to enjoy the feeling of "maneuver vs maneuver", feeling the sense of "tug of war", flanking vs flanking, charge vs charge. I agree that 99% of real battle would be assault vs defense, but who knows? By rare chance, that would've been possible during hypothetical hot cold war.

One other reason is that I don't want to watch game flows to artillery battle, and this game doesn't have counter battery option yet. (I suggested counter battery in beta, and devs like it, so I wish they have some good idea about CB to introduce in this game for future.) Right now, if I spam recon infantry and infiltrate them as much as possible and prepare good amount of artillery, than I could snipe any tanks or ATGM vehicles in defensive position without casualty, one by one, section by section, during assault/defense scenario. And it seems AI cannot react against my "sniping by artillery". AI do this too. So my defense always become maneuvering defense, not static defense.

Things are different in 1960~70 game when there is no DPICM neither FASCAM in game, but HE shelling is still annoying XD.



< Message edited by exsonic01 -- 11/20/2018 5:01:10 PM >

(in reply to Adam Rinkleff)
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RE: Campaign ??? - 11/21/2018 10:58:27 AM   
zacklaws

 

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One of the issues you will come up against if you try and do a large battle that will last for a day or longer, is the fact that you will run out of ammunition as resupply is not in the game as I found out beta testing AB when I tried to play very large scenarios. The work around is to have lots of reserve units including off map artillery that will come forward to replace those that have run out of ammunition. If you do not, then you will suddenly find that the game grinds to a halt as you have no ammunition left.

< Message edited by zacklaws -- 11/21/2018 11:00:49 AM >

(in reply to exsonic01)
Post #: 13
RE: Campaign ??? - 11/21/2018 1:29:56 PM   
Adam Rinkleff

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: zacklaws

One of the issues you will come up against if you try and do a large battle that will last for a day or longer, is the fact that you will run out of ammunition as resupply is not in the game as I found out beta testing AB when I tried to play very large scenarios. The work around is to have lots of reserve units including off map artillery that will come forward to replace those that have run out of ammunition. If you do not, then you will suddenly find that the game grinds to a halt as you have no ammunition left.



Yah, that's one of the reasons I've been advancing slow and careful. I think I'm on hour EIGHT. I still haven't taken an objective. Fortunately, if you want more ammo, it is easy to mod the units.

(in reply to zacklaws)
Post #: 14
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