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RE: Desert War: Why Didn't You Buy?

 
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RE: Desert War: Why Didn't You Buy? - 7/8/2018 2:28:36 PM   
Numdydar

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bcgames

quote:

ORIGINAL: Numdydar
Its very simple for this game since naval units are not involved.

A trivial point...but Desert War does include naval units.

More significantly, a Campaign for North Africa that does not include a substantial naval component kinda misses the whole historical boat for a joint (air, land, sea) campaign about the control of the Mediterranean. How should we reconcile this requirement?



The whole naval system could simply be abstracted as many other games have done. CNA was not about control of the Med, it was about getting to the Oil.

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RE: Desert War: Why Didn't You Buy? - 7/8/2018 11:06:44 PM   
bcgames


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

Its very simple for this game since naval units are not involved.

You start with the Italians/British in 1940 and end in 1943. The DAK can arrive as a script or as a form of reinforcements.

Basically take the Campaign for North Africa board game https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/4815/campaign-north-africa and use this game system to replicate it.

I've got two copies of Campaign for North Africa and am seriously eyeing the re-do from Decision Games:

https://shop.decisiongames.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=P3034

If I had the time, money and permission, these are the board games I would computerize. They are the best representations of the Campaign for North Africa IMO...both named Mare Nostrum:

John Bannerman's Mare Nostrum:

https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/144677/tsww-mare-nostrum

or Joseph Miranda's Mare Nostrum: War in the Mediterranean:

https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/163062/mare-nostrum

I have both of them and have to say these games get The Med right for WWII. I prefer Joe's game cuz it is quicker to play.

I'm looking forward to playtesting Frank Chadwick's ETO: The Middle Sea by Victory Point Games sometime this fall.


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RE: Desert War: Why Didn't You Buy? - 7/11/2018 12:59:04 AM   
zyk0001

 

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I will be buying the game soon.

Right now I don't have detailed knowledge of what the game includes, but I do like monster scenarios and the scale of the game. I like the theater. I probably would have bought sooner if it had a campaign.

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RE: Desert War: Why Didn't You Buy? - 7/11/2018 10:16:38 PM   
harley9699


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My not-buying was simply due to the lack of a Campaign. Having played so many East Front/West Front, I simply don't have enough of this theater, which I enjoy immensely.

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RE: Desert War: Why Didn't You Buy? - 7/14/2018 3:03:13 AM   
Blond_Knight


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I enjoyed the free version, and helped beta test this version. But Im sorry to say I felt it was overpriced at $40.

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RE: Desert War: Why Didn't You Buy? - 7/18/2018 10:08:35 PM   
ETF


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bcgames

quote:

ORIGINAL: Franklin Nimitz

Maybe the larger scenarios would be easier to play if you could order entire formations to move together. Say clicking just on the Bde HQ and moving it, and the subunits all move in formation without needing to move them individually. Sort of like Command Ops for those familiar with that game.

I like this idea as well--but for all scenarios. Like Take Command: Second Manassas. Organization-based movement plotting...anyone else hold a similar view?


Excellent idea....I have seen this in other wargames. Reduces micromanagement.

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RE: Desert War: Why Didn't You Buy? - 7/18/2018 10:12:41 PM   
ETF


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Smirfy

I have not bought it yet because it is not on Steam. No Steam no buy


Second that. I have been burned before with Matrix games.....Have been around since the beginning. LOVE the idea of a return policy for STEAM. Mind you this game looks like a keeper for sure.

What is MP games like......just 1vs1 I take it?

Oh and what is the longest scenario?

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RE: Desert War: Why Didn't You Buy? - 7/19/2018 2:42:30 AM   
ivanov


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I didn't buy it because I'm not interested in a game that depicts series of battles, which requiere a huge amount of micromanagement. The units density is too big as for my taste, the large stacks also look discouraging. I'd prefer a North African game, that would be brigade/regimental scale, would focus on a bigger picture,strategy, logistics and manoeuvre. If the game was on Steam I'd buy it anyway but since it's not, I'm not going to do it.

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RE: Desert War: Why Didn't You Buy? - 7/19/2018 5:54:55 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bcgames

More significantly, a Campaign for North Africa that does not include a substantial naval component kinda misses the whole historical boat for a joint (air, land, sea) campaign about the control of the Mediterranean. How should we reconcile this requirement?

warspite1

+ 4billion.

The War in the Mediterranean needs to be gamed, and if it’s going to be gamed then it needs to be gamed properly. The War in the Mediterranean without the naval aspect is just a pale imitation of something that could be (and should be) wonderful. The theatre has the lot (only carrier vs carrier warfare is missing) and is begging to have the land, sea and air wars modelled properly. I’ve read some across these forums suggesting that naval warfare was not a feature of the Mediterranean theatre……but I think those who understand anything about the ETO know that to be total nonsense.

Control of the Med was not, of itself, absolutely vital for the British (although of course it would’ve made life a lot easier if they didn't need to have used precious shipping and time sending supplies round the Cape). Arguably though it was important as British abandonment of the Med would perhaps have only served to convince Franco that the British really were finished and that joining the Axis was the sensible thing to do. Who knows what effect it would have had on Vichy too? Secondly, its importance really came to the fore once WSC decided that Malta needed to be kept in the game. The amount of men, ships, aircraft and material generally that was expended in keeping the island in the war was huge.

For Italy (and then Germany) control of the Mediterranean was absolutely vital. It was needed first and foremost to supply and reinforce Axis troops in North Africa. Having done that it was hoped that Gibraltar, Malta and Suez would fall to the Axis and the sea would truly be Mare Nostrum and from which Italian hopes and aspirations would no longer be shackled by British control of the outlets at either end. After that was the oil of the near east.

How to reconcile the requirement? Make War in the Mediterranean in the mould (but with many differences) of War in the Pacific – AE. Obviously the land game would need a very different treatment from WITP-AE and there would hopefully be a massive cut down on the logistical chrome, but individual ships would be a basic requirement.

The War in the Mediterranean 1940-1943 done properly would complement all other monster games – and possibly surpass them given that this really is a scenario that could go either way…….



< Message edited by warspite1 -- 7/19/2018 5:55:38 PM >


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RE: Desert War: Why Didn't You Buy? - 7/20/2018 3:01:47 AM   
jzardos


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This is the type of game I might have bought before. I've learned to be more selective and it's paid off, literally. From what I've seen with this game there's just too many cons.

- way too much micro management --> clickfest
- interface is too clunky, maybe once over the learning curve it wouldn't be that bad? (need others to comment here)
- prefer more campaigns that tedious scenarios
- missing the important naval and other aspects that could have been somehow detailed or abstracted (Malta, etc.)

I'm ok with the NA theater, but my favorite theater would be the east front, with div/corps and WEGO . If this happens and some UI improvements, you'll have my $$.

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RE: Desert War: Why Didn't You Buy? - 7/20/2018 5:35:40 PM   
harley9699


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jzardos

This is the type of game I might have bought before. I've learned to be more selective and it's paid off, literally. From what I've seen with this game there's just too many cons.

- way too much micro management --> clickfest
- interface is too clunky, maybe once over the learning curve it wouldn't be that bad? (need others to comment here)
- prefer more campaigns that tedious scenarios
- missing the important naval and other aspects that could have been somehow detailed or abstracted (Malta, etc.)

I'm ok with the NA theater, but my favorite theater would be the east front, with div/corps and WEGO . If this happens and some UI improvements, you'll have my $$.


I could deal w/ the micromanagement.
I could deal w/ the interface.
But, it would have to have Campaign(s) and the naval part of the theater.
Said before, I have had plenty of East and West Fronts through the years. Was really looking forward to this one.
Until it came out lacking.
Are they even still working on it? Or have they already written this one off?

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RE: Desert War: Why Didn't You Buy? - 7/21/2018 12:43:22 AM   
bcgames


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quote:

ORIGINAL: harley9699

I could deal w/ the micromanagement.
I could deal w/ the interface.
But, it would have to have Campaign(s) and the naval part of the theater.
Said before, I have had plenty of East and West Fronts through the years. Was really looking forward to this one.
Until it came out lacking.
Are they even still working on it? Or have they already written this one off?

Thanks for taking the time to provide your feedback. Every little bit helps us improve the engine. We continue to support Desert War as published. But there's only one game engine out there right now that can do justice to The Mediterranean Theater and I hope Gary Grigsby and The Boys at 2BY3 are pursuing that avenue. Right after WITE2 of course...

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RE: Desert War: Why Didn't You Buy? - 7/23/2018 6:17:02 PM   
jhdeerslayer


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Once I get my anniversary coupon from Matrix soon, I am likely to pick this up.

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RE: Desert War: Why Didn't You Buy? - 8/1/2018 7:57:48 PM   
Huskalator

 

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I looked at screenshots and felt that it was just another wargame that was ugly, difficult to play due to poor UI, and probably had poor AI. I just expect more from my wargames these days.

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RE: Desert War: Why Didn't You Buy? - 8/2/2018 3:20:59 AM   
Rosseau

 

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So what would your favorite wargames be, Breakfast?

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RE: Desert War: Why Didn't You Buy? - 8/2/2018 9:15:25 PM   
Michael T


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I love the Desert Theatre. I did not buy because no campaign games.

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RE: Desert War: Why Didn't You Buy? - 8/5/2018 3:32:06 AM   
bcgames


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T

I love the Desert Theatre. I did not buy because no campaign games.

Thanks for the feedback. If you have the time, can you describe the campaign games you would have liked to have seen published with Desert War?

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RE: Desert War: Why Didn't You Buy? - 8/5/2018 9:18:19 PM   
Michael T


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Sure, scenario's that cover the period 1940-1943 or parts thereof. Say 1940-41 or 41-42 etc.
Having said that I realize that the scale of Desert War does not lend itself to the kind of game I seek. I think your game goes down to company level. I am thinking more division/brigade/regiment scale. Something akin to GDW's Desert War or The Gamers DAK. I have seen plenty of cardboard games on the North African war that cover the whole business but never a PC version. That was my initial hope for your game but I soon saw otherwise. I hope one day somebody might design and publish a PC North African game that lends itself to campaigns like I described above.

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RE: Desert War: Why Didn't You Buy? - 8/11/2018 12:51:53 AM   
scout1


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I started as a beta tester and struggled to figure out the game system .... and I am a long time gamer .....
lack of a campaign or LONG term scenario was a downer ..... really attracted to the WEGO approach .....

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RE: Desert War: Why Didn't You Buy? - 8/11/2018 4:28:29 AM   
bcgames


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quote:

ORIGINAL: scout1

I started as a beta tester and struggled to figure out the game system .... and I am a long time gamer .....
lack of a campaign or LONG term scenario was a downer ..... really attracted to the WEGO approach .....


Sorry to hear of your beta experience. Have things become more clear with the publication of the game, quick-start guide, manual, and tutorials? What other questions do you have on the subject?

Also sorry to say, there will never be a "long-term" scenario for Desert War at 3-turns per day. The immediate future for the engine is the Eastern Front @ 5-turns per day--scenarios short and sweet. I recommend looking to other, more capable game engines for your Full Med Experience. I am ever hopeful for a Gary Grigsby treatment of the topic. Fingers crossed.

Hope you can find the time to discover Desert War for what it is...warts and all.

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RE: Desert War: Why Didn't You Buy? - 8/11/2018 12:14:40 PM   
76mm


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jjdenver
One preview said that one of the game devs actually got angry (on a forum I think) at someone who didn't get the interface or didn't like the interface. This felt a bit weird and made me think the devs aren't really interested in helping customers enjoy the game so that put me off but just a bit.

I've seen this mentioned a couple of times now and want to say that I gave the dev quite a few comments over the years while the game was being developed and he was never anything but totally gracious and appreciative of feedback. Of course my feedback was in the vein of "constructive criticism" so if this previewer came across as an asshat troll, Brian might have reacted differently, dunno. But to argue that he is "not really interested in helping customers enjoy the game" is a real stretch...this thread would seem to prove that!

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RE: Desert War: Why Didn't You Buy? - 8/12/2018 3:35:18 AM   
Rusty1961

 

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No grand campaign. Sorry, this is 2018, not 1998.

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RE: Desert War: Why Didn't You Buy? - 8/12/2018 6:02:03 AM   
Tejszd

 

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Very tempted due to the WEGO system. Owned all the V for Victory and World At War games....

But haven’t bought this due to the following concerns;
1) java - prefer to have the least things installed. Especially that need/want to auto start, call home and needs updates to be secure.
2) number of clicks - prefer smaller scenarios or larger units. An option for all units to go to the HQ’s destination.
3) AI - does it being scripted hurt replay ability?
4) lack of campaign


< Message edited by Tejszd -- 8/12/2018 6:08:36 AM >

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RE: Desert War: Why Didn't You Buy? - 8/12/2018 11:46:53 AM   
Okayrun3254

 

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I am curious. What sort of "campaign" is expected? Are there any other solid games at this scale and time period that offer a "campaign"?

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RE: Desert War: Why Didn't You Buy? - 8/22/2018 6:50:59 PM   
KarlXII


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Thought of buying this with my anniversary coupon but choosed Piercing Fortress Europe due to the fact it had campaign mode and seemed a bit easier to learn.
Still thinking of buying this game if and when it goes for sale but lacking a campaign (the whole north africa 1940-1943 or at least smaller campaigns with linked scenarios) is a major downside for me.

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RE: Desert War: Why Didn't You Buy? - 9/5/2018 7:35:49 AM   
kch

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bcgames


quote:

ORIGINAL: scout1

I started as a beta tester and struggled to figure out the game system .... and I am a long time gamer .....
lack of a campaign or LONG term scenario was a downer ..... really attracted to the WEGO approach .....


Sorry to hear of your beta experience. Have things become more clear with the publication of the game, quick-start guide, manual, and tutorials? What other questions do you have on the subject?

Also sorry to say, there will never be a "long-term" scenario for Desert War at 3-turns per day. The immediate future for the engine is the Eastern Front @ 5-turns per day--scenarios short and sweet. I recommend looking to other, more capable game engines for your Full Med Experience. I am ever hopeful for a Gary Grigsby treatment of the topic. Fingers crossed.

Hope you can find the time to discover Desert War for what it is...warts and all.


Thanks for all the energy you have put into this game. Will the Eastern Front game track individual equipment (vehicles, artillery etc) in the units and tally up losses? I know that it is a detail, but I do like tonnes of stats in my games.

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RE: Desert War: Why Didn't You Buy? - 9/18/2018 9:02:41 PM   
canuckgamer

 

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Although I like the WEGO system I haven't bought the game yet because I don't like the look of the counters. I know, it sounds trivial but there is just something about the look of them that doesn't appeal to me. I may still end up buying it because when WEGO is done well like the Combat Mission series, it is the way to go for wargames.

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RE: Desert War: Why Didn't You Buy? - 9/20/2018 7:13:08 AM   
bcgames


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quote:

ORIGINAL: canuckgamer
Although I like the WEGO system I haven't bought the game yet because I don't like the look of the counters.

Thanks for the feedback. How would you change the look of the counters?


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RE: Desert War: Why Didn't You Buy? - 9/20/2018 7:45:56 AM   
Firebri


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Have a look at the counters, used in LnL Heroes of Stalingrad.

The are quite smart.

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RE: Desert War: Why Didn't You Buy? - 9/20/2018 7:53:46 AM   
bcgames


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I'll have a look. Thanks.

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