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Miller (J) vs Mr Kane (A) - 3/30/2018 12:41:50 PM   
Miller


Posts: 2069
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From: Ashington, England.
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Hello! After several abortive games playing as the Allies, I have gone back over to the dark side.

My opponent is Mr Kane, well known on these forums and obviously an excellent player going off what I have read in his various AAR's. We are playing a totally vanilla stock scn 1 game, no mods of any kind. To speed up the start of the game I opted for historical first turn on, most other settings are the usual, Allied damage control on, dud torpedoes on etc. However we are playing with PDF off (at my request), which will make my job a lot harder but should hopefully slow the Allies down as well.

Only a few house rules, PPs paid for troops crossing borders, min 10k ft 4E bombers on naval attack, altitude limits on fighter ops. Other than that just about anything goes.

Could I ask Mr Kane to please keep out of this thread from now on and I hope we have a good long fight
Post #: 1
RE: Miller (J) vs Mr Kane (A) - 3/30/2018 12:47:39 PM   
BillBrown


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(in reply to Miller)
Post #: 2
RE: Miller (J) vs Mr Kane (A) - 3/30/2018 12:51:01 PM   
Miller


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From: Ashington, England.
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7th Dec 41

PH strike results:


Allied Ships
DD Worden, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
CL Honolulu, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 1
BB California, Bomb hits 11, Torpedo hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB Nevada, Bomb hits 3, Torpedo hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
DM Sicard
DM Breese, Bomb hits 1, on fire
BB Arizona, Bomb hits 8, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
BB West Virginia, Bomb hits 9, Torpedo hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB Maryland, Bomb hits 7, Torpedo hits 5, on fire, heavy damage
CA New Orleans, Bomb hits 2, on fire
BB Oklahoma, Bomb hits 16, Torpedo hits 3, on fire
BB Pennsylvania, Bomb hits 4, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
DM Ramsay
CM Oglala, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
DD Helm, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
AV Wright, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DM Preble
BB Tennessee, Bomb hits 9, Torpedo hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
CA San Francisco, Bomb hits 2
CL Detroit, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
CL Raleigh, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AE Pyro, Bomb hits 1
xAP St. Mihel, Bomb hits 1
CL Phoenix, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 1
CL St. Louis, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
AK Castor, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Conyngham, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DM Tracy, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
AVP Swan, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD MacDonough, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk


So pretty average really, 3 BBs have heavy damage and fires so hopefully at least a couple of them should go down. I lose 15 Zeros to flak but only a handful of Vals and Kates.

Meanwhile off Malaya the POW takes 5 Netty torps and meets her historical fate, Repluse is hit by 3 but 2 of them are duds! so looks like she will limp into port unless my subs can finish her off first. Nothing else much of note on the first day.

(in reply to Miller)
Post #: 3
RE: Miller (J) vs Mr Kane (A) - 3/30/2018 1:06:40 PM   
Canoerebel


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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
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Good luck, Paul! It's great to have another AAR involving solid players. I hope you guys have much fun.

(in reply to Miller)
Post #: 4
RE: Miller (J) vs Mr Kane (A) - 3/30/2018 1:22:06 PM   
Wargmr


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MrKane knows the Japanese weaknesses well. Good luck, you are going to need it ;]

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Post #: 5
RE: Miller (J) vs Mr Kane (A) - 3/30/2018 1:29:46 PM   
Miller


Posts: 2069
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From: Ashington, England.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Good luck, Paul! It's great to have another AAR involving solid players. I hope you guys have much fun.


Cheers Dan.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 6
RE: Miller (J) vs Mr Kane (A) - 3/30/2018 1:30:16 PM   
Miller


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From: Ashington, England.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wargmr

MrKane knows the Japanese weaknesses well. Good luck, you are going to need it ;]


I certainly am!

(in reply to Wargmr)
Post #: 7
RE: Miller (J) vs Mr Kane (A) - 3/30/2018 1:44:12 PM   
Lecivius


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_____________________________

If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

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Post #: 8
RE: Miller (J) vs Mr Kane (A) - 3/30/2018 1:50:06 PM   
Miller


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From: Ashington, England.
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So whilst I await the next turn, what will my overall strategy be? Well, as much as I would love to invade PH, Australia and other far flung exotic locations, I think I am going to have to limit myself to the historical gains and perhaps one or two small extras depending on how the game pans out. I simply don't have the air assets to be spreading myself all over the map.

Of course Palembang will be the first major objective, as it would not surprise me if he tried to reinforce it early, but I will also have to get footholds on nearby bases in order to keep his bombers at bay. I have also set myself a target of taking Singapore by the end of January, so I may divert some troops heading for the PI theatre towards Malaya instead and try and cut off some of his units trying to retreat into Singers.

I was shocked to see my available first line fighter strength. I have barely 100 Zeros and about 60 Oscars to call upon, the rest are pretty worthless Nates. In fact I think the Allies start out with higher fighter numbers albeit with inferior planes/pilots. However I know how deadly massed CAPs can be even with lesser aircraft like the Buffalo. I'm going to have to treat my airforce with kid gloves but you have to break some eggs to make an omelette....

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Post #: 9
RE: Miller (J) vs Mr Kane (A) - 3/30/2018 1:55:22 PM   
zuluhour


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I shall watch a second IJ AAR. I hope to hear about PDU-OFF from the red team. I am in my
first game with PDU-OFF as Allies and I am enjoying it. From an Allied perspective, there
are problems early. Many squadrons are not filled out. The P39 is not my favorite frame
and it is the most plentiful. Not being able to juggle out training aircraft to get some
early P38s and more P40s just not in the cards. I can see it being more difficult to amass
large groups of P47s later as well, though I'm not sure on this one. I am not real fond
of the P40B either and production of the "E" model is slow. I am also used to sending B17s
to Asia early and this is just not going to happen the way I am used to. Good luck sir!

< Message edited by zuluhour -- 3/30/2018 2:01:13 PM >

(in reply to Miller)
Post #: 10
RE: Miller (J) vs Mr Kane (A) - 3/30/2018 1:58:10 PM   
Miller


Posts: 2069
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From: Ashington, England.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: zuluhour

I shall watch a second IJ AAR. I hope to hear about PDU-OFF from the red team. I am in my
first game with PDU-OFF as Allies and I am enjoying it. From an Allied perspective, there
are problems early.



Yeah tell me about it, I noticed in my last game that by the end of 1941 the US has about 300 fighters sitting at home with no future use at all (unless the Japs invade there) lol.

(in reply to zuluhour)
Post #: 11
RE: Miller (J) vs Mr Kane (A) - 3/30/2018 9:13:11 PM   
obvert


Posts: 12151
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From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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Great to see this game, and glad you're doing an AAR!



_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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Post #: 12
RE: Miller (J) vs Mr Kane (A) - 3/31/2018 1:44:07 AM   
Miller


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From: Ashington, England.
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8th Dec 41

The two DDs that bombard Midway on the first turn stumble into the Enterprise CV TF south of Midway during the night. Unfortunately their torpedoes miss, during the day the Enterprise strikes back, they avoid all but one SBD bomb which cripples the Ushio, she will probably sink next turn.

Khota Baru falls on the first attack by my troops, I have base forces due to land there tomorrow and this will be my main fighter base in Malaya. Nothing to report elsewhere, several PI invasion TF's should hit the beaches next turn.

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 13
RE: Miller (J) vs Mr Kane (A) - 4/1/2018 12:27:05 PM   
Miller


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9th-10th Dec 41

Most of the action revolves around my transport TFs landing in the PI. He sets all his P40s and floatplanes based at Clark to naval attack at 100ft and they cause havoc, sinking about 20 AKs and 3 or 4 APs without any interference as I cannot LRCAP at that extreme range from Formosa. However the bulk of my troops got ashore in good order and I can base fighters over the transports still unloading now. I can afford to lose the AKs but those APs hurt, I think the Japs only get about 60 in the whole game. Looks like 100-1000ft attacks will be the norm as all his dutch bombers are flying at that height as well.

Elsewhere I land at Singkawang and it should fall tomorrow with an air hq en route. Still early days in China but I rout a few crappy units in open terrain, not sure how to approach it yet, I usually go all in but it will depend on how his defence takes shape. I'm about 2-3 days out from landing at Mersing and hopefully cutting off a mass retreat in Singers. KB is plodding back towards Wake and will provide cover for its invasion. Enterprise's SBDs finish off the damaged DD and she disappears the next day, no idea where the Lex TF is either...

(in reply to Miller)
Post #: 14
RE: Miller (J) vs Mr Kane (A) - 4/1/2018 12:40:12 PM   
Miller


Posts: 2069
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From: Ashington, England.
Status: online
Production notes

If this had been a PDU On game it would have been much simpler to organise my airframe production and r/d, however with PDU Off i'm going to be forced to produce all sorts of crap to keep sqds full. I've made the follow changes so far:

IJN:

Zero: 100 (this will probably rise to nearer 200 soon)
Netty: 70
Kate: 40
Val: 40
Jake: 30
Mavis: 15
Pete: 10

IJAAF:

Oscar: 120 (this will be the main fighter until 43, normally it would be the Tojo)
Sally/Lily: 50 (again these would be all Helens by 43 if PDU was on)
Other crap: TBC


Ship wise I have accelerated all six Unyru class carriers, hopefully I should have them all by mid 43. Left all the others as normal except for halting the Shinano. Halted the Yamato but will restart her later to arrive at the same time as the Musashi. I will accelerate all DDs as soon as possible.

(in reply to Miller)
Post #: 15
RE: Miller (J) vs Mr Kane (A) - 4/1/2018 1:34:52 PM   
adarbrauner

 

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Don't know what game calendar day are you in currently....but 100 A6M per month + 120 Oscars is a lot...really crap a lot, for the beginning of 1942; and you have also the rec 2 engines planes (+ others), all uses Ha- 35 engine, are you set to produce such a vast number of them?? Is your HI production up to the task?

While a 50 joint Sally/Lily is the bare minimum to keep a non high profile/activity.

Soon you'll have to make allowance for the Nicks, again 2 engines, for Rufes, and for R&D;

30 Jakes conversely is a lot, and you'll se yourself turn off production at times, but that's fine...

(in reply to Miller)
Post #: 16
RE: Miller (J) vs Mr Kane (A) - 4/1/2018 1:37:14 PM   
adarbrauner

 

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And you need the Sonia, you just need it; probably also the Ann, as soon as you empty its pool;

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Post #: 17
RE: Miller (J) vs Mr Kane (A) - 4/1/2018 3:21:38 PM   
Miller


Posts: 2069
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From: Ashington, England.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner

Don't know what game calendar day are you in currently....but 100 A6M per month + 120 Oscars is a lot...really crap a lot, for the beginning of 1942; and you have also the rec 2 engines planes (+ others), all uses Ha- 35 engine, are you set to produce such a vast number of them?? Is your HI production up to the task?

While a 50 joint Sally/Lily is the bare minimum to keep a non high profile/activity.

Soon you'll have to make allowance for the Nicks, again 2 engines, for Rufes, and for R&D;

30 Jakes conversely is a lot, and you'll se yourself turn off production at times, but that's fine...


Yup my HI pool is going to take a hit early on but its all for the greater good. Ha-35 is by far the most important engine in PDU off games and I will increase production accordingly. Don't want to think about crap like Sonia and Ann yet, makes things too depressing lol.

(in reply to adarbrauner)
Post #: 18
RE: Miller (J) vs Mr Kane (A) - 4/1/2018 3:27:43 PM   
John 3rd


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That was an excellent PH Strike. You managed to clobber nearly all the CA--CL present and--to me--those are the most important vessels present.

What do you know of your opponent? Will he turtle or fight?


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Post #: 19
RE: Miller (J) vs Mr Kane (A) - 4/1/2018 3:35:57 PM   
Miller


Posts: 2069
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11th Dec 41

My first sweep of Singapore yields about 45 Buffaloes (inc 10 to ops losses) at a cost of 10 Zeros, nice but would hate the kill ratio to fall below 3:1. No sign of the AVG anywhere yet, I usually employ them over Singapore where you get the best bang for your buck out of them, so I'm not complaining. Looks like he is abandoning Mersing, my troops will land there the turn after next, whilst in northern Malaya I'm about to take Alor star, so everything on schedule so far.

Over in the PI everything is ashore now, just a question of how long it takes to get to Clark field as it looks like he is doing the usual retreat everything to there tactic (as would I). It will probably be April/May time before I secure it. First attack at Hong Kong knocks forts down to 2, it should fall within a week I would imagine, freeing up a Div to go to wherever I see fit. Invasion of Palembang is about 2 days out as well, not much air cover for it but his dutch bombers don't really pose much threat, even at 1000ft.

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Post #: 20
RE: Miller (J) vs Mr Kane (A) - 4/1/2018 3:38:52 PM   
Miller


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From: Ashington, England.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

That was an excellent PH Strike. You managed to clobber nearly all the CA--CL present and--to me--those are the most important vessels present.

What do you know of your opponent? Will he turtle or fight?



I've read a few of his AAR's and I reckon he will fight, I certainly hope so as if he does I think I can do a good amount of damage. I tend to mass my forces in one area to maximize my chances, of course that leaves me vulnerable elsewhere but you can't have everything!

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Post #: 21
RE: Miller (J) vs Mr Kane (A) - 4/1/2018 4:09:43 PM   
witpqs


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I leave you guys alone for ONE DAY and you start a game that's both wild and innovative from the first turn!

I've never even seen anything like that DD -> CV intercept on the first turn (this one being obviously *not* carrier hunting).

Fantastic Pearl Harbor strike! It's always a hard call whether you want them all sunk so they are gone or all badly damaged so they tie up yards forever. That strike was as good as any. How about US aircraft losses at PH? The PBY fleet on the ground there is very important for the first few months.

The low level bombing was great for turn 1; is he sticking to it? They all have such poor skills at start that for most squadrons low versus normal is the same at first, but they should get hit by a lot more ground/ship fire. Did you see any of that?

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Post #: 22
RE: Miller (J) vs Mr Kane (A) - 4/1/2018 4:21:36 PM   
Miller


Posts: 2069
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From: Ashington, England.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

I leave you guys alone for ONE DAY and you start a game that's both wild and innovative from the first turn!

I've never even seen anything like that DD -> CV intercept on the first turn (this one being obviously *not* carrier hunting).

Fantastic Pearl Harbor strike! It's always a hard call whether you want them all sunk so they are gone or all badly damaged so they tie up yards forever. That strike was as good as any. How about US aircraft losses at PH? The PBY fleet on the ground there is very important for the first few months.

The low level bombing was great for turn 1; is he sticking to it? They all have such poor skills at start that for most squadrons low versus normal is the same at first, but they should get hit by a lot more ground/ship fire. Did you see any of that?


I assure you those DDs meeting the Enterprise was purely random, I bet his heart was in his mouth when he saw it! There are no Kingfisher floatplanes showing up as op losses so I doubt any of his BBs went under at Pearl, quite a few of the torps were dud hits. However, it looks like all have a good amount of damage, I doubt I will see any until 43. I think he lost about 100 a/c on the ground including about 30 PBYs. The low nav does the trick against transports but has been ineffective against warships up to now. I'm employing all my BB and Cruiser based Petes as emergency fighters, they don't shoot anything down but seem to disrupt the aim.....

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Post #: 23
RE: Miller (J) vs Mr Kane (A) - 4/1/2018 4:43:48 PM   
witpqs


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Yes, I tried to be clear those DD's were clearly not carrier hunting. I had misread your post and thought the intercept was on turn 1, but it was actually turn 2, and I just assumed it was Wake Island and missed "Midway" completely (I think I was still salivating over the Pearl harbor results post! ). I found it so amazing because his CV TF would have needed full speed to be that close to Wake.

The turn 2 intercept is still significant as it signals he will be hyper-aggressive. His carrier (and maybe the other one too, just unseen??) is probably angling for the oilers in the refueling TF.


BTW, on carrier hunting my own opinion is the Allied player should get Turn 1 with no carrier hunting (including no pre-positioning hunting assets for Turn 2) but that as of Turn 2 the Allied carriers are on their own. Turn 1 single-phase plus Turn 2 two-phase naval movement is plenty and the Allied player should not expect more.

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Post #: 24
RE: Miller (J) vs Mr Kane (A) - 4/1/2018 5:54:41 PM   
Miller


Posts: 2069
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From: Ashington, England.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Yes, I tried to be clear those DD's were clearly not carrier hunting. I had misread your post and thought the intercept was on turn 1, but it was actually turn 2, and I just assumed it was Wake Island and missed "Midway" completely (I think I was still salivating over the Pearl harbor results post! ). I found it so amazing because his CV TF would have needed full speed to be that close to Wake.

The turn 2 intercept is still significant as it signals he will be hyper-aggressive. His carrier (and maybe the other one too, just unseen??) is probably angling for the oilers in the refueling TF.


BTW, on carrier hunting my own opinion is the Allied player should get Turn 1 with no carrier hunting (including no pre-positioning hunting assets for Turn 2) but that as of Turn 2 the Allied carriers are on their own. Turn 1 single-phase plus Turn 2 two-phase naval movement is plenty and the Allied player should not expect more.


That's why I have made sure the oilers have been in the same hex as the KB since the start. I bet the Lexington is far to the northwest of Midway hoping they were going to show up...

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Post #: 25
RE: Miller (J) vs Mr Kane (A) - 4/1/2018 6:04:45 PM   
Miller


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12th Dec 41

The three old British DDs that start off at Hong Kong meet a couple of my transport TFs in the Sulu sea and sink a few low value AKs, I hope to kill them next turn. One of my roving DD Tfs stumble upon a load of transports fleeing Hong Kong and kill a good number. I have refrained from using Netty's for fear of them flying against AKLs or PTs at Clark under a CAP trap, the Allies get zillions of AKs so killing the ones fleeing Manila is pointless imo.

My invasion of Mersing will go in next turn and Palembang the day after. Very little opposition the last couple of turns, I think he may be regrouping his forces on Java.


(in reply to Miller)
Post #: 26
RE: Miller (J) vs Mr Kane (A) - 4/1/2018 7:02:34 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller

There are no Kingfisher floatplanes showing up as op losses so I doubt any of his BBs went under at Pearl, quite a few of the torps were dud hits. However, it looks like all have a good amount of damage, I doubt I will see any until 43.


At game start I think almost all the US ships that have FPs carry the Seagull rather than the Kingfisher. The Kingfishers are just beginning to be made available to the fleet.

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Post #: 27
RE: Miller (J) vs Mr Kane (A) - 4/1/2018 7:07:22 PM   
John 3rd


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How are you getting to Palembang? Using Fast TF or regular?


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Post #: 28
RE: Miller (J) vs Mr Kane (A) - 4/1/2018 7:21:30 PM   
scondon87

 

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The PH BBs carry Kingfishers, but everything smaller still has Seagulls at game start. At least in stock.

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Post #: 29
RE: Miller (J) vs Mr Kane (A) - 4/1/2018 8:47:45 PM   
Miller


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13th Dec 41

Landing at Mersing is a mini disaster as I forget to LRCAP it and lose 5 AKs to the 1000ft bomber brigade, but all the troops get ashore and it should fall next turn. The first amphibious TF hits Palembang and it looks like he has not tried to re-inforce it, another two are due to unload next turn so it should fall without any problem. Lots of AA and naval support among the transports so as long as I get some Zeros up over it when it falls it should be safe from any air threat for the time being.

Elsewhere I sink one of the old brit DDs that meets one of my surface TFs near Jolo, the other two run away. Jolo is invaded and will fall next turn no doubt. KB next to Wake Is and the invasion going in next turn, stay tuned.....

(in reply to scondon87)
Post #: 30
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