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interdiction NEWBIE - 4/9/2018 3:11:58 PM   
tonyscrase

 

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I never use my aircraft to interdict hexes. I prefer to attack enemy units and cause a few casualties I am sure this is a very simplistic use of bombers.

I am about to play play breakout and pursuit
a) should I be interdicting hexes
b) if so what proportion of my air arm should i use
c) does it matter what altitude is flown at

THANK YOU AND TO ALL THOSE WHO HAVE KINDLY HELPED ME WITH PREVIOUS PROBLEMS
Post #: 1
RE: interdiction NEWBIE - 4/9/2018 3:51:58 PM   
cfulbright

 

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According to the game designers, you should only use "unit" attack if you don't plan to also attack that unit in the ground phase. If you do plan to attack it, use "interdict". Interdict also will damage the unit when it retreats through an interdicted hex.

For altitude, distinguish between level bombers and fighter bombers. LB's bomb from the altitude at which you set the mission, so you're trading off a lower altitude with more accuracy and damage for higher flak losses. Use Shift-O twice to see how much low and high altitude flak is in the hex you're targetting.

FB's dive bomb, so you can set altitude to 19K' and they will still release at low altitude.

Cary

(in reply to tonyscrase)
Post #: 2
RE: interdiction NEWBIE - 4/9/2018 3:58:33 PM   
loki100


Posts: 5057
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Lochan nan balgair-dudh
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: tonyscrase

I never use my aircraft to interdict hexes. I prefer to attack enemy units and cause a few casualties I am sure this is a very simplistic use of bombers.

I am about to play play breakout and pursuit
a) should I be interdicting hexes
b) if so what proportion of my air arm should i use
c) does it matter what altitude is flown at

THANK YOU AND TO ALL THOSE WHO HAVE KINDLY HELPED ME WITH PREVIOUS PROBLEMS



a) Yes
b) the majority
c) take the default 15,000'

Why:

Interdiction is the single most effective mission you have. As you not flying directly at the enemy (as you do on a unit attack), you are marginally less open to flak. It hits all movement - and there is a surprising amount of movement. So all those trucks running around with supplies get hammered (even if no unit actually moves), replacements arriving get hammered etc.

If the unit moves it suffers from the interdiction - movement can be to attack, a reserve reaction or a retreat as well as normal movement. So if you plaster a unit with interdiction you partly isolate it from supply/replacement and if it retreats you maximise losses. Stick interdiction on top of suspected reserves and they can have a really bad week if they react to support a combat and a bit later if you can reach them and make them retreat.

In the Breakout scenario (and France 1944 more generally), all your FBs should be doing interdiction, especially if you can arm them with rockets. Use your 2 engined bombers for direct attacks on units (if you also want to do this - they are surprisingly useful in that role). Keep some back for Ground support but its interdiction that will break the back of the Wehrmacht.

Take the default 15,000' setting. They fly into low level to execute the mission. You don't have anything like a Soviet Sturmovik (where flying at 1,000' is surprisingly effective) so don't risk going in too low. The gain with the 1,000' trick is you duck under almost all flak and most fighter opposition (which is not a concern in France) but trade off more operational losses. It works due to the armour of the Il-2 and its weapon systems.

_____________________________

AARs:
WiTW: Once Upon a Time (somewhere)in the West; Fischia il vento; (oh) For a few Panzers More; XXX Corps Diary; Infamy, Infamy!
Others at AGEOD
PoN: A clear bright sun

(in reply to tonyscrase)
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RE: interdiction NEWBIE - 4/16/2018 1:02:28 PM   
Bobbybat

 

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So in a situation like the Breakout and Pursuit scenario where the Axis have some serious unit stacks, is it best to 'prep' for a turn before launching a big attack on one of those stacks - e.g. do some interdiction in and around the hex, as well as some unit attacking?

(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 4
RE: interdiction NEWBIE - 4/16/2018 1:10:42 PM   
loki100


Posts: 5057
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Lochan nan balgair-dudh
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobbybat

So in a situation like the Breakout and Pursuit scenario where the Axis have some serious unit stacks, is it best to 'prep' for a turn before launching a big attack on one of those stacks - e.g. do some interdiction in and around the hex, as well as some unit attacking?


Since you have the airpower, I'd opt for a 2 mission solution. Use FBs and plaster those hexes and the surrounds (ie a 1 hex wide mission) with interdiction. That will hurt any attempt to gain supply and cripple them if they move.

If you want the hex (ie its on the front line and you need to go via that hex), then mix this with a 'unit' mission. What this will do is inflict a lot of disruption/damaged elements. The advantage is these elements then cannot take part in any ground combat, so the stack is actually weaker than it appears - you'll see this in the combat results as a massive drop off in effective combat values.

For 'unit' missions, I often find 2 engined bombers are quite good.

If you lacked the massive airpower of the Western Allies, and could spare the time, I'd simply use interdiction to weaken them before attacking in a couple of turns.

_____________________________

AARs:
WiTW: Once Upon a Time (somewhere)in the West; Fischia il vento; (oh) For a few Panzers More; XXX Corps Diary; Infamy, Infamy!
Others at AGEOD
PoN: A clear bright sun

(in reply to Bobbybat)
Post #: 5
RE: interdiction NEWBIE - 4/16/2018 10:40:48 PM   
bomccarthy


Posts: 298
Joined: 9/6/2013
From: L.A.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobbybat

So in a situation like the Breakout and Pursuit scenario where the Axis have some serious unit stacks, is it best to 'prep' for a turn before launching a big attack on one of those stacks - e.g. do some interdiction in and around the hex, as well as some unit attacking?


Since you have the airpower, I'd opt for a 2 mission solution. Use FBs and plaster those hexes and the surrounds (ie a 1 hex wide mission) with interdiction. That will hurt any attempt to gain supply and cripple them if they move.

If you want the hex (ie its on the front line and you need to go via that hex), then mix this with a 'unit' mission. What this will do is inflict a lot of disruption/damaged elements. The advantage is these elements then cannot take part in any ground combat, so the stack is actually weaker than it appears - you'll see this in the combat results as a massive drop off in effective combat values.

For 'unit' missions, I often find 2 engined bombers are quite good.

If you lacked the massive airpower of the Western Allies, and could spare the time, I'd simply use interdiction to weaken them before attacking in a couple of turns.


For unit bombing of highly stacked hexes, you may also want to use heavy bombers (dropping high explosives). The Allies used 8th AF and Bomber Command to bomb the defensive line prior to an an attack on several occasions besides Cobra (in July 1944). In most instances, more than 500 heavies would drop their bombs from less than 10,000 ft.

I also use the heavies as prep bombardment of invasion beaches. When carpet bombing units with heavies, I usually bomb on day 1 and sometimes day 2 of the turn of the ground attack. Heavy bombers are similarly useful for hitting surrounded units in a fortified port, although I often bomb the units for 2+ turns before sending in the ground attack (supported by 1 or more naval gunfire support TFs).

(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 6
RE: interdiction NEWBIE - 4/27/2018 2:20:53 AM   
Bobbybat

 

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How does one control how much Interdiction is done - people above and other posts talk about the 'mix' of Ground Support - I can't quite pick where one specifies a Ground Support mission or Directive perhaps to be Interdiction or something else? What am I missing?

(in reply to bomccarthy)
Post #: 7
RE: interdiction NEWBIE - 4/27/2018 6:09:21 AM   
loki100


Posts: 5057
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Lochan nan balgair-dudh
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobbybat

How does one control how much Interdiction is done - people above and other posts talk about the 'mix' of Ground Support - I can't quite pick where one specifies a Ground Support mission or Directive perhaps to be Interdiction or something else? What am I missing?


There are two types of tactical air mission in the directives. One is called Ground attack and then has a range of sub-missions, such as interdiction but also includes rail yard bombing. The other is ground support which you allocate to a HQ (the HQ can be anything from a particular corps to the supreme command).

There are three ways to allocate the planes.

If you are using the AI to construct your directives you give say Ground Attack-Interdiction the highest priority and Ground Support a lower one. The AI does a pretty good choice of which planes it allocates to which.

If you do manual Air Directives, there are two options. If you don't allocate planes, the routine will use them as it needs - given the sequence of play this means that ground attack is carried out first and ground support in the land movement phase. This is surprisingly efficient as it means that the same plane can be used in more than one air directive.

Finally you can specify which planes take place in which air directive. In this case they will only fly in the designated directive but you have the knowledge that you will still have planes for say Ground Support and you know which these will be.

All have good/bad pts, depends in a way how much control you want to use for the air war.

_____________________________

AARs:
WiTW: Once Upon a Time (somewhere)in the West; Fischia il vento; (oh) For a few Panzers More; XXX Corps Diary; Infamy, Infamy!
Others at AGEOD
PoN: A clear bright sun

(in reply to Bobbybat)
Post #: 8
RE: interdiction NEWBIE - 4/27/2018 7:57:57 AM   
Bobbybat

 

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Ok that all makes sense. As I am reasonably new to the game I don't want to get involved in too much micro-management when the AI does a pretty decent job apparently.

It appears to me that the AI doesn't create as many air directives as it COULD though based on the number of AD's each HQ could have based on the leader's air/admin ratings...Is this so it has enough groups not committed each turn that it can rotate them around and keep them fresh/trained/topped up or is there some other factor in play?

Based on the response to that question, is it a good idea - and certainly I would think one should make the most of the available assets at critical times/turns in the scenario like the initial one or two turns in Breakout where the WA need to bust a couple of holes in the line and start trying to cut units off - to then go and add a few more yourself, selectively targeting where you know you're going to lance through?

(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 9
RE: interdiction NEWBIE - 4/27/2018 10:49:42 AM   
LiquidSky


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Joined: 6/24/2008
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I learned how to create and use air directives by playing (and replaying) the first turn of the breakout scenario...over and over again.

I experimented with different things..tried different altitudes...different size boxes. How the different aircraft performed.

It was invaluable experience. After awhile you get a feel for how interdiction works...and how many times you can push your planes.

You don't have to use up the maximum number of air directives an HQ is entitled to. In fact, I rarely do.

What you need to practice with is Altitude settings....some planes perform better at diffent altitudes. I actually use the google/wiki for unfamiliar planes.. It gives a ballpark.

Don't bother changing the load-outs. AUTO is fine.

You should play around with assigning the squadrons...and what days they fly...and their priority targets. Although you can leave that on AUTO as well for the first few tries. But it's good to see the difference between a level bomber like the Mitchells and fighter bombers like the Typhoons...

Look at the combat reports afterwards. Notice if you overkilled the mission. You can see if the damage tapers off as the week goes by. Notice if Flak played a part. Enemy intercepts probably won't.

The basic steps to flying air yourself are:

1) Set up a RECON mission over the area you want to bomb. Just fly at 24k feet as the planes will adjust up or down to match camera. Fly everyday.

2) Set up the mission. Leave AUTO on at first...then try changing altitude up or down. Then try sending only one type of plane.... Fly only on alternate days. D1-D3-D5-D7 or D2-D4-D6. Even try just two days. Like D2 and D6

3) Study the results.


_____________________________

“My logisticians are a humorless lot … they know if my campaign fails, they are the first ones I will slay.” – Alexander the Great

(in reply to Bobbybat)
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