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To Bad this IA and developers - 4/8/2018 11:11:10 PM   
Zecke


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** Moderated **

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< Message edited by IainMcNeil -- 4/9/2018 3:43:27 PM >


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RE: To Bad this IA and developers - 4/9/2018 2:39:18 PM   
Hubert Cater

 

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Zecke, as mentioned before please feel free to send any turns in question to us at support@furysoftware.com and we'll be happy to take a look and confirm either a bug or explain the misunderstanding on your part.

Continuing to complain that the AI is cheating over and over again in various threads will not resolve things for you and at worst simply spreads misinformation about the game.

We are willing to help, let us know.

Hubert



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RE: To Bad this IA and developers - 4/9/2018 3:42:49 PM   
IainMcNeil


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Zecke you've been warned on a number of other sub forums about your posts. I'm deleting this one so you can reconsider it and your actions.

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RE: To Bad this IA and developers - 4/9/2018 5:49:31 PM   
nnason


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Iain,
I assume this is the post you deleted,: "As we can see am destroying the IA; so The IA dont surrender Spain because dont want to give the MPPs plunder and his country; this IA is not recomendable i strongly recomended not play this game."

Now I love SC and I think you all (Hubert and Bill) provide really great support. However, I would not have deleted Zecke's post since it looks to the unaware you are hiding negative material about SC. I know better but others might not.

Again I can't overstate how much good Matrix/Slitherine are doing for the computer gaming industry by publishing great games and providing outstanding support.

< Message edited by nnason -- 4/9/2018 5:50:04 PM >


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RE: To Bad this IA and developers - 4/9/2018 6:12:04 PM   
PvtBenjamin

 

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He had another post that was way out of line.


< Message edited by PvtBenjamin -- 4/9/2018 6:13:01 PM >


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You see things; and you say “Why?” But I dream things that never were; and I say “Why not?”

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RE: To Bad this IA and developers - 4/9/2018 6:15:02 PM   
zakblood


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all forums and topics are monitored, what gets posted is seen and reported

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RE: To Bad this IA and developers - 4/9/2018 7:19:07 PM   
xwormwood


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Hubert and Bill are the best.

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RE: To Bad this IA and developers - 4/9/2018 10:18:36 PM   
PvtBenjamin

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: nnason

Iain,
I assume this is the post you deleted,: "As we can see am destroying the IA; so The IA dont surrender Spain because dont want to give the MPPs plunder and his country; this IA is not recomendable i strongly recomended not play this game."

Now I love SC and I think you all (Hubert and Bill) provide really great support. However, I would not have deleted Zecke's post since it looks to the unaware you are hiding negative material about SC. I know better but others might not.

Again I can't overstate how much good Matrix/Slitherine are doing for the computer gaming industry by publishing great games and providing outstanding support.




You are correct tho the developers aren't very open to constructive criticism.

< Message edited by PvtBenjamin -- 4/9/2018 11:52:16 PM >


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You see things; and you say “Why?” But I dream things that never were; and I say “Why not?”

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RE: To Bad this IA and developers - 4/10/2018 10:22:46 AM   
Zecke


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the problem i see in this forum is the way of helping (no one has the key, including me); if i criticism the AI does not mean that the game is bad; SC is a really good game that mix Panzer General SSi and COS; the AI of this game CHEATS in things that should not learn; of course This IA learn of human way of playing; each game i start the AI improves but i also improve..

see what is going on in my last game now sept 16-1944 (planing invade London); my Navy finaly controls United Kingdom (see two pictures); so the AI as a defender way cheats something that i didnt show her; but the game is TOP.




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RE: To Bad this IA and developers - 4/10/2018 10:24:52 AM   
Zecke


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Navy Italo_german; the AI is totally blocked with the situation; sending transports that should not send; its a masacre




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Post #: 10
RE: To Bad this IA and developers - 4/10/2018 11:32:00 AM   
nnason


Posts: 341
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All,
Of course the AI cheats! Does it break coding rules the AI and we people have to follow probably not. I have found the SC tactical AI to be pretty good, the operational AI so so, and the Strategic AI unsubtle and navy pretty bad. We humans have to understand without help (cheats) commercial gaming AI would never beat a decent human player. Playing the AI should be considered training for playing people. Although such training can lead to bad habits (I know I have some.)

As a retired USA Artillery Officer I had an opportunity to work briefly on military simulations. The amount of time and effort put into a military computer war game was huge and it still needed people to provide strategic, operational, and tactical sanity to the game.

So if we want to play AI verse human we have to understand the AIs limitations. It is fine to note issues and propose solutions but for a commercial AI to be really really military grade the game would probably cost $1,000 or more and few would buy it at that price (so no game.) Look at the effort (labor of love) that went into “World in Flames” 3 rule books, years of board game play, costs $100, and still needs humans on both sides.

So constructive criticism great, bitching is pointless. You want realism join the Army.



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Noah Nason
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US Army Retired

(in reply to Zecke)
Post #: 11
RE: To Bad this IA and developers - 4/10/2018 11:46:50 AM   
Josh

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: nnason

All,
Of course the AI cheats! Does it break coding rules the AI and we people have to follow probably not. I have found the SC tactical AI to be pretty good, the operational AI so so, and the Strategic AI unsubtle and navy pretty bad. We humans have to understand without help (cheats) commercial gaming AI would never beat a decent human player. Playing the AI should be considered training for playing people. Although such training can lead to bad habits (I know I have some.)

As a retired USA Artillery Officer I had an opportunity to work briefly on military simulations. The amount of time and effort put into a military computer war game was huge and it still needed people to provide strategic, operational, and tactical sanity to the game.

So if we want to play AI verse human we have to understand the AIs limitations. It is fine to note issues and propose solutions but for a commercial AI to be really really military grade the game would probably cost $1,000 or more and few would buy it at that price (so no game.) Look at the effort (labor of love) that went into “World in Flames” 3 rule books, years of board game play, costs $100, and still needs humans on both sides.

So constructive criticism great, bitching is pointless. You want realism join the Army.




I agree. I haven't found much games that don't cheat some way or other. Learned to live with it, happy if the AI manages to pull off a brilliant move. Then again reallife Brass tends to do ... awkward ... things as well. Some players like to mimic this behaviour with the throw of a dice. They know they're going to battle with this or that AI, but let the declaration of war depend on the throw of a dice.
All in all if and when the AI bores you to death it's time for a human opponent. :-)

(in reply to nnason)
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RE: To Bad this IA and developers - 4/10/2018 11:47:54 AM   
rico21

 

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Wargames are too serious to be in charge by militaries.
Glad to have contributed to the debate.

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RE: To Bad this IA and developers - 4/10/2018 1:22:01 PM   
Zecke


Posts: 1462
Joined: 1/15/2005
From: Hitoeton
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Look Gentlment...I dont mind the IA but I know That this losses (see picture at 1944 at high experience) dont like the developments (DEVs) Mosku is also possible to take in 1945-46; of course if is not a pro-axis game which i think it is the high level should be more HIGH




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RE: To Bad this IA and developers - 4/10/2018 1:33:09 PM   
zakblood


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i'm not here to comment, just to show my face to show it's still being monitored

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RE: To Bad this IA and developers - 4/10/2018 1:54:57 PM   
sPzAbt653


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From: east coast, usa
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Recommending not to play the game and insulting the developers is wrong and unfounded. You are posting pictures accompanied by fractured comments in poor English that don't support anything. You come off as one of the competition making a poor attempt to slander this good game and its' excellent developers.

(in reply to Zecke)
Post #: 16
RE: To Bad this IA and developers - 4/10/2018 2:49:38 PM   
Hubert Cater

 

Posts: 2498
Joined: 7/22/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: nnason

Iain,
I assume this is the post you deleted,: "As we can see am destroying the IA; so The IA dont surrender Spain because dont want to give the MPPs plunder and his country; this IA is not recomendable i strongly recomended not play this game."

Now I love SC and I think you all (Hubert and Bill) provide really great support. However, I would not have deleted Zecke's post since it looks to the unaware you are hiding negative material about SC. I know better but others might not.

Again I can't overstate how much good Matrix/Slitherine are doing for the computer gaming industry by publishing great games and providing outstanding support.


Hi Nnason,

Unfortunately in my opinion this thread and the deleting of his posts did not happen in a vaccuum. Zecke had been warned previously and not about his posts of alleged AI cheating, rather he had posted, again in my opinion, using terms in a derogatory manner, i.e. calling us things by name, and in my past experiences at a previous publisher, this would have been more than enough to have someone banned from a forum. This did not happen and a kind warning had been issued instead.

In this thread and in other threads he had continued to post complaints about cheating and I had taken out the time to respond in each thread and offer my time and service to either help explain what he was seeing or to investigate further to determine if there were indeed bugs in the game.

We've always been very straightforward on any of the advantages that the AI receives in game, which relate to the use of bonus units via UNIT scripts, and unfortunately none of his comments/posts are accurate and only serve to spread misinformation about the game which can be harmful to our reputation.

In my opinion it becomes trolling when you continue to post the same thing over and over again while ignoring our offer to help clarify or examine game saves for bugs which we are more than happy to fix. Perhaps harsh to delete his posts, but he had been warned and we are still here to offer our help if Zecke would like to have it.

Hubert





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RE: To Bad this IA and developers - 4/10/2018 2:57:38 PM   
Hubert Cater

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PvtBenjamin
You are correct tho the developers aren't very open to constructive criticism.


Hi PvtBenjamin,

This post caught my eye and I find it a little surprising to be honest. I've always felt that we've done a fair job of addressing concerns over the years.

Just out of curiosity, is there a particular event or criticism you have in mind that we did not attempt to address or treat fairly?

Thanks,
Hubert


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Post #: 18
RE: To Bad this IA and developers - 4/10/2018 3:42:12 PM   
VPaulus

 

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Sorry guys, but due to the tone of this thread we are going to lock this.

Zecke we have previously asked that you not create multiple posts about this same issue, so this is your final warning and please do not continue to spam the forums or attack other users with derogatory comments with the same posts or we will be forced to ban you for this (or indeed making more posts in Spanish about this either).

As Hubert has said, he has addressed the criticisms and explained the reasons for this, while also being happy to continue to address any issues you are having or investigate to deem if there are bugs with this, but if you continue to not work with him to help with this and insist on spamming the forums and making personal attacks we will have to ban you.
If you wish for Hubert to work with you on this, please do work with him in an acceptable manner, but any further instances of trolling will result in a ban.


(in reply to Hubert Cater)
Post #: 19
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