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Triggerin the Siberians and harsh winter effects - 7/11/2018 8:54:30 PM   
Christolos


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From: Montreal, Canada
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The manual states:

1.17. Triggering the Siberians

The USSR will transfer forces from Siberia to Kazan
from the 1st December 1941 if there are Axis units
within the proximity of Archangelsk, Vologda, Moscow,
Voronezh, Rostov, Tbilisi, Stalingrad, or Perm.
If the triggers haven’t been met by May 1942
then they will automatically arrive at that date.

How close (in hexes) is "within the proximity" to the listed cities, and how many need to be fulfilled? Is one enough?

It is January 21, 1942 in my 1.14 PBEM game against the Axis, and I'm pretty sure Rostov has been captured, and the Germans are within 5 to 6 hexes of Moscow and Stalingrad...but still no Siberians on the horizon???
Am I missing something?

Also, there have been no first harsh winter effects against the Germans in Russia???
Am I missing something here too?

_____________________________

“Excellence is never an accident. It is always the result of high intention, sincere effort, and intelligent execution; it represents the wise choice of many alternatives - choice, not chance, determines your destiny.”

-Aristotle-
Post #: 1
RE: Triggerin the Siberians and harsh winter effects - 7/12/2018 6:44:09 PM   
LordOfPants

 

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I think the Siberian reinforcements only come if winter has hit the Germans, if winter doesn't hit then it won't come until the 'fallback' of May 1942. I'm not sure exactly what triggers winter, but I'm pretty sure I've seen the Germans dodge winter until 1942 if they don't advance. (For example if they're doing Sealion, USSR activates, they just defend until they finish with the UK)

(in reply to Christolos)
Post #: 2
RE: Triggerin the Siberians and harsh winter effects - 7/12/2018 9:25:50 PM   
sPzAbt653


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From: east coast, usa
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#CONDITION_POSITION= Format: x,y [min_range, max_range] [min_enemy_units, max_enemy_units] [alignment] [aligned_country_id]

Each #CONDITION_POSITION line will be read using OR logic.

{
#NAME= USSR Siberian Reserves
#POPUP= USSR Transfers Siberian Troops
#IMAGE= siberian.png
#SOUND= transport_movement.ogg
#FLAG= 1
#TYPE= 1
#AI= 0
#LEVEL= 0
; Set global variable condition to always trigger (dummy value)
#GV= 1[1,100]
; Set link value to always trigger (dummy value)
#LINK= 0[0]
#COUNTRY_ID= 116
#TRIGGER= 40
#PRIVATE= 0
#DISPLAY_TURN= 0
#FULL_RESEARCH= 1
#DATE= 1941/12/01
#FAILSAFE_DATE= 1942/05/01
#DESTINATION_RESOURCE= 243,66
#VARIABLE_CONDITION= 116 [2] [100] [0]
#CONDITION_POSITION= 227,35 [2,3] [1,2] [1] [0]
#CONDITION_POSITION= 225,54 [2,3] [1,2] [1] [0]
#CONDITION_POSITION= 221,65 [2,4] [3,5] [1] [0]
#CONDITION_POSITION= 224,77 [2,3] [1,2] [1] [0]
#CONDITION_POSITION= 225,88 [2,3] [1,2] [1] [0]
#CONDITION_POSITION= 235,101 [2,3] [1,2] [1] [0]
#CONDITION_POSITION= 234,85 [3,5] [2,4] [1] [0]
#CONDITION_POSITION= 257,58 [3,5] [1,2] [1] [0]
#UNIT= 0 [10] [1] [Zhukov]
#UNIT= 0 [10] [1] []
#UNIT= 4 [10] [1] []
#UNIT= 4 [10] [1] []
#UNIT= 4 [10] [1] []
#UNIT= 5 [10] [1] []
#UNIT= 5 [10] [1] []
#UNIT= 5 [10] [1] []
#UNIT= 14 [10] [1] []
#UNIT= 14 [10] [1] []
#UNIT= 26 [10] [1] []
#UNIT= 27 [10] [1] []
#UNIT= 29 [10] [1] []
#UNIT= 30 [10] [1] []
}

(in reply to Christolos)
Post #: 3
RE: Triggerin the Siberians and harsh winter effects - 7/12/2018 9:30:19 PM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 7551
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline
quote:

there have been no first harsh winter effects against the Germans in Russia

It has a 75% chance each turn after 1941/12/21 that Russia is in the war, so maybe bad luck so far ?

(in reply to Christolos)
Post #: 4
RE: Triggerin the Siberians and harsh winter effects - 7/13/2018 5:37:26 PM   
Christolos


Posts: 531
Joined: 4/24/2014
From: Montreal, Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

#CONDITION_POSITION= Format: x,y [min_range, max_range] [min_enemy_units, max_enemy_units] [alignment] [aligned_country_id]

Each #CONDITION_POSITION line will be read using OR logic.

{
#NAME= USSR Siberian Reserves
#POPUP= USSR Transfers Siberian Troops
#IMAGE= siberian.png
#SOUND= transport_movement.ogg
#FLAG= 1
#TYPE= 1
#AI= 0
#LEVEL= 0
; Set global variable condition to always trigger (dummy value)
#GV= 1[1,100]
; Set link value to always trigger (dummy value)
#LINK= 0[0]
#COUNTRY_ID= 116
#TRIGGER= 40
#PRIVATE= 0
#DISPLAY_TURN= 0
#FULL_RESEARCH= 1
#DATE= 1941/12/01
#FAILSAFE_DATE= 1942/05/01
#DESTINATION_RESOURCE= 243,66
#VARIABLE_CONDITION= 116 [2] [100] [0]
#CONDITION_POSITION= 227,35 [2,3] [1,2] [1] [0]
#CONDITION_POSITION= 225,54 [2,3] [1,2] [1] [0]
#CONDITION_POSITION= 221,65 [2,4] [3,5] [1] [0]
#CONDITION_POSITION= 224,77 [2,3] [1,2] [1] [0]
#CONDITION_POSITION= 225,88 [2,3] [1,2] [1] [0]
#CONDITION_POSITION= 235,101 [2,3] [1,2] [1] [0]
#CONDITION_POSITION= 234,85 [3,5] [2,4] [1] [0]
#CONDITION_POSITION= 257,58 [3,5] [1,2] [1] [0]
#UNIT= 0 [10] [1] [Zhukov]
#UNIT= 0 [10] [1] []
#UNIT= 4 [10] [1] []
#UNIT= 4 [10] [1] []
#UNIT= 4 [10] [1] []
#UNIT= 5 [10] [1] []
#UNIT= 5 [10] [1] []
#UNIT= 5 [10] [1] []
#UNIT= 14 [10] [1] []
#UNIT= 14 [10] [1] []
#UNIT= 26 [10] [1] []
#UNIT= 27 [10] [1] []
#UNIT= 29 [10] [1] []
#UNIT= 30 [10] [1] []
}


Thanks for this sPzAbt653, but I'm not sure I fully understand it.
The condition_positions are clear enough, but how many need to be met to trigger the transfer, only one?, and how are the [min_range, max_range] [min_enemy_units, max_enemy_units] values that will trigger the event decided...randomly I suppose..?

Also, I assumed the capture of Rostov had no effect in triggering the release because it happened quickly enough and with few enough units to have not triggered the transfer, thereby nullifying #CONDITION_POSITION= 225,88 [2,3] [1,2] [1] [0]. In other words, capturing one of the CONDITION_POSITION locations does not trigger the release since it is not a condition in itself, and it removes the CONDITION_POSITION location in question from contention of triggering the release in future turns. Maybe this should be revisited by the designers...
What do you think?

Cheers,

C

_____________________________

“Excellence is never an accident. It is always the result of high intention, sincere effort, and intelligent execution; it represents the wise choice of many alternatives - choice, not chance, determines your destiny.”

-Aristotle-

(in reply to sPzAbt653)
Post #: 5
RE: Triggerin the Siberians and harsh winter effects - 7/13/2018 5:43:40 PM   
Christolos


Posts: 531
Joined: 4/24/2014
From: Montreal, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

quote:

there have been no first harsh winter effects against the Germans in Russia

It has a 75% chance each turn after 1941/12/21 that Russia is in the war, so maybe bad luck so far ?


It's now my Allied March 4th, 1942 turn and I just got this:



That's some pretty bad luck with those odds! Winter is practically over!

Also, aren't we supposed to see the effects of the Soviet Winter on the Axis forces happening in real time?

I seem to remember having seen the damage happening (i.e., losses in strength) against the Axis when playing against the AI...

C

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Christolos -- 7/13/2018 5:49:33 PM >


_____________________________

“Excellence is never an accident. It is always the result of high intention, sincere effort, and intelligent execution; it represents the wise choice of many alternatives - choice, not chance, determines your destiny.”

-Aristotle-

(in reply to sPzAbt653)
Post #: 6
RE: Triggerin the Siberians and harsh winter effects - 7/13/2018 6:27:03 PM   
Sugar

 

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quote:

Also, aren't we supposed to see the effects of the Soviet Winter on the Axis forces happening in real time?


Doesn`t matter if you`re seeing the animation, the damage is the same. Animation sometimes happens or not, personally I hate to hear 1 min. of boums; and the screen doesn't even focus on that happening.

The later the event strikes the better for the SU, in this case the Axis is losing 1-2 turns of spring by reinforcing.

(in reply to Christolos)
Post #: 7
RE: Triggerin the Siberians and harsh winter effects - 7/13/2018 6:27:13 PM   
KorutZelva

 

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Joined: 2/4/2017
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Christolos


It's now my Allied March 4th, 1942 turn and I just got this:



That's some pretty bad luck with those odds! Winter is practically over!



Thank Punxsutawney Phil.

It's good luck for the Russian. Better to have the German waste a turn of good spring weather to refit than some random turn in the middle of winter.

(in reply to Christolos)
Post #: 8
RE: Triggerin the Siberians and harsh winter effects - 7/13/2018 6:33:42 PM   
Sugar

 

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Joined: 3/16/2017
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Two thugs one thought.

(in reply to KorutZelva)
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RE: Triggerin the Siberians and harsh winter effects - 7/14/2018 1:33:10 AM   
Christolos


Posts: 531
Joined: 4/24/2014
From: Montreal, Canada
Status: offline
Lol! Thanks Sugar and KZ for commenting.

It may be good news for me as the Russians...but I still haven't gotten the Siberians!!!
...and this has me worried big time.

I'm guessing my very clever opponent is aware of the #CONDITION_POSITION triggers and has been tip toeing close enough and with few enough units to the trigger locations to keep the likelihood of triggering the transfer low enough to stall it until May, i.e., in his favor.

C

< Message edited by Christolos -- 7/14/2018 1:42:22 AM >


_____________________________

“Excellence is never an accident. It is always the result of high intention, sincere effort, and intelligent execution; it represents the wise choice of many alternatives - choice, not chance, determines your destiny.”

-Aristotle-

(in reply to Sugar)
Post #: 10
RE: Triggerin the Siberians and harsh winter effects - 7/14/2018 4:57:01 AM   
Christolos


Posts: 531
Joined: 4/24/2014
From: Montreal, Canada
Status: offline
Ok, I finally got the Siberians!

I hope it's not too late!

Cheers,

C

_____________________________

“Excellence is never an accident. It is always the result of high intention, sincere effort, and intelligent execution; it represents the wise choice of many alternatives - choice, not chance, determines your destiny.”

-Aristotle-

(in reply to Christolos)
Post #: 11
RE: Triggerin the Siberians and harsh winter effects - 7/14/2018 10:33:43 AM   
BillRunacre

 

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Only one of the Condition Positions needs to be met, and there is some variability put into this specific one to allow a little randomness.

Enjoy their belated arrival!

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RE: Triggerin the Siberians and harsh winter effects - 7/14/2018 2:15:06 PM   
Christolos


Posts: 531
Joined: 4/24/2014
From: Montreal, Canada
Status: offline
Thanks Bill.

What about the issue of one of the Condition positions being captured before the trigger occurs, i.e., the situation I described with Rostov?
This could technically also happen with some of the other Condition positions (though less likely with Perm...).
Shouldn't, for example, the capture of Rostov at least increase the likelihood of triggering the transfer at the remaining Condition positions?

Cheers,

C

_____________________________

“Excellence is never an accident. It is always the result of high intention, sincere effort, and intelligent execution; it represents the wise choice of many alternatives - choice, not chance, determines your destiny.”

-Aristotle-

(in reply to BillRunacre)
Post #: 13
RE: Triggerin the Siberians and harsh winter effects - 7/16/2018 4:04:02 PM   
BillRunacre

 

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The condition position check is looking for Axis units being within the vicinity of the relevant locations, so in the example given, if the Axis left Rostov and the surrounding area empty then it wouldn't cause the triggering of the Siberians.

But then the Axis would risk losing the city to Partisans, and as there are 8 locations involved in the check it will probably be the case that Axis units elsewhere will trigger them.

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RE: Triggerin the Siberians and harsh winter effects - 7/16/2018 9:00:14 PM   
Christolos


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From: Montreal, Canada
Status: offline
Thanks Bill!

Cheers,

C

_____________________________

“Excellence is never an accident. It is always the result of high intention, sincere effort, and intelligent execution; it represents the wise choice of many alternatives - choice, not chance, determines your destiny.”

-Aristotle-

(in reply to BillRunacre)
Post #: 15
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