Is it ok to save a Pbem game mid turn?

[Ktonos]

I found that I'm taking about 2 hours to finish a turn, at least in the first summer where every counter on the map must move. During this period I want to save the game as I am terrified of a random crash would destroy so much unsaved work. I've even got paranoid and got to fear a blackout (last blackout was two years back).

Is this ok? Can the server make a distinction between saving a game and deliberately closing it without saving for save scumming purposes? Because I was scouting the forums and spotted instances were people were reprimanded for exiting their games before sending their turns.

[Stelteck]

Yes, i do it all the time. You save and you reload later. Perfectly fine and legit.

[thedoctorking]

There's nothing wrong with saving the game and reloading later. I certainly don't have two or three hours of uninterrupted time to complete a turn in a CG very often. AFAIK, the server doesn't have any way to tell the difference between you saving at 1200 and going out for lunch, resuming your game at 1400 and you saving at 1200, restarting, playing for two hours, not liking the results you got, quitting without saving, and reloading from your old save to try a different approach. Not doing the latter is called playing fair.

If I do have some unanticipated interruption in play - power goes out, for example, or I get up and walk away from my laptop and the battery dies (happened a few weeks ago) - that causes me to have to repeat some portion of a turn that I had already played, I always inform my opponent. And I try, as best I can remember, to repeat the moves I already made.

Ultimately, fair play comes down to trusting your opponent. If you suspect someone is cheating (winning every single battle at odds of 2.01 to 1, for example), you just concede the game and don't play that person any more.

[Telemecus]

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking
AFAIK, the server doesn't have any way to tell the difference between you saving at 1200 and going out for lunch, resuming your game at 1400 and you saving at 1200, restarting, playing for two hours, not liking the results you got, quitting without saving, and reloading from your old save to try a different approach. Not doing the latter is called playing fair.

I understand the server does do a count of saves and loads. If the number of loads over saves gets excessive it can trigger a warning....

On the PBEM side there is not a problem with saving mid way in the game and restarting the game later either. Clearly if you go back to an earlier save in PBEM there is no way of checking for this anywhere else, but if to have another go given a bad die roll or given new information you did not have before the turn it would be defeating the point of the game.

[Ktonos]

Ok guys, thanks for the info. Anyways people populating these games are usually mature.

[thedoctorking]

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking
AFAIK, the server doesn't have any way to tell the difference between you saving at 1200 and going out for lunch, resuming your game at 1400 and you saving at 1200, restarting, playing for two hours, not liking the results you got, quitting without saving, and reloading from your old save to try a different approach. Not doing the latter is called playing fair.

I understand the server does do a count of saves and loads. If the number of loads over saves gets excessive it can trigger a warning....

On the PBEM side there is not a problem with saving mid way in the game and restarting the game later either. Clearly if you go back to an earlier save in PBEM there is no way of checking for this anywhere else, but if to have another go given a bad die roll or given new information you did not have before the turn it would be defeating the point of the game.

Ah, you learn something new every day!

And how would I access this information?

[Telemecus]

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking
And how would I access this information?

If you mean the counts of loads and saves I am not sure you can - although someone who regularly plays server games may know better. I guess getting a warning is information that one is much higher than the other.

[tyronec]

Ah, you learn something new every day!

And how would I access this information?

Raise a query on the Matrix helpdesk. They will not give you the data however if your opponent has been doing an excessive number of reloads they may let you know.
Putting 2 and 2 together I think people do get banned from server games.

[thedoctorking]

And I guess opening the game on the server, looking at the position (without making any moves), and then quitting without saving is a bad idea. I know I've been guilty of this.

[beender]

Put it another way, the only legitimate ways to quit a server game, is to save or next turn.

[Telemecus]

From the description the others have given it seems there is some leeway given to things like this. I am guessing this sort of behaviour is pretty common? So they must have some sort of behaviour algorithm to guess when it is abuse and when it is just mistaken use. It might mean they only look for a rate of reloading turns rather than a total number? I guess the sensible thing is just never to do it intentionally, and press save every time you log off when you know.

[beender]

yes its not a zero tolerance strict rule. I quitted without saving once or twice and never received a warning.

On the other hand one of the players from the Chinese wite chatgroup has just got his account suspended, so definitely somebody is watching.

[Telemecus]

[thedoctorking]

[:D]

[thedoctorking]

It does really suck that you can't hit the back button if you fat-finger a move and something has happened. Moving a bunch of regiments around to different spots, I managed to have two guys selected and they both went where only one was wanted. There was a stupid interdiction by two enemy planes. Now I can't put the other guy back where he's supposed to be. Not annoying enough to cancel the turn but in some circumstances it could cost you units.

[tyronec]

It does really suck that you can't hit the back button if you fat-finger a move and something has happened. Moving a bunch of regiments around to different spots, I managed to have two guys selected and they both went where only one was wanted. There was a stupid interdiction by two enemy planes. Now I can't put the other guy back where he's supposed to be. Not annoying enough to cancel the turn but in some circumstances it could cost you units.

That's war - guess if you put your head up and a sniper got it there was no second chance...

[STEF78]

When WITE was released my daughters were still at home and the computer was a "family computer".

It happened that they closed my session or switched off the computer. I then received a message from matrix, answered it and warned my daughters.

I didn't get any other message for at least 4/5 years

On the other side I never play PBEM (I did one exception for Loki100). It's to easy to cheat without being caught.