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Tanks losses due to "accident" - why?

 
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Tanks losses due to "accident" - why? - 7/16/2018 8:20:31 PM   
brian.here@yahoo.com


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Joined: 6/28/2012
From: Von Manstein
Status: offline
Most of my German tanks are lost because during battle they retreat and then they have what is called an "accident." I have lost hardly any as "killed." I still win the battles (it is still June). Does anyone know why so many tanks are lost due to this retreat then accident action?
Should I adjust the retreat percentage? It looks like my panzers will be widdled away to nothing due to accidents.

Thank you!

< Message edited by brian.here@yahoo.com -- 7/17/2018 12:50:50 AM >


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Von Manstein
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RE: Tanks losses due to "accident" - why? - 7/16/2018 10:08:32 PM   
lancer

 

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Hi brain,

Tanks accumulate mileage and suffer mechanical breakdowns (p.195 of the manual under 'Wear and Tear').

This is separate, however, to 'accidents' which are a feature of the combat resolution system.

Vic will have to answer this one as it's part of the underlying game engine. Whether they occur randomly or there are contributing factors I'm not sure.

I'd exercise a degree of patience as he's busy with his new game (Shadow Empires - Scifi) and only occasionally drops by the forums.

Cheers,
Cameron (Designer)

< Message edited by lancer -- 7/16/2018 11:44:00 PM >

(in reply to brian.here@yahoo.com)
Post #: 2
RE: Tanks losses due to "accident" - why? - 7/17/2018 7:55:43 AM   
Vic


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Joined: 5/17/2004
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Hi,

If a tank is in involved in combat there is a small chance it will be taken out of action due to other reasons than regular exchange of fire.

Combat is a nasty business, especially for the rather sensitive heavy tracked equipment as tanks. During combat tanks are often traversing much more difficult terrain than the roads they use during regular movement. A tank could drive over a mine, slide into a ditch, suffer a mechanical breakdown, get caught up in a local counteroffensive while it has run out of fuel or ammo causing the crew to abandon the tank.

Furthermore it models freak enemy successes in taking out tanks or panicking their crews by unconventional means (i.e circumstances where armour thickness and range play no role because enemy is literally on top of tank or disabled the tracks).

It is an amalgam rule that models all those diverse kind of reasons that tanks might get lost during combat engagement.

Gameplay wise this rule serves to make you use your panzers as a precision tool and not as a hammer. If you use your 'surgical' knife as a hammer repeatedly it will slowly go blunt. Furthermore it avoids unrealistic invincibility where every single tank can just kill multiple dozensfold of other tanks or a thousandfold of infantry.

There is a chance on an accident every time a tank 'individual' scores a serious hit (KILL or RETREAT) on an enemy target.

Hope this clears things up a bit on this rule.

Best wishes,
Vic




< Message edited by Vic -- 7/17/2018 8:01:49 AM >


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(in reply to lancer)
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RE: Tanks losses due to "accident" - why? - 7/17/2018 11:24:01 AM   
brian.here@yahoo.com


Posts: 12
Joined: 6/28/2012
From: Von Manstein
Status: offline
Thank you Cameron and thank you Vic. I appreciate you getting back with me so quickly especially while you work on Shadow Empires (Vic).

The feedback makes sense. I like Vic how you describe why it is happening ("Combat is a nasty business...") as it helps with immersion into the game. Oh, and what a game and what immersion you guys have created!

I can't thank you enough for creating such a wonderful game. I also, thoroughly enjoy the reams of statistics that are tracked each turn. I am a numbers guy so it really helps.

BTW - is there a tab in the statistic report that tracks the fuel allocated from the interior each turn (besides the logistics report each turn)? I know it does for each Army Group, but I was wondering if I could see something like:
6.22 25,000 bbls
6.26 22,000 bbls
6.30 19,800 bbls

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Von Manstein

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RE: Tanks losses due to "accident" - why? - 7/18/2018 7:14:58 PM   
Khanti

 

Posts: 204
Joined: 8/28/2007
From: Poland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Vic

Hi,

If a tank is in involved in combat there is a small chance it will be taken out of action due to other reasons than regular exchange of fire.

(...)

There is a chance on an accident every time a tank 'individual' scores a serious hit (KILL or RETREAT) on an enemy target.

Hope this clears things up a bit on this rule.

Best wishes,
Vic


This chance is not small. In fact from my observations chance is exactly 50%.

Well, it's not a problem of this game, it is in ALL Vic's games

You can look at the editor. Go to SFTypes. Check SFT Statistics 2. Look for line ChanceOnDeathIfMakeHit.

For all infantry based units it says 0% and none of them ever will be accidentally removed from play.
For all armor based units it says .05%.

But it's not 5%. It's de facto 50%.
To have it like 5% you need to edit every armor SFT to .005%.

I did it for my own copy of Vic's games and that works fine.

The other subject is mechanical breakdown of units (not in combat). For that part you have field maintenance for one turn (being idle).

(in reply to Vic)
Post #: 5
RE: Tanks losses due to "accident" - why? - 7/19/2018 6:50:09 AM   
ernieschwitz

 

Posts: 2868
Joined: 9/15/2009
From: Denmark
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quote:

Well, it's not a problem of this game, it is in ALL Vic's games


No it's not. Advanced Tactics Gold does not have this problem ;)

(in reply to Khanti)
Post #: 6
RE: Tanks losses due to "accident" - why? - 7/19/2018 6:16:57 PM   
Khanti

 

Posts: 204
Joined: 8/28/2007
From: Poland
Status: offline
Strange thing but you're right. This feature was added after ATG. Thanks for pointing this out.

(in reply to ernieschwitz)
Post #: 7
RE: Tanks losses due to "accident" - why? - 8/8/2018 11:29:53 PM   
mikematotski

 

Posts: 1
Joined: 7/30/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Khanti

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vic

Hi,

If a tank is in involved in combat there is a small chance it will be taken out of action due to other reasons than regular exchange of fire.

(...)

There is a chance on an accident every time a tank 'individual' scores a serious hit (KILL or RETREAT) on an enemy target.

Hope this clears things up a bit on this rule.

Best wishes,
Vic


This chance is not small. In fact from my observations chance is exactly 50%.

Well, it's not a problem of this game, it is in ALL Vic's games

You can look at the editor. Go to SFTypes. Check SFT Statistics 2. Look for line ChanceOnDeathIfMakeHit.

For all infantry based units it says 0% and none of them ever will be accidentally removed from play.
For all armor based units it says .05%.

But it's not 5%. It's de facto 50%.
To have it like 5% you need to edit every armor SFT to .005%.

I did it for my own copy of Vic's games and that works fine.

The other subject is mechanical breakdown of units (not in combat). For that part you have field maintenance for one turn (being idle).


Hi

Im new to this game and read through some of this posts. I can see that a subject is up here about breking down tanks, is this figures accident every time a tank 'individual' scores a serious hit (KILL or RETREAT) on an enemy target = 50% correct.
I cant find where to look at the this figure you mentioned in your posts, can you explain how to change ChanceOnDeathIfMakeHit.

Thanks in advance.

Cheers
Mikematotski

(in reply to Khanti)
Post #: 8
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