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Loss ratios...... - 10/23/2018 8:08:08 PM   
chaos45

 

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Okay having played quite a few turns now in this newest patch.

Losses between the 2 sides are way off. Yes soviets should take more losses but its abit one sided almost all the time in 41 and 42.

I have very commonly seen 100-150k Soviet loss turns without any pocket losses playing in both years. So in 1942 these are fully trained soviets units and they are still being slaughtered by the combat system.

In exchange for those 100k+ soviet losses the Axis are only losing 20-25k on average. This type of exchange rate really isn't sustainable for the Soviets with the current manpower replacement system.

Others feel free to speak up, but this isn't a one off incident I have seen it turn after turns except for mud turns.

Either combat losses for the soviets have been super amped up to much or attrition losses for the soviets are much to high now, something has massively increased soviet losses, and the approx. 100k replacement stream from 42 on that only goes down will not keep up with this.

Also as well tank losses are super unrealistic, 100 soviet tanks lost crushing a weak German division seems abit absurd. While the German tanks can lose 4-5 hasty attacks in a row and only lose 15 tanks if the soviet player is lucky.

< Message edited by chaos45 -- 10/23/2018 8:10:15 PM >
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RE: Loss ratios...... - 10/23/2018 8:29:12 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


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Nada

< Message edited by HardLuckYetAgain -- 12/28/2018 6:28:04 PM >


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RE: Loss ratios...... - 10/23/2018 8:35:46 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


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< Message edited by HardLuckYetAgain -- 12/28/2018 6:28:21 PM >


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RE: Loss ratios...... - 10/23/2018 8:59:00 PM   
xhoel


Posts: 699
Joined: 6/24/2017
From: Germany
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quote:

ORIGINAL: chaos45

Okay having played quite a few turns now in this newest patch.

Losses between the 2 sides are way off. Yes soviets should take more losses but its abit one sided almost all the time in 41 and 42.

I have very commonly seen 100-150k Soviet loss turns without any pocket losses playing in both years. So in 1942 these are fully trained soviets units and they are still being slaughtered by the combat system.

In exchange for those 100k+ soviet losses the Axis are only losing 20-25k on average. This type of exchange rate really isn't sustainable for the Soviets with the current manpower replacement system.

Others feel free to speak up, but this isn't a one off incident I have seen it turn after turns except for mud turns.

Either combat losses for the soviets have been super amped up to much or attrition losses for the soviets are much to high now, something has massively increased soviet losses, and the approx. 100k replacement stream from 42 on that only goes down will not keep up with this.

Also as well tank losses are super unrealistic, 100 soviet tanks lost crushing a weak German division seems abit absurd. While the German tanks can lose 4-5 hasty attacks in a row and only lose 15 tanks if the soviet player is lucky.


100-150k losses without pockets? Have never seen that happen. I'm destroying 15 Rifle Divisions a turn and barely breaking the 120k mark. The new patch has increased German losses, I am seeing Germans suffer more losses than Soviets in battles where the Germans have numerical superiority time and time again.

Why is that unrealistic? Soviet armored units fared terribly in 41 due to dozens of reasons. Haven't seen a panzer division do what you are saying either. Maybe the shown losses are low but the TOEs do take a hit. I had panzers in the 50-60% range due to having been in combat for too long.

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http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4490035
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RE: Loss ratios...... - 10/23/2018 9:15:06 PM   
xhoel


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Here are some examples. All are deliberate attacks where the Germans have not only numerical superiority but also an advantage in artillery:







Hasty attacks under same conditions. These are only from this turn mind you.





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AAR WITW: Gotterdammerung 43-45
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4490035
AAR WITE: A Clash of Titans 41-45
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4488465

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RE: Loss ratios...... - 10/23/2018 9:27:21 PM   
SparkleyTits

 

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In a multiplayer and 1 vs 1 game as Soviets I am involved in atm I am usually seeing losses of about 85-105k ish on a turn without any units being pocketed currently

I get the feeling building OOB in 41 seems hard work currently but definitely need a bigger data pool and more testing to know for sure

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RE: Loss ratios...... - 10/24/2018 7:09:52 PM   
chaos45

 

Posts: 1696
Joined: 1/22/2001
Status: online
xhoel- you post a lot of individual battles by only german infantry attacking into fortified soviets where the soviets also have at least some airsupport for most of them. Also what do soviet losses look like when they attack you or does your opponent never attack?

Honestly I don't care about each individual battle- I'm looking at the whole turn approach- why is the exchange rate 4:1+? is it the new combat engine? did they increase soviet attrition?

With Soviet replacement rates having been reduced to fairly low rates- even with Moscow/Leningrad- 101k in 1942....and how many soviets can hold Leningrad- almost Zero.

So your talking a Soviet replacement rate is only around 90k going into 1942 if you hold Moscow...if you lose Moscow it drops to the low 80k's

The game has changed to the point that the German player can to easily reduce the Soviet Army via just combat/attrition, and encirclements are just a bonus. Yes on some turns the Soviet losses will dip to just under 100k it all depends on how aggressive the German play is. However if you only take 90k one turn but then suddenly take 120k the next turn or suffer a pocket its a net reduction that averages at to about the 100k loss per turn rate and encirclements just spike that usually.

This has a domino effect on the soviets because units attacked/ virtually crushed in direct combat are often nigh useless for combat for a turn or two- which then means the soviet player has to commit units that have virtually no experience to the frontline due to the horrendous starting experience level and lack of training EXP gain.

I'm merely trying to speak out on game balance, as something isn't working right when the soviets have virtually not chance to prevent a fall of both Leningrad and Moscow if the German player does certain opening moves correctly- remember the soviet player cannot influence T1 at all and only has a very limited impact on T2 due to lack of forces....and well with super Lvov the domino effect of never ending German panzer movement continues easily into the first several months of the game as the Soviet player cannot put up enough trained units to slow/halt German tanks....now yes the German player must keep the tanks fueled but as seen in several recent games its not difficult to do if you do the rail right and use a couple HQBU as the Germans.

(in reply to SparkleyTits)
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