Patrol Arcs - How to Setup

[Werewolf13]

Trying to learn WITP-AE.

Got to Patrol Arcs. Selected the Coral Sea scenario. Went to Port Moresby and selected the PBY squadron. Set Patrol arc to 30 degrees to 210 to cover where I thought the IJN would show up. Selected show arcs.

What is shown on the map is 3 tiny arcs that run from about 30 degrees down to around 100 or so. That's not what I set. Read the manual - date on it is 2009. Talks about patrol arcs in a large paragraph - even more confused.

What am I missing here. All I want to do is tell the squadron where to concentrate its search.

[DConn]

Things to consider:
1. How many planes are flying in the squadron? For example, if you have 12 planes and set a 50% search, 6 planes are flying.
2. Each plan that is flying can search a 10 degree arc in the morning, and a 10 degree arc in the afternoon. The colors of the arcs tell you whether it is morning or afternoon.
3. You will begin your search at the point selected, and then search the arcs either clockwise or counterclockwise, depending on which you have selected, until you run out of planes committed to search. If you have more planes than search arcs, they will go back to the beginning arc and search again.
4. Remember you need to set the range as well.

[MakeeLearn]

Interface Addendum.pdf in C:\Matrix Games\War in the Pacific Admiral's Edition\Manuals

tm.asp?m=2306955&mpage=1&key=Search%2CArcs&#2307713

searchpro.asp?phrase=+Search+Arcs+&auth ... button=+OK+

[HansBolter]

Don't waste your time on patrol arcs, especially if you don't have full squadrons to fill out every sliver of the arc setting.

Not setting arcs means you are searching 360 degrees, no slivers ever get missed.

[Chickenboy]

Doesn't not setting patrol arcs mean that a patrol arc is randomly chosen? My understanding is that *any* allocation of naval search will get the first 4-5 hexes as 'freebies', but beyond that an order (whether randomly generated or by setting arcs) must be established to search that arc. If that's the case, then one really should reduce the areas searched in order to increase the likelihood of flying that arc. In the case of PM in the Coral Sea scenario, he probably doesn't need to search the arc 270-360.

[Werewolf13]

ORIGINAL: DConn

Things to consider:
1. How many planes are flying in the squadron? For example, if you have 12 planes and set a 50% search, 6 planes are flying.
2. Each plan that is flying can search a 10 degree arc in the morning, and a 10 degree arc in the afternoon. The colors of the arcs tell you whether it is morning or afternoon.
3. You will begin your search at the point selected, and then search the arcs either clockwise or counterclockwise, depending on which you have selected, until you run out of planes committed to search. If you have more planes than search arcs, they will go back to the beginning arc and search again.
4. Remember you need to set the range as well.

Thankyou - sqdn in question only has 6 planes at the beginning of the scenario I believe - with a 30 to 210 degree search I believe what I was seeing probably resulted from too few aircraft to do the job.

Didn't see a way to set the range of the search but I'll look again.

[Werewolf13]

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

Interface Addendum.pdf in C:\Matrix Games\War in the Pacific Admiral's Edition\Manuals

tm.asp?m=2306955&mpage=1&key=Search%2CArcs�

searchpro.asp?phrase=+Search+Arcs+&auth ... button=+OK+

Will give those a look...

Thanks to you all who replied. Big help. Much appreciated. I remember when I played the original War in the Pacific way back in the 90's. Didn't take any time at all to learn it. Now at 66 - still can create really complicated statistical analysis for the company I work for but learning how to play or relearning in this case the complicated games I enjoy so much is getting harder and harder.

It's great when the community steps up to help.

[geofflambert]

I pretty much never use arcs for naval search. I do use them on occasion for ASW when I know where the subs are going to be, that can really intensify the number of attacks.

[geofflambert]

If you don't have enough planes your searches will be confined to the first segments that you designate, meaning maybe you get fifty degrees when you designated 90. The rest gets zero. Put a good commander on the squadron and they'll find what needs to be found.

[geofflambert]

Another thing on the ASW. Your regular search planes will attack subs when they spot them, and their coverage will be twice as far out, just don't have them load torpedoes. So if you've got both good search going on and good ASW, restricting the ASW to specific arcs makes even more sense.

[geofflambert]

Watch the colors on the arcs, if I recall correctly green is a.m., blue is p.m. and white is both a.m. and p.m..

[Dili]

Black are the fingers that are flown twice a day. Every 10 degree is a search finger for one aircraft, so if 3 are available only 30º search arc appear.

[Admiral DadMan]

Gorn are focused.

[geofflambert]

Sometimes I focus on a nice piece of a$$ and forget the important things.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

Sometimes I focus on a nice piece of a$$ and forget the important things.

What's with all the laundry hanging out on the starboard quarter? Navy budget couldn't afford a couple of dryers?

[Lokasenna]

Your issue was definitely with not having enough planes in the unit (or enough planes set to fly) to cover all of the arcs that you set.

People will warn you off of search arcs. They have their uses. I use them heavily in circumstances like the one you describe. No point searching what I know to be empty ocean, or wasting naval search over land masses.

[rustysi]

My understanding is that *any* allocation of naval search will get the first 4-5 hexes as 'freebies',

I wouldn't call them 'freebies', but the first four hexes out from the base are searched at 360 degrees.

People will warn you off of search arcs. They have their uses. I use them heavily in circumstances like the one you describe. No point searching what I know to be empty ocean, or wasting naval search over land masses.

+1

[HansBolter]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Your issue was definitely with not having enough planes in the unit (or enough planes set to fly) to cover all of the arcs that you set.

People will warn you off of search arcs. They have their uses. I use them heavily in circumstances like the one you describe. No point searching what I know to be empty ocean, or wasting naval search over land masses.

Except when that important sector you need search coverage for is wider than the number of planes you have to commit when assigning each plane a tiny sliver......

The ONLY time search arcs are valuable is when the two variables above coincide.


And in answer to a question above, when you don't assign arcs a random arc is NOT selected, you are getting 360 degree coverage.

I have very, very rarely ever been surprised by a TF that appeared out of no where within the search range of my NAV search squadrons.

The theory that you are getting more concentrated and therefore more effective coverage by setting arcs has yet to be proven to my satisfaction.

When you set arcs and every last plane is assigned and arc, who is doing the searching in the 4 hex deep 360 degree zone?

I think that's what another poster meant by "freebie".

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Your issue was definitely with not having enough planes in the unit (or enough planes set to fly) to cover all of the arcs that you set.

People will warn you off of search arcs. They have their uses. I use them heavily in circumstances like the one you describe. No point searching what I know to be empty ocean, or wasting naval search over land masses.

Except when that important sector you need search coverage for is wider than the number of planes you have to commit when assigning each plane a tiny sliver......

The ONLY time search arcs are valuable is when the two variables above coincide.



I have very, very rarely ever been surprised by a TF that appeared out of no where within the search range of my NAV search squadrons.

The theory that you are getting more concentrated and therefore more effective coverage by setting arcs has yet to be proven to my satisfaction.

When you set arcs and every last plane is assigned and arc, who is doing the searching in the 4 hex deep 360 degree zone?

I think that's what another poster meant by "freebie".

I think there's a fundamental misunderstanding of how searching works going on here. I will attempt to explain, but hopefully Alfred shows up as I'm mostly going to be paraphrasing what I remember from his previous explainer (which is in turn based on developer comments).

The fundamental mechanic to understand is that all planes on a search mission will search a given 10-degree arc, regardless of whether that is assigned or random.

First, the 4-hex "freebie": it's not actually free, it's just that it is possible to get 100% coverage of these hexes (whether or not the plane succeeds in generating a spotting report is another matter). The reason why the 4-hex distance "circle" centered on the point of origin for the search is much easier to each in is because of the way the arcs work. At range 1, there are 6 hexes - each of them will therefore contain 6 10-degree arcs to complete the 360-degree circle. Each additional hex of range adds 6 hexes to the outer circumference. At range 4, that's 24 hexes, so each hex will have on average 1.5 arcs. Out at range 6 you finally reach 1 plane per arc.

The reason why there can be gaps in coverage, and why long range naval search can be unreliable, is because out at those ranges the plane will not be searching every hex within the 10-degree arc. With a distance of 12 hexes, for example, each arc contains 2 hexes and the plane (as I understand it) will only search 1 of them. Out at range 18, the end of the arc is 3 hexes wide.

And in answer to a question above, when you don't assign arcs a random arc is NOT selected, you are getting 360 degree coverage.

This is incorrect. A random arc is selected for each plane from the 36 10-degree arcs that are available. Over a long enough period of time, a large enough sample will mean that on average each arc is being searched the same amount... but unless you have at least 36 planes flying every phase, you will not have "360 degree coverage" every day.

[HansBolter]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

This is incorrect. A random arc is selected for each plane from the 36 10-degree arcs that are available. Over a long enough period of time, a large enough sample will mean that on average each arc is being searched the same amount... but unless you have at least 36 planes flying every phase, you will not have "360 degree coverage" every day.

And you have documentation to support this claim?

I have never seen such a statement from a developer.

How is the 4 hex 360 degree coverage when assigning arcs working when their is sonly one plane in the squadron?
By what you describe you would still have to have enough planes to cover each sliver to get the 4 hex 360 degree coverage.