Losses.

[Hghx-0]

Hello, today I want to raise a topic about which I have been thinking quite a lot already, and it bothers me. In particular I am talking about losses and the difference between WiTE of the early patches, WiTE of the current patches and WiTW.

In general the problem is easy to describe – the amount of losses caused in battle is low. Subjective for sure, but as how my personal expirience shows no german panzer unit is able to fall under 70-80 % TOE by the 1941 winter, even in tough battles I have never lost more than, say, 1000 men LOST + DAMAGED. As the result you can’t deal much damage to any unit after 1941 (sometimes to a soviet one you can, but it’s not a common thing). You can’t shatter enemy unit in combat, It retreats and retreats and the only possibility is to encirle and destroy it.
Encirclement works strange too, am I the only one who finds the fanatical SS guys fighting a couple of rounds forcing enemy to lose few hundred of men and then surreder to be an unrealistic thing? I mean I know that there is a mechanic that forces unit to stop fighting after a certain % of men were lost, but shouldn’t this percent be bigger for battles where you can’t retreat? And shouldn’t morale be the main factor?
Now when you attack an enemy you want to get a good ratio to get the hex controled, if you have enough CV then enemy will just retreat without any significant CV drop (exept fatigue and fort adjustment)

So the losses are low, you can’t weaken the enemy in the combat, almost can’t.

But the most interesting part part of this story is that I recently managed to play WiTE 1.00, and finally confirmed my doubt. To summarize – units lose from 2 to 6 times more strenght than in the current version, I did 20 different tests (10 for each version) with +- the same conditions and german losses where much higher (3k-6k), all is documented, please check and say what do you think about it, I am really disappointed because I was receiving such information in the past but I thought that the combat system was ‘broken’ from the start, but it seems that it was modified in process.

Here are some examples:

[Here will be some images when i get 10 posts]

Archive is too big, but i can't post links so i can't do anything but trick the system, i hope it's ok.

Archive: ufile[dot]io
/qncwo

[Hghx-0]

After posting i got a thought that this post should be in [War Room] section, but i am not sure (it's about combat mechanic after all) so let the moderators decide

[EwaldvonKleist]

Not an expert here, but:
In earlier versions, the displayed losses were higher than the ones shown in the overall losses.
So try to repeat your tests, but look at overall losses in the loss report (the column on the right side) instead of the losses in the battle report or the losses shown for this turn only.
Of course, there were not only changes in the way the losses were displayed, but also in the combat model, but I don't know much about them.

[chaos45]

If remember right in Version 1....the issue was losses were way to high....so basically the soviets were able to, to easily attrit the german army.

Your talking jumping in the way, way back time machine lol.

[xhoel]

In my current GC, the Germans take quite a few losses even when winning a battle and the Soviets are not doing as bad as before. In a deliberate attack by 4 Divisions (3 German and 1 Rumanian) the Soviets held and caused 700+ Axis KIA and around 500 Damaged. Also many Soviet units (with 3-4 CV values) are holding on open ground without fortifications against German divisions with 20+ CV.