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Political Points (PP). Full price is full price. Or is it?

 
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Political Points (PP). Full price is full price. Or is it? - 9/14/2018 5:07:47 PM   
rustysi


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So here's something I've been pondering (crap not again).

In my current AI game I've set it as such, my own HR. Easy to do against the AI. What's that you say? No unit may be brought out with less than a 90/xxx level of ready devices. Simply, it must be 90% ready devices to be brought out. Not too difficult when talking about the Japanese, but I don't get those 'free' units that may be really reduced in China. It slows the pace a bit, which is what I'm looking for.

So, I'm thinking this will be another () HR for a PBEM game, because well full price is full price. Now that's easy to say, but is it fair to the Allies? Or is it too restrictive? My intention is to slow the pace of the game a bit, not to break it. I have little knowledge as to how many Allied units may need to be brought out, what their initial strength is when 'placed' on map (therefore affecting their cost), or how quickly they may get to full strength given device availability.

So I'm seeking input from the forum. What do you think, and try not to answer from the perspective of whether you like such a restriction, but from a point of fairness. Maybe the level is too high. If so what should it be, 80%, 50%? I don't want to make it such that the Allies can't get their actual OOB to the front. I just don't want it all there in '42. Unless it was there in the first place. Also, maybe the levels should be different for the two sides. Maybe 90% is OK for Japan, and say 75% for the Allies. Don't abuse that recommendation.

I do have a few units in mind that would be exceptions. For example the US 41 ID. In the original release it was unrestricted. For whatever reason the Dev's changed this, and said they gave the PP's back elsewhere. OK, so I don't want this unit to cost the Allies any more than it should, so buy it out at any level of completeness. Another example would be the units in China that were 'withdrawn' to Burma. Any that need to be brought out could be done at any level. They were after all essentially 'rebuilt' in Burma/India, and from a cursory look there aren't that many that could/have to be brought out anyway. Some of those units are unrestricted to begin with.

The point is to just slow things a bit for both sides. The initial expansion, and the subsequent reconquest. Or am I fiddling where none is needed? Is this way off the mark? Its difficult to know what the DEV's intended here and I'm not a mind reader. Not only that I get that this facet of the game may not have been fully tweaked before release, but it is with us. So I'm looking for a bit more insight (if possible) into the PP subsystem of the game. All help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance for your input.



_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb
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RE: Political Points (PP). Full price is full price. Or... - 9/14/2018 5:27:25 PM   
szmike

 

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Imho not (ab)using air HQs to buy out ground forces is enough of a HR.

(in reply to rustysi)
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RE: Political Points (PP). Full price is full price. Or... - 9/14/2018 5:32:16 PM   
btd64


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What scenario are you using? What is the current PP's pay out per turn? If it's a mod with a larger amount of PP's then I would say around 70 to 80%. If it's a stock 1 scenario then I wouldn't worry about it....GP

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RE: Political Points (PP). Full price is full price. Or... - 9/14/2018 5:36:31 PM   
rustysi


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Yeah, thanks GP. I forgot to mention the scenario is stock 1. That means 50 PP/side/day.

< Message edited by rustysi -- 9/14/2018 5:37:05 PM >


_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to btd64)
Post #: 4
RE: Political Points (PP). Full price is full price. Or... - 9/14/2018 5:42:50 PM   
btd64


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

Yeah, thanks GP. I forgot to mention the scenario is stock 1. That means 50 PP/side/day.


I wouldn't worry about it then....GP

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RE: Political Points (PP). Full price is full price. Or... - 9/14/2018 6:10:50 PM   
HansBolter


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I see this as counterproductive.

How are you delaying anything any more?

If you buy a unit out more cheaply because it is at 20% TOE strength, you're still gonna have the same delay in USING it because you are likely to allow it to spend time filling out the TOE to at least 70% before committing it to battle.
And furthermore, you are still paying Full Price for that 20% of the TOE that you are buying.


Personally, I don't want to have to pay PPs for devices from the replacement pool that I should be getting for free.
By forcing the player to send those replacements to a unit that has to be bought out you are also forcing them to pay for the replacements.

I never allow a restricted LCU to take replacements unless that LCU will be defending its location against an assault.

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Hans


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RE: Political Points (PP). Full price is full price. Or... - 9/14/2018 6:13:44 PM   
btd64


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

I see this as counterproductive.

How are you delaying anything any more?

If you buy a unit out more cheaply because it is at 20% TOE strength, you're still gonna have the same delay in USING it because you are likely to allow it to spend time filling out the TOE to at least 70% before committing it to battle.
And furthermore, you are still paying Full Price for that 20% of the TOE that you are buying.


Personally, I don't want to have to pay PPs for devices from the replacement pool that I should be getting for free.
By forcing the player to send those replacements to a unit that has to be bought out you are also forcing them to pay for the replacements.

I never allow a restricted LCU to take replacements unless that LCU will be defending its location against an assault.


exactly....GP

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RE: Political Points (PP). Full price is full price. Or... - 9/14/2018 6:38:03 PM   
Macclan5


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I understand the intent...

There are a number of divisions in Australia, the USA and even India which can be bought out inexpensively if one is judicious with their PP.

They can make some significant difference by mid 1942 if you get them to targets prior to the KB and IJN forces.

Hans has essentially answered the point however; you are paying full price for Divisions not upgraded and then probable allow them to sit for some time to gather devises / etc / etc

Rather than home rule this - consider the incremental PP gathered is truly reflective of the 'debate on Europe First Strategy' ; and further buying out the occassional unit through the judicial use of points reflect Admiral King 'wining the debate' on specifying the need to Shore Up the Pacific Ocean

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RE: Political Points (PP). Full price is full price. Or... - 9/14/2018 7:03:22 PM   
rustysi


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quote:

How are you delaying anything any more?


If I spend say 1000 PP's to buy out a division that at full strength will cost me 2000 PP's (or near it) that one thousand PP's more to get the next division. That's 20 days of PP's how is that not delaying things. If I buy out two of those divisions they'll both reach their respective full TO&E at the same time anyway. Difference is one can go anywhere, the other is stuck in its current domain until I save enough PP's to get it out.

< Message edited by rustysi -- 9/14/2018 7:04:12 PM >


_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to Macclan5)
Post #: 9
RE: Political Points (PP). Full price is full price. Or... - 9/14/2018 7:10:57 PM   
HansBolter


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

How are you delaying anything any more?


If I spend say 1000 PP's to buy out a division that at full strength will cost me 2000 PP's (or near it) that one thousand PP's more to get the next division. That's 20 days of PP's how is that not delaying things. If I buy out two of those divisions they'll both reach their respective full TO&E at the same time anyway. Difference is one can go anywhere, the other is stuck in its current domain until I save enough PP's to get it out.



Its the same delay essentially since the unit you buy at 1000 won't be effective to use until it fills out to what would have cost 2000.


Sure, buying it out in its weaker state at 1000 allows you to move it, but why would you and what significant impact will it have in its weakened state?


The only Allied units this has a significant impact on is Indian and to a small degree Aussie divisions.


Most of the American restricted divisions start or enter at near full TOE and run 1900-2100+ PPs to buy out.

< Message edited by HansBolter -- 9/14/2018 7:13:22 PM >


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Hans


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RE: Political Points (PP). Full price is full price. Or... - 9/14/2018 7:12:06 PM   
rustysi


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quote:

They can make some significant difference by mid 1942 if you get them to targets prior to the KB and IJN forces.


Exactly my point. Now if those divisions were fielded by that time anyway so be it, I don't want to delay them further. Playing Scenario 1 as Japan is difficult enough against a live opponent, I don't want the added difficulty of facing units that weren't in my way to begin with. Well not too many anyway. Japan is really stretched for forces to make the expansion, and its taken me quite some time to get to the point where I believe I may make it against an opponent of comparable skill. I'd just like to reach the RL limits of the empire, with maybe a base or two more. Ya know like PM.

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 11
RE: Political Points (PP). Full price is full price. Or... - 9/14/2018 7:16:10 PM   
rustysi


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quote:


Its the same delay essentially since the unit you buy at 1000 won't be effective to use until it fills out to what would have cost 2000.


Sure, buying it out in its weaker state at 1000 allows you to move it, but why would you and what significant impact will it have in its weakened state?


Sorry Hans. Again you miss the point. By getting the units cheaper you'll have that much more when they do fill out. Understand? If I get basically two for one, that means I can get more once they fill out. If I have to fill them out first and then buy them at full price I can't get that many to the front as quickly.

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 12
RE: Political Points (PP). Full price is full price. Or... - 9/14/2018 7:18:06 PM   
rustysi


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quote:

Most of the American restricted divisions start or enter at near full TOE and run 1900-2100+ PPs to buy out.


Thanks, that's exactly the type of info I was seeking, although I may not have said so clearly enough. So in these cases it doesn't make any difference.

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to rustysi)
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RE: Political Points (PP). Full price is full price. Or... - 9/14/2018 7:21:01 PM   
HansBolter


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

They can make some significant difference by mid 1942 if you get them to targets prior to the KB and IJN forces.


Exactly my point. Now if those divisions were fielded by that time anyway so be it, I don't want to delay them further. Playing Scenario 1 as Japan is difficult enough against a live opponent, I don't want the added difficulty of facing units that weren't in my way to begin with. Well not too many anyway. Japan is really stretched for forces to make the expansion, and its taken me quite some time to get to the point where I believe I may make it against an opponent of comparable skill. I'd just like to reach the RL limits of the empire, with maybe a base or two more. Ya know like PM.



But you want the freedom to go to places the Japanese didn't go knowing they will be either weakly or undefended!

If the Japanese are free to go wherever they want instead of the historical locations at the historical times (the real point of any waragme) then how is it unfair for the Allies to possess a little flexibility to be able to pick and choose which of those weakly or undefended locations to attempt to defend?

JFBs always want to have their cake and eat it to. Hasn't the basic game design given your side enough breaks already?

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Hans


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RE: Political Points (PP). Full price is full price. Or... - 9/14/2018 7:23:06 PM   
rustysi


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quote:

The only Allied units this has a significant impact on is Indian and to a small degree Aussie divisions.


And this too is what I'm talking about. I know the Aussies' don't really fill out quickly. Correct me if I'm wrong. Its also my understanding that their replacement rates are low and it would be difficult for them to sustain heavy losses, at least in the early going. True? If not let me know.

As to the Indians I'm more in the dark. Its my understanding the their squad replacement rates aren't too bad, but they too have limited access to other devices. True?

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to rustysi)
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RE: Political Points (PP). Full price is full price. Or... - 9/14/2018 7:26:22 PM   
rustysi


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quote:

JFBs always want to have their cake and eat it to.


Here we go again. Hans I'm trying to have a discussion here, not tilt the game to 'my' side. If you've read any of my posts you 'll know that whatever I ask for one side in a game when I play the other the same 'rules' will apply.

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to rustysi)
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RE: Political Points (PP). Full price is full price. Or... - 9/14/2018 7:28:21 PM   
rustysi


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quote:

But you want the freedom to go to places the Japanese didn't go knowing they will be either weakly or undefended!


Every place Japan went in the early go was weakly defended. I just don't want to land at PM and find the whole damned US Army and Marine Corps at the place.

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 17
RE: Political Points (PP). Full price is full price. Or... - 9/14/2018 7:33:30 PM   
rustysi


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Not that that is possible. Just saying. I don't know, having only concentrated on Japan as yet. I'd really like to give my opponent in a PBEM a good tough fight, not have him or her tie one hand behind their back. Its why I ask questions like this. I come seeking knowledge of which I don't know.

Actually, so far I'm leaning to not worrying about the whole thing, but am not 100% sure as yet. Now can we talk without flinging stuff at one another?

< Message edited by rustysi -- 9/14/2018 7:37:25 PM >


_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 18
RE: Political Points (PP). Full price is full price. Or... - 9/14/2018 7:33:46 PM   
HansBolter


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

JFBs always want to have their cake and eat it to.


Here we go again. Hans I'm trying to have a discussion here, not tilt the game to 'my' side. If you've read any of my posts you 'll know that whatever I ask for one side in a game when I play the other the same 'rules' will apply.


Sorry, you took offense. It was meant in jest.


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Hans


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RE: Political Points (PP). Full price is full price. Or... - 9/14/2018 7:37:36 PM   
HansBolter


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

But you want the freedom to go to places the Japanese didn't go knowing they will be either weakly or undefended!


Every place Japan went in the early go was weakly defended. I just don't want to land at PM and find the whole damned US Army and Marine Corps at the place.



I understand where you are coming from, but its the Japanese players ability to go to almost completely undefended locales that they did not historically go to like India and Australia that have Allied players scrambling to buy out units to defend.


By the time you should be hitting PM the Allies haven't accrued enough points to buy out a single restricted American division let alone sufficient time to get it there.

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Hans


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RE: Political Points (PP). Full price is full price. Or... - 9/14/2018 7:42:05 PM   
btd64


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

Now can we talk without flinging stuff at one another?


....GP

_____________________________

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I don't like paying for the same real estate twice..Gen. George S. Patton

(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 21
RE: Political Points (PP). Full price is full price. Or... - 9/14/2018 8:01:30 PM   
rustysi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter


quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

JFBs always want to have their cake and eat it to.


Here we go again. Hans I'm trying to have a discussion here, not tilt the game to 'my' side. If you've read any of my posts you 'll know that whatever I ask for one side in a game when I play the other the same 'rules' will apply.


Sorry, you took offense. It was meant in jest.


No offense Hans. I like your constant comments as these, and I do understand what you're saying. Remember this, Japan will lose against a knowledgeable Allied opponent. I just don't want to get slaughtered and lose in '42. To have to quit a game that takes so much time and effort to play will be no fun for either player, I want to make the end game. That said I know that the end game for Japan will be just as brutal as is the early for the Allies, but I want my opponent on the 'ropes' for a bit. That's the whole object.

That brings back a memory for me. Remember the Forman fight with Holyfield. He was hitting him pretty good in the early match. On Johnny Carson later when asked he said 'yeah, I was just a little too slow to put that last glove on him to end it'. Of course I'm paraphrasing here somewhat. Later he was getting pounded and when Carson asked him what he was thinking then Forman replied, 'All I was thinking was that the money was in the bank'. Laughed so hard I almost... Well you know.

See I've come late to the party, and its not losing that will bother me, its failing my opponent that will.

TBH I am looking for a certain type of game too. One that is a total 'what if' so to speak, and the way the game is set up I have most of it already. That's why Japan has all these options in the game, its a 'what if'. What if Japan had taken searches more seriously? Game let's me do that. What if Japan took ASW in a more realistic light for her? Game let's me do that. What if Japan had the ability to train her pilots better? Game let's me do that. What if Japan could do better to keep up technically with the Allies? Game let's me do that.

Ya know what though, with all that I should still lose, because Japan just didn't have the resources or production to surpass the forces arrayed against her. And TBH that's more or less what every AFB has said here.


< Message edited by rustysi -- 9/25/2018 4:57:13 PM >


_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 22
RE: Political Points (PP). Full price is full price. Or... - 9/14/2018 8:18:32 PM   
rustysi


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quote:

but its the Japanese players ability to go to almost completely undefended locales that they did not historically go to like India and Australia that have Allied players scrambling to buy out units to defend.


But if I do go to these places there's no need for the Allies to buy anything out, I'm on their turf. Yes, these are somewhat further than historical, but I don't believe Japan could go everywhere. Remember I'm talking Scenario 1 here, Japan operated IRL on a shoestring. If the Allies hadn't been so weak she could never have made the gains she did. In Scenario 1 Japan operates in much the same manner, and in game terms that makes the historical gains extremely difficult. Don't forget the opposing player has 20/20 hind-site as well, he knows where I go and why. Take Java for example. You know IRL the whole island surrendered in a week. You don't have any illusion that that will happen in the game do you?

So it swings both ways to a degree.

Who knows, maybe I'm not that good a player, but I've had a tough time against the AI to some degree. Oh, I don't mean with points, I beat the thing consistently on points. But tell me what Allied player is going to throw plane after plane and ship after ship at me so I can build to that total.

At any rate I'm getting a bit off topic here so...



< Message edited by rustysi -- 9/14/2018 8:21:53 PM >


_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 23
RE: Political Points (PP). Full price is full price. Or... - 9/14/2018 8:24:30 PM   
rustysi


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Understand Hans I look for your point of view as well, and others of course. It helps keep me 'centered', so to speak.

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 24
RE: Political Points (PP). Full price is full price. Or... - 9/14/2018 8:27:37 PM   
rustysi


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quote:

By the time you should be hitting PM the Allies haven't accrued enough points to buy out a single restricted American division let alone sufficient time to get it there.


Yeah, I'm a bit slow, in more ways than one, so...

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to rustysi)
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RE: Political Points (PP). Full price is full price. Or... - 9/15/2018 12:27:26 AM   
Bullwinkle58


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Hans was in the right of it. There's no free lunch. If (and you don't) you had a restricted Allied ID at 50% TOE fill-out and you bought it for 50% PP versus its 100% cost, you gain the "time" on the PP earn-out, but you get a 50% power ID. Incidentally, with pre-war 1941 devices, which are crap.

The Allied PP budget of 50/day in stock is too low already. Japan starts with 500; the Allies zero. And by 1944 the Allies are still getting full IDs arrive assigned to WC command, with a circa 3000 PP buy-out. As well as B-29 squadrons with COs in the 20 on Air. If you add on paying PPs to cross borders your proposal would hamstring the Allied effort until well into 1943, given low-fill device pools that cannot be accelerated as Japan can with Arms and Veh point production investments.

My POV.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 9/15/2018 12:28:51 AM >


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The Moose

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RE: Political Points (PP). Full price is full price. Or... - 9/15/2018 1:19:36 AM   
mind_messing

 

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The PP system simply wasn't fully fleshed out. It was a nice notion, that could have made a better "comeback mechanic" than the emergency reinforcements, but it has too many sources drawing from it to be an effective gameplay mechanic. Separating the points needed to change leaders and to move units between commands would have been a good step, as it would still have made nice dilemmas for the early war (do I replace Percival or all the USN sub captains?) without being silly (Percival costs as many PP's as a British brigade).

At least that way there would be a given capita of points for buying out units vs leaders, and no a continual drain.

On the subject of house rules, they're a crutch. The game engine has quibles, and you'll learn more working with them than attempting to write house rules as a work around. I suspect there's a large percentage of players that wouldn't know how to counter stratosweeps, or how to make an effective night time CAP or any number of issues that are normally house ruled out of the game. The war won't be won or lost because there's Jakes on I-boats, or USN squadrons on British carriers. Throw away the rules, you'll have fun.

If you were to have a house rule for every time the game threw a wobbler, you'd have a document bigger than the game manual.

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
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RE: Political Points (PP). Full price is full price. Or... - 9/15/2018 4:55:42 AM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

The PP system simply wasn't fully fleshed out. It was a nice notion, that could have made a better "comeback mechanic" than the emergency reinforcements, but it has too many sources drawing from it to be an effective gameplay mechanic. Separating the points needed to change leaders and to move units between commands would have been a good step, as it would still have made nice dilemmas for the early war (do I replace Percival or all the USN sub captains?) without being silly (Percival costs as many PP's as a British brigade).

At least that way there would be a given capita of points for buying out units vs leaders, and no a continual drain.




I agree the PP system is a blunt force tool. There are many ways it could be improved, but the primary wish of mine is for it to ramp up over time for the Allies. If it really is "political" points then the daily ration should not be the same on 12/8/41 as 1/1/45. And assigning leaders, as you say more or less, should not involve the same type of decision as changing a major HQ's chain of command.

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RE: Political Points (PP). Full price is full price. Or... - 9/15/2018 7:27:47 AM   
Yaab


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

So here's something I've been pondering (crap not again).

In my current AI game I've set it as such, my own HR. Easy to do against the AI. What's that you say? No unit may be brought out with less than a 90/xxx level of ready devices. Simply, it must be 90% ready devices to be brought out. Not too difficult when talking about the Japanese, but I don't get those 'free' units that may be really reduced in China. It slows the pace a bit, which is what I'm looking for.

So, I'm thinking this will be another () HR for a PBEM game, because well full price is full price. Now that's easy to say, but is it fair to the Allies? Or is it too restrictive? My intention is to slow the pace of the game a bit, not to break it. I have little knowledge as to how many Allied units may need to be brought out, what their initial strength is when 'placed' on map (therefore affecting their cost), or how quickly they may get to full strength given device availability.

So I'm seeking input from the forum. What do you think, and try not to answer from the perspective of whether you like such a restriction, but from a point of fairness. Maybe the level is too high. If so what should it be, 80%, 50%? I don't want to make it such that the Allies can't get their actual OOB to the front. I just don't want it all there in '42. Unless it was there in the first place. Also, maybe the levels should be different for the two sides. Maybe 90% is OK for Japan, and say 75% for the Allies. Don't abuse that recommendation.

I do have a few units in mind that would be exceptions. For example the US 41 ID. In the original release it was unrestricted. For whatever reason the Dev's changed this, and said they gave the PP's back elsewhere. OK, so I don't want this unit to cost the Allies any more than it should, so buy it out at any level of completeness. Another example would be the units in China that were 'withdrawn' to Burma. Any that need to be brought out could be done at any level. They were after all essentially 'rebuilt' in Burma/India, and from a cursory look there aren't that many that could/have to be brought out anyway. Some of those units are unrestricted to begin with.

The point is to just slow things a bit for both sides. The initial expansion, and the subsequent reconquest. Or am I fiddling where none is needed? Is this way off the mark? Its difficult to know what the DEV's intended here and I'm not a mind reader. Not only that I get that this facet of the game may not have been fully tweaked before release, but it is with us. So I'm looking for a bit more insight (if possible) into the PP subsystem of the game. All help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance for your input.




As for the 41st Division and PPs, check the posts 29 and 30 here
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2241404&mpage=1&key=

(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 29
RE: Political Points (PP). Full price is full price. Or... - 9/15/2018 7:43:56 AM   
LargeSlowTarget


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If you buy two units now at 50% instead of one later at 100% for the same PP price, you have two unrestricted divisions once they reach 100% instead of one. So can steamroll Japan back towards the home islands more effectively and thus faster - and that was the point the OP tried to make about the pace of the game. Btw he asks for the same rule be applied for Japan, which impacts the use of destroyed units repurchased which arrive restricted. So the proposed HR impacts both sides - no need to cry "foul play" - and may slow down the fast-paced game.
Fully agree though that the PP system could be improved. It does not reflect reality - even unrestricted units were not free to go where the player wants IRL. In my current PBEM my opponent is using Australian, Canadian, US Army and even Marines plus the entire US carrier fleet and sizeable US surface assets in the Indian Ocean and Burma in his counterattack. As a result I will lose Palembang in 02/1944. IRL the US government was strongly opposed to the use of US assets to reconquer the colonial possessions of their Allies, so the use of massed US assets in the IO is pretty unrealistic, no matter how many PPs the Allied player has spent. When I play Allies, I use a self-imposed HR of not using US assets in the IO other than those assigned to the CBI in the OOB.
There is nothing wrong with using HRs. They are not intended to tie hands but to add some realism, which IMO isn't a bad thing in a history game. If someone wants a game with HRs he just needs to find an opponent with the same mindset. Same if you want a "no restrictions" game.

< Message edited by LargeSlowTarget -- 9/15/2018 8:01:27 AM >


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