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The Yangtze River Bridges

 
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The Yangtze River Bridges - 3/18/2018 8:27:06 AM   
el cid again

 

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Now that I have rediscovered the issue, I remember we did this years ago,
in WITP days. Probably because WW2 era maps were not used as a model, one
of the more important geographic features of China was missed in stock (and
for that reason probably all other) variations of AE: there were no bridges
over the lower Yangtze river at all. [Far upstream, above the Gorges, there
is a road bridge at Chunking.]

The first bridge over the lower Yangtze was proposed in 1903 and site surveys
were conducted four times, through 1948, but civil war and invasion prevented
start of construction until 1955. The Great Bridge, with eight highway lanes
on the upper deck and a dual track standard gage railroad on the lower deck,
was completed in 1957. It was deliberately high enough to permit the Queen
Mary and her half sister Queen Mary to pass beneath it. They might have wanted
to go to Changsha on the Dongting Hu (the largest of the Great Lakes of China)
which is upriver from Wuhan.

There were three RR crossings by ferry - at Nanking - at Wuhu and at Wuhan
(from Wuchang on the South bank and Hankow on the North bank). Properly modeled,
Wuhan is a triple city, adjacent ports (all level 3 or 4) separated by rivers.
Wuchang and Hankow have major road and rail connections. But Hangyang has neither,
just ferry service between the adjacent cities. Which is one reason all must be
Level 3 or above ports - code will help resources and supplies move between adjacent
ports. In RHS we have simulated ferries for roads and railroads - these impose
inefficiencies for crossing movement but do not prevent it. Still - the Yangtze was
a major barrier to North-South land movement in China and to a degree still is
(although there is now a freeway bridge East of Nanking and the Army exercises building
temporary bridges very rapidly).

Post #: 1
RE: The Yangtze River Bridges - 3/22/2018 10:30:17 AM   
LargeSlowTarget


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From: Hessen, Germany - now living in France
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quote:

...one of the more important geographic features of China was missed in stock (and for that reason probably all other) variations of AE: there were no bridges over the lower Yangtze river at all...


No, not in all other variations . Bottlenecks mod has no bridges below Chungking.

It also models the Yellow River flood area and the destroyed bridges at Chengchow(Zhengzhou).

Btw, stock and probably all other variations of AE are wrong concerning the major railroad crossing of the east–west Long-Hai and the north–south Ping-Han railways. The crossing was at Chengchow(Zhengzhou) i.e. south of the Yellow River and there should be a direct connection between Chengchow and Kaifeng. However, stock and various map mods show the Long-Hai railway moving north-west from Kaifeng to hex 88/43 to link with the Ping-Han railway north of the Yellow River.

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RE: The Yangtze River Bridges - 4/2/2018 11:35:02 AM   
el cid again

 

Posts: 16424
Joined: 10/10/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget

...one of the more important geographic features of China was missed in stock (and for that reason probably all other) variations of AE: there were no bridges over the lower Yangtze river at all...


No, not in all other variations . Bottlenecks mod has no bridges below Chungking.

It also models the Yellow River flood area and the destroyed bridges at Chengchow(Zhengzhou).

Btw, stock and probably all other variations of AE are wrong concerning the major railroad crossing of the east–west Long-Hai and the north–south Ping-Han railways. The crossing was at Chengchow(Zhengzhou) i.e. south of the Yellow River and there should be a direct connection between Chengchow and Kaifeng. However, stock and various map mods show the Long-Hai railway moving north-west from Kaifeng to hex 88/43 to link with the Ping-Han railway north of the Yellow River.

quote:



Good show.

In RHS we also model the Yellow River flood area. Long study led to the conclusion this area is about half a hex
wide and generally follows the main channel of the river.

This runs from 88/45 (one hex SW of Kaifeng where the dykes were breeched) to Pengpu at 90/50. The effective
swamp is bigger - running East from there to Hwaiyin - surrounding the Hung Tze Hu (Lake) with several swamp
hexes.

There are two significant road bridges that cross the area - 88/45 an 89/47 - and one railroad bridge - 90/50.

Rating the hexes on the "right" (East) bank of the river as swamp makes combat very difficult. One also can
and should cut all the secondary roads (and trails if you have them, except along the railroad). It is a real
barrier - a great line to defend.

I have found a number of railroad problems. Some of the really important lines are (almost) entirely missing
(sometimes there is a stub). And the not quite completed link between the narrow gage line from Indochina
and the Chinese rail net is present - but it had no rails in December 1941 (although the route was actually
completed otherwise). The RHS system permits this line (and others) to complete when they really did, but not
be used before they were completed. I am not sure about the line you mention - it is years since I looked at this
aspect of the map. But thanks for making me aware of it.








< Message edited by el cid again -- 4/2/2018 11:40:25 AM >

(in reply to LargeSlowTarget)
Post #: 3
RE: The Yangtze River Bridges - 4/3/2018 6:54:34 AM   
LargeSlowTarget


Posts: 3858
Joined: 9/23/2000
From: Hessen, Germany - now living in France
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quote:

In RHS we also model the Yellow River flood area. Long study led to the conclusion this area is about half a hex
wide and generally follows the main channel of the river.

This runs from 88/45 (one hex SW of Kaifeng where the dykes were breeched) to Pengpu at 90/50. The effective
swamp is bigger - running East from there to Hwaiyin - surrounding the Hung Tze Hu (Lake) with several swamp
hexes.


Mmh, the dikes have been breached north of Chengchow and to me it appears the flooded area was larger than half a hex wide.

I have found this interesting site about the disaster : http://www.disasterhistory.org/yellow-river-flood-1938-47

And here is my take on it:




On the map you also see that the railroad crossing is south of the river, not north of it as in stock map and others.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by LargeSlowTarget -- 4/3/2018 6:57:53 AM >


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RE: The Yangtze River Bridges - 4/4/2018 12:20:25 PM   
Skyros


Posts: 1563
Joined: 9/29/2000
From: Columbia SC
Status: online
I am curious as to the affect these breaks in the RR system have on Resource, Oil, Fuel and Supply distribution. Does it cause any resource bottle necks?

(in reply to LargeSlowTarget)
Post #: 5
RE: The Yangtze River Bridges - 4/6/2018 4:15:06 PM   
LargeSlowTarget


Posts: 3858
Joined: 9/23/2000
From: Hessen, Germany - now living in France
Status: offline
There are breaks in the RR system and for roads as well, at the place of bridges for RR and secondary/primary roads there are trails which simulate ferries.

Of course this will impact the distribution flow and may slow or even cut it, forcing the use of coastal and riverine shipping - exactly what is intended.

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