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Tournament Proposal - 6/17/2018 8:39:30 PM   
larryfulkerson

 

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Is there any interest in a "friendly tournament"? That's where one scenario is picked out for the platform of interest, the scenario, and the winners of each game play each other until there's only one person who has beat everybody. It would need to be a small simple scenario, one played quickly, and we could dedicate this thread for the compeditors to post who they played and who won etc. In the past the scenario was "Two Weeks In Normandy" but it doesn't have to be that one. Anybody got any good ideas for a small short scenario that we could use for this?

07/11/2018 EDIT:
I've decided on a scenario just to get us started:
Just play the first 10 turns and the most VP's wins.
Play mirror games and total up the VP's.

1922 Greco-Turkish War
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4506080&mpage=1&key=�

< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 7/11/2018 2:27:16 PM >
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RE: Tournament Proposal - 6/18/2018 8:33:33 AM   
Waltz

 

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I like this idea

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RE: Tournament Proposal - 6/18/2018 1:25:22 PM   
Cfant

 

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Sounds funny

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RE: Tournament Proposal - 6/24/2018 9:08:51 PM   
walkra

 

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Hi. Great idea!

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RE: Tournament Proposal - 6/24/2018 9:47:03 PM   
MikeC317

 

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This is a good idea!

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RE: Tournament Proposal - 6/25/2018 5:15:01 AM   
rhinobones

 

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Larry von Fulk

Quite some years ago I ran small tournament for Panzer General and later participated in a TOAW tournament for “10 turn” scenarios. Both tournaments were both fun and both had their disasters.
The problems the organizer of the tournament needs to deal with are:

1) There are always whiners.
2) There are always people who disappear.
3) There are always people who dislike you because you enforced the rules they agreed to.
4) All people do not play at the same speed.
5) Note that since your original post, no one has suggested scenarios of 20 turns or less.

Sounds like fun, hope it works out for you all. Hope the tournament overcomes the inherent problems.

Regards, RhinoBones


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RE: Tournament Proposal - 6/25/2018 8:28:04 AM   
Waltz

 

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5) Note that since your original post, no one has suggested scenarios of 20 turns or less.

I have to admit I only play the big scenarios I have no idea what the small ones are like

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RE: Tournament Proposal - 6/25/2018 10:54:40 AM   
NikolaiEzhov


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What about Anonymous Heroics (PBEM)?

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RE: Tournament Proposal - 6/26/2018 6:44:26 AM   
larryfulkerson

 

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I've checked out Anonymous Heroics and I think it's ideal for what we
need. Great choice. I'll post the scenario here below so that everyone
can have a copy of it in case there's somebody that doesn't have it yet.
Brian and I were talking about maybe getting the ball rolling by playing the
first game unless somebody else wants to be first.

Anonymous Heroics is posted here below.

Attachment (1)

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RE: Tournament Proposal - 6/27/2018 1:57:39 AM   
rhinobones

 

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quote:

Anonymous Heroics


As I recall “Anonymous Heroics” was designed as a learning too. Both sides equally weighted, map identical for both sides and equal objectives. This is a good learning tool but not the type of scenario you want for tournament.

What you need are low turn competitive scenarios played as mirrored competitions. Don’t know if they are available in TOAW IV, but scenarios like Balkans 13 and Franco-Prussian War 1860 are perfect for a tournament. Actually, scenarios like this would be good to get people out of the "massive WWII scenario" mindset.

Regards, RhinoBones


< Message edited by rhinobones -- 6/27/2018 2:15:17 AM >


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Colin Wright:
Comprehensive Wishlist Forum #467 . . . The Norm (blessed be His name, genuflect three times and accept all values in the program as revealed truth)

Pre Combat Air Strikes # 64 . . . I need have no concern about keeping it civil

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RE: Tournament Proposal - 6/27/2018 7:47:14 PM   
Curtis Lemay


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I always thought my "Cambrai 1917" scenario would make a good tournament game. Both sides get to take the offensive and, historically, the lines ended up just about where they started. 17 turns in length.

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RE: Tournament Proposal - 6/27/2018 8:17:56 PM   
larryfulkerson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay
I always thought my "Cambrai 1917" scenario would make a good tournament game. Both sides get to take the offensive and, historically, the lines ended up just about where they started. 17 turns in length.

I like that. Let's use Bob's scenario you guys.

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RE: Tournament Proposal - 6/27/2018 8:18:25 PM   
Marc1314

 

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I'd like to join in if there are any places.
I'm new to toaw and I haven't played any mp yet so I might need a few tips but I would definitely play.

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RE: Tournament Proposal - 6/27/2018 8:26:50 PM   
larryfulkerson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc1314
I'd like to join in if there are any places.
I'm new to toaw and I haven't played any mp yet so I might need a few tips but I would definitely play.

Hey there Marc: You're among friends and we together can answer just about any question you may have. We're here to help you get started and up to speed. The tournament hasn't really gotten off the ground yet I guess but you can start it if you'd like. Just play the above scenario with an opponent and post the results here I guess. It's simple to handle at first. When it starts to get crowded it's harder to keep it all straight, but so far so good. Do an AAR so we can post suggestions and hints. Pictures are good for that. Do you have a copy of Bob's scenario? I'll post a copy of it here below so we can all have access to it. Good luck dude.

Attachment (1)

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RE: Tournament Proposal - 6/28/2018 1:39:00 AM   
Marc1314

 

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thanks, I've got the map now

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RE: Tournament Proposal - 6/30/2018 6:52:05 AM   
Cfant

 

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You can also take other scenarios. Match and rematch with sides changed. Compare victory points after 10 turns.

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RE: Tournament Proposal - 6/30/2018 6:54:07 AM   
Cfant

 

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And we need a time limit. 72 hours per turn for example. Player who misses the timer list, like in chess.

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RE: Tournament Proposal - 7/2/2018 12:42:39 AM   
rhinobones

 

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I don’t know if these scenarios are still in the TOAW IV inventory, but there are three scenarios which might be good for a tournament.

1) Franco-Prussian War 1870. Short scenario which also has both tactical and strategic considerations. As I recall there were two versions from different authors.

2) Older versions of TOAW had two scenarios centered on the Balkans wars prior to WW I. Both were fairly short in length.

3) There was a scenario about the Japanese invasion of the Philippines. I always thought that was a fun scenario and it had the possibility of different outcome.

Another contributor mentioned taking the 10th turn score as the tournament score. I like that idea. It opens the door for a larger number of tournament scenarios. However, even with that, I would still recommend not using monster scenarios in a tournament.

One suggestion is that you stay away from commonly played scenarios. What you don’t need are people with a practiced “killer” first move. Not fair for competition and against the spirit of a fair and equal competition.

Regards, RhinoBones


_____________________________

Colin Wright:
Comprehensive Wishlist Forum #467 . . . The Norm (blessed be His name, genuflect three times and accept all values in the program as revealed truth)

Pre Combat Air Strikes # 64 . . . I need have no concern about keeping it civil

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RE: Tournament Proposal - 7/2/2018 1:18:53 AM   
larryfulkerson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cfant
You can also take other scenarios. Match and rematch with sides changed. Compare victory points after 10 turns.

And we need a time limit. 72 hours per turn for example. Player who misses the timer list, like in chess.


quote:

ORIGINAL: rhinobones
I don’t know if these scenarios are still in the TOAW IV inventory, but there are three scenarios which might be good for a tournament:

1) Franco-Prussian War 1870. Short scenario which also has both tactical and strategic considerations. As I recall there were two versions from different authors.

2) Older versions of TOAW had two scenarios centered on the Balkans wars prior to WW I. Both were fairly short in length.

3) There was a scenario about the Japanese invasion of the Philippines. I always thought that was a fun scenario and it had the possibility of different outcome.

Another contributor mentioned taking the 10th turn score as the tournament score. I like that idea. It opens the door for a larger number of tournament scenarios. However, even with that, I would still recommend not using monster scenarios in a tournament.

One suggestion is that you stay away from commonly played scenarios. What you don’t need are people with a practiced “killer” first move. Not fair for competition and against the spirit of a fair and equal competition.
Regards, RhinoBones

Wow !!! you guys have some really great ideas. I'm trying to line up an opponent for this tournament and it looks like Brian might volunteer so we may be off the ground soon. Let's discuss and vote on these rules above as the rules of the tournament. What say you?

< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 7/2/2018 1:19:48 AM >


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RE: Tournament Proposal - 7/2/2018 2:24:08 PM   
Cfant

 

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The scenarios are not very balanced mostly. So you'd need a rematch with sides changed. Keep that in mind - nobody wants a tournament that takes a whole year :) So it really should be scenarios which can be played quickly.

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RE: Tournament Proposal - 7/3/2018 1:21:50 AM   
rhinobones

 

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Larry von Fulk

Maybe I’ve misunderstood. When I read “tournament” I think of 3 or more players playing multiple mirrored games. Your last post seemed to indicate that the tournament was only between you and one other player. Is that right?

Your last posts also indicates that other players seem to be interested in participating. Suggest that you open the tournament to all players who are able/willing to abide by the rules of turn-around by XX number of hours or days.

First thing you need to do is document the scenarios to be played, points for scenario victory conditions, how payers will be matched, and the ultimate tournament victory condition.

If you need help setting up the matches, assigning matches or kicking out delinquents, I can help.

Regards, RhinoBones





_____________________________

Colin Wright:
Comprehensive Wishlist Forum #467 . . . The Norm (blessed be His name, genuflect three times and accept all values in the program as revealed truth)

Pre Combat Air Strikes # 64 . . . I need have no concern about keeping it civil

(in reply to larryfulkerson)
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RE: Tournament Proposal - 7/3/2018 11:08:32 AM   
larryfulkerson

 

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Larry von Fulk:
Maybe I’ve misunderstood. When I read “tournament” I think of 3 or more players playing multiple mirrored games. Your last post seemed to indicate that the tournament was only between you and one other player. Is that right?
No, of course it's for everybody. The more the better. I was just refering to my success ( maybe ) to round up an opponent for this project, Brian. He's working on a spreadsheet for us to use to keep track of all the opponents and the victory points for the two mirrored games and the total points they have earned so far, etc.


Your last posts also indicates that other players seem to be interested in participating. Suggest that you open the tournament to all players who are able/willing to abide by the rules of turn-around by XX number of hours or days.
Yes of course.

First thing you need to do is document the scenarios to be played, points for scenario victory conditions, how payers will be matched, and the ultimate tournament victory condition.

If you need help setting up the matches, assigning matches or kicking out delinquents, I can help.
That would be great Steve dude. More willing hands would be great. I say let's put you in charge....Tournament master, Ringmaster, ladder daddy, etc.


Regards, RhinoBones
Good to hear from you by the way.


< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 7/3/2018 11:10:02 AM >


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RE: Tournament Proposal - 7/4/2018 8:45:01 PM   
rhinobones

 

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To be clear, I'm offering to help you conduct a tournament. I do not intend to run it. That headache is all yours!


Regards

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Colin Wright:
Comprehensive Wishlist Forum #467 . . . The Norm (blessed be His name, genuflect three times and accept all values in the program as revealed truth)

Pre Combat Air Strikes # 64 . . . I need have no concern about keeping it civil

(in reply to larryfulkerson)
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RE: Tournament Proposal - 7/9/2018 7:06:16 PM   
larryfulkerson

 

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Hey you guys Brian ( General Patton ) constructed a spreadsheet for us to
use for the tournament. I've already entered my name as one of the
participants. I've attached it here below for others to add their names
and then zip it back up and reattach it to this thread.

Attachment (1)

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"When you're dead you don't know you're dead. The pain is felt by others. The same thing happens when you're stupid." Anon.

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RE: Tournament Proposal - 7/9/2018 7:06:56 PM   
larryfulkerson

 

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Here's what Brian's spreadsheet looks like:




Attachment (1)

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"When you're dead you don't know you're dead. The pain is felt by others. The same thing happens when you're stupid." Anon.

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RE: Tournament Proposal - 7/10/2018 12:20:57 AM   
rhinobones

 

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Brackets look good, but what do you do if there are 6 or 9 players? In that case your single round knock-out bracket will not work. That’s not unusual though, brackets typically need to be “tweaked” after the total number of players is known.

One suggestion for the first round would be to select two relatively short scenarios and have each player play four games. Two as side 1 and two as side 2. Opponents would be matched randomly from the available pool. The four players with the best results would go on to mirrored games in semi-final and final rounds.

The concept behind the first round is that everyone has an opportunity to enjoy multiple games and, so long as you have at least five players, it doesn’t matter how many entrants you have. You will also need to publish your criteria for scoring prior to the commencing the tournament.

One last point is that the match ups, scenarios and sides played should be known beforehand so that players can have multiple games going at one time. This helps to cut down the calendar length of the tournament.

Regards, RhinoBones


_____________________________

Colin Wright:
Comprehensive Wishlist Forum #467 . . . The Norm (blessed be His name, genuflect three times and accept all values in the program as revealed truth)

Pre Combat Air Strikes # 64 . . . I need have no concern about keeping it civil

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RE: Tournament Proposal - 7/10/2018 3:22:44 AM   
Cfant

 

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Why 4 games?if someone wants to enjoy multiple games he always can play a pbem?

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RE: Tournament Proposal - 7/10/2018 5:01:52 AM   
rhinobones

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cfant

Why 4 games?if someone wants to enjoy multiple games he always can play a pbem?


I didn’t specify in my earlier post, but all tournament games are PBM games. So, to answer your question, yes, the first round of four games are intended to be PBM. Actually, all games are to be PBM.

I suggested 4 games based on experience. Seems that if the first round is much over 4 games players tend to go AWOL or have personal reasons to drop out. If the owners of the tournament want more than 4 games, I certainly have no objection and will continue with my support. However it turns out, wish the gamers an enjoyable competition.

Regards, RhinoBones


_____________________________

Colin Wright:
Comprehensive Wishlist Forum #467 . . . The Norm (blessed be His name, genuflect three times and accept all values in the program as revealed truth)

Pre Combat Air Strikes # 64 . . . I need have no concern about keeping it civil

(in reply to Cfant)
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RE: Tournament Proposal - 7/10/2018 5:42:51 AM   
Cfant

 

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Yes, I know the tournament will be Pbem. I would keep it easy. 1vs.1 from round 1. But Larry can decide that after we know how many people will take part. I also wouldn't say which scenario is to be played. Otherwise over-amibtious players could test them out a lot.

By the way, I only have winrar, and cannot upload it. Why not just mail you, if I want to take part, Larry?

< Message edited by Cfant -- 7/10/2018 5:46:58 AM >

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RE: Tournament Proposal - 7/10/2018 2:14:44 PM   
larryfulkerson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cfant

Yes, I know the tournament will be Pbem. I would keep it easy. 1vs.1 from round 1. But Larry can decide that after we know how many people will take part. I also wouldn't say which scenario is to be played. Otherwise over-amibtious players could test them out a lot.

By the way, I only have winrar, and cannot upload it. Why not just mail you, if I want to take part, Larry?

Yes, by all means. fulkersonlarry60(at)gmail(dot)com

I've been thinking about it you guys and I think we need just one simple scenario of at least 10 turns and play two
mirror games to T10 and high victory points wins. That's the rules
. I'm thinking about the scenario now....it's got to be one that nobody has ever played before for fairness's sake and I'd like it to be "interesting" but that's not a game stopper. I'm making a list of scenario's for consideration....anybody have a favorite? Forget about it.

< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 7/10/2018 2:15:55 PM >


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