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Mushrooms over Maizuru: Chickenboy (J) vs. AcePylut (A)

 
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Mushrooms over Maizuru: Chickenboy (J) vs. AcePylut (A) - 9/10/2018 2:06:03 AM   
AcePylut


Posts: 1389
Joined: 3/19/2004
Status: offline

Throwing my hat into the ring again... a few months ago I whined a bit about all my games ending in '42 by the sudden Japanese disappearance. Chickenboy Pm'ed me about it - we chatted a bit and said "lets have a go at it if you can wait a few months". As he's got a good forum rep we decided to have a go at it and the few months allowed me to get in a match of Empire Total War (United Provinces, I pwned the world) and put wayyyy too many hours into PUBG.

Chickenboy (Andre) will be the hated Japanese, I will be the glorious Allies in a Scen 2 match.

Advanced weather OFF
PDU "on"
Reliable torps "off"
Damage Control "on".... i.e. the usual settings.
Randomized replacements (+/- 15 days)

I'm looking forward to it. As I think about all the matches I've played, I've gotten more and more "early aggressive". 10 years ago, I was Sir Robin. In the last match, I was throwing my CV's into the fray 3-4 times by the end of Jan, '42. I do not know how this will play out.... as Andre is a different opponent and it will take me some time to get a feel on how well he supports the IJ Expansion phase. My CV's will be "in theater" and will seek opportunities to inflict damage... but I will try to avoid a CV-CV clash until I have parity or at least a localized superiority. In his words, "In the unlikely event that AV occurs on January 1, 1943, we can play through."



My goal for this game is as follows: Drop a nuke on Japan. I've been wanting to do this since the game was released 10+ years ago. I'm hoping this will be the match.


We discussed HR's and have come up with the following:

Day 1 HR's:

My opponent decries the use of the 'magic move' to land on the Southern Malay peninsula on the first turn. He's sandboxed the landing of a division and a half on JAVA on turn one. It can be done. In exchange, he asks that I forego any "Fortress Palembang" effort to stack Palembang with engineers and infantry divisions so as to damage it unrealistically during its capture and use produced supply to feed an army. That's a fair request.

He mentioned that he's going after Manila in turn 1. He asked if I was going to move Force Z out of the way on turn 1, and if so, he'd like to re-order his Netties. That's a fair request as Force Z didn't make it's move up the coast until Dec 10th. I stated that I will move Force Z out of range of his Saigon Netties for turn 1. There won't be any Houston, Boise, Lex, or Ent hunting on turn 1.

Game HR's:

1. No singleton or group xAKL/xAK or other non-military ship picket or use of these ships as singletons or en masse to sponge off naval or air sorties. Single ship YP, PB, AMc, DD, PC, etc. pickets are ok. Using a convoy of xAKs as 'bait' to lure enemy into a snare, but not throwing a bunch of them into the fray to act as sortie sponges, is ok.

2. Pay "premium" PPs to change units to unrestricted commands. No 'discount' PP charges by merely changing the unit HQs and getting all attendant units for free.

Aircraft HR's:

For aircraft, max alt of 20k feet until 1944, then in 1944 the max alt is 25k, in 45 it's 30k.

Only manpower attacks on a city at night, and no other night bombing until '44.

No strategic bombing (resources, oil, manpower, etc.) in China until 1944.

Only Naval 4EB can naval attack below 10k feet, no other 4EB can naval attack below 10k.

No issues with the Allies 4EBs carpet-bombing the be-jesus out of Japanese ground troops dumb enough to get caught in open terrain. That's a cross for the IJAAF and IJNAF to figure out a way to bear.


-----

Andre seems to be very open and easygoing. We both seem to be interested in a semi-historical simulation, not an "exploit the game engine" type of game. We will discuss any issues that come up during play and try to come to an agreement. I'm certain that we won't have any issues. The ultimate goal is to "have fun" - and I, for one, am not going to invest thousands of hours into a game and have it fall flat because of a minor disagreement.


I will run an AAR on this game... but not sure what kind or what style I'll do... so it might change up as I figure out "what works best for me."

As of this point: No more ChickenBabyMales allowed in the AAR!


_____________________________

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RE: Mushrooms over Maizuru: Chickenboy (J) vs. AcePylut... - 9/10/2018 3:53:53 AM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24377
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
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Hi AcePylut,

I'm looking forward to the game. You've faithfully recreated the spirit and letter of our discussions re: HRs.

*My goal* in this game is to get you past 1943, so you quit yer whinin' about not getting past 1942. I'm looking forward to an opponent with a different play style and a laid back attitude about the game as well.

I may or may not start an AAR of my own on this match. They are very time consuming and difficult to keep current, I've found. Still, best wishes with yours and here's to an enjoyable game. Cheers, Allied dogs!

_____________________________


(in reply to AcePylut)
Post #: 2
RE: Mushrooms over Maizuru: Chickenboy (J) vs. AcePylut... - 9/10/2018 8:38:54 AM   
Grollub


Posts: 6717
Joined: 10/9/2005
From: Stockholm, Sweden
Status: offline
This looks like exactly the game I would look for. Have fun!


_____________________________

“Not mastering metaphores is like cooking pasta when the train is delayed"

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 3
RE: Mushrooms over Maizuru: Chickenboy (J) vs. AcePylut... - 9/10/2018 12:29:38 PM   
T Rav

 

Posts: 247
Joined: 5/29/2004
Status: offline
Looking forward to a good match.

(in reply to Grollub)
Post #: 4
RE: Mushrooms over Maizuru: Chickenboy (J) vs. AcePylut... - 9/10/2018 1:42:57 PM   
dave sindel

 

Posts: 488
Joined: 3/13/2006
From: Millersburg, OH
Status: offline
Good luck to both of you !

(in reply to T Rav)
Post #: 5
RE: Mushrooms over Maizuru: Chickenboy (J) vs. AcePylut... - 9/10/2018 2:38:08 PM   
Mark VII


Posts: 1806
Joined: 8/11/2003
From: Brentwood,TN
Status: offline
Great title Ace, looking forward to the Allied adventures.

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Post #: 6
RE: Mushrooms over Maizuru: Chickenboy (J) vs. AcePylut... - 9/10/2018 3:53:48 PM   
obvert


Posts: 12327
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

Aircraft HR's:

For aircraft, max alt of 20k feet until 1944, then in 1944 the max alt is 25k, in 45 it's 30k.


A few things to note on these:

1. You don't need them

2. They don't work (Your planes will climb regardless of settings and that still gives advantage to the higher and better climbers. With radar in hex this will be a big advantage for the defender. I've played the rules and Japan gets a big push from them after 42, which will increase with better 2nd and 3rd generation airframes).

3. This also limits the strike parameters that were quite available to many bombers very early in the war. To stretch a CAP it's sometimes very useful to have high and low strikes, and this is a valid tactic.

Having altitude restrictions will be more finicky and you'll still have dive problems, mostly though with the CAP climbing and nailing lower sweeps.


_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Mark VII)
Post #: 7
RE: Mushrooms over Maizuru: Chickenboy (J) vs. AcePylut... - 9/10/2018 5:20:07 PM   
AcePylut


Posts: 1389
Joined: 3/19/2004
Status: offline
How do you work it so it can’t be “gamed”? No alt restrictions at all? Without them, then you get Oscar Ia sweeps at 42k feet in Dec 41 and to me, that's just silly.

It was discussed that the max alt should be the “2nd Maneuver band” for that aircraft… but to me that just adds another exponential level of mouse-clicks and I know I will forget to do so many, many, many times.

We don’t want to game the air engine any more than it can already be gamed. Not sure of the best solution but I’m all ears.


_____________________________


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Post #: 8
RE: Mushrooms over Maizuru: Chickenboy (J) vs. AcePylut... - 9/10/2018 6:13:17 PM   
BillBrown


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Joined: 6/15/2002
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In my opinion you do not need them. I would not worry about Oscar sweeps at 42K, just put your highest durability fighter somewhat below it and then your best air-2-air fighter just below that.
Do not forget to train, train, and train some more. You need to get the defense rating of your high durability fighter pilots to at least 70 along with air-2-air rating to 70.

< Message edited by BillBrown -- 9/10/2018 6:15:13 PM >

(in reply to AcePylut)
Post #: 9
RE: Mushrooms over Maizuru: Chickenboy (J) vs. AcePylut... - 9/10/2018 7:38:59 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11298
Joined: 2/24/2009
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My position on HRs is well known, but as far as altitudes go, what everybody else said. I would add that it is not necessary, and never has been, to try to defend against Japanese sweeps at any time, especially early with Hurricanes et al. Let him burn up supply, ops losses, and fatigue sweeping empty air. If the sweeps are a precursor to 2E bombing, deploy your limited AA properly, build forts to hide in, and wait for better days. Putting up Hurricanes against 42K Oscars is just a VP gift, especially if it's done every day.

It is VERY hard to not hit back, but sometimes you have to bite it and wait for 1943.

_____________________________

The Moose

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Post #: 10
RE: Mushrooms over Maizuru: Chickenboy (J) vs. AcePylut... - 9/10/2018 7:41:10 PM   
AcePylut


Posts: 1389
Joined: 3/19/2004
Status: offline
As noted, Mr. Andre has indicated he will whack Manila. If this is true, (and it should be, for psychological warfare reasons I’ll detail in a bit), I believe it’s a mistake. I believe it’s a mistake for the following reasons.

I believe that the reason most folks want to kill Manila is to get a bead on those subs parked there. As I’m at work, I’m guessing, but I believe there’s around 25 or so subs in Manila. In all the Manila strikes I’ve sandboxed, and all the “in game” strikes, the allies have lost on average 10-15 subs. Losing 10-15 subs, for the allies… it’s “pfft”. Nothing.

With non-working torps until ‘43, the US sub command is more of an annoyance than a real threat… (yes there are those “holy cow” moments, but all in all, there are far more “dang I nailed the Akagi but no explosion, go figure” moments)… and by the time ’43 rolls around, I’ll have enough subs that the loss of 8-10 of them won’t even be noticed.

The rest of the ships at Manila? A pair of IJ CA tfs parked outside Bataan is enough to make short work of anything trying to break through before the IJ bombs Manila into submission from their soon-to-be-established airfields in the PI. I look at all those surface ships as losses, and anything I can get to safety is just bonus. Nothing in Manila on Dec 7th is really all that important. That doesn’t mean I’m not going to try and save every last ship, but it does mean that if I lose them, I’m not going to sweat it --- and , one of the joys of the Allied early game is to “see” how many ships one can get away.

So that leaves the Manila Airforce. I’m not sure if Chickenboy will detail anything to strike the airforce… but if he does, what am I losing? A bunch of worthless obsolete airframes for the most part.

----

It is my humble opinion, that the most important early war asset for the Allies is their long range search aircraft: The Catalinas and the B17’s. These planes are worth 10 times their weight in VP. It comes down to a Sun Tzu, as always:

“Those who do not know the conditions of mountains and forests, hazardous defiles, marshes, and swamps, cannot conduct the march of an army.”

“Hence that general is skillful in attack whose opponent does not know what to defend; and he is skillful in defense whose opponent does not know what to attack.”

“The general who wins the battle makes many calculations in his temple before the battle is fought. The general who loses makes but few calculations beforehand.”

Put simply, I need to know where the enemy is to properly use my available assets to their maximum effect at minimal loss. I need long range planes to know where they are at the earliest possible moment so I can add or subtract forces to an estimated attack vector. Going after Pearl Harbors airport puts a very serious dent into that long range aircraft. I don’t want to lose 20-30-40 long range planes and I would if PH was targeted.

Also – one other reason - this game is about points. Dec 7, 8, and 9th are days which Japan could seriously bank some points. I would (and have) target PH on multiple days until I sank enough BB’s that I was “happy”. Those 8 PH BB’s will be wonderful mid to late war amphib battlewagons. I’ll enjoy watching them cycle in an out of a target, while the fast BB’s are babysitting CV fleets. Yes those 10-15 Subs may, in the long run, garner a good amount of points, but if the IJ plays it right, I don’t believe they will make as much of a difference as once believed (and now is the time when everyone tells me about their success of that Manila based sub sinking the Yamato in Feb ’42 haha).

So this leads into my first strategic goal: Layered recon across the South Pacific. I intend to use those AVP, AV’s, and AVD’s at various “worthless” islands across the Pacific to base long range search planes. With the planes available from a non-PH strike, I can stagger multiple interlocking layers, rather than having all the air groups in “one line of island from Oz to PH”. This will help to avoid any “oh crap I can’t believe his CV’s showed up here!” moments. Or at least, I hope.

Now, going back to the first paragraph – Andre said he was going to whack Manila. In the area of psychological warfare, it is imperative for him to do so. If he does not, then he has established that anything he says is “bunk and not to be trusted”… before the game even starts. He will spend the rest of the war saying “I’m going here and doing this” and all it will be is wasted keystrokes, even he is “honest” the rest of the match.

I believe that being “honest” a great majority of the time is necessary for that “game breaking” moment when you are “not honest”. I intent to spend the entire 1942 being honest about my force disposition… even if there is no possible way he could know if I’m lying or not. The goal is to work the psychology such that when I say something, he believes it. Then, when the time comes, I will say be able to say something with some credibility that will be nothing more than a diversion. Once I use that diversion, however, then I will have lost the “honesty” trump card, so it must be used wisely, at a critical juncture in the game.


< Message edited by AcePylut -- 9/10/2018 7:44:18 PM >


_____________________________


(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 11
RE: Mushrooms over Maizuru: Chickenboy (J) vs. AcePylut... - 9/10/2018 8:05:28 PM   
Lecivius


Posts: 5852
Joined: 8/5/2007
From: Denver
Status: offline
You are one sneaky bug.


I like that

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If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

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Post #: 12
RE: Mushrooms over Maizuru: Chickenboy (J) vs. AcePylut... - 9/10/2018 8:43:45 PM   
modrow

 

Posts: 1073
Joined: 8/27/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

Aircraft HR's:

For aircraft, max alt of 20k feet until 1944, then in 1944 the max alt is 25k, in 45 it's 30k.


A few things to note on these:

1. You don't need them

2. They don't work (Your planes will climb regardless of settings and that still gives advantage to the higher and better climbers. With radar in hex this will be a big advantage for the defender. I've played the rules and Japan gets a big push from them after 42, which will increase with better 2nd and 3rd generation airframes).

3. This also limits the strike parameters that were quite available to many bombers very early in the war. To stretch a CAP it's sometimes very useful to have high and low strikes, and this is a valid tactic.

Having altitude restrictions will be more finicky and you'll still have dive problems, mostly though with the CAP climbing and nailing lower sweeps.



Here's the first hijack of this thread

I am aware of the detailed analysis that has led to low layered CAP setup (one actual reference for those who may read it is on Miller vs Mr Kane AAR). My preliminary impression (without extensive testing) is, however, that the success of this setup is dependent on climb rates. Can you comment on that, obvert? Thanks !

Hartwig

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 13
RE: Mushrooms over Maizuru: Chickenboy (J) vs. AcePylut... - 9/10/2018 9:02:08 PM   
modrow

 

Posts: 1073
Joined: 8/27/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AcePylut

As noted, Mr. Andre has indicated he will whack Manila. If this is true, (and it should be, for psychological warfare reasons I’ll detail in a bit), I believe it’s a mistake. I believe it’s a mistake for the following reasons.

I believe that the reason most folks want to kill Manila is to get a bead on those subs parked there. As I’m at work, I’m guessing, but I believe there’s around 25 or so subs in Manila. In all the Manila strikes I’ve sandboxed, and all the “in game” strikes, the allies have lost on average 10-15 subs. Losing 10-15 subs, for the allies… it’s “pfft”. Nothing.

With non-working torps until ‘43, the US sub command is more of an annoyance than a real threat… (yes there are those “holy cow” moments, but all in all, there are far more “dang I nailed the Akagi but no explosion, go figure” moments)… and by the time ’43 rolls around, I’ll have enough subs that the loss of 8-10 of them won’t even be noticed.

The rest of the ships at Manila? A pair of IJ CA tfs parked outside Bataan is enough to make short work of anything trying to break through before the IJ bombs Manila into submission from their soon-to-be-established airfields in the PI. I look at all those surface ships as losses, and anything I can get to safety is just bonus. Nothing in Manila on Dec 7th is really all that important. That doesn’t mean I’m not going to try and save every last ship, but it does mean that if I lose them, I’m not going to sweat it --- and , one of the joys of the Allied early game is to “see” how many ships one can get away.

So that leaves the Manila Airforce. I’m not sure if Chickenboy will detail anything to strike the airforce… but if he does, what am I losing? A bunch of worthless obsolete airframes for the most part.

----

It is my humble opinion, that the most important early war asset for the Allies is their long range search aircraft: The Catalinas and the B17’s. These planes are worth 10 times their weight in VP. It comes down to a Sun Tzu, as always:

“Those who do not know the conditions of mountains and forests, hazardous defiles, marshes, and swamps, cannot conduct the march of an army.”

“Hence that general is skillful in attack whose opponent does not know what to defend; and he is skillful in defense whose opponent does not know what to attack.”

“The general who wins the battle makes many calculations in his temple before the battle is fought. The general who loses makes but few calculations beforehand.”

Put simply, I need to know where the enemy is to properly use my available assets to their maximum effect at minimal loss. I need long range planes to know where they are at the earliest possible moment so I can add or subtract forces to an estimated attack vector. Going after Pearl Harbors airport puts a very serious dent into that long range aircraft. I don’t want to lose 20-30-40 long range planes and I would if PH was targeted.

Also – one other reason - this game is about points. Dec 7, 8, and 9th are days which Japan could seriously bank some points. I would (and have) target PH on multiple days until I sank enough BB’s that I was “happy”. Those 8 PH BB’s will be wonderful mid to late war amphib battlewagons. I’ll enjoy watching them cycle in an out of a target, while the fast BB’s are babysitting CV fleets. Yes those 10-15 Subs may, in the long run, garner a good amount of points, but if the IJ plays it right, I don’t believe they will make as much of a difference as once believed (and now is the time when everyone tells me about their success of that Manila based sub sinking the Yamato in Feb ’42 haha).

So this leads into my first strategic goal: Layered recon across the South Pacific. I intend to use those AVP, AV’s, and AVD’s at various “worthless” islands across the Pacific to base long range search planes. With the planes available from a non-PH strike, I can stagger multiple interlocking layers, rather than having all the air groups in “one line of island from Oz to PH”. This will help to avoid any “oh crap I can’t believe his CV’s showed up here!” moments. Or at least, I hope.

Now, going back to the first paragraph – Andre said he was going to whack Manila. In the area of psychological warfare, it is imperative for him to do so. If he does not, then he has established that anything he says is “bunk and not to be trusted”… before the game even starts. He will spend the rest of the war saying “I’m going here and doing this” and all it will be is wasted keystrokes, even he is “honest” the rest of the match.

I believe that being “honest” a great majority of the time is necessary for that “game breaking” moment when you are “not honest”. I intent to spend the entire 1942 being honest about my force disposition… even if there is no possible way he could know if I’m lying or not. The goal is to work the psychology such that when I say something, he believes it. Then, when the time comes, I will say be able to say something with some credibility that will be nothing more than a diversion. Once I use that diversion, however, then I will have lost the “honesty” trump card, so it must be used wisely, at a critical juncture in the game.



Interesting analysis. Just two comments:

1) I agree to many tactical aspects of your analysis. But KB is more than a tactical asset. For me, the key question is what benefits you can derive from the presence of KB a) near PH and b) near the PI. I think the latter is a much better starting position for KB. Fuel availability typically restrains the possibility for Allied to use heavy naval assets in early war, so damaged BB may not give you a real edge over non-damaged BB. You need to be sure to be able to sink those BB to really profit IMO.

2) Re. honesty - you count on a mistake of your opponent here (accepting any communication from you as honest).

Just my 2cts.

Hartwig

(in reply to AcePylut)
Post #: 14
RE: Mushrooms over Maizuru: Chickenboy (J) vs. AcePylut... - 9/10/2018 9:30:03 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 5185
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline
quote:

Not sure of the best solution but I’m all ears.


I don't know if the limits on altitude are necessary or not as I've never played a PBEM game, but I would suggest that the limits apply only to 'Sweeps' and nothing else. Bomb at any height, same with CAP. As for CAP, remember if he's too high he could miss something, and it takes too much time in many instances to get that high, so...

Just MHO.

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to modrow)
Post #: 15
RE: Mushrooms over Maizuru: Chickenboy (J) vs. AcePylut... - 9/10/2018 10:02:26 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 5185
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline
OK, I'll probably follow this AAR even though its Scen2 and I've only played Scen1, and probably will only play Scen1. However if Andre does start an AAR I'll most likely follow from that side. Not that I don't appreciate your efforts or style, but I don't want to slip up and give away op-sec.

That said, I agree that his decision to attack Manila is the better choice as he now has the KB where he really needs it. Near the SRA. This is the area he needs to take and with the 660lb gorilla in the room he'll be able to move rather more quickly through the region.

quote:

I believe that being “honest” a great majority of the time is necessary for that “game breaking” moment when you are “not honest”. I intent to spend the entire 1942 being honest about my force disposition… even if there is no possible way he could know if I’m lying or not. The goal is to work the psychology such that when I say something, he believes it. Then, when the time comes, I will say be able to say something with some credibility that will be nothing more than a diversion. Once I use that diversion, however, then I will have lost the “honesty” trump card, so it must be used wisely, at a critical juncture in the game.


Hehehe.

Just look at my avatar. You may not understand it, but for me I can neither confirm, nor deny anything. I used to be in the USASA, the ASA stands for..., well not that one, but Army Security Agency. Military branch of the NSA, or National Security Agency. Better known as the No Such Agency, well at least it used to be. At any rate quite a few of the things they drilled into my skull remained to one degree or another. Op-Sec being one. So I don't see me discussing too much with my opponent... Again, that's just me.

Some of you may scoff at things like I said above, but there was a gentleman who worked in Ultra back in the day. In the early '80's he decided to write a book on the matter. Long story short the men in black showed up at his door. His book was removed from the shelves and print, at least at the time. In addition he lost his job in the government. The only thing that kept him out of jail was the fact that the book dealt with methods of cryptology and it was not illegal to talk, or write about that. Now he was at a bunch of pay-grades above me, but lessons learned.

Yes, a lot of that is said tongue in cheek, and in response to the ops 'honesty'.

< Message edited by rustysi -- 9/10/2018 10:11:00 PM >


_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 16
RE: Mushrooms over Maizuru: Chickenboy (J) vs. AcePylut... - 9/10/2018 10:33:28 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 5185
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline
Now, I say let the clubbing begin.

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 17
RE: Mushrooms over Maizuru: Chickenboy (J) vs. AcePylut... - 9/10/2018 10:37:21 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 5185
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline
quote:

It is VERY hard to not hit back, but sometimes you have to bite it and wait for 1943.


I often find "The Mooses'" prose rather amusing. Then again its normally very poignant.

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 18
RE: Mushrooms over Maizuru: Chickenboy (J) vs. AcePylut... - 9/10/2018 10:43:38 PM   
AcePylut


Posts: 1389
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Status: offline
Food for thought - if you for 100% certainty know that the KB and Mini-KB are in the DEI - what opportunities does that open for the Allies, elsewhere? :) If the IJ attacks PH - it takes "how many days" to get it over to the DEI? 7-10?

IMHO - it gets it there soon enough to cover all the "2nd wave" invasion that need covering, as the "1st Wave" invasions will have captured airfields that support "some" of the "2nd Wave" invasions... so I don't really see the IJ gaining much too much time by having the KB in the DEI on Turn 1.

The limiting factor is how quickly the IJN can load up invasion transports and move them to positions outside of the already established Dec 7th airfields and newly captured Dec 8th AF's.

This turn won't be run until next weekend at the earliest as my opponent is on vacation with his wifey-wife. We discussed "not giving any orders" on Turn 1 for the Allies, but given this week, we agreed that I could give orders to units in the far rear areas. I.e. I can start moving troops and ships around on the West Coast, I can go through my rear bases and build or not build, etc.

< Message edited by AcePylut -- 9/11/2018 3:39:46 AM >


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RE: Mushrooms over Maizuru: Chickenboy (J) vs. AcePylut... - 9/11/2018 5:04:52 AM   
modrow

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AcePylut

Food for thought - if you for 100% certainty know that the KB and Mini-KB are in the DEI - what opportunities does that open for the Allies, elsewhere? :) If the IJ attacks PH - it takes "how many days" to get it over to the DEI? 7-10?



Yes, that is a good question. I guess your AAR will illustrate those opportunities, their exploit and the long term consequences if the Manila strike turns out to be real.

And the opportunities lost when KB does not strike at Pearl, because of course the knowledge that KB is at A (e.g. PH) and Mini KB at B (e.g. DEI) always opens opportunities for the Allies elsewhere, doesn't it ?

I just think from a starting position suitable to hit Manila KB is closer to many locations of interest than from a starting position hitting Pearl (including, e.g. the Solomons). What IJ can make of that is a question of the individual strategy pursued by IJ player.

So, back to the comfort of the peanut gallery

Hartwig



< Message edited by modrow -- 9/11/2018 5:05:12 AM >

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RE: Mushrooms over Maizuru: Chickenboy (J) vs. AcePylut... - 9/11/2018 2:34:32 PM   
AcePylut


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Heya all don't get too worked up that I'm going to go all "try to invade everywhere and smash everything". Like I said, I'll strike if an opportunity presents itself, but if one doesn't, then I won't, and the aar will be boring.

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RE: Mushrooms over Maizuru: Chickenboy (J) vs. AcePylut... - 9/12/2018 1:56:00 AM   
Bif1961


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I will be following this battle closely as two accomplished players and gentleman are involved.

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RE: Mushrooms over Maizuru: Chickenboy (J) vs. AcePylut... - 9/12/2018 7:02:04 PM   
rustysi


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quote:

Food for thought - if you for 100% certainty know that the KB and Mini-KB are in the DEI - what opportunities does that open for the Allies, elsewhere?


Yeah, its a question loaded with questions.

But... You have about 5-6 days from the PI for him to get back east. From the DEI about 7-8. So what mischief can you get to while the cats' away.

One thing to keep in mind is he has one Nettie group in the area, but I think only Truk is a level 4 AF. That means torps only from that base, if he has a unit there that'll supply torps. I honestly forget. Check the area to be sure. Don't think his aircraft are trained in lowNav so any bombing will be from high level and its not that effective. With your CAP you should be able to push through without too much danger. In addition to that his fighter strength in the area is little to none, IIRC. It'll take him some days to hop anything down from Japan proper.

So where do you go? TBH I don't like the idea of going back to Pearl anyway, as Japan has a HUGE number of subs surrounding the base. With the gorilla looking elsewhere, you could probably stop the Wake invasion. Get your CV's together and head over there, but keep in mind his Nettie group is in range, so hang off a bit.

Another option if you fear not the Netties, is to head for the Marshall/Gilbert Island area. He's got some convoys headed that way for the expansion. These are weak and unsupported. If I were him I would withdraw all just in case my opponent got frisky. At any rate you'll delay his expansion.

Another option is to head to the Solomon Islands. You may even have the ability to defend Rabaul. From this area you may even have better support, don't know the fuel situation for the Allies in the region, so that's on you.

So, just a few ideas for you to mull about your brain basket. Hope you have fun.

Edit: TBH, now that I say all this out loud its the reason I prefer to go after Pearl in the first place.

< Message edited by rustysi -- 9/12/2018 7:09:34 PM >


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(in reply to Bif1961)
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RE: Mushrooms over Maizuru: Chickenboy (J) vs. AcePylut... - 9/12/2018 7:16:40 PM   
Zorch

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bif1961

I will be following this battle closely as two accomplished players and gentleman are involved.

3 if you count CB twice.
Or 1 if deduct a point for CB's known proclivities.

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RE: Mushrooms over Maizuru: Chickenboy (J) vs. AcePylut... - 9/12/2018 8:31:34 PM   
AcePylut


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Those, I don't know (and please don't tell me). Time to read anything and everything he's done :)

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RE: Mushrooms over Maizuru: Chickenboy (J) vs. AcePylut... - 9/13/2018 4:54:00 AM   
CharlieVane


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Good like in your fight against Poultry Lad. I'll keep an eye on this.

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RE: Mushrooms over Maizuru: Chickenboy (J) vs. AcePylut... - 9/22/2018 4:00:04 PM   
warspite1


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Any update on this - is it still in progress?

Thanks

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RE: Mushrooms over Maizuru: Chickenboy (J) vs. AcePylut... - 9/23/2018 1:24:56 AM   
AcePylut


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Yes it's in progress - but still cranking through the first turn which, as you know, takes forever and a day.

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RE: Mushrooms over Maizuru: Chickenboy (J) vs. AcePylut... - 9/23/2018 5:01:09 AM   
AcePylut


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Here's the disposition of forces on Dec 8th. The KB is a couple hexes east of Manila. The "Baby KB" (it will upgrade to the Mini-KB when it gets its full compliment of itty bitty CV's) is a few hexes east of Cebu. Boise and Houston are a few hexes West of Cebu. Force Z will make a run to Batavia to fuel up, optimize the ships and see to engage if the opportunity exists. I suspect the KB will rotate south to provide air cover, as anything north of Brunei can get air cover from Malaysia and Vietnam.




Attachment (1)

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RE: Mushrooms over Maizuru: Chickenboy (J) vs. AcePylut... - 9/23/2018 5:04:37 AM   
AcePylut


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Manila got hit by everything Chickenboy could throw at it. HongKong and Rangoon were also hit. There were no airfield attacks, so most of my airforce across the map is pretty intact. 19 subs were lost at Manila. Here are the total ship losses.

DD Pope sinks in port
AM Quail sinks in port
xAKL Bisayas sinks in port
xAKL Princess of Negros sinks in port
xAK Chilka sinks in port
xAK Fatshan sinks in port
xAKL Joan Moller sinks in port
xAK Mundra sinks in port
xAK Nanning sinks in port
xAKL Soochow sinks in port
xAK Haraldsvang sinks in port
xAK Hai Lee sinks in port
PG Asheville sinks in port
AM Lark sinks in port
AV Langley sinks in port
xAKL Kanchow sinks in port
xAKL Montanes sinks in port
Loss of SS Porpoise on Dec 07, 1941 is admitted
Loss of SS Pickerel on Dec 07, 1941 is admitted
Loss of SS Salmon on Dec 07, 1941 is admitted
Loss of SS Seal on Dec 07, 1941 is admitted
Loss of SS Skipjack on Dec 07, 1941 is admitted
Loss of SS Snapper on Dec 07, 1941 is admitted
Loss of SS Stingray on Dec 07, 1941 is admitted
Loss of SS Sturgeon on Dec 07, 1941 is admitted
Loss of SS Saury on Dec 07, 1941 is admitted
Loss of SS Spearfish on Dec 07, 1941 is admitted
Loss of SS Sculpin on Dec 07, 1941 is admitted
Loss of SS Sailfish on Dec 07, 1941 is admitted
Loss of SS Swordfish on Dec 07, 1941 is admitted
Loss of SS Seadragon on Dec 07, 1941 is admitted
Loss of SS Searaven on Dec 07, 1941 is admitted
Loss of SS S-37 on Dec 07, 1941 is admitted
Loss of SS S-38 on Dec 07, 1941 is admitted
Loss of SS S-40 on Dec 07, 1941 is admitted
Loss of SS S-41 on Dec 07, 1941 is admitted
Loss of PT-41 on Dec 07, 1941 is admitted

< Message edited by AcePylut -- 9/23/2018 3:03:13 PM >


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