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Arizona Memorial at Pearl Harbor closed indefinitely - 5/27/2018 2:52:30 PM   
MakeeLearn


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Arizona Memorial at Pearl Harbor closed indefinitely

"Hawaii News Now reports boat transportation to the attraction was suspended May 6 after one of the vessel operators noticed a crack on the outside of the memorial."

http://www.khq.com/story/38284598/arizona-memorial-at-pearl-harbor-closed-indefinitely
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RE: Arizona Memorial at Pearl Harbor closed indefinitely - 5/27/2018 3:17:29 PM   
btd64


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Read about this, this morning....GP

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RE: Arizona Memorial at Pearl Harbor closed indefinitely - 5/27/2018 6:34:28 PM   
BBfanboy


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I wonder if that is related to all the ground shifting associated with Kilauea's eruption. There has been much activity all around the Pacific Ring of Fire over the past several weeks.

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RE: Arizona Memorial at Pearl Harbor closed indefinitely - 5/28/2018 3:08:02 PM   
Gregg

 

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If you remember, the monument structure spanning the Arizona was hit by a ship about a year ago.
The cracking is very likely a result of that striking.

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RE: Arizona Memorial at Pearl Harbor closed indefinitely - 5/28/2018 4:35:19 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gregg

If you remember, the monument structure spanning the Arizona was hit by a ship about a year ago.
The cracking is very likely a result of that striking.


I don't remember because I didn't know about that. Thanks for bringing it up!

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RE: Arizona Memorial at Pearl Harbor closed indefinitely - 5/29/2018 12:53:00 AM   
patrickl


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Thanks OP for the post. It is important to check the sights one intend to visit before embarking on the trip. Last year I went to Taiwan and could not visit the Army museum in Taipei as it was closed to renovation. I did manage to visit other museums but none were military ones.

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RE: Arizona Memorial at Pearl Harbor closed indefinitely - 5/29/2018 9:54:03 PM   
rustysi


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Bummer, thanks for the post. Needed info.

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RE: Arizona Memorial at Pearl Harbor closed indefinitely - 5/31/2018 1:52:40 AM   
wdolson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

I wonder if that is related to all the ground shifting associated with Kilauea's eruption. There has been much activity all around the Pacific Ring of Fire over the past several weeks.


For Geologic activity Oahu and Kilauea are pretty far apart. The distance from Hilo to Honolulu is 337 Km (209 Mi). That's close to twice the distance between Mt St Helens and Seattle.

Also Hawaii is not part of the Ring of Fire. It's a completely different type of volcano. Most volcanoes are inland from subduction zones where ocean floor is sliding under a continental plate. The Pacific is shrinking because the Atlantic is growing, so there are a lot of subduction zones where the Pacific Plate is getting eaten. The Philippines, Japan, the Aleutians, and the Solomons are all caused by subduction zones. The Pacific NW volcanoes are caused by a small plate called the Juan de Fuca plate that is being squeezed between the Pacific and North American plates.

The Hawaiian volcanoes are in the middle of the Pacific Plate. It comes from an ancient hot spot. Hot spot volcanoes happen where the crust cracks and essentially the mantle leaks out. The lava tends to be thinner and flows more easily than subduction volcanoes. These types of volcanoes are usually less violent, but put on big shows compared to subduction volcanoes.

The Hawaiian hot spot has been there at least 100 million years. The Hawaiian chain continues as a string of underwater volcanoes across the Pacific until the disappear under the Aleutians. There is a new Hawaiian island forming SE of the big island of Hawaii. Iceland is another hot spot volcano.

Hot spot volcanoes don't tend to ever go away. They seem to exist for a long time, but because the plates move and the hot spots don't with respect to the core, they appear to move. The hot spot that created Iceland is thought to have originated on land in Siberia where it was the most dramatic volcano event in Geologic history. The lava flows are called the Siberian Traps. Traps is the Swedish word for steps and the mountains created look like mesas or steps. The lava flowed in Siberia for around a million years and came very close to extinguishing life on Earth. We have oil because of this event. The die off was so extensive the bacteria that normally decomposes corpses died too and the dead animals that died in the oceans were buried instead of decomposing. Over time their bodies broke down and made oil and natural gas. (Coal comes from dead trees that got buried.)

Because the plates moved the hot spot is now mostly under the Atlantic and it isn't spewing vast amounts of CO2 and SO2 into the atmosphere. SO2 when it combines with water makes sulfuric acid.

North America has a hot spot volcano too that formed about 14 million years ago in SE Oregon. When it was active in Oregon it covered all of eastern Oregon and much of eastern Washington with lava several thousand feet deep. North America has moved westward since then and the hot spot moved east where it's now under the Rockies which makes it one of the most dangerous volcanoes in the world. You have a volcano with thin, active lava that wants to flow, but it had a massive granite plug on top of it. It takes a long time to melt the granite plug and then when it does, it goes off with a boom that makes Mt St Helens look like a wet firecracker. That volcano is Yellowstone.

There was another volcano like Yellowstone that went off about 40,000 years ago on Sumatra. I believe this one was fueled by subduction, but it was still a big boom. Today it's a giant lake called Toba.

The Arizona Memorial may be developing cracks because the Arizona is collapsing. It is steel that has been submerged in shallow salt water for 75 years. I believe the structure is sunk into the bed of the harbor rather than using the ship for support, but the wreck might be shifting a bit as it falls apart and might be disturbing the foundations of the structure.

Bill

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RE: Arizona Memorial at Pearl Harbor closed indefinitely - 5/31/2018 5:22:17 AM   
Andrea G


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Damn, I am going to Hawaii this summer.

What else is there to visit, military related?

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RE: Arizona Memorial at Pearl Harbor closed indefinitely - 5/31/2018 5:36:16 AM   
wdolson

 

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There is a battleship still afloat (the Missouri) and the Pacific Aviation Museum, among other sites:

https://www.viator.com/Oahu-tourism/Historic-World-War-II-Sites-in-Oahu/d672-t4279

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RE: Arizona Memorial at Pearl Harbor closed indefinitely - 5/31/2018 6:00:28 AM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

I wonder if that is related to all the ground shifting associated with Kilauea's eruption. There has been much activity all around the Pacific Ring of Fire over the past several weeks.


For Geologic activity Oahu and Kilauea are pretty far apart. The distance from Hilo to Honolulu is 337 Km (209 Mi). That's close to twice the distance between Mt St Helens and Seattle.

Also Hawaii is not part of the Ring of Fire. It's a completely different type of volcano. Most volcanoes are inland from subduction zones where ocean floor is sliding under a continental plate. The Pacific is shrinking because the Atlantic is growing, so there are a lot of subduction zones where the Pacific Plate is getting eaten. The Philippines, Japan, the Aleutians, and the Solomons are all caused by subduction zones. The Pacific NW volcanoes are caused by a small plate called the Juan de Fuca plate that is being squeezed between the Pacific and North American plates.

The Hawaiian volcanoes are in the middle of the Pacific Plate. It comes from an ancient hot spot. Hot spot volcanoes happen where the crust cracks and essentially the mantle leaks out. The lava tends to be thinner and flows more easily than subduction volcanoes. These types of volcanoes are usually less violent, but put on big shows compared to subduction volcanoes.

The Hawaiian hot spot has been there at least 100 million years. The Hawaiian chain continues as a string of underwater volcanoes across the Pacific until the disappear under the Aleutians. There is a new Hawaiian island forming SE of the big island of Hawaii. Iceland is another hot spot volcano.

Hot spot volcanoes don't tend to ever go away. They seem to exist for a long time, but because the plates move and the hot spots don't with respect to the core, they appear to move. The hot spot that created Iceland is thought to have originated on land in Siberia where it was the most dramatic volcano event in Geologic history. The lava flows are called the Siberian Traps. Traps is the Swedish word for steps and the mountains created look like mesas or steps. The lava flowed in Siberia for around a million years and came very close to extinguishing life on Earth. We have oil because of this event. The die off was so extensive the bacteria that normally decomposes corpses died too and the dead animals that died in the oceans were buried instead of decomposing. Over time their bodies broke down and made oil and natural gas. (Coal comes from dead trees that got buried.)

Because the plates moved the hot spot is now mostly under the Atlantic and it isn't spewing vast amounts of CO2 and SO2 into the atmosphere. SO2 when it combines with water makes sulfuric acid.

North America has a hot spot volcano too that formed about 14 million years ago in SE Oregon. When it was active in Oregon it covered all of eastern Oregon and much of eastern Washington with lava several thousand feet deep. North America has moved westward since then and the hot spot moved east where it's now under the Rockies which makes it one of the most dangerous volcanoes in the world. You have a volcano with thin, active lava that wants to flow, but it had a massive granite plug on top of it. It takes a long time to melt the granite plug and then when it does, it goes off with a boom that makes Mt St Helens look like a wet firecracker. That volcano is Yellowstone.

There was another volcano like Yellowstone that went off about 40,000 years ago on Sumatra. I believe this one was fueled by subduction, but it was still a big boom. Today it's a giant lake called Toba.

The Arizona Memorial may be developing cracks because the Arizona is collapsing. It is steel that has been submerged in shallow salt water for 75 years. I believe the structure is sunk into the bed of the harbor rather than using the ship for support, but the wreck might be shifting a bit as it falls apart and might be disturbing the foundations of the structure.

Bill

Very interesting stuff! Were you a pro geologist, Bill, or just someone interested in earth's history?

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RE: Arizona Memorial at Pearl Harbor closed indefinitely - 5/31/2018 7:25:35 AM   
wdolson

 

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My sister is a Geologist. She's 10 years older and I lived with her part time when I was in high school and college. I picked up a lot from dinner time conversation.

I've also done some reading since. Geologic history is fascinating. There are lots of Geologic events I wouldn't want to witness, but they must have been awesome. The biggest flood in the entire Geologic record came right through my neighborhood. A wall of water 1500 ft (500 m) high.


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RE: Arizona Memorial at Pearl Harbor closed indefinitely - 5/31/2018 7:36:46 AM   
btd64


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Interesting stuff Bill. I've watched a lot of Earth's geo history shows on TV. Love the stuff....GP

< Message edited by btd64 -- 5/31/2018 7:37:12 AM >


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RE: Arizona Memorial at Pearl Harbor closed indefinitely - 5/31/2018 1:20:50 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson


My sister is a Geologist. She's 10 years older and I lived with her part time when I was in high school and college. I picked up a lot from dinner time conversation.

I've also done some reading since. Geologic history is fascinating. There are lots of Geologic events I wouldn't want to witness, but they must have been awesome. The biggest flood in the entire Geologic record came right through my neighborhood. A wall of water 1500 ft (500 m) high.


That's a pile of water, but bigger than the draining of the Mediterranean into the Black Sea - that some think is the Biblical Flood that wiped out everything in the Middle East.

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RE: Arizona Memorial at Pearl Harbor closed indefinitely - 5/31/2018 4:09:40 PM   
Zorch

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson


My sister is a Geologist. She's 10 years older and I lived with her part time when I was in high school and college. I picked up a lot from dinner time conversation.

I've also done some reading since. Geologic history is fascinating. There are lots of Geologic events I wouldn't want to witness, but they must have been awesome. The biggest flood in the entire Geologic record came right through my neighborhood. A wall of water 1500 ft (500 m) high.


That's a pile of water, but bigger than the draining of the Mediterranean into the Black Sea - that some think is the Biblical Flood that wiped out everything in the Middle East.

Yes, it happened about 6000 BCE. Must have been terrifying.

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Post #: 15
RE: Arizona Memorial at Pearl Harbor closed indefinitely - 5/31/2018 6:58:06 PM   
rustysi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andrea G

Damn, I am going to Hawaii this summer.

What else is there to visit, military related?


The 'Punch Bowl', believe its for sub-mariners. There's a gun emplacement somewhere down there that I believe is between Pearl and Honolulu. There's also Diamond Head which still has the observation post that was built on top of it. I think its open to the public.


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RE: Arizona Memorial at Pearl Harbor closed indefinitely - 5/31/2018 7:08:45 PM   
rustysi


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quote:

Iceland is another hot spot volcano.


I'm no geologist, but I thought Iceland was on top of the North American and European plates, which are moving away from one another. Thus the split down the center of the land mass. My daughter had the opportunity to dive that split. She told me, dry suit or not it was damned cold. Not to mention that on her first attempt her regulator failed. That girl gives me more gray hair than I need. Guess its my fault, I brought her up to be adventurous. She now has a son. That should slow her down a bit!

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In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

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RE: Arizona Memorial at Pearl Harbor closed indefinitely - 5/31/2018 8:31:04 PM   
solops

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson


There is a battleship still afloat (the Missouri) and the Pacific Aviation Museum

There is also the USS Texas at the San Jacinto battleground park, located roughly between Houston and Galveston. It is, I believe, the last remaining example of dreadnought (pre-modern) battleship construction. This is not too far from NASA. When I was a kid you could go all over NASA. Now it is pretty restricted. Someone (Japan?) still has a pre-dreadnought BB somewhere. And I think the WWII Alabama is still in Mobile.



< Message edited by solops -- 5/31/2018 8:33:58 PM >


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RE: Arizona Memorial at Pearl Harbor closed indefinitely - 5/31/2018 9:35:45 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: solops

quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson


There is a battleship still afloat (the Missouri) and the Pacific Aviation Museum

There is also the USS Texas at the San Jacinto battleground park, located roughly between Houston and Galveston. It is, I believe, the last remaining example of dreadnought (pre-modern) battleship construction. This is not too far from NASA. When I was a kid you could go all over NASA. Now it is pretty restricted. Someone (Japan?) still has a pre-dreadnought BB somewhere. And I think the WWII Alabama is still in Mobile.


Don't forget the BC Yavuz (sp?) in the Bosporus (Turkey). Former German BC Goeben, given to Turkey for siding with the Central Powers in WWI.

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RE: Arizona Memorial at Pearl Harbor closed indefinitely - 6/1/2018 1:01:27 AM   
Zorch

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: solops

quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson


There is a battleship still afloat (the Missouri) and the Pacific Aviation Museum

There is also the USS Texas at the San Jacinto battleground park, located roughly between Houston and Galveston. It is, I believe, the last remaining example of dreadnought (pre-modern) battleship construction. This is not too far from NASA. When I was a kid you could go all over NASA. Now it is pretty restricted. Someone (Japan?) still has a pre-dreadnought BB somewhere. And I think the WWII Alabama is still in Mobile.


Don't forget the BC Yavuz (sp?) in the Bosporus (Turkey). Former German BC Goeben, given to Turkey for siding with the Central Powers in WWI.

Was it broken up after it was decommissioned in 1970?

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Post #: 20
RE: Arizona Memorial at Pearl Harbor closed indefinitely - 6/1/2018 1:45:44 AM   
ushakov

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: solops
Someone (Japan?) still has a pre-dreadnought BB somewhere.

That's the Mikasa - Togo's flagship at the battle of Tsushima - a museum ship open to the public at Yokosuka. The only remaining pre-dreadnought, as far as I know. I'm pretty sure only the US has any dreadnought/modern battleships preserved, although the UK has a WW2-era CA, HMS Belfast.


< Message edited by ushakov -- 6/1/2018 1:47:56 AM >

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Post #: 21
RE: Arizona Memorial at Pearl Harbor closed indefinitely - 6/1/2018 1:56:18 AM   
wdolson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson


My sister is a Geologist. She's 10 years older and I lived with her part time when I was in high school and college. I picked up a lot from dinner time conversation.

I've also done some reading since. Geologic history is fascinating. There are lots of Geologic events I wouldn't want to witness, but they must have been awesome. The biggest flood in the entire Geologic record came right through my neighborhood. A wall of water 1500 ft (500 m) high.


That's a pile of water, but bigger than the draining of the Mediterranean into the Black Sea - that some think is the Biblical Flood that wiped out everything in the Middle East.


The Missoula flood during the last ice age. There was a giant lake extending from Eastern Washington back well into Montana that had a big ice dam holding it back. One day the ice dam failed. The Willamette Valley in Oregon flooded all the way to Eugene and the waterfalls in the Columbia Gorge were created when the lower parts of the valleys the rivers flowed through were sliced off. There are places in the Gorge where rocks from the Rockies have been found 1000 ft up.

During the same ice age, the Straits of Gibraltar was a land bridge and the Med dried up into a small salt lake. As the waters in the Atlantic rose at the end of the last ice age, a giant waterfall went through the straits until the Med refilled.

I have also heard speculation that the biblical parting of the Red Sea was actually the Reed Sea, the Hebrew word for "red" and "reed" are similar (according to a history teacher many years ago). The Reed Sea was on the Sinai Peninsula and dried up as North Africa dried. The Red Sea is very deep and if drained, it would take a couple of days to cross, whereas the Reed Sea was very shallow. The history teacher who taught us about the possibility thought it may have been due to a volcanic eruption on one of the islands in the Med.

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RE: Arizona Memorial at Pearl Harbor closed indefinitely - 6/1/2018 3:06:42 AM   
wdolson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

Iceland is another hot spot volcano.


I'm no geologist, but I thought Iceland was on top of the North American and European plates, which are moving away from one another. Thus the split down the center of the land mass. My daughter had the opportunity to dive that split. She told me, dry suit or not it was damned cold. Not to mention that on her first attempt her regulator failed. That girl gives me more gray hair than I need. Guess its my fault, I brought her up to be adventurous. She now has a son. That should slow her down a bit!


About 335 million years ago there was only one continent, Pangea and there was one ocean, the Pacific. Then the continent broke apart and a new ocean formed between the new continents. The biggest split was between North America, Eurasia, and Africa. The Atlas Mountains in North Africa are the same mountains as the Appalachia in the US.

We have a continent splitting today the same way Pangea broke up. East Africa has a rift valley forming as part of the continent is cleaving off.

Iceland straddles the mid-Atlantic ridge which is a chain of volcanoes that runs from Antarctica to the Arctic. Since the discovery of the mid-Atlantic ridge it's been a bit of a mystery why it breaks the surface at Iceland. Nobody can say 100%, but there is a theory that the Siberian Traps volcano (I had the term wrong before) and Iceland are the same hot spot, but it's not 100% certain. The Siberian Traps were about 250 million years ago and as the super continent broke up, North America and Eurasia didn't finish breaking apart until about 65 million years go. As Eurasia broke away from North America, the hot spot may have joined up with the rift in the middle of the Atlantic, extending it further north.



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Post #: 23
RE: Arizona Memorial at Pearl Harbor closed indefinitely - 6/1/2018 3:09:29 AM   
wdolson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: solops

quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson


There is a battleship still afloat (the Missouri) and the Pacific Aviation Museum

There is also the USS Texas at the San Jacinto battleground park, located roughly between Houston and Galveston. It is, I believe, the last remaining example of dreadnought (pre-modern) battleship construction. This is not too far from NASA. When I was a kid you could go all over NASA. Now it is pretty restricted. Someone (Japan?) still has a pre-dreadnought BB somewhere. And I think the WWII Alabama is still in Mobile.




I was talking about a floating battleship in Hawaii specifically. There are a number of BB museum ships, though the Texas is definitely the oldest US one afloat. In the US all but the Texas are fast BBs and the 4 Iowas.

Bill

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Post #: 24
RE: Arizona Memorial at Pearl Harbor closed indefinitely - 6/1/2018 4:04:22 AM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 12188
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quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson


My sister is a Geologist. She's 10 years older and I lived with her part time when I was in high school and college. I picked up a lot from dinner time conversation.

I've also done some reading since. Geologic history is fascinating. There are lots of Geologic events I wouldn't want to witness, but they must have been awesome. The biggest flood in the entire Geologic record came right through my neighborhood. A wall of water 1500 ft (500 m) high.


That's a pile of water, but bigger than the draining of the Mediterranean into the Black Sea - that some think is the Biblical Flood that wiped out everything in the Middle East.


The Missoula flood during the last ice age. There was a giant lake extending from Eastern Washington back well into Montana that had a big ice dam holding it back. One day the ice dam failed. The Willamette Valley in Oregon flooded all the way to Eugene and the waterfalls in the Columbia Gorge were created when the lower parts of the valleys the rivers flowed through were sliced off. There are places in the Gorge where rocks from the Rockies have been found 1000 ft up.

During the same ice age, the Straits of Gibraltar was a land bridge and the Med dried up into a small salt lake. As the waters in the Atlantic rose at the end of the last ice age, a giant waterfall went through the straits until the Med refilled.

I have also heard speculation that the biblical parting of the Red Sea was actually the Reed Sea, the Hebrew word for "red" and "reed" are similar (according to a history teacher many years ago). The Reed Sea was on the Sinai Peninsula and dried up as North Africa dried. The Red Sea is very deep and if drained, it would take a couple of days to cross, whereas the Reed Sea was very shallow. The history teacher who taught us about the possibility thought it may have been due to a volcanic eruption on one of the islands in the Med.

I saw one documentary that noted a shelf of shallow water near the southern end of the Red Sea, extending across it, that could have been exposed with a fall in sea level, or a short-term uplift of the sea bed. Not sure if they had to dredge a channel for modern deep draft vessels.

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Post #: 25
RE: Arizona Memorial at Pearl Harbor closed indefinitely - 6/1/2018 4:08:32 AM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: solops

quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson


There is a battleship still afloat (the Missouri) and the Pacific Aviation Museum

There is also the USS Texas at the San Jacinto battleground park, located roughly between Houston and Galveston. It is, I believe, the last remaining example of dreadnought (pre-modern) battleship construction. This is not too far from NASA. When I was a kid you could go all over NASA. Now it is pretty restricted. Someone (Japan?) still has a pre-dreadnought BB somewhere. And I think the WWII Alabama is still in Mobile.


Don't forget the BC Yavuz (sp?) in the Bosporus (Turkey). Former German BC Goeben, given to Turkey for siding with the Central Powers in WWI.

Was it broken up after it was decommissioned in 1970?

Ah, you are correct - Wiki says in 1973. Would have cool to have such old iron around ....






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(in reply to Zorch)
Post #: 26
RE: Arizona Memorial at Pearl Harbor closed indefinitely - 6/1/2018 7:35:04 PM   
rustysi


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Joined: 2/21/2012
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quote:

though the Texas is definitely the oldest US one afloat.


If not already, soon not to be afloat. She's rusted out so bad that they had to 'dry berth' her in a new project in order to preserve what's left.

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It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

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Post #: 27
RE: Arizona Memorial at Pearl Harbor closed indefinitely - 6/1/2018 8:20:21 PM   
Zorch

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

though the Texas is definitely the oldest US one afloat.


If not already, soon not to be afloat. She's rusted out so bad that they had to 'dry berth' her in a new project in order to preserve what's left.

The Olympia also has rust issues.

(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 28
RE: Arizona Memorial at Pearl Harbor closed indefinitely - 6/1/2018 8:21:26 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 5418
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch


quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

though the Texas is definitely the oldest US one afloat.


If not already, soon not to be afloat. She's rusted out so bad that they had to 'dry berth' her in a new project in order to preserve what's left.

The Olympia also has rust issues.


And she's a bit older too.


_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to Zorch)
Post #: 29
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