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RE: May 1940 USSR DOW in MP??

 
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RE: May 1940 USSR DOW in MP?? - 7/15/2018 6:34:27 AM   
room

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sugar

But you`re not playing this sort of game to get average chances, KZ. It`s a high risk gamble, the success might be huge, and if you don't succeed you`re screwed.

Allthough I`m not against it (would also be very difficult to entice Franco), I understand many players don't expect such opportunities in a strategy game. At least it doesn't tell anything about your abilities, if you win you just proved Fortuna was on your side (allthough this is not meant to dishonor your abilities at all), or your opponent was caught barefooted.


Well playing high risk luck based game might be a sound strategic option when you know you re behind in overall abilities. Managing the amount of luck and risk is also a skill.

Now what is the 30% jackpot

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RE: May 1940 USSR DOW in MP?? - 7/15/2018 8:33:20 AM   
Sugar

 

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quote:

Well playing high risk luck based game might be a sound strategic option when you know you re behind in overall abilities. Managing the amount of luck and risk is also a skill.


That's right, and no one to blame for. But it's also certain that a few bad or lucky rolls could be decisive and overcome all tact. or strat. skills, and obviously many don`t like or expect that in a strategy game. At least it`s not that hard to calculate the risk.

(in reply to room)
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RE: May 1940 USSR DOW in MP?? - 7/15/2018 11:53:55 AM   
Elessar2

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: crispy131313

If only there was scenario already available like this


Hey, I'm one of your biggest fans! I chose FW precisely for said reasons.


< Message edited by Elessar2 -- 7/15/2018 11:54:11 AM >

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RE: May 1940 USSR DOW in MP?? - 7/15/2018 1:53:23 PM   
Taxman66


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The 30% is referring to the maximum amount a diplomacy chit can swing (a minor).
Normally a chit's maximum amount is 15%, but there is a small percentage (computer with manual is in shop so I'm not sure what it is) chance that a normal chit %effect gets doubled.
If you've played enough you might have seen a minor effected by diplomacy for a value of 16% -30%, this is why.

That doubling chance does not apply to diplomacy chits that fire against major powers. I was just reminding Sugar of that.

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"Part of the $10 million I spent on gambling, part on booze and part on women. The rest I spent foolishly." - George Raft

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RE: May 1940 USSR DOW in MP?? - 7/15/2018 4:06:44 PM   
PvtBenjamin

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KorutZelva


quote:

ORIGINAL: PvtBenjamin

quote:

Maybe I'm incorrect. After France falls if the Germans & Italians invest all they can in USSR diplo can the Brits equal (negate) that investment and prevent the USSR from swinging towards the Axis and to zero?





It's mathematically possible but unlikely. Provided the allies picked the events to keep USSR readiness high. The average diplo hit for a major would be 11% (IIRC). At 15% chance to trigger the hit, it would take 6,66 turns on average to fire. To wipe off all USSR readiness post-france you'd need about 4 diplo hit. To wipe everything it would take almost 2 years (provided USSR readiness doesn't go up in the interval, which it will).

To get it to 0% in any reliable fashion, the Axis would have to score hits when France is still around. I suspect the Axis did in your game and these hits were entirely avoidable while you had the diplochit advantage (and then) parity.





Thank you KZ I appreciate that

Hopefully we can all agree that at no time should USSR military spending be at 0, there should be a floor. I'd propose letting mobilization go below 10% but military spending would at a minimum be the equivalent of 10% mobilization.


I'm not a big major diplo player so if any of the following is incorrect please let me know.


How do the Brits counter the following?


The Germans capture France 6/40 (Belgium & Netherlands also) plundering 1900MPP and Italy is in the war. On the next turn (no major diplo to date) the Germans spend 875 on and Italy 350 on USSR diplo (7 chits 35% chance). Unless the Brits have saved MPP it will take them 3 turns to offset the Germans and the Axis. So the Axis has a 35% chance of swaying the USSR turn 1, 25% turn 2 and 10% each additional turn until USSR enters. The current game mechanisms currently force the Brits to spend 875 which they can hardly afford on USSR diplo before the fall of France if they want to minimize this strategy. This of course could have some chance of a Brit first hit.

The Germans start the '39 scenario with 1650 accomplished research chits and 875 pts in the queue, the Brits 825 accomplished & 1250 in the queue. Given the Brits start the game at a 450 point total research deficit (which I believe its imperative to make up) and an huge troop deficit they can hardly afford to spend 875 to counter the diplo. If they do its going to be very tough going on Sea Lion or Egypt.


One of my current games is in 3/40 and the game to date MPPs are Germans (Poland only) 1928, Brits 1639 and France 903. In my opinion the spirit of the game isn't that the Brits spend 1/2 their MPPS on Diplo by 3/40, it completely marginalizes the rest of the game. In my experience the French barely have enough to reinforce the troops they have so they can prolong the inevitable until June or July '40, I usually spend 100-200 on diplo.


If I've made any errors or strategies let me know and I'll update.


< Message edited by PvtBenjamin -- 7/15/2018 4:13:59 PM >


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You see things; and you say “Why?” But I dream things that never were; and I say “Why not?”

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RE: May 1940 USSR DOW in MP?? - 7/15/2018 4:25:20 PM   
Taxman66


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Have you been reading the AAR of the game IrishGuards and I are playing? Other than the timing of the chit expenditures, this is exactly what is going on.

I admit to having the added burden of making several bad mistakes in choices on what to do with the UK and her very limited MPP and troops in this scenario.

_____________________________

"Part of the $10 million I spent on gambling, part on booze and part on women. The rest I spent foolishly." - George Raft

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Post #: 66
RE: May 1940 USSR DOW in MP?? - 7/15/2018 4:44:21 PM   
PvtBenjamin

 

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I haven't sorry to be repetitive.


Looks like if done on one turn hard to defend.

< Message edited by PvtBenjamin -- 7/15/2018 4:45:45 PM >


_____________________________

You see things; and you say “Why?” But I dream things that never were; and I say “Why not?”

George Bernard Shaw

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RE: May 1940 USSR DOW in MP?? - 7/15/2018 6:03:34 PM   
Sugar

 

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This is an extreme example, PB, and it won't occur in most games. Every player with a bit xp knows diplo is coming into play at some point, and since it's reasonable to take the chance to achieve a first hit, everyone should try to use it. No matter which side is first, the opponent has to react; otherwise he has to hold back his chits and MPPs, watching Spain going Allied, for a prize GB can afford and has to anyway.

It's not the game of diplo and counterdiplo that's annoying, but the huge chances.

(in reply to PvtBenjamin)
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RE: May 1940 USSR DOW in MP?? - 7/15/2018 6:58:48 PM   
PvtBenjamin

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sugar

This is an extreme example, PB, and it won't occur in most games. Every player with a bit xp knows diplo is coming into play at some point, and since it's reasonable to take the chance to achieve a first hit, everyone should try to use it. No matter which side is first, the opponent has to react; otherwise he has to hold back his chits and MPPs, watching Spain going Allied, for a prize GB can afford and has to anyway.

It's not the game of diplo and counterdiplo that's annoying, but the huge chances.




Seems very plausible to me. If the Axis invested all at the point that France fell the Brits would have to spend 250-300ish MPP for all the next three turn (unless they saved). Brits have no indication its coming. Germany gets all the MPP's from plunder correct, why not spend them all at once, catch the Brits with no recourse. They could actually invest in Spain initially then sell and buy USSR 5 chits (which would really throw the Brits off), 1900 plunder goes a long way.

Anyway I think diplo should be on a total amount say 250-350 total. Its not that it can't be countered I just feel its not the way the game was intended to be played.

I guess you'll argue its intended however one wants to play within the rules.

Who's the best defense you've played SC3 against by the way?



_____________________________

You see things; and you say “Why?” But I dream things that never were; and I say “Why not?”

George Bernard Shaw

(in reply to Sugar)
Post #: 69
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