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Russian warship tracked down US nuclear sub - 8/10/2018 3:45:36 PM   
MakeeLearn

 

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"Russian warship tracked down, watched 'stealthy' US nuclear sub in Med for hours –


"A Russian warship in the Mediterranean reportedly tracked down and followed a ‘stealthy’ US nuclear-powered submarine. The incident took place in April...

"The frigate Admiral Essen of the Russian Black Sea Fleet managed to track down one of the Ohio-class submarines currently in service with the US Navy, Izvestia newspaper revealed on Friday, citing a source in the Russian Navy..."

"The US Navy hasn’t yet released any comments on the report."


https://www.rt.com/news/435602-russian-ship-us-submarine/






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RE: Russian warship tracked down US nuclear sub - 8/10/2018 3:56:45 PM   
geofflambert


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The Med is too salty for my taste. RT? I suppose at best they could be equivalent to VOA, but not these days. Neither will report all the things that were tracking the Essen.

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RE: Russian warship tracked down US nuclear sub - 8/10/2018 3:58:23 PM   
Lokasenna


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Sounds like it wasn't so stealthy. Something gave away its position.

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RE: Russian warship tracked down US nuclear sub - 8/10/2018 4:46:13 PM   
wegman58

 

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OHIO class were NOT designed for the Med. They were designed to be very quiet in DEEP water off the US coast with 24 Trident missiles.

THEN we had Strategic Arms limitations and converted a few to cruise missile/special forces insertion. But the OHIO class are BIG boats (almost 20,000 tons) and the Med is not very deep. NOT the best choice of locations for an OHIO.

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RE: Russian warship tracked down US nuclear sub - 8/10/2018 5:29:15 PM   
BBfanboy


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My first thought is that Putin ordered the story for propaganda purposes to offset attention to recent US sanctions re: the chemical attacks in Britain. Do we have any reason to believe the story?

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RE: Russian warship tracked down US nuclear sub - 8/10/2018 5:37:15 PM   
Lokasenna


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Oh, I didn't even pay attention to where the link came from.

From RT? Yeah, I'm not believing that at all.

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RE: Russian warship tracked down US nuclear sub - 8/10/2018 7:02:41 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: wegman58

OHIO class were NOT designed for the Med. They were designed to be very quiet in DEEP water off the US coast with 24 Trident missiles.

THEN we had Strategic Arms limitations and converted a few to cruise missile/special forces insertion. But the OHIO class are BIG boats (almost 20,000 tons) and the Med is not very deep. NOT the best choice of locations for an OHIO.


The Med is very deep in places.

There is no reason to have an SLBM-armed sub in the Med; check the ranges to the target packages. If it was the SSGN mod, they might have found her. I doubt it, but stuff happens. OTOH, as others say, consider the source.

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RE: Russian warship tracked down US nuclear sub - 8/10/2018 7:39:20 PM   
rustysi


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quote:

consider the source.


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RE: Russian warship tracked down US nuclear sub - 8/10/2018 8:57:26 PM   
btd64


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Probably a large school of fish ....GP

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RE: Russian warship tracked down US nuclear sub - 8/10/2018 9:38:52 PM   
MakeeLearn

 

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Could it have happen?

Ask the sailors of the destroyer USS Donald Cook.

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RE: Russian warship tracked down US nuclear sub - 8/10/2018 10:37:11 PM   
Chickenboy


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Didn't they retrofit some of the Ohio classes to remove their launch tubes and use them as SOF (i.e., SEAL) insertion platforms?

I can't think of any reason why they would need a Trident-equipped boat anywhere near the Med. With the 8,000 mile range of those puppies, you could bullseye anyplace in Russia from the IO, Pacific or Atlantic.

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RE: Russian warship tracked down US nuclear sub - 8/10/2018 10:38:57 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

My first thought is that Putin ordered the story for propaganda purposes to offset attention to recent US sanctions re: the chemical attacks in Britain. Do we have any reason to believe the story?


That was my first thought too. These days, if it's RT or "Sputnik", or a Kremlin spokesman or a member of their [Kaff-kaff] parliament, I consider that to be state-sponsored-state-enforced media and unworthy of my attention.

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RE: Russian warship tracked down US nuclear sub - 8/10/2018 10:56:32 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Didn't they retrofit some of the Ohio classes to remove their launch tubes and use them as SOF (i.e., SEAL) insertion platforms?

I can't think of any reason why they would need a Trident-equipped boat anywhere near the Med. With the 8,000 mile range of those puppies, you could bullseye anyplace in Russia from the IO, Pacific or Atlantic.


Launch tubes can't be removed as they are part of the pressure hull. Normally, concrete billets are inserted to equal missile weight and preserve buoyancy characteristics. It has been suggested that slide-in gear "trays" might be used by SEALs in 1-2 tubes as required.

The ASDS SEAL delivery system program is essentially defunct after much ballyhoo in the early 2000s. Variety of reasons, but massive cost over-runs never help. The four SSGN Ohio conversions were slated to carry the ASDS, and SEAL berthing and support gear was installed I believe. The USS Jimmy Carter, one of the three Seawolf boats, was also designed to be a special operations support platform. Any of the Virginia class can carry a limited number of SEALs and put them ashore, same as the 688s could.

As for SSBNs, in the later Polaris and through the Poseidon eras, we had a base at Rota, Spain that deployed a squadron into the Med. They were covering the Black Sea area, some of central Asia, some of Eastern Europe--swing an arc and it's easy to see where they aimed. We closed the base in the late 70s or so when ranges grew with the C-4 Trident, and then later the D-5. While it was open it was sweet, sweet duty. Lots of guys re-upped to get a tender billet there.


< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 8/10/2018 10:57:09 PM >


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RE: Russian warship tracked down US nuclear sub - 8/11/2018 3:25:34 PM   
MakeeLearn

 

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"The Scope, Not The Scale of Russian And Chinese Naval Ops In The Atlantic Is Worrisome"

http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/22794/the-scope-not-the-scale-of-russian-and-chinese-naval-ops-in-the-atlantic-is-worrisome

In the past week, there have been several stories about this from different sources.

Also some reports on Russia-Philippines, selling of diesel subs, exchanging ports of call.



< Message edited by MakeeLearn -- 8/11/2018 3:26:08 PM >

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RE: Russian warship tracked down US nuclear sub - 8/12/2018 1:45:21 AM   
U235


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The last place I'd want to be if i were a Russian sailor and hostilities broke out, is in the Mediterranean Sea. Every Russian ship or sub in the Med. would probably be on the bottom the first day of conflict.

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RE: Russian warship tracked down US nuclear sub - 8/12/2018 3:09:50 AM   
Rusty1961

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

"The Scope, Not The Scale of Russian And Chinese Naval Ops In The Atlantic Is Worrisome"

http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/22794/the-scope-not-the-scale-of-russian-and-chinese-naval-ops-in-the-atlantic-is-worrisome

In the past week, there have been several stories about this from different sources.

Also some reports on Russia-Philippines, selling of diesel subs, exchanging ports of call.




War games. Nothing more, nothing less. Both sides do it. We have big games off of Hawaii each year.

It's also budget time to the Navy has to stoke the flames of fear to get more money. Seen it once, seen it a hundred times.

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RE: Russian warship tracked down US nuclear sub - 8/12/2018 12:14:15 PM   
PaxMondo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


quote:

ORIGINAL: wegman58

OHIO class were NOT designed for the Med. They were designed to be very quiet in DEEP water off the US coast with 24 Trident missiles.

THEN we had Strategic Arms limitations and converted a few to cruise missile/special forces insertion. But the OHIO class are BIG boats (almost 20,000 tons) and the Med is not very deep. NOT the best choice of locations for an OHIO.


The Med is very deep in places.

There is no reason to have an SLBM-armed sub in the Med; check the ranges to the target packages. If it was the SSGN mod, they might have found her. I doubt it, but stuff happens. OTOH, as others say, consider the source.

Correct … Hellenic trench is DEEP. Outside of that though, and I haven't sailed the Med much nor in a long time, I don't recall it being 'deep' in many other places. And the Hellenic Trench while deep isn't that big of an area.
Anyway, all moot. As others note, the source is suspicious. Moreso, what an Ohio class was doing in the med? also mentioned by others. Yep, we live in the era of "Fake News' …

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RE: Russian warship tracked down US nuclear sub - 8/12/2018 12:26:12 PM   
ny59giants_MatrixForum


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In 1981, I was on board USS Bowen, FF-1079, out of Charleston. She had just got out of her refit in Brooklyn when I came aboard. Our first deployment was to the Med. We broke many existing records when it came to tracking Soviet subs there, including hours of a diesel sub. Previous record was less than 10 minutes after she submerged. Even had an AO maneuver to refuel us so we didn't have to lose track of SSGN which we didn't. Needless to say, our captain (still a Commander) was promoted to Captain as a result of that cruise. We had two nuke ASROCs in our forward launcher, so those Soviets subs were toast if push came to shove.

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RE: Russian warship tracked down US nuclear sub - 8/12/2018 3:22:58 PM   
rms1pa

 

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naughty NY ..." i can neither confirm or deny the presence of devices onboard." bad, bad boy.

rms/pa

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RE: Russian warship tracked down US nuclear sub - 8/12/2018 4:14:16 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Correct … Hellenic trench is DEEP. Outside of that though, and I haven't sailed the Med much nor in a long time, I don't recall it being 'deep' in many other places. And the Hellenic Trench while deep isn't that big of an area.
Anyway, all moot. As others note, the source is suspicious. Moreso, what an Ohio class was doing in the med? also mentioned by others. Yep, we live in the era of "Fake News' …


Google Machine says max depth is 17,280 feet in the Calypso Deep in the Ionian Sea. But the average depth of the Med is still 4921 feet, which a submariner would judge "deep." No military sub of any nation can use any but a top slice of that. Depth has effects on acoustics, but actual maneuvering room would be plenty with less than half that.

I have been in sub discussions in the past where somebody has said the Med is "just like the Baltic." Umm, no.

The Med is also 1/3 the size of Australia, so there's room to play. From talks with SSN guys who operated there the worst part of the whole deal, outside of avoiding trawler nets, was the run past Gibraltar. It's narrow with strong currents, and in the old days was crowded with subs, not all of them NATO. NATO op orders were coordinated between navies to keep things separated, but Warsaw Pact subs didn't get the memo. It was an interesting few hours.

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RE: Russian warship tracked down US nuclear sub - 8/12/2018 4:26:37 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rms1pa

naughty NY ..." i can neither confirm or deny the presence of devices onboard." bad, bad boy.

rms/pa

Yup.



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RE: Russian warship tracked down US nuclear sub - 8/12/2018 4:58:00 PM   
RangerJoe

 

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quote:

From talks with SSN guys who operated there the worst part of the whole deal, outside of avoiding trawler nets, was the run past Gibraltar.


I think that Das Boot, both the book and the movie, have a good description of trying to run past Gibraltar.

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RE: Russian warship tracked down US nuclear sub - 8/12/2018 5:06:40 PM   
Anachro


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants_MatrixForum
We had two nuke ASROCs in our forward launcher, so those Soviets subs were toast if push came to shove.


Wow, I just looked these bad boys up. Pretty cool stuff and I like the "near certainty" of destroying a target according to the Wiki page, though it seems they've been phased out.

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RE: Russian warship tracked down US nuclear sub - 8/12/2018 5:34:00 PM   
ny59giants_MatrixForum


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Guys, this was in 1981. That's 37 years ago. I told the correct lines for years, but this is not a security risk now like it was back then.

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RE: Russian warship tracked down US nuclear sub - 8/12/2018 7:35:24 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

quote:

From talks with SSN guys who operated there the worst part of the whole deal, outside of avoiding trawler nets, was the run past Gibraltar.


I think that Das Boot, both the book and the movie, have a good description of trying to run past Gibraltar.


In the movie at least my memory is they transited at night on the surface. SSNs go through submerged. Different challenges.

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RE: Russian warship tracked down US nuclear sub - 8/12/2018 7:39:30 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants_MatrixForum

Guys, this was in 1981. That's 37 years ago. I told the correct lines for years, but this is not a security risk now like it was back then.


All tactical nuclear weapons were removed from USN ships in the G. H. W. Bush administration and that administration made a formal announcement to that effect. In reality they were more trouble than they were worth, and once sensors and processors advanced to the point that a much smaller boomski could get the job done they were gone, to much gratefulness on the part of the crews and base personnel. In OCS in 1980 we had a whole classroom unit on the specialized security system in place for ships carrying special weapons (the designation might be classified, so I won't), and it was a real bear to maintain and operate.

Afterward, USN ships could (mostly) hit liberty ports in New Zealand again, which of course made the whole transition worthwhile.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 8/12/2018 7:40:44 PM >


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RE: Russian warship tracked down US nuclear sub - 8/12/2018 8:58:39 PM   
rms1pa

 

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picture the thrill of being broke down and tied to the pier. when the japanese public learned those white boxes on the constantly visiting ships were nukes (maybe).

side fact the fire pumps onboard a DD can keep 6, 2 1/2 inch hoses running strong for hours.

small public disturbance my ass.

rms/pa

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RE: Russian warship tracked down US nuclear sub - 8/12/2018 10:06:02 PM   
RangerJoe

 

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quote:

quote:

From talks with SSN guys who operated there the worst part of the whole deal, outside of avoiding trawler nets, was the run past Gibraltar.

(me)
I think that Das Boot, both the book and the movie, have a good description of trying to run past Gibraltar.

In the movie at least my memory is they transited at night on the surface. SSNs go through submerged. Different challenges.


Then they were forced to submerge, still tried to get through, were damaged some more and went back to France. Then they were bombed and strafed in port. I suppose that I could look in the book and find the relevant pages but I am too lazy and tired of looking things up.


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