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Russian Pacific Fleet - 10/20/2018 7:48:19 PM   
De Savage


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After playing Kuril Sunrise scenario I'm eager to find more information about Russian forces in the Eastern theater. Surprisinly I can't find much information about Naval brigades and specially their landing ships.

Pacific Fleet have two naval infantry brigades, one in Vladivostok and one in Kamchatskiy. They have three Rupucha II and one Alligator LST ships. I'm tring to find these landing ships and also locate their brigades home bases.

40th Independent Krasnodarsko-Kharbinsky Twice Red Banner Naval Infantry Brigade - Kamchatskiy?
155th Guards Red Banner Naval Infantry Brigade - Vladivostok?

Where are the missing Ropucha class ships? I tried to find them in Google Maps, but no avail. Or are they in reserve or decomissed? Source is: - not sure how good source is.

Here's the picture of the ships in the Baltic. Where are they in the Pacific.

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< Message edited by De Savage -- 10/20/2018 8:14:49 PM >
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RE: Russian Pacific Fleet - 10/20/2018 9:06:34 PM   

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All 3 ships should be based in Vladivostok. But them missing on images won't be too surprising - they are spending lots of time in the Black sea and Mediterranean as there aren't many ships for the Novorossiysk - Tartus supply route called "Syrian express".

< Message edited by Sharana -- 10/20/2018 9:07:03 PM >


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RE: Russian Pacific Fleet - 10/22/2018 1:18:41 PM   

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I've had the same problem. The tendency in opened literature is to focus on the Russian Atlantic fleet. None the less, there's lots of interesting Pacific scenarios. In fact, I used to know an old A-6 bombadier-navigator who was in the Pacific fleet in the 80s, and he used to tell me great stories about confronting Bear bombers in the Pacific and the fears of nuclear war. Apparently if they got too close to Vladivostok the Backfires launched. The Japanese MSDF is also modern, capable, and professional.

The two naval infantry brigades you mentioned are interesting. From what I've been able to tell they've been kept at varying strength since the fall of the Berlin Wall. At one point the brigade in Petropavlosk-Kamchatsky was as low as regimental strength. Other sources indicate it may have been rebuilt since then.

There may be no landing ships in that theater. The intent might be to use the naval infantry in a defensive role, and deter an amphibious assault on those bases. Bear in mind, there's a huge US amphibious force in the Pacific, they might be positioned to counter. Just the FDNF in Sasebo is 4 ships, plus more from San Diego and Pearl Harbor.

< Message edited by SeaQueen -- 10/22/2018 1:20:53 PM >

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RE: Russian Pacific Fleet - 10/22/2018 3:47:02 PM   
De Savage


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Pacific is great theather indeed. Distance is longer, ocean is deep and several small islands make this area interesting.

I had couple days to find information about Russian forces there. I used google to find news about each landing ships and they have been used during the exercises. So they are active. There are not many, their readiness is probably low, but still they exist. It seems one or two are used during the exercises. In Daily Mail there are some recent pictures with landing ship Oslyabya and also new (refitted) command ship Admiral Krylov. Currently Russian Pacific Fleet is most outdated, but they are starting to modernize this too in slow pace.

I did not find much information about two naval infantry brigades. Kuril islands defence is one "division" 18th Machine-Gun-Artillery divison, HQ in Iturup island. 49th regiment is in Iturup and 46th regiment in Kunashiri island. Kuril island have about 3,500 troops stationed. They have SSC-6 Bal, possible SSC-5 Bastion SSM missiles. Air defence have Tor SAM, Pantsir and BUK. There is infastructure for S-400, easy to airlift to Iturup if necessary. Russia is improving Iturup and Kusashir islands and building dozens of new buildings. One interesting thing is that there are plans to build Navy and airbase to Kuril Matu island.

And Japan is improving it's amhibious forces. Maybe they have plans to use F-35B from their amphibious ships too.

< Message edited by De Savage -- 10/22/2018 3:48:37 PM >

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RE: Russian Pacific Fleet - 10/22/2018 11:24:27 PM   

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I am not sure why we should expect to have real time access to the OOB and positioning of any nation’s units so we can play games with them.

The art of scenario design is to use information available online or through books and come up with plausible, playable, and fun scenarios.

Perhaps write a letter to the CIA and maybe get a response in 30 years:

Even with the best public info, a designer is only providing an estimate of a snap shot in time to the Command player regarding what is available to a nation's military. This stuff is secret for a reason.

Is Wiki the definitive resource? No.

Does it provide plausible data. Yes.


< Message edited by kevinkin -- 10/23/2018 4:48:42 AM >


“The study of history lies at the foundation of all sound military conclusions and practice.”
― Alfred Thayer Mahan

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RE: Russian Pacific Fleet - 10/23/2018 1:03:04 AM   

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ORIGINAL: kevinkin
Does it provide plausible data. Yes.

I agree with this entirely. Since it's not like we're doing actual assessments it isn't super important to get things exactly right. It's enough to just make an educated guess given what's out there. Wikipedia, books, magazine articles, newspaper articles, etc. are great.

In truth, even intelligence services are only making their best guess given the information they have available. Very often their best guesses are highly qualified with long lists of assumptions, which turn out not to be true the next time they make an assessment, sometimes resulting in wild swings in their estimates. No matter what you do, trying to predict the future is fraught with uncertainty. Interestingly, in spite of satellites, aircraft, computer hackers and networks of spies, intelligence services also rely a great deal on opened source material. They might be looking at the same material you are. If someone's willing to talk to a spy they might be just as willing to talk to a newspaper reporter?

(in reply to kevinkins)
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RE: Russian Pacific Fleet - 10/24/2018 3:10:19 AM   


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There's a reason the Open Source Enterprise exists:

(in reply to SeaQueen)
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