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Desert War: Combat Tips - 3/26/2018 7:13:34 AM   
bcgames


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COMBAT TIPS

On Ground Operations.

Use Combined Arms. Shock-neutral (shock=0) units can attack with tank units and not degrade their Shock modifier. If you attack using shock-capable units with leg infantry, then you will dilute your Shock and have reduced odds.

Fight for intelligence. It’s not just the job of recce to get intel. Get infantry, artillery, and engineers into the process of fighting for intelligence. If you want intel—you need to go and get it with whatever means are available. Fight if you have to to get it.

Maintain a Reserve. The last side to commit its reserve WINS! If there are two units left on a side – one of them is in reserve! If you commit your reserve--designate a new one--every time.

Maintain Organizational Integrity. Don’t commit units from two different divisions to an attack against the same hex. Generally speaking, there is no benefit if you do; most often you will be punished with unfavorable odds shifts by combining the attacks or defenses of units from different HQs. If you must do it, use a Main Effort Ground Asset (if available) to overcome the disadvantages.

Don’t Mix Corps and Division Artillery Attacks. You decrease the potential attack strengths of these units by combining them. They too fall under the organizational integrity rules. But...if the final numbers generate the odds that you need – do it.

Keep HQs units out of range of enemy artillery. HQs units are easy to destroy if left exposed to the combined attacks of enemy artillery units and/or air assets. HQs units provide MANY easy victory points to the enemy. Their loss SEVERELY degrades the capabilities of their subordinate units. Protect your HQs units; move often – protect always.

Anti-tank Are.... Always place your anti-tank units so they are in position to face the enemy’s tanks. AT units twiddling their thumbs in distant locations where their armor-negating capabilities can’t be used are wasted resources.

Ambush Avoidance. Avoid use of road movement mode to enter enemy territory; ambushes can devastate an entire road column. Have security forward and don’t out-run it. On the other hand? Use road movement to run a corps around an open flank into the enemies rear...Fortune favors the bold.

On Air Operations.

Fly 'em, Rest 'em. Don’t fly your Air Assets turn after turn without rest. Never fly more than 2/3 of your air assets unless the situation demands it, and/or you have a rest plan that supports it. 50% on and 50% off is the way to keep your air assets rested. If they are not rested you will find them absent when you need them the most.

AA exists for a reason. Place your AA units so they protect those units in your main effort that are most vulnerable to air attack. While defending, identify where the enemy’s main attack is and protect those units facing it. HQs and artillery units behind the line that are supporting the main effort should be protected with the same vigor as those critical points on the front line.

Counter-air is important. Supporting ground operations requires much more than just providing close air support to individual attacks and/or attacking individual enemy units on the battlefield. Air superiority helps insure unfettered ground unit movement, the resupply of fuel and ammo points, and sustainment of command and control ranges.

On Naval Operations.

Threaten. The threat of naval bombardment can be just as useful as its actual employment. Once employed – that threat is gone.

Destroy. If you find an enemy HQs within range of naval assets, attack! Throw in some air assets if available and artillery if in range. Strike the HQs – Kill it. This impacts the supply status of all its subordinate units.

On Logistics Operations

Spend Supplies Wisely. Don’t be stingy with your supplies; Fuel and Ammo points that remain at the end of a scenario are unused combat potential.

Manage Supplies. HQs consume Move+ and/or Combat+ supply points based on their most costly subordinate unit. The most costly units are armor, mechanized, or motorized units.

Think Supplies. Supplies and the lines of communications along which they travel represent the combat power potential of ground units. Never start – nor end a turn – without checking the supply status of your units – and taking action to fix or mitigate any logistics issues.

Offense vs Defense. Generally speaking, you will use more fuel than ammo. Burn off that “excess” ammo by providing Combat+ supply to organizations that have artillery units in position and ready to expend it. Corps artillery units with Combat+ supply are sledge-hammering destroyers of enemy units.

General

Rest your units. After each third turn (3, 6, 9, 12, etc.) there is a “night” phase during which units recover readiness at double the normal rate; use this opportunity every time--unless you have a really good reason not to.

Got a Combat Tip? Share it below.

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RE: Desert War: Combat Tips - 3/27/2018 7:04:32 PM   
SlickWilhelm


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Don't forget to use some of your air assets for interdiction. Aircraft on an interdiction mission will reduce the supply that the enemy receives, it can slow down enemy units, and it reduces the enemy's HQ supply range. That being said, if your enemy has air units assigned to the "counter air" mission, they can reduce your interdiction mission's effectiveness. So, use the "interdiction" and "counter air" missions at the same time.

You want to know what I call enemy units which were on full supply last turn, but after my interdiction missions, have been reduced to extended supply? MEAT ON THE TABLE!

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RE: Desert War: Combat Tips - 3/27/2018 11:47:39 PM   
goodwoodrw


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Use Combined Arms. Shock-neutral (shock=0) units can attack with tank units and not degrade their Shock modifier. If you attack using shock-capable units with leg infantry, then you will dilute your Shock and have reduced odds.

The above statement needs an explanation its contradictory

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RE: Desert War: Combat Tips - 3/28/2018 12:10:43 AM   
SlickWilhelm


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quote:

ORIGINAL: goodwoodrw

Use Combined Arms. Shock-neutral (shock=0) units can attack with tank units and not degrade their Shock modifier. If you attack using shock-capable units with leg infantry, then you will dilute your Shock and have reduced odds.

The above statement needs an explanation its contradictory



Simply put, if you include units which have no offensive shock value(Non-motorized infantry) in an attack combined with units which DO contain offensive shock value(Tanks, anti-tank guns), then the shock value of the tanks and anti-tank guns will be reduced.

So, use your tanks and anti-tank guns to attack separate hexes/enemy units than what your non-motorized units attack. Look at pages 23-24 in my Player's guide/tutorial. It's easier to see when you look at a picture or two.

Note, that a unit which has an offensive shock value of zero is still useful, and can attack a hex with armored units without negatively affecting the other units' offensive shock value.

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RE: Desert War: Combat Tips - 3/28/2018 4:26:59 AM   
countrboy

 

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Just on this, does it apply even if you are attacking from two hexes - one of which is only shock units (eg. tanks) and the other hex only holds infantry? Is such an attack still deemed to be mixing shock and non-shock units?

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RE: Desert War: Combat Tips - 3/28/2018 5:40:30 AM   
bcgames


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Shock is calculated based on the shock value of all stacking points attacking into a particular hex during a given turn.

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RE: Desert War: Combat Tips - 3/28/2018 3:17:23 PM   
SlickWilhelm


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quote:

ORIGINAL: countrboy

Just on this, does it apply even if you are attacking from two hexes - one of which is only shock units (eg. tanks) and the other hex only holds infantry? Is such an attack still deemed to be mixing shock and non-shock units?


Yes it does.

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RE: Desert War: Combat Tips - 3/29/2018 3:09:45 PM   
kipanderson

 

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Hi,
Thanks, great tips. Will probably just print them off for my first few play throughs of major battles as opposed to run throughs of tutorial.
All the best,
Kip.


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RE: Desert War: Combat Tips - 4/9/2018 5:15:15 AM   
bcgames


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Intel Matters -- A LOT.

Before you send your ground recce assets off to capture Benghazi for the win, think about finding out what lies directly in front of you. The more you know, the more you blow-up with your artillery, air and naval forces. Consider this:
Avg
Intel    Modifier
0        No Fire
1        0.15
2        0.35
3        0.75
4        1.00
5        1.10 

With an Intel level of 1, an artillery unit with a basic attack value of 5 is modified to .75 (5 times 0.15). With Combat+ supply this artillery unit's attack value is quadrupled (.75 x 4 = 3). Now...what if the Intel Level was 4 and it had Combat+ supply? Then the artillery unit's attack value would be 20 (5 times 1 times 4).

So...use your recce forces to go get the Intel. It's the difference between .75 and 20...or more.

Scouts out!

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RE: Desert War: Combat Tips - 4/12/2018 8:41:26 AM   
bcgames


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Using Move+ is DUMB!

The default game design allows you to move in the "same old way"--just plot your movements without doing anything supply-wise. So, if you want to move along "an inch at a time", to get things forward so they might be in the right position at the right time in the "same old way", then plot the moves and DON'T use Move+ fuel points--EVER.

Move+ is designed to ROCKET you "half-way across the map" if that's what you need to do. Yeah...there are some expensive tactical applications for this capability...but understand The Big Picture before you start spending fuel points just because they are there.

Bottomline: Have a good reason to expend Move+ supply. If you want to accomplish something LESS than The Big Move, the game default was designed to support your decision. Just creep along--save your fuel points for The Big Move. When you are ready for The Blitz--use Move+ and let fly!

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RE: Desert War: Combat Tips - 4/12/2018 4:56:49 PM   
russkly

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SlickWilhelm


quote:

ORIGINAL: goodwoodrw

Use Combined Arms. Shock-neutral (shock=0) units can attack with tank units and not degrade their Shock modifier. If you attack using shock-capable units with leg infantry, then you will dilute your Shock and have reduced odds.

The above statement needs an explanation its contradictory



Simply put, if you include units which have no offensive shock value(Non-motorized infantry) in an attack combined with units which DO contain offensive shock value(Tanks, anti-tank guns), then the shock value of the tanks and anti-tank guns will be reduced.

So, use your tanks and anti-tank guns to attack separate hexes/enemy units than what your non-motorized units attack. Look at pages 23-24 in my Player's guide/tutorial. It's easier to see when you look at a picture or two.

Note, that a unit which has an offensive shock value of zero is still useful, and can attack a hex with armored units without negatively affecting the other units' offensive shock value.


But is there actually any benefit in using combined arms? For example, are there benefits to adding motorised or mechanised infantry units to an armoured attack, or will they simply not reduce the odds?

Given the game scale, I'd imagine that there should be a benefit, since in a 2-mile area there is scope to use combined arms tactics, and I'm guessing that this would have been useful in real life.

So does the game model this armoured/motorised/mechanised combination by applying combat benefits or do they simply not detract from one another?

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RE: Desert War: Combat Tips - 4/12/2018 11:46:13 PM   
JasonPratt


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SlickWilhelm


quote:

ORIGINAL: goodwoodrw

Use Combined Arms. Shock-neutral (shock=0) units can attack with tank units and not degrade their Shock modifier. If you attack using shock-capable units with leg infantry, then you will dilute your Shock and have reduced odds.

The above statement needs an explanation its contradictory



Simply put, if you include units which have no offensive shock value(Non-motorized infantry) in an attack combined with units which DO contain offensive shock value(Tanks, anti-tank guns), then the shock value of the tanks and anti-tank guns will be reduced.

So, use your tanks and anti-tank guns to attack separate hexes/enemy units than what your non-motorized units attack. Look at pages 23-24 in my Player's guide/tutorial. It's easier to see when you look at a picture or two.

Note, that a unit which has an offensive shock value of zero is still useful, and can attack a hex with armored units without negatively affecting the other units' offensive shock value.



...uh, I still don't get how any of that amounts to using combined arms in a way where "shock-neutral (shock=0) units can attack with tank units and NOT degrade their shock modifier".

Everything I have read in the manual (so far) and the quick-start, and your tutorial SW, along with most of the commentary in this thread, agrees that mixing shock and non-shock units in an attack dilutes the shock when attacking the same hex together, whether from the same hex or from multiple hexes. (Although perhaps there's a tradeoff in getting a flank attack going. But still, shock diluted.)

But then after affirming this you go on to say, that zero-shock units "can attack a hex with armored units without negatively affecting the other units' offensive shock value." Which is how bcgames started his combat tips. But goodwood and I are still left wondering how that can be true.


As far as I can find, the only way to use "combined arms" when attacking the same hex in this game, is to send multiple attacks, one with shock units, one without. The attacks are thus resolved separately. This gets tricky to arrange, however.

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RE: Desert War: Combat Tips - 4/13/2018 4:25:52 AM   
bcgames


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bcgames

COMBAT TIPS

On Ground Operations.

Use Combined Arms. Shock-neutral (shock=0) units can attack with tank units and not degrade their Shock modifier. If you attack using shock-capable units with leg infantry, then you will dilute your Shock and have reduced odds.

First time DW players tend to attack with armor alone to "preserve" their Full shock capability. However, combining non-armor units that are shock-neutral, with a single armor unit greatly influences the impact of the Full shock shift.

For example, let's take a look using 5.Pz Regiment from the Battle of Sollum scenario. The force ratio of a 1941 panzer (armor) battalion with a Combat+ attack value of 18 versus a UK motor infantry battalion defense of 20 = odds of .9 to 1. Full shock makes the final attack odds 4.9 to 1.

Let's do some combined arms and add a machinegun (MG) battalion (shock neutral) to the Axis attack. That's 18 for the panzer battalion and 12 for the MG battalion for a total of 30 to 20 or 1.5 to 1. Full shock makes the final attack ratio 5.5 to 1.

Now let's throw in the entire 5.Pz Regiment (12 stacking points with organizational integrity and Combat+...HQ SPs excluded). 56 attack factors vs 20 = odds of 2.8 to 1. Full shock makes the final attack ratio 6.8 to 1.

Combined arms is two or more combat arms working together. Combat arms (circa WWII) are infantry, artillery, and armor/cavalry. The base case is leg infantry and artillery...just like WWI. Prep the objective a turn or two with artillery before you attack with your leg infantry in Desert War and you will increase your chances of being successful--combined arms WWI. The change between WWI and WWII is mechanization. In North Africa, armor became the pivot point for the use of the other two arms. If you want more out of your combat potential, then center your solution around the use of your armor.

There is no combined arms modifier per se beyond Shock in Desert War...accept for the Command Asset--Combined Arms. This asset comes into play when the side concerned started (historically) to exhibit the ability to excel (on occasion) in coordinating the effects of two or more of the combat arms.





Attachment (1)

< Message edited by bcgames -- 4/13/2018 4:30:14 AM >


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RE: Desert War: Combat Tips - 4/13/2018 4:27:57 AM   
countrboy

 

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I'm also confused.

Let's say you have two units in a hex: a tank company and an infantry battalion. You want to attack an adjacent enemy unit. Let's say it's an enemy infantry unit. Are you better off attacking with A) just the armored unit B)just the infantry unit or C) Both?

And if the enemy unit is armor, what is the answer then?
And if it's actually 2 enemy units, one infantry and the other armor, what then?

My uninformed guess is:
B
A
C

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RE: Desert War: Combat Tips - 4/13/2018 5:17:12 AM   
bcgames


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quote:

ORIGINAL: countrboy

Let's say you have two units in a hex: a tank company and an infantry battalion. You want to attack an adjacent enemy unit. Let's say it's an enemy infantry unit. Are you better off attacking with A) just the armored unit B)just the infantry unit or C) Both?

I assume your question wishes to weigh the merits between the combination of a leg infantry unit (not motorized, not mechanized, no shock) and an armor unit (full shock)--or not combining them. The answer to your question depends on the attack factors of the armor unit, the infantry unit and the enemy unit's defense strength--and what you are trying to achieve with your attack. When all of those factors are considered, then you are better off attacking with the best odds attainable. Without any specifics, I would say a leg infantry unit attacking with tank support will fare better than a leg infantry unit attacking without tank support.

So, if you want to jack-up the combat capability of No-Shock units--then add some tanks. Any combat ratio shift is better than no combat ratio shifts.


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RE: Desert War: Combat Tips - 4/13/2018 5:49:05 AM   
countrboy

 

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"So, if you want to jack-up the combat capability of No-Shock units--then add some tanks. Any combat ratio shift is better than no combat ratio shifts. "

But there's no inherent advantage to combining infantry and armor as such? Beyond the fact you now have two units participating in the attack, as opposed to one?

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RE: Desert War: Combat Tips - 4/13/2018 6:05:13 AM   
bcgames


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Without any specifics, I would say a leg infantry unit attacking with tank support will fare better than a leg infantry unit attacking without tank support.

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RE: Desert War: Combat Tips - 4/14/2018 12:23:55 AM   
JasonPratt


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What's confusing some of us (myself included), is when adding no-shock units to shock units dilutes shock value, and when it doesn't.

The key point seems to be that some units have no shock value, and some units have zero shock value. But (at the top of page 78), "NOTE: A unit with a Shock Value of 0 is still considered a Shock unit." So it has "neutral" shock value. It wouldn't create shock by itself, but it doesn't dilute a positive shock unit.

Foot infantry has negative (i.e. no) shock value: it not only does not generate shock, it hampers the generation of shock, diluting it.

Motorized infantry I'm not sure about yet.

Mechanized infantry has zero (i.e. neutral, not no) shock value: it doesn't generate shock, but doesn't hamper shock generation. The armored personnel can keep up with the tanks basically.

Tanks have positive shock value: they generate four shifts of shock. This is not diluted by combining them with mechanized infantry or anything else that has neutral shock value. It would be diluted by combining them with foot infantry or anything with negative shock value.

However, sometimes it's better to do that anyway since a little shock still helps adjust the odds a little more than combined attack strengths alone.


Have I finally gotten this right?

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RE: Desert War: Combat Tips - 4/14/2018 12:30:58 AM   
JasonPratt


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So when the lightning icon is grey, no shock value, or rather negative shock.

When the lightning icon is black/yellow but shows 0, that's 0 shock, or rather neutral shock.

Other black/yellow possibilities are 4 (full 4 shifts of shock on attack... on defense this only nullifies up to 4 shifts of enemy shock)
2:E (half shock on attack, shifts, and equal to enemy shock on defense)
0:E (0 shock neutral on attack, doesn't degrade shock, and equal to enemy shock on defense up to 2 shifts)

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RE: Desert War: Combat Tips - 4/14/2018 4:25:14 AM   
bcgames


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JasonPratt
Motorized infantry I'm not sure about yet.

Motorized infantry is neutral.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JasonPratt
Mechanized infantry has zero (i.e. neutral, not no) shock value: it doesn't generate shock, but doesn't hamper shock generation. The armored personnel can keep up with the tanks basically.

Mechanized infantry units have a shock value of 2; they generate shock by themselves. If mechanized infantry is attacking with tanks then the largest shock value in the attack is used--in this case the shock value of the tanks (i.e. 4).




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RE: Desert War: Combat Tips - 4/14/2018 11:39:56 AM   
Toby42


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bcgames


quote:

ORIGINAL: JasonPratt
Motorized infantry I'm not sure about yet.

Motorized infantry is neutral.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JasonPratt
Mechanized infantry has zero (i.e. neutral, not no) shock value: it doesn't generate shock, but doesn't hamper shock generation. The armored personnel can keep up with the tanks basically.

Mechanized infantry units have a shock value of 2; they generate shock by themselves. If mechanized infantry is attacking with tanks then the largest shock value in the attack is used--in this case the shock value of the tanks (i.e. 4).





But only in clear terrain, right?

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RE: Desert War: Combat Tips - 4/14/2018 3:02:30 PM   
bcgames


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To employ Shock, the Defender must be in desert terrain and the Attacker cannot attack across a gully, ridge, river, or minefield hexside.

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RE: Desert War: Combat Tips - 4/16/2018 12:21:16 PM   
Saint Ruth

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: countrboy
But there's no inherent advantage to combining infantry and armor as such? Beyond the fact you now have two units participating in the attack, as opposed to one?

Sure there is if the infantry has Shock (of even 0) -- i.e. Motorized or Mechanized.

Shock comes from Rapid movement of tanks.

To ignore the figures and use an example:
- If your tanks are attacking with "leg" infantry then they're moving at walking pace and therefore lose their Shock effect.
- If your tanks are attacking with "mobile" infantry then they're moving rapidly and keep their Shock effect.

So what's the benefit of combing "mobile" infantry with tanks? It inceases your final Attack Factor and the tanks keep their full Shock shift.

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RE: Desert War: Combat Tips - 4/17/2018 1:56:32 PM   
Okayrun3254

 

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Does attacking from either side of a ridge reduce the attack by 50%? I am trying to figure out which side of the ridge is good for a defensive position.

This is a edit to my question above. I found out by right clicking the terrain, I get all the attack and movement modifiers. Cool. I tend to play before reading the manual in detail, so I learn as I go. haha.

< Message edited by Okayrun3254 -- 4/17/2018 2:16:40 PM >

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RE: Desert War: Combat Tips - 4/17/2018 3:31:43 PM   
Saint Ruth

 

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No probs!

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RE: Desert War: Combat Tips - 4/17/2018 9:59:54 PM   
SlickWilhelm


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JasonPratt

So when the lightning icon is grey, no shock value, or rather negative shock.

When the lightning icon is black/yellow but shows 0, that's 0 shock, or rather neutral shock.

Other black/yellow possibilities are 4 (full 4 shifts of shock on attack... on defense this only nullifies up to 4 shifts of enemy shock)
2:E (half shock on attack, shifts, and equal to enemy shock on defense)
0:E (0 shock neutral on attack, doesn't degrade shock, and equal to enemy shock on defense up to 2 shifts)


That's correct, Jason. But like bcgames has indicated, it is possible to use foot infantry combined with armored units in an attack without negative effects. But only in an attack where the armored units' shock is nullified by terrain.

So, when armored units can use their offensive shock in an attack, then do not combine no shock units like foot units. But if the armored units cannot employ their shock, then you may add any additional units, regardless of offensive shock value...to the attack.

I hope that makes sense. Let me know if you're still confused, and I'll try again if necessary.

< Message edited by SlickWilhelm -- 4/17/2018 10:02:34 PM >


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RE: Desert War: Combat Tips - 4/19/2018 2:19:28 PM   
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I recently played the Allies against the AI, and I got my rear kicked in the regular way . I wanted to try the same scenario again as the Allies, so spent some time going back to the rulebook basics, and reading the tips in this thread. Having a new perspective on game features and tactics, I tried the same scenario, this time with a simple plan. I am half way through the scenario and I am getting the upper hand on the AI, HaHa, what a blast!

< Message edited by Okayrun3254 -- 4/20/2018 2:32:56 PM >

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RE: Desert War: Combat Tips - 4/23/2018 8:38:02 AM   
russkly

 

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To bring this discussion right down to basics though, if I may try:

Beyond the increased aggregate attack value there is no specific added advantage to combining amour with other non-armour shock or shock neutral units in the attack, correct?

The same result could be achieved by simply adding more armour to an attack rather than by combining armour with non-armour units?

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RE: Desert War: Combat Tips - 4/23/2018 4:06:21 PM   
JasonPratt


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Slick,

Well, yes, I figured that in cases where the terrain eliminated shock value altogether, the eliminated shock value would not then be diluted by combining with shock-negative troops.

However, in some such cases the actual combat values for armor are often (I don't think always?) reduced as well, so it isn't a good idea to send armor in those cases anyway. They aren't useless or worse -- they do still add value, but not as much as adding more non-armor would help the attack.

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(in reply to russkly)
Post #: 29
RE: Desert War: Combat Tips - 4/23/2018 4:17:48 PM   
JasonPratt


Posts: 43
Joined: 5/17/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: russkly

To bring this discussion right down to basics though, if I may try:

Beyond the increased aggregate attack value there is no specific added advantage to combining amour with other non-armour shock or shock neutral units in the attack, correct?



It kind of depends on one's perspective. Adding some shock is better than having no shock.

Suppose you have three infantry battalions, one of the punchiest basic units in the game. And suppose you're putting together an attack with them and one tank company.

If you happened to be starting with the tank company on your attack, and you happened to add the regiments next, you'd be diluting the shock value of the tanks. If you happened to be starting with the three infantry regiments on your attack, and you happened to add the tank company next, you'd be adding a little shock value to your attack. But the end result is the same either way: you'll be adding up the attack values of all four chips, while also shifting the odds in your favor by a small amount.

This could lead to weighing the worth of combining arms on a case-by-case basis. Adding a doofy little conscript infantry platoon to the attack of a tank company might end up chaining the tanks more than the combat value of the platoon is worth.

< Message edited by JasonPratt -- 4/23/2018 4:18:17 PM >


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"Pratt creates a real, hard, dirty world that is somehow still fantastical and full of magic and mystery. Daunting, but worthwhile." -- Vanessa Lee for Front Street

(in reply to russkly)
Post #: 30
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