DW Mod: The Italian Pasta Rule

[bcgames]

Nobody has posted to the mod section so I'll kick-off the show with an all-time favorite--Campaign for North Africa's Italian Pasta Rule...Rule [52.6] to be exact. This legendary board game mechanic ranks right up there with the Hans Rudel counter in Europa's Unentschieden/Scorched Earth.

[bcgames]

To use this image in your user-created scenarios/mods, paste it into the folder at:

C:Program Files (x86)/Matrix Games/Desert War 1940-1942/Images/picsGrdAsset0

Use the editor/Ground Asset Tab to include The Italian Pasta Rule in your creations. I'd start with a +1 command asset as a possible homage to Campaign for North Africa. All the scenarios include the Italian Army and Air Force so any one that suits your fancy will do.

[giffin]

Hi BCGames was there an actual scenario to download or just the Jpg image? If not, do you have any custom scenarios you can upload here for us to try?

[bcgames]

Sorry. Just the image.

[giffin]

ORIGINAL: bcgames

Sorry. Just the image.

Has anyone been able to make any new scenarios yet if so post them here so we can try them out.[&o]

[ADMIRAL3]

I am Italian, my grandfather (born under Austria in Trentino) joined the Italian army in 1915 and took part to I WW - then served in africa - then in II WW; my father was in albania and greece during II WW , my uncle served in the 3rd Bersaglieri Rgt. and died on the Don frontline. This issue is an insult to all of them and to all the italians which served with honour and discipline in the military. I am a retired Admiral who served for 45years in the Italian Navy and Armed Forces, proudly and onestly. The item you have raised is a nonsense and the aim is as usual to throw mud on the Italian military. The real problem in 2nd WW was the weak chain of Command of the italian troops without adequate manning in the HQ staffs. Of course "VAE VICTIS" and the winner can write his own history... ADM Luigi Binelli Mantelli sends (former CHOD of Italian Armed Forces)

[Saint Ruth]

ORIGINAL: ADMIRAL3

I am Italian, my grandfather (born under Austria in Trentino) joined the Italian army in 1915 and took part to I WW - then served in africa - then in II WW; my father was in albania and greece during II WW , my uncle served in the 3rd Bersaglieri Rgt. and died on the Don frontline. This issue is an insult to all of them and to all the italians which served with honour and discipline in the military. I am a retired Admiral who served for 45years in the Italian Navy and Armed Forces, proudly and onestly. The item you have raised is a nonsense and the aim is as usual to throw mud on the Italian military. The real problem in 2nd WW was the weak chain of Command of the italian troops without adequate manning in the HQ staffs. Of course "VAE VICTIS" and the winner can write his own history... ADM Luigi Binelli Mantelli sends (former CHOD of Italian Armed Forces)

Well, of course that rule is not in this Desert War game .
Our intent in Desert War was always to highlight the large Italian-British battles from Operation E to the likes of Battle of Bir el Gubi (an Italian victory), as these actions are largely ignored in popular Anglo-Saxon history. And of course the Folgore and Ariete among others fought very well.
Best Regards,
Brian

[ADMIRAL3]

TY Brian. Got it. Our common European history even if full of tragedies is our heritage and demands respect. Best Regards. LBM

[Rasputitsa]

Water supply is a vital part of desert warfare and I have just finished reading ‘Pipeline to Battle : An Engineers Adventures with the British Eighth Army’ – Amazon Kindle. This is not history, but a personal memoir of the officer who became known as the ‘water man’, written soon after the events with all the pride and prejudice of war, from one man’s view of great events.

One advantage for the British in withdrawing all the way back to El Alamein after the Gazala battles, was that the army could be supplied with water, by pipeline connected directly into the city supply of Alexandria.

The supply of fresh water direct to the fighting lines was a huge boost to morale, it is not a matter of respect, or bravery, no one can operate in the desert without adequate water supplies. The Axis had to bring water over long distances to the front line and there are cases of units surrendering through lack of water.

The Desert Airforce (RAF) dropped water to Italian units cut-off and without supply, as Axis forces started to withdraw from the Alamein battlefield.

The pace of the Eighth Army pursuit was partially governed by the availability of good water, with existing pipeline being repaired and extended, additional pumping capacity provided and engineers with drilling equipment travelling with the fighting units.

Similar comments are made on the need of the British 'tommy' to have his regular brew of tea, but don't know how that would fit in the rules.[:)]

Water supply has to be a significant part of the game, with, or without pasta.

[ADMIRAL3]

Better without spaghetti, macaroni, tea or coffee bags. logistic is paramount water is part of logistic as well.
Suggest to close this issue and to discuss more serious topics

[Rasputitsa]

I agree that the subject of tea, or pasta, is frivolous, but the discussion on water supply is critical, you can restrict the use of ammunition, or fuel, by restricting/limiting operations. However, without sufficient water a unit become non-operational very quickly.

Water is something additional to logistics which otherwise can be variable, water at a reliable minimum level is essential under all circumstances.

One day without food, or fuel, is unfortunate, one day without water in desert warfare is catastrophic.

[ADMIRAL3]

Ty for your insight. I do not like polemics. However the issue posed initially was clearly different. What about if someone rises the proposal to disrupt cohesion of Brit Units if they cannot have their tea or US for coffee (that requires much more water than the italian espresso) ? Do you really think that the men of Ariete division will cease combat if lacking their daily "macaroni"? In the north of Italy pasta was almost unknown at that time....
Now the discussion is shifted on technical logistics, but this was not the aim of who started the issue. That's the reason I felt insulted as italian. Don't pull my leg please.
VAE VICTIS..!!!

[Rasputitsa]

The original theme was additional penalties/rules for use, or lack of water, even though the subject was introduced at a frivolous level.

I was merely pointing out that all nations suffer from some prejudice about their national characteristics, although I mentioned British tea drinking in jest, as an example. However, my father who was with the Eighth Army in WW2 was always fond of many cups of tea throughout the day, which eventually meant that I cannot face the drink, but this does not suggest any lack of courage by these men, of either side.

However, water is a serious subject in respect to desert warfare and I thought that it might warrant serious discussion and I note the book title in my earlier post, as a source of information which does not often appear in many histories, which are more concerned with strategies and politics.

Water supply became an important factor in the 1967 Six Day War, where the Egyptian forces were seriously handicapped by lack of water, although they did not lack other forms of supply.

I have only begun to work through the detail of this game, but suggest that water supply may be a factor of special consideration and a valid discussion point. I leave it to others with more experience in the game system to consider whether this is relevant.

[Mac Linehan]

Admiral3 -

My sincere respect, Sir, for your and your families' honorable service for your country.

As there does not seem to be another means of private communication, I will post on this forum.

Could I trouble you, Sir, to recommend any books on the Italian Armed Forces or histories of the First or Second World Wars?

I regret to say that I do not speak Italian; a book would have to be an English translation.

I would be most grateful for your consideration, Admiral.

Gentlemen - Thank You for your patience. I have not yet purchased Desert War, but will do so in the near future, probably during the Christmas Sale.
My main focus is on War in the Pacific, Admiral's Edition.

Respectfully,

Mac Linehan

[ADMIRAL3]

Mac Linehan
Sir, I really appreciate your consideration. As far as Your interests in Italian War History I do have a considerable literature. However it is in Italian
as You may guess. I'll do my best to answer as soon as I gather any useful info. I'll also reccommend You this game which I consider very well
structured and challenging. Please accept my Best regards. LBM

[Mac Linehan]

Admiral3-

Thank You for your reply and recommendation, I will purchase Desert War!

Edit: Just purchased and downloaded. Gents - I know that Desert War is a good game; Admiral3's recommendation, from his perspective as a professional military Man, was the final touch.

Admiral3, after 10 years of service in the USN, and another 10.5 in the USMC, I also am fortunate to have collected books over the years and blessed to have a small library.
Your reference to your library caused me to think of books that I have on Italy's involvement in World Wars one and two. Here are several books, that I can immediately recall:

> "Submarines of World War two;" Eminio Bagnasco. An excellent reference on the various navy's submarine classes and design.

> "Mussolini and His Generals;" John Gooch. I have not yet read this one.

> "A Soldier of the Southern Front;" Emilio Lussu, Kindle. His experiences on the Isonzo front, WW1; considered a classic. Admiral3, I would be interested in your thoughts, if you have read this book.

> "British Battle Tanks: World War 1 to 1939;" David Fletcher, Kindle. Absolutely outstanding and very detailed; if you want to know how tank design first started and it's evolution because of combat experience, this is the book to read.

> "British Battle Tanks: British - made tanks of World War II;" David Fletcher, Kindle. This is next on my read list and very germane to Desert War.

> "The Great War: A Combat History of the First World War;" Peter Hart, Kindle. Just finished reading; an excellent, thorough and very readable treatment of combat in the major theaters of the war. Admiral3- Mr. Hart covers, in detail, Italy's political struggle as to which course to take; and side to join.

> "Pandora's Box;" Leonhard Jorn, Kindle. Released in 2018, this is a German Historian's perspective on the First World War. I read it along with Peter Hart's "The First World War;" Mr. Leonhard covers a wider view - military operations plus the political, social, economic factors and their effects on each of the combatants.

> "The Desert Generals;" Correlli Barnett. "A brilliant picture of the leading personalities in the North African campaign from start to finish, and of their performance - vividly written and intensely interesting." Liddell Hart. End Quote. I would highly recommend this book, it delivers as stated. I have an original 1960 (very battered!) paperback copy; just bought and downloaded from Kindle.

I have numerous books on tank design and operations. I am currently focused on World War One.

> When I had to take a brief break from the First World War: "Afgansty: The Russians in Afghanistan 1979- 89;" Rodric Braithwaite, Kindle. A very scholarly treatment of the subject; Mr. Braithwaite covers all aspects of the war, including combat, social and political effects.

Gents - I do not mean to hijack this thread, and will start a new thread in this forum if appropriate.

Thank You all for you patience and consideration.

Should any Forum Members have any reading recommendations, please let me know.

Edit: Mr. Kelly, I just read your very informative "Interview with the Dev's" post and am not surprised to see that you have read "Desert Generals." There is absolutely no doubt that you and your Team have done your research; I will learn much from the game and data included. My respect to you and your Team, Sir.

Mac

[Saint Ruth]

Hi Mac,

I hope you enjoy the game!

There was a previous thread on books here:

tm.asp?m=4458577

It's be great if you (or ADMIRAL3) could add any book recommendations there.

Many thanks,
/Brian

[ADMIRAL3]

K

[Mac Linehan]

Brian -

Thank You for your recommendation and will do!

Gents - I apologize for the delay in responding to the above posts.

Mac