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RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably Historically

 
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RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably ... - 3/9/2018 2:45:34 AM   
brian brian

 

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I hate to break this to you, but to play a 'historical' war in China there would have to be Nationalists holding Si-An for the entire war, which is a minor point compared to the next one.

Check out the start lines in China for all the different scenarios - they don't move. Japan did not make any strategic level advances in China until 1944.

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Post #: 91
RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably ... - 3/9/2018 4:03:02 AM   
rkr1958


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quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian

I hate to break this to you, but to play a 'historical' war in China there would have to be Nationalists holding Si-An for the entire war, which is a minor point compared to the next one.

Check out the start lines in China for all the different scenarios - they don't move. Japan did not make any strategic level advances in China until 1944.
Understand. If I can accomplish close to what Japan achieved in the Pacific and Burma/India then I'll consider that a success assuming that they hold out to mid '45 or beyond. If I achieve that then with respect to China, I'll just let the chips fall where they may.

I'm limiting the scripting in this mod to the geo-political. In effect, once those decision are made by the politicians or dictators in charge, it's my job as the "Joint Chiefs of Staff" to execute those "decisions" as best as possible. What that means, for me, is that I play it within MWiF straight up. That is, I try to execute within the framework of MWiF using (I hope) sound strategy and tactics that one (certainly me until burned) would use against another player. Also, while certain decisions/events above the JCS's are (hopefully) historical, the specific timing and sequencing won't be.

I fully understand that this play through, or even many play through, of this mod aren’t likely to produce specific critical battles like Stalingrad, Midway, Kursk, Battle of the Bulge, etc …. my hope is not for this, I have all these on DVD, my hope is that it will produce similar battles that, in the end, produce an allied victory similar to the actual. Though, maybe on a longer or even shorter timescale.

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RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably ... - 3/9/2018 4:05:44 AM   
rkr1958


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What I do not want to happen in China is to have Japan so fully engaged that they're not able to pull out the necessary forces when it's time to go to war with the western allies to accomplish what they did in early 1942.

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RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably ... - 3/9/2018 1:23:27 PM   
rkr1958


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HM 2018-02. Setup. Lend Lease Air. Scrapped Units.




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RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably ... - 3/9/2018 1:25:37 PM   
rkr1958


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HM 2018-02. US Entry Pools. Post Reserves (CW/France DOW Germany).

Poor draws.




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RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably ... - 3/9/2018 1:27:10 PM   
rkr1958


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HM 2018-02. Setup. Germany's Air Draws.

To match the US poor chit draws, Germany (again) draw on LND's is sub par.




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RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably ... - 3/9/2018 2:24:26 PM   
rkr1958


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HM. 2018-02. The Invasion of Poland. WW-2 Officially Begins.

1. Luftwaffe ground strikes against Lodz and Warsaw were extremely effective resulting in flipping of four Polish units (3 inf corps and HQ-I). For those statisticians out there, the two surprise strikes (two planes per strike) had a total expected flip value of 3.2 units. By flipping all four they exceeded expected performance by 0.8 units.

2. The first impulse sees the Wehrmacht executing three pincers (two inner and outer) movements. The two inner pincers are designed to capture Pozan and eliminate Polish resistance west of Lodz. The outer pincer is designed to isolate Warsaw and Lodz by eliminating Polish resistance north and east of Warsaw and by isolating Krakow and it's defenders.

3. The three pincer movements produce three automatic land combats. By making use of Polish rail/roads the Wehrmacht is able to produce a breakthrough on the Blitz attack against the Polish cavalry defending in the woods, push on with 47th (XLVII) armor, overrun, and eliminate (due to surprise) the Polish fighter (and pilot) based northeast of the breakthrough.

4. With the Polish government and military reeling from the devastating air and land attacks by the German military, the Red Army pushes over 1/2 million troops across the frontier and into Eastern Poland, easily brushing aside the 20 battalions of the Polish Border Protection Corps opposing them, easily capture Lvov, Brest-Litovsk and Vilna, and (thus) fulfilling their secret part of the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact for the partition of Poland.

5. Because of the ease and swiftness by which the Red Army conquered (uh, liberated) Eastern Poland, the Soviet 2nd Mech army is ordered to continue on into the Lithuania, which results in a bloodless capitulation by the Baltic States to the Soviet Union. STAVKA had originally estimated that it wouldn't be until Spring of 1940 before the Soviets could move into the Baltic States.

6. Given the ease and swiftness of the Red Army victory (uh, liberation) of Eastern Poland and the Baltic States, Premier Stalin is flushed with victory and has order STAVKA to come up with a plan for the Red Army to move as soon as possible against Finland.

7. US reaction to the Soviet invasions and conquests were mixed. They didn't react to the invasion of Poland, but pushing into the Baltic States was too much. Only one chit from the German/Italy entry pool was removed.




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RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably ... - 3/9/2018 3:59:08 PM   
rkr1958


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Selected HM Rules of Engagement Recap.
1. CL’s will be used to represent unattached destroyer and destroyer escort squadrons.
2. Unless subject to surface raiders, only CL’s will be used to escort CP’s in the 0-box or for ASW patrols in higher boxes.
3. CA’s, and CL’s too, will/can be used to provide ASW for capital ships and transports on patrol or as part of a naval task force.
4. While Italy is neutral, in order to both protect vital shipping and to minimize the attractiveness of a surprise attack by Italian forces on said shipping, the following rule of engagement will be strictly followed.
a) CW and French naval and air units will only operate in the 0-box of sea areas reachable by any Italian unit and not containing any German units.
b) All sea areas containing allied CP's and reachable by any Italian unit capable of disrupting said CP's must have ASW (i.e., CL) patrols a the minimum rate of 1 RN CL per 2 CW CP's (rounded down) and 1 French CL per 2 French CP's (round down) up to a maximum of 3 RN and 3 French CL's. These numbers are minimum, which either the CW or French are free to exceed if they so wish.
c) CW and French transports in sea areas reachable by any Italian unit must be escorted by ships of their respective nationality at the minimum rate of 2 CA's/CL's and 2 BB's/CV's/CVL's. Only CV's and CVL's with planes qualify for this duty.

< Message edited by rkr1958 -- 3/9/2018 4:00:50 PM >


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RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably ... - 3/9/2018 4:10:47 PM   
rkr1958


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HM 2018-02. Atlantic & Med ASW Patrols.

The RN and Marine Nationale are directed under the applicable rules of engagements to sent out a total of 23 CL's to cover the 65 CP's operating in the Atlantic and Mediterranean and under (sole) direct threat to a possible Italian surprise attack. The Royal Navy's contribution to these ASW patrols is 21 of 35 (or 60%) of their at-start CL's, 5 or so which were setup in the Asiatic command and not available for Atlantic or Med duty this turn. Also, another 6 are so are required for North Sea escort of transports carrying the BEF of for carrier task force patrols in the 3 and 4-boxes, respectively.




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RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably ... - 3/9/2018 4:25:20 PM   
rkr1958


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HM 2018-02. ASW/U-boat Battle in the Faeores Gap. Allied #7 (1. Sep/Oct 1939)

I must say that, so far, I really like the feel of using CL's (only) to model detached DD squadrons used for ASW. In this example from impulse #7, German u-boats have sortied into the Faeroes Gap to attack a seemingly insignificant number of CP's (originally 1). However, with no allied CP's operating in the North Sea, then if successful in clearing the Faeores Gap of allied CP's, then this puts supply of the RN Home Fleet at Scapa Flow in jeopardy. With all allied CP's committed, this would mean that the RN would need to keep a transport at sea in the North Sea to supply Scapa Flow.

During this impulse the CW moved, or attempted to move, 5 CP's Torshaven through the Faeroes Gap and into the North Atlantic and East Coast. German u-boats successfully intercept 1 of these five forcing it to stop in the 0-box. Prior to this impulse the RN had deploy no ASW to this area (only 1 CP). However, to protect supply and, now 2 CP's, the RN flew Harrow at max range (9-hexes) to the 0-box and moved in 1 of it's three remaining DD squadrons (i.e., CL's) not out on patrol to 0-box to escort the convoy. The remaining 2 DD squadrons (i.e., CL's) were put out in the 4-box on ASW patrol (allowed since the presence of German units negate the restriction of only being able to operate in the 0-box for those sea areas in range of any Italian unit).

From a game perspective, the RN had several CA's available and could have flooded the sea area if they'd wished. However, representing ASW against sub's (u-boats in this case) as CL's just produced, for me, a much better feel and more importantly, a way to play with CLIF's without tilting the Battle of the Atlantic hopeless in favor of the allies (I hope).




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RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably ... - 3/9/2018 6:33:10 PM   
rkr1958


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HM 2018-02. Turn 1. Sep/Oct 1939. Recap.

Europe
1. Germany and the USSR invade Poland. (Details provided in post 97).
2. Western Allies declare war, no chit lost.
3. Then CW moves the 4th infantry division from Plymouth to Arabian Sea for anti-partisan defense in Bombay. (That is, I once lost Bombay to a partisan and it took a major campaign to dig it out. Afterwards, I vowed never again to leave Bombay ungarrisoned). Note that the CW positioned an infantry corps (5-4) during setup in the hex between Singapore and a Malaysian RP for anti-partisan defense. (Again, I once lost Singapore to partisans early on, costing me a couple of ships and vowed never to allow that again)
4. The RN ships a Canadian Terr to Cape St. Vincent for deployment to Gibraltar, which is currently ungarrisoned. Note that the CW positioned a 2-5 eng division in Malta during setup. Having Gibraltar and Malta garrisoned early into the first turn is one of my rules of engagement and, is also, a guideline I follow when playing another human.
5. Hoping to fight this war not in the trenches of Belgium or France, but in the skies over Germany, on distance shores or in the seas, Britain and France provide all the help they can short of sending troops to Poland, which they won’t do. RAF and French bombers hit German industry on three different raids but manage only to reduce production by 1 PP. Two sub groups, one RN and one French, make their way into the Baltic and attack the German shipping, which is moving the high quality iron ore from Sweden to Germany. However, the subs are unable to located the unescorted merchant ships.
6. The RN and French move out their ASW escorts to protect their shipping in the Atlantic and Med threaten by a neutral Italy.
7. The RN puts two strong and heavily escorted task forces into the North Sea. The first, which is in the 3-box, is a transport task force carrying the BEF (Lord Gort, his HQ, mech and mot corps). The second, in the 4-box, is a carrier strike force centered around the carriers Ark Royal and Furious. Both task forces are escorted by numerous battleships, heavy and light cruisers (and destroyers).
8. The weather on the next axis impulse (#3) remains fine across the globe. Though the allied subs failed to find, Germany decides to shut the door on allied access to the Baltic by invading Denmark. The USA reacts to this aggression and another chit is added to the German/Italy entry pool. To protect their unescorted convoys, Germany files a NAV3 to the 3-box and maintains an Hs123 in position to respond to the 0-box if necessary. It is, while Germany declined to initiate naval combat, the allies don’t. The result is that since this allied initiated combat takes place before land movement the Germans by flying their NAV into the Baltic have allowed the allied sub groups to escape. Even so, both sub groups commit to combat but get the worse of it. The British sub group is damaged and aborted and the French sub group is aborted. Though, doomed to die the German’s move allow these two groups to flee and fight another day.
9. German easily overruns Denmark with the 3 divisions that they had stationed on their common border. The overrun manages to capture Copenhagen and all hexes adjacent to North Sea, locking out any chance that the allies could disembark into Denmark. The only way now that allied ground troops could land directly in Denmark would be through amphibious invasion. With no allied divisions on the coast, amphibious invasion is not possible.
10. German easily finishes off Poland and begins their transfer of forces from Poland to the West.
11. German u-boats sortie into the Faeroes Gap and sink two convoys there, potentially disrupting CW supply to Scapa Flow.

Asia

1. Japanese aircraft are unable to hit the broadside of a barn but through maneuver and counter-maneuver the IJA manage to capture the open cities of Chengchow and Tungkwan. Reaction from the USA is somewhat negative with 1 chit being moved from the Japanese entry to the tension pool.
2. The situation in China, along will all other active theaters will be presented later, but needless to say that the garrison requirement of having to keep an HQ-I and 7 other ground units in Manchuria and China to counter the threat from Zhukov's HQ-A and 7 Soviet ground units is impacting Japan’s military operations in China.




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< Message edited by rkr1958 -- 3/9/2018 6:34:24 PM >


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RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably ... - 3/9/2018 6:34:12 PM   
rkr1958


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HM 2018-02. Turn 1. Sep/Oct 1939. Commander's Combat Logs.

Raw logs kept by the senior commanders on scene and complete with grammatical errors and misspellings.




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< Message edited by rkr1958 -- 3/9/2018 6:42:04 PM >


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RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably ... - 3/9/2018 6:44:02 PM   
rkr1958


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HM 2018-02. Turn 1. Nov/Dec 1939. Germany and Poland.




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RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably ... - 3/9/2018 6:44:50 PM   
rkr1958


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HM 2018-02. Turn 1. Nov/Dec 1939. USSR and Finland.

Soviet troops massing on the border with Finland.




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RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably ... - 3/9/2018 7:04:41 PM   
rkr1958


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HM 2018-02. Turn 1. Nov/Dec 1939. The Western Front.

Southern France.

1. Georges and his HQ-I are in southern France, as not part of their defense against Italy but to organize the transfer of a quality 6-4 corps from Algeria and establishment of garrison in Oran and Algeris. That is, the French transport starting in Oran moved the 6-4 corps to Toulon on the first French impulse. Georges then reorganized that transport along with 2 French battleships moved directly with the transport from Oran to Toulon. Then, in the next French impulse, the transport moved directly from Toulon back to Oran carrying a garrison to augment the 3-3 French corops already in Algeria. Through rail moves the French achieved their required garrison of Oran and Algiers.

2. The minimum French garrison in the south will be the French southern defense army consisting of 3 corps (4-3 in Toulon, 5-4 mountain in the alps and the 4-3 Lyons MIL). Georges and the remaining excess units will be moved north from the defense against the Germans.

Northern France.

1. Note the save arrival of Gort and the British BEF.




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RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably ... - 3/9/2018 7:05:27 PM   
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HM 2018-02. Turn 1. Nov/Dec 1939. Western Med and North Africa.





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RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably ... - 3/9/2018 7:06:04 PM   
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HM 2018-02. Turn 1. Nov/Dec 1939. Eastern Med and Libya/Egypt.




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RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably ... - 3/9/2018 7:06:56 PM   
rkr1958


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HM 2018-02. Turn 1. Nov/Dec 1939. North and Central China.




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RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably ... - 3/9/2018 7:07:26 PM   
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HM 2018-02. Turn 1. Nov/Dec 1939. Central and Southern China.




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RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably ... - 3/9/2018 7:08:25 PM   
rkr1958


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HM 2018-02. Turn 1. Nov/Dec 1939. Destroyed and Repair Pools.




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RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably ... - 3/9/2018 7:10:00 PM   
rkr1958


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HM 2018-02. Turn 1. Nov/Dec 1939. US Entry.

The US selected option 9, "Resources to China". A tension roll of 7 means no chit was moved.






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RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably ... - 3/9/2018 7:13:58 PM   
rkr1958


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HM 2018-02. Turn 1. Nov/Dec 1939. Convoy Loss Summary (to date).




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RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably ... - 3/9/2018 7:14:29 PM   
rkr1958


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HM 2018-02. Turn 1. Nov/Dec 1939. Economy Summary.




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RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably ... - 3/9/2018 8:05:07 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

HM 2018-02. Turn 1. Nov/Dec 1939. US Entry.

The US selected option 9, "Resources to China". A tension roll of 7 means no chit was moved.





warspite1

Sorry if I've missed it, but are you going to choose the historical entries as close to real life - or allow flexibility?


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RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably ... - 3/9/2018 8:21:10 PM   
rkr1958


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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1
Sorry if I've missed it, but are you going to choose the historical entries as close to real life - or allow flexibility?
With the exception of Norway I will attempt to get the geo-political events right (e.g, Winter War, Italy's DOW on Greece, Japan's expansion in the Pacific/Dutch East Indies/Burma) but not force them on the dates when the occurred or even in the order they occurred. In effect, once the geo/political decision are made by the "politicians or dictators in charge", it's my job as the "Joint Chiefs of Staff" to execute those "decisions" to the best of my ability. What this means, for me, is that I play it within MWiF straight up. That is, I try to execute within the framework of MWiF using (I hope) sound strategy and tactics which I would use against another player. Also, while certain decisions/events above the JCS's are (hopefully) historical, the specific timing and sequencing won't be.

I fully understand that this play through of this mod isn't likely to produce the critical battles like Stalingrad, Midway, Kursk, Battle of the Bulge that shaped/changed the war, but my hope is that this play will produce similar battles, which in the end, will produce an allied victory on a macro scale similar to what historically happened.





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RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably ... - 3/9/2018 8:39:44 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1
Sorry if I've missed it, but are you going to choose the historical entries as close to real life - or allow flexibility?
With the exception of Norway I will attempt to get the geo-political events right (e.g, Winter War, Italy's DOW on Greece, Japan's expansion in the Pacific/Dutch East Indies/Burma) but not force them on the dates when the occurred or even in the order they occurred. In effect, once the geo/political decision are made by the "politicians or dictators in charge", it's my job as the "Joint Chiefs of Staff" to execute those "decisions" to the best of my ability. What this means, for me, is that I play it within MWiF straight up. That is, I try to execute within the framework of MWiF using (I hope) sound strategy and tactics which I would use against another player. Also, while certain decisions/events above the JCS's are (hopefully) historical, the specific timing and sequencing won't be.

I fully understand that this play through of this mod isn't likely to produce the critical battles like Stalingrad, Midway, Kursk, Battle of the Bulge that shaped/changed the war, but my hope is that this play will produce similar battles, which in the end, will produce an allied victory on a macro scale similar to what historically happened.

warspite1

Italy and Ochi day! Good Luck with that Mr Chief of Staff I'm really looking forward to that and Operation E....


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RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably ... - 3/9/2018 9:46:26 PM   
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Given three corps, including the white print MTN, on the Italian border, I would defend right on the border with Italy. I realize that in the current scenario the Italians won't attack, but if I were playing a normal game and saw that French set up, I would declare war the next impulse as Italy, and get through the mountains, stretching the French line. The French MTN corps is critical; it defends in the northern hex. The Italians can put it out of supply by shoving their own MTN corps over the alpine hexside, but the French MTN really doesn't care too much; even if the Italians flip it, it still defends with a strength of nine. Any other unit the French are willing to spend down there will have a strength of two, and be killed, opening the flood gates. This can happen to the MTN unit, if the Italians get lucky; if they don't get lucky, which is more probable, they have gotten into the war in an unfavorable position.

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RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably ... - 3/9/2018 10:09:47 PM   
rkr1958


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Courtenay

Given three corps, including the white print MTN, on the Italian border, I would defend right on the border with Italy. I realize that in the current scenario the Italians won't attack, but if I were playing a normal game and saw that French set up, I would declare war the next impulse as Italy, and get through the mountains, stretching the French line. The French MTN corps is critical; it defends in the northern hex. The Italians can put it out of supply by shoving their own MTN corps over the alpine hexside, but the French MTN really doesn't care too much; even if the Italians flip it, it still defends with a strength of nine. Any other unit the French are willing to spend down there will have a strength of two, and be killed, opening the flood gates. This can happen to the MTN unit, if the Italians get lucky; if they don't get lucky, which is more probable, they have gotten into the war in an unfavorable position.
Oh ... well maybe then I need to keep four corps down there and put a unit in Nice. Whould that shore up the defenses enough for you not to invade as Italy?


< Message edited by rkr1958 -- 3/9/2018 10:10:22 PM >


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RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably ... - 3/10/2018 4:49:23 AM   
rkr1958


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Turn 2. Nov/Dec 1939. Recap.

1. New Trade Deal. The CW sends 4 non-oil to France. Specifically, 2 RP's from India and 2 RP's from Malaya are sent. This trade deal results in 2 idle CW factories, 4 idle CP's in CSV and 1 idle CP in BoB. All this will be fixed, assuming no interference from German u-boats, during the turn.

2. New Trade Deal. The US sends the Philippine RP to China. The question is will Japan close the Burma Road and risk a chit?

3. Initiative. The axis win and elect to move second.

4. Allies fix their convoy routes and get things running smoothly (see next post).

5. Japan does indeed close the Burma Road and this results in a chit being added to the US entry pool.

6. Germany sends 2 u-boats to the Faeoes Gap but fail to find the CW convoy.

7. Japanese bombers continue their dismal performance in China. However, the IJA is able to kill off a Natcom garrison in the mountains in the north.

8. Germany sends out two surface raiders that slip past the RN and French naval blockade in the North Sea. The raiders link up with the German u-boats operating there but are still unable to find the CW convoy.

9. Both raiders and 1 u-boat moved down to the 2-box and remain in the area at the end of turn.

10. Though neutral the USA is busy at the end of turn. They select three options: (13) "Embargo on strategic materials", (15) "Resources to western allies", and (16) "gift of destroyers to the CW.". All of this only results in 1 chit (from the German/Italy entry pool) being moved to the tension pool.

11. Forgot to add, RAF and French bombers manage to knock 2 PP's off of German Production. "Bomber" Harris is ecstatic. On the flip side, a German strategic raid on Lyons nets nothing.




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RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably ... - 3/10/2018 4:52:09 AM   
rkr1958


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Turn 2. Nov/Dec 1939. Allied Convoy Route and Production Adjustments.




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