Desert War: Why Didn't You Buy?

[bcgames]

I'm working on the requirements document for the next game using the Desert War Engine (DWE) and have a very important question for you to answer--why didn't you buy Desert War? Was it the topic? Was it the scale? Was it the documentation? Was it the AI? Size of the scenarios? The reviews? The use of Old School hex system? Pasta? No Pasta? What? Let me know your views.

[Erik2]

I did buy the game ([;)]), but if I had not it would be for the following reason:
Most of the scenarios have a very large number of units, looks like 200-300 is the norm (?).
I would think that non-grognard players may have issues with this.
So maybe regimental versions (with the occasional battalion) of the scenarios would help?
It would take a fair bit of editing, but removing stuff is easier than adding.

[laska2k8]

considering to buy but still not convinced.
my pros:
- the wego system.
- the scale
- the editor (if allows a complete scenario creation, not only dlc based)

my cons
- theatre, not a fan of desert combat. I prefer western front, I look for "bulge" in every game I buy.

a little cosmetic failure, the chit graphic, as the light coming SE the counter seems recessed.

[76mm]

I've been following and supporting this game for a long time, and my only reason for not buying yet is that I've been too busy with moving house and some other things to play any games lately. Plan to pick it up at some point.

[Saint Ruth]

I just moved house too. I feel your pain!
Cheers,
Brian

[salazarus]

I'm not interested in that theatre. I love WEGO system so I will probably grab this game on sale.

[Yogi the Great]

I did buy but as time goes on and others become more aware of the game here are some reasons (you've already heard some of them)

Yes large scenarios take a long time to play

The game mechanics are different and time has to be invested to figure it out (learn game)

Even once you think you have at least the basics enough to play, the game is tedious to play. Takes a lot of time, a lot of attention, a lot of clicks which for some means a loss of interest and going to other games or back to your favorites.

Now with that said, the game system is certainly interesting, innovative and has a lot of potential. It will have a loyal following. The question will be can you get enough interested and willing to take the time to buy. You might want to consider finding ways of streamlining so to speak the system and amount of time and detail it takes to do a turn. Thinking of what it takes to do a small scenario it is really hard to think of a large one. Player potentially takes a look at a large scenario and says, yeah maybe some day I'll try it, but not today.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: bcgames

I'm working on the requirements document for the next game using the Desert War Engine (DWE) and have a very important question for you to answer--why didn't you buy Desert War? Was it the topic? Was it the scale? Was it the documentation? Was it the AI? Size of the scenarios? The reviews? The use of Old School hex system? Pasta? No Pasta? What? Let me know your views.

warspite1

Not quite answering your question but I bought it because of the topic - I want more game of this massively under-appreciated theatre and so wanted to show support.

That said I wasn't thrilled with the lack of a campaign game. The Desert War 1940-43 featuring land sea and air from Gib to Suez is begging to be wargamed - a game that either side could win, a game that has absolutely everything (except carrier vs carrier battles).

[Meteor2]

I haven`t bought yet. Main reasons to be reluctant are
- lack of a campaign (see warspite1)
- the feeling (maybe wrong), that the AI is scripted heavily and so the replayability is not great (please convince me otherwise)
- the number of units in a standard scenario (?), but that's only a very minor complaint.

The wego system seems to be an innovation, so I would like that.
The theatre is not wrong either.

By the way and I know, that a comparison is nearly impossible:
A game, that makes a lot of things right, is Strategic command. It is a "only one more turn" game, even in the middle of the night. [:D]
Flexibility, tons of decisions, land/air/sea, appropriate/nice graphics, unlimited replayability, mods and support, ...

[Okayrun3254]

I bought the game, but it is interesting to hear opinions of people who did not.

[Kolbex]

I have not (yet) bought for the following reasons, in ascending order of importance:

* price (it is what it is and I understand why these kinds of games cost so much, but it's a factor for me personally at this time)
* smallish number of scenarios
* apparent busywork required for many or most of the scenarios included, meaning orders have to be given to each chit individually, including individual allocation of supply level, if I've understood correctly

I've seen a few wargames do it "right," in my opinion, i.e. not forcing the player to attend to every little detail: Command Ops 2 puts the computer in charge of the majority of organizational minutiae, the player largely gives broad orders and lets the machine figure out the details; Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm limits the number of orders you can give in a turn, forcing you to think and plan ahead but most importantly reducing the tedium of individual turns (units continue under previously received, not yet completed orders and act on their own initiative [fighting/retreating] under enemy contact); Campaigns on the Danube 1805 & 1809 likewise gives a great deal of initiative to the subordinate AI and in addition has a stellar fog of war option that really fits the flavor of the period.

All of these are WEGO (well, CO2 is pausable real time). Actually, the overwhelming reason I am interested in Desert War is the WEGO nature of turn resolution. I'll likely never play an IGOUGO wargame ever again.

[76mm]

ORIGINAL: warspite1
That said I wasn't thrilled with the lack of a campaign game. The Desert War 1940-43 featuring land sea and air from Gib to Suez is begging to be wargamed - a game that either side could win, a game that has absolutely everything (except carrier vs carrier battles).

While I could see why you'd want such a game, that is a totally different animal from this game, which focuses on a totally different scale.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: 76mm

ORIGINAL: warspite1
That said I wasn't thrilled with the lack of a campaign game. The Desert War 1940-43 featuring land sea and air from Gib to Suez is begging to be wargamed - a game that either side could win, a game that has absolutely everything (except carrier vs carrier battles).

While I could see why you'd want such a game, that is a totally different animal from this game, which focuses on a totally different scale.

warspite1

Yes I know, the second part of my post needed to be taken in context with the first. As to whether this game could have featured a larger campaign (though not the total Med War) - I'm sure it could, but can see why it wasn't attempted. From comments in previous threads I think the lack of a campaign of any sort did put people off.

[Saint Ruth]

ORIGINAL: Kolbex
* apparent busywork required for many or most of the scenarios included, meaning orders have to be given to each chit individually, including individual allocation of supply level, if I've understood correctly

Supply is allocated per HQ and there's an option to include subordinate HQs. So you could set the supply level for the entire army in one go.
You can move all the units in a stack in one go too.
But I get your point. You cannot say move 21st Panzer to a destination hex and have the AI move each individual unit.
Thanks for the feedback,
Brian

[Kolbex]

ORIGINAL: Saint Ruth
Supply is allocated per HQ and there's an option to include subordinate HQs. So you could set the supply level for the entire army in one go.

That's good to know. Still hoping to pick this one up at some point.

[Fred98]

The screen shots do not show any shortcut way to gather information.

It looks like "work" instead of enjoyable wargame.

I am a fan of SSG's game series.

[Rosseau]

I bought it on release, got the patch, but still haven't built up the energy to learn the mechanics. In fact, after years away, I'm stuck playing the SSG Battles in Italy "Kharkov" scenario. Had no idea it would hook me again.

I know I'll love DW due to the Editor, mostly. With a new and intermediate/advanced game system, anything to ease the learning curve, and I know there are good AARs, videos and tutorials already. Going East Front and tackling slices of the big battles could be one way to add interest. But I still think the initial North Africa focus was a good first move.

[FredSanford3]

Maybe the larger scenarios would be easier to play if you could order entire formations to move together. Say clicking just on the Bde HQ and moving it, and the subunits all move in formation without needing to move them individually. Sort of like Command Ops for those familiar with that game.

[kch]

I haven’t bought due three things mainly. 1) feedback regarding the ai where some of the feedback seems to be that it sometimes is non responsive to player actions. (But I must admit that I don’t know whether it was just an isolated case). 2) lack of a campaign 3) lack of detailed oob with equipment and manpower counts. I know it is a bit irrelevant but I like to know that I have 103 matildas, 256 25pdr etc and all served by x number of men.

[MrLongleg]

I bought the game and I think the game engine is excellent, and it really shines in PBEM. The AI needs some work, or we need a more active PBEM community. It is quite hard to find opponents.