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Population missing? - 10/21/2018 1:37:21 PM   
AlexSF


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In the Logistics Phase Event Log screen there is that box near the bottom. I never understood what it stands for and what the number means. Anyone has the answer?
The screen shot was taken turn 2 of the GC, Soviet side.






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RE: Population missing? - 10/21/2018 2:32:59 PM   
Denniss

 

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should be populaton evacuated but got lost in the chaos + some might get lost while under occupation

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RE: Population missing? - 10/21/2018 4:13:03 PM   
thedoctorking


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I think they're missing because they're dead. Something like 16 million Soviet civilians died in the war. I think the way the game handles this is that when a manpower center is captured, there is a percentage chance that it relocates to the east and a percentage chance that it dies. The survivors remain and I think they have a much smaller chance of dying when recaptured by the USSR. If a city changes hands a couple of times it can easily be depopulated.

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RE: Population missing? - 10/21/2018 6:49:21 PM   
AlexSF


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ok, well I suppose it makes sense. Still it's a bit mysterious and abstract.

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RE: Population missing? - 10/21/2018 10:59:17 PM   
thedoctorking


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I have noticed a reluctance on the part of wargame designers to acknowledge frankly some of the harsher realities. So an abstract "missing" makes it easier on the players than "killed".

I remember Sid Meier's Colonization, back in the 90's - a great game, btw - where you were settling the Americas and building plantations and suchlike. You had to bring workers in to staff your facilities or they wouldn't produce for you. Of course, historically, plantations and mines and so forth were staffed by forced laborers - slaves - brought from Africa. But the game designers didn't want players to be in the position of running the Atlantic Slave Trade, so they created ahistorical "indentured servant" and "convict" labor units that you could pick up in Europe. Of course, another option was to go out and beat up on the Indians and make them come work for you, so some forms of forced labor by non-white people were OK.

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RE: Population missing? - 10/22/2018 6:59:37 AM   
Chris21wen

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AlexSF

ok, well I suppose it makes sense. Still it's a bit mysterious and abstract.


This is according to the Manual

21.1.9. Manpower Production and Migration
Population is a permanent characteristic of a town, city or urban hex and is provided for reference. Population value does not change during the game (only the manpower “factories” are reduced during population evacuation). A population point represents 50,000 people (in the town, city, urban hexes or surrounding area).

Manpower, represented by factories in town, city or urban hexes, is produced at a variable rate dependent on nationality and the year.

Manpower factories can be damaged, destroyed, or can migrate to other town, city and urban hexes.

and

21.1.9.3. Manpower Evacuation and Migration
Manpower factory points in German and Soviet nationality town, city and urban hexes may evacuate/migrate when the hex is captured by enemy units. For purposes of migration, each manpower factory point represents 50,000 people. The more manpower factory points in a hex, the better the chance some will migrate but it will decline once the city's manpower is less than 50% of its population. When manpower factory points migrate, they will try to move to another town, city or urban hex (including off map cities) at least 14 hexes away from an enemy unit. Evacuations/migrations will not occur in June 1941 or in Soviet town, city or urban hexes after 1942. Town,
city or urban hexes re-captured by friendly units will not undergo migration. Only German and Soviet manpower can migrate, but all manpower can be damaged or destroyed.

From this, population is refering to to maximum number of people who can live at the location and does not change, while manpower is referring to the people who are currently there and can change. So I think it should say 'Soviet manpower missing'







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< Message edited by Chris21wen -- 10/22/2018 7:00:48 AM >

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RE: Population missing? - 10/22/2018 1:21:18 PM   
AlexSF


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What confuses me is the term 'missing'. It is nowhere in the manual where you have words like 'evacuation','migration', 'destroyed' and 'damaged'. So what is 'missing'?

Let's say it means destroyed, then why 900k? It would be 900,000 people which in game terms means 18 points I guess (divided by 50,000).
So I would have 18 points of manpower destroyed when the German captured my cities...that's closer to reality I guess, on turn 2 of the GC.

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RE: Population missing? - 10/22/2018 2:43:09 PM   
Chris21wen

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AlexSF

What confuses me is the term 'missing'. It is nowhere in the manual where you have words like 'evacuation','migration', 'destroyed' and 'damaged'. So what is 'missing'?

Let's say it means destroyed, then why 900k? It would be 900,000 people which in game terms means 18 points I guess (divided by 50,000).
So I would have 18 points of manpower destroyed when the German captured my cities...that's closer to reality I guess, on turn 2 of the GC.


As thedoctorking said, it's abstract for killed. All those that left somewhere did not arrive somewhere. Missing in action would be the closest.

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